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Waxes and Polishes, Part III
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It's just so crappy that it's raining now. Where is the sun?!?!
"The polymer-based waxes tend to last longer, yet do not seem to give the same depth of shine, as do the Carnauba waxes. As a general rule, depth of shine and longevity are opposite ends of the same scale. Polymer waxes are also usually less sensitive to excess car wash. They do seem to be somewhat more hydroscopic (absorb water and become cloudy) than the organic waxes. If you are using a polymer based wax on a German paint and have hazing or clouding of the wax, about the only thing that will work is to strip the polymer wax and rewax with a Carnauba based wax. German paints hate polymer-based waxes. I have spoken to paint chemists, the Glazurit people, Porsche, BMW and M/B people and to date have not gotten a viable reason for this. I have gotten a lot of mumbling and shuffling of feet, but no hard and fast answers. The American and Japanese paints can tolerate polymer waxes. The German paints just don't seem to react well with most of these products. There are also highly advertised Teflon based products on the market. It is my understanding that it requires a 600 plus degree environment to bond Teflon to your paint. So, unless you are applying it with a flamethrower, you may not be getting all you paid for. (In the same vein, just be glad you are not getting all the government you are paying for). The polymer-based products will also tend to build up with several applications and this buildup may turn off color over time. The solution to this problem is to strip everything off and start again."
I just bought my MB two weeks ago, and while the dealer-applied wax should hold me for a few weeks, I'm trying to decide how I'll care for it from then on. From this board I find many very happy Zaino users . . . so I was just looking to hear any personal observations from those with German cars to validate or shoot down the "german paint comment" above.
Jeff
When I saw your comment about the MB paint, I e-mailed Sal Zaino. This is what he said-
"Most polymer based wax systems are not optically perfect and use abrasives. The polymers they use also tend to yellow. The combination of the polymer and abrasives they use can lead to clouding especially on German paints.... Zaino is a synthetic based system that is 99.9% optically
clear, will never yellow and contains no abrasives or oils. It will never, ever cloud any paint including the German paint systems."
I would suggest that you e-mail Sal- sal@zainobros.com- and discuss it with him! A few months ago, I ZAINOED my cousin's BLACK, 2-seater, BMW convertible. It came out beautiful! She couldn't believe it when she saw it! It still looks great. No clouding.
Hope this helps you.
fastdriver
DON'T use a sponge because it can scratch! Use a 100%, white, made in the USA cotton towel- Canon, Fieldcrest etc. I use the ZAINO car wash when I do it myself in the warmer weather!
fastdriver
Jeff
If you'd like to see some pics of what that car looked like after I Z'd it, I'd be more then happy to e-mail some to you. Of course, this wouldn't answer your long term questions, but my cousin says the car still looks great! I haven't seen it since I did it because she lives about an hour from me, but I trust her judgment.
Let me know.
fastdriver
OK! I'll TRY tomorrow or Monday and see what happens.
fastdriver
I just put the pics in my Geocities directory. Click on one link and you get the picture. Hit the back button on your browser to go back to the directory for the next pic. If you hit parent directory, it takes you to the soap opera story of my 99 300M as well as some pics of my previous cars- some of which I STILL owned!
Hope this works!
http://www.geocities.com/MotorCity/Flats/7501/bmw_img
fastdriver
(1) The clay stuff really works. It takes a lot of effort to clean a 9-year-old car thoroughly, then clay it thoroughly, but at the end of this process, it looks remarkably good. It even got rid of some stuff I was never able to get rid of before: some tiny dots of white stuff on the passenger side door. (It looked like some sort of paint that settled out from a fine mist from a sprayer. Not sure how or when that got on there, but it was several years ago.)
(2) Zaino definitely works too. I have no idea whether it works better than wax, but, after all that effort to get the car clean for it, putting on the Zaino Z1 and Z5 (I have not gotten any further yet) was easy. I understand applying wax requires yet another "elbow grease" pass.
(3) Zaino is a bit more expensive. If you just get the Z1 and Z2 -- more or less the equivalent of wax -- you obviously pay more than you would for plain old wax. (The Z1 and Z2 are $9 and $13 and shipping is $6, so your "base cost", as it were, is $28.) Add Z5 for $17 and you are up to $45, throw in Z6 and Z7 like I did ($8 and $10) and get the clay from them too (Z18, $17) and you are up to 80 bucks.
So, if you do not mind the effort involved in waxing, you can save some cash. For me, though, the ease of applying the Zaino stuff makes all the difference. It all comes down to three things (for me): can I afford it at all, does it work, and how hard is it to use. Waxes pass the first two tests but not the third. :-)
Now I have to use it on the new car. The old one was the practice run!
I clayed my Tacoma when it was brand new and that seemed like more effort even with lots of lubricant. Then I have clayed the truck each spring to get rid of all the winter leftovers and it seems to get easier each time. Maybe it is harder the first time to get rid of all the contaminants...
My two cents,
Terry
Here is a deal with the lubricant. Than more lubricant you put then less friction there are. I found that those hard to get out contaminants removed better with less lubricant. The best that I found working for me is when yellow clay starts to migrate from bar to the paint. After that the clay residue can be removed with the same clay and a little bit more lubricant. Unfortunately even that maximum action did not remove 100% of bad things from my Jeep, but it did remove half of them for sure. Therefore, for everyone with new vehicles out there - do not wait, treat them as soon as possible.
Everyone who I asked about claying recommended to use a lot of lubricant, so maybe my methodic is wrong. But, I found it to work best for me.
I just put another coat of Zaino. I think I am getting addicted. There was rain last night, there is going to be rain this night. The hood looks like a mirror now. Now I can shave staying next to it
Sorry, Sal!!!
Got a question for anyone who knows about a "squeegee" called "FirstPass". Anyone ever used it? It's similar to the California Water Blade. I've never used any of these types of tools to dry my car, but I went to the local car show this past weekend. A guy there had a booth set up demonstrating the "FirstPAss". I'm not one to go for "gimicks", but this looked to be a sturdy piece made of quality materials. I bit and bought two for $25. I know of the risks of getting dirt trapped underneath of these and the possibility of scratches. I plan on washing it thoroughly, however. It takes me longer to dry my car than to wash it and am looking for an effective way to cut this time.
It's going to be 50 degrees and sunny in OH today and I'll have my first chance to Zaino my GP since I bought it 8 weeks ago. Plus, I have the day off. I'll clay it, too (just noticed I'm out of Z6, though). I'll z1/z2 after the clay.
Wish I had a digital camera that I could show before and after pictures.
You SHOULD have waited before buying ANYTHING to get the water off your car because once you apply the ZAINO, the water FLIES off! When I wash my car, I just drive a few miles to get the water out of the mirrors and off the surfaces and then pull into a parking lot and wipe what LITTLE water is left off the car. On my 99 300M, the only real place the water is left in on the back side of the trunk!
In two minutes, the car looks like it does in the pics that I took on Valentine's Day at my website!
You'll see what I mean once you get all the Z's applied. You won't need any blades- just a 100% white, cotton towel, made in the USA!! You would have been better off spending that $25.00 on towels! LOL... Maybe you can sell the blades to some friends who don't use ZAINO! ;-))
Going to be nice in CT this week too. Supposed to be near 50 on Thursday. Today looks nice too. Want to apply some Z-2 even though it really doesn't need it. Takes me less then 45 minutes to apply and wipe off!
THIS time I have the digital camera to take some before and after pics of the car. It's dirty now because I've been driving it in the bad weather that we had. Not as dirty as it was when I washed it the weekend before Valentine's Day. However, I know the Z shine in under that dirt. I'll see if I can get it dirtier today and then go to the hand car wash and post the before and after pics without applying ANY Z products. Last applied Z-2 on 1/3- I think.
Good luck.
fastdriver
PS WHO wants to have a supply of Ibuprofen handy just to polish the car????? Use the Z!
In addition, I live in a relatively new neighborhood. Lot's of housing still going up and it's very dusty. If I drove around to get my car semi-dry, I'm fearful I'd end up with the dusty water spots that I so dread.
It's now hit 55 degrees, so I'm off to dawn and clay right now. Should take about an hour. I'll try out the "FirstPAss" and let you know how that works. Then on to Z1/Z2. I should have a complete detail done (dawn wash, clay, dawn wash, dry, Z1/Z2, Zaino leather conditioner, MEguiars endurance tire treatment, engine detail), remove Z1/Z2)in about 3 hours.
55!!!!! Not THAT warm here in CT-yet! ;-)) I can see your point about the new construction and the dust. HOWEVER, unless it's the water here in CT, I don't get waterspots on the car! The ZAINO takes care of that. If my car gets caught in a rainstorm and there is no way to wipe it off, I just put it in the garage. The next morning, most of the water has dried with NO spots!!
Just build up the coats of the Z-2/Z-5 and the Z-6 and you won't have to worry about spots again!
Good luck.
fastdriver
I have read in this forum how multiple coats of Z2 and/or Z5 brings about a better shine and wet look. But should you be applying Z1 everytime you add a coat of Z2 or Z5 or do you use Z1 only before the first coat of Z2 or Z5?
I was under impression that Zaino can be removed with Dawn... Is it so?
Glad you finally saw the "shine"!! LOL....
marcus216-
NO! You apply Z-1 about once every six months! You will get directions with your order. Follow the tips too about applying the ZAINO back and forth on the top surfaces and up and down on the side surfaces. You will NOT be disappointed! I just washed my car today and finally had the digital camera to show you the BEFORE and AFTER pics with NO ZAINO applied today. The last time I put on the Z-2 was 1/3/00. On 2/14, I applied just a quick coat of Z-6. I'll post the pics in a few minutes if you're interested in looking at them from today.
Sergeich-
DAWN alone will NOT remove the ZAINO. I believe you have to use either the alcohol or the clay and then DAWN. Someone correct me if I'm wrong.
Let me go upload the car wash pics from today.
fastdriver
HAD to go and read all my Chrysler topics and make
a few comments.
The pictures are posted "backwards" because when I
named them, I forgot they would be listed in
alphabetical order! The five dirty ones are at the
bottom and the 7 clean ones are at the top of the
directory. The clean ones were taken right after I
left the car wash and went down the street to the
parking lot at Frank's Nursery. I figured if I
waited until I got home to take the pics, the car
might be dirty because the roads are not all dry
yet. Driving home was something to see as I TRIED
to avoid the wet parts of the road! Looked like I
just left the bar- zigging and zagging! LOL......
No ZAINO was applied today. Car was just washed.
http://www.geocities.com/MotorCity/Flats/7501/feb_21/ Enjoy.
fastdriver
What really amazes me about your shine, is that I cannot only see the clouds in your hood, but I can see the COLOR of the clouds!
Amazing! But - What's all that white stuff on the ground? LOL
WHITE stuff.......ground.......sure it wasn't the reflection of my hair?? LOL.......
fastdriver
1. Dawn wash--30 minutes
2. Clay--"blue Clay Magic", half a capful of Z7 wash mixed with a spray bottle full of water as lubricant, took 30 minutes (a note about clay--I have yet to find any of the nasty "bugaboos" on my car's finishes. Of course, I clayed my cars when they were all relatively new. I did find it helpful for safely removing some tape residue left on my car from the protective sheets used when shipping new cars. The most beneficial use for clay that I've experienced is to make the finish smooth in preparation for wax. It also affords you the opportunity to inspect your finish very closely.)
3. Z7 wash--20 minutes
4. Dry--20 minutes (a note about "first pass or california water blade" squeegees...great for windows and all horizontal surfaces, not so good with vertical surfaces and places where there are complex curves on the car. I'ts imperative to make certain that your finish is totally free from all dirt and grit so not to scratch your finish. It does cut down on drying time.)
5. Z1--20 minutes (including "z-ing" the wheel wells and wheels)
6. Z2 (or Z5)--20 minutes. I let the Z1/Z2 dry for about an hour while I detailed the interior and engine compartment) Sum time (including waiting), 80 minutes.
7. Wipe down--15 minutes
8. Tire dressing--10 minutes (using meguiars endurance).
Total full detail time, about 4 hours. The initial detail (again, I'm anal about getting everything perfect) takes longer than regular wash/wax regimen. From now on, I'll only wash once. No need to clay again (except for any problem areas that arise). Depending on weather/humidity, I won't have to wait as long for "Z" to dry (Z1/Z2 together take longer to dry than just applying Z2 or Z5 alone). If you don't detail the tires (do wax the wheel wells as well as the wheels) or the interior, I would say that I could wash, dry, and Z2 (or Z5) in about an hour.
BTW--I didn't get stiff shoulders from claying and Z-ing in the same day. My back is little stiff from stooping so much, but that's more a function of my 40+ year body than anything else.
Voila--I've got the Zaino shine on my Grand Prix and it's awsome...looks better than when I drove it off the dealer's lot. My car's a happy camper.
As an aside, after doing Z-ing my wifes toyota avalon, I have to say that after claying and closely inspecting my car's finish, GM in doing a great job with their paint and it's application. It's the equal (and perhaps better) than any paint application I've seen in mainstream cars. Of course, Zaino had something to do with it. It's supposed to get close to 60 degrees in southern OH this weekend. I'll put another coat of Z2 on then and increase the shine even more. I need to get some more Z6, though.
Congratulations! I agree that the INITIAL job of washing, claying, washing, Z-1/Z-2or5/Z-6 does take some time. The remainder of the applications will be a cinch. It takes me about 45 minutes or so to put the Z-2 on and wipe it off on the 300M. No sore arms, shoulders, back etc. Once you get to that wet-look shine stage, you'll want to Z it whenever you have some spare time whether you think it needs it or not because you want it to ALWAYS look that good. Actually, when the nice weather is here, I think I NEED a ZA group- ZAINO anonymous!! LOL....
One major advantage to the Z is that nothing seems to stick to it. If something does get on the finish, it either washes right off or comes off with the Z-6. I have not had to use tar remover or WD-40 to get any tar off my car because there has never been any, unlike my other cars that were pre-ZAINO. Plus, if it rains and I can't clean the car and put it in the garage wet, the next morning when most of it is dry- there are NO water spots! I hate those.
When I first heard about ZAINO after finding this topic in 1998 and was reading all the rave reviews about it, I thought- HOW could my Candy Apple Red 300M shine MORE then it does now with all the Meguiars products that I use. After ordering it, I found out for myself. I have to tell you that I was VERY skeptical about ZAINO because I thought my car looked awesome with the Meguiars. BTW, I have never clayed the 300.
I guess the thing that made me leery was that all the accolades here sounded like an "internet infomercial"!! Then I bought it and now I sound like an infomercial!! The only difference is that I think my pics show the results! I think it's time for Sal to change those pictures on his website and put up some new ones- hint, hint!! LOL..
As soon as your wife gets you the digital camera for your birthday, will you post some pics? BTW- get the SONY Digital Mavica FD 73 model- uses regular PC floppy disks that saves the pics in JPEG form and works on the MAC or PC. Also has a 10X ZOOM! No wires to attach. Take out the floppy, put it in the computer and you're done!
fastdriver
As far as Z on cars, I agree. The initial steps take some time. After that, the wash/wax time is very quick and easy. It's much easier to wash the car because everything (including bird droppings and tar) rinse right off. Nothing sticks to a Zainod car.
Your pictures are a good testimonial. I'm sure you'll agrre, that even pictures don't do the shine justice.
I say this because I'm parking away from any trees, light posts, power lines, etc... In other words, nowhere where birds could perch and do their doo. Yet my car is the only one the birds seem to poop on. It must be scaring them!
I was removing Zaino in order to clay my truck. I used just Dawn on a sponge. If let's say, it did not remove Zaino. Could It be that claying after that was not as efficient as it would if Zaino was removed?
My neighbor has since given me a mechanic's wheeled seat - it works great and has a tray for tools, polish etc, and no more sore back! I actually spend more time on the sides now since it is effortless.
Then it happened......
A couple hours later, as I loaded up the nice clean van with wife and kids, I noticed I had been ambushed by a group of birds that must have had a lot of fiber in their diet. I was not parked under any powerlines or trees, so it may have been the 'startled' effect fastdriver described. Having no Z6, I ran out and got some Meguiar's Quick Detailer to get the worst off. Did an OK job on the sides, haven't had a chance to go after the roof yet.
The important thing is is that the Zaino (4 layers of Z2 from 10/1 to the end of Nov '99) seems to be holding up well to day-to-day abuse.
Where the heck can I purchase these towels? Is there anywhere on-line to get them?
I found extra-large towels meeting those requirements at BJ's Wholesale Club for $3.99 each. Seemed a little too good to be true, but they've performed well so far, with no swirls or scratches.
nascar: Z1/Z2 will not hurt your rubber parts. It won't do much for them, shine wise, but then again, you don't want to shine them. The point is that you don't have to worry about being perfect when you lay down a coat of Z2. The residue left on those rubber parts will wipe off easily.
dharmabum: I'm not sure where you got the idea that Zaino isn't a polymer. IT IS A POLYMER! In fact, it is the best, clearest, and longest lasting of the polymer products on the market.
First, get your surface as clean as your can. This is important for the best results with any type of paint protectant, not just Zaino. Use Dawn or any other liquid hand dishwashing soap (not dishwasher soap) that does not contain lotion for the hands. Use a 100%, made in the USA, white cotton towel wrapped around a sponge as your washing medium; 100% cotton loops in a mat of some other material like polyester, Nylon, cotton blend, etc. is NOT what you want. The lesser quality towels can be used on glass or rubber surfaces.
Next is probably the single most important aspect of getting the best looking results and helping to insure the best protection of your car's paint: "deep-clean" the surface with clay. I used a combination package of Mother's brand clay and their detailing gloss that I already had before I had heard of and gotten my Zaino. If you ordered the entire Zaino line, add an empty, clean, used spray bottle of some household product or one you can get in a garden/plant store to your "arsenal" to mix the recommended combination of Zaino car wash (or is it the gloss?) with water as the lubricant for the clay. Spray a small area, then rub across the spray with the clay using a light to medium pressure; kind of like you would use a sanding block to finish sanding a wood project. You should soon work through the lubricant and hear a soft shussing sound as the clay works on the paint. As any contaminants are removed by the clay, the clay will probably glide more smoothly because the paint has become clean. Do this at a medium pace on horizontal surfaces and more slowly on vertical surfaces; you do NOT want to rush yourself and end up dropping the clay and contaminate it with dirt from the ground and end up scratching your paint. As a somewhat slow, careful process, you might want to shift between horizontal and vertical panels to mix the type of muscles you are using to keep from becoming overly-fatigued, become discouraged, and be less careful toward the end of your claying work. Rinse each panel as you finish it. As the surface of the clay coming in contact with the vehicle body becomes contaminated, work the clean clay over the soiled area with your fingers by folding the clean over the dirty, shaping it as you work it. You could re-wash the car at this point to get the residual lubricant rinsed off.
Dry the car with the "required" towel, or a clean chamois, synthetic seems to be the preferred type.
Apply Z1 with a clean "requred" towel or the Zaino applicator. DO NOT WIPE THE Z1 OFF THE VEHICLE SURFACE!
Thoroughly dampen whatever applicator you used to apply the Z1 with water. Next, spray a light amount of the Gloss Enhancer on the entire applicator surface, then a small amount of Z5, Z2, or Z3 polish. This technique helps keep the polish from soaking into the applicator and to spread the 5, 2, or 3 thinly and evenly. In the same sequence that you applied the Z1, apply the polish THINLY. Allow to dry thoroughly. Wipe off with a clean "required" towel, turning frequently.
To obtain the best result, in about 1' square sections, spray Gloss Enhancer, and wipe dry until you have gone over the entire car.
Depending on the weather and sunlight exposure, the ENTIRE process might not needed to be done for a year. Using Zaino car wash will help the look. Touch ups can be done with the Gloss Enhancer, or the resulting look CAN be enhanced with up to four additional coats of Z5 and Z2. Using the Gloss Enhancer between coats helps, also. Z1 could be used once a year, twice a year, or between every tenth coat of polish.