Waxes and Polishes, Part III

dharmabum · December 1999

So, excuse my stupidity but I gather that Zaino uses polymers which are different from silicone? I have read that silicones cause paint damage and it is not recommend you use them. The Zaino sounds great but I have yet to order any. Still researching. It does seem everyone that uses Zaino and posts to this board have nothing but glowing reports about it. My main objective is to protect the paint on my car but if it's easier to use than the traditional waxes, safe, and you get a better shine I would be sold on Zaino. I would appreciate any and all responses from Zaino users.

pat455 · December 1999

Sal Zaino unequivocally states that his products contain no silicone whatsoever. I am not so sure, though, that he acknowledges that his products use polymers. I could be wrong about this, but I think that is an assumption that has been made because what else could it be?

Personally, I find that the application and removal of Zaino products is far easier than that of traditional waxes, and provides an outstanding shine that far outlasts carnauba products.

You can look back through this topic for more information and also search (using the feature on the left) on "wax" - check out the archived "What's the Best Wax & Polish" and "Waxes and Polishes" topics for extensive discussions of Zaino.

(I am responding as a Zaino user and not as an Edmunds' representative.)

Pat
Community Leader/Maintenance & Repair Conference

pblevine · December 1999

Zaino IS a polymer based product which contains NO silicone addatives. Silicone is actually very hard at the molecular level and can damage your clearcoat. Polymers are very large hydocarbon based molecules which are 'soft'. Zaino protects a finish because it can be bonded to the clearcoat and the interlocking of many such molecules permitts the Zaino Z2 layer to easily expand and contract along with the car's paint. It can do this without breaking down as fast as wax. Please reference Sal Zaino's site (www.zainobros.com) for complete info.

ruking1 · December 1999

#51
I am going on two yrs Zaino use and on 4 HUGE suv's. Not only is it easier from a systems procedure point of view(4x less effort), but I do it less often (2-4x times less per suv), and it protects better. The other benefits from a purely cosmetic point of view is that it seems to need washing less often than the once a week, that I was used to.

dharmabum · December 1999

Thanks to all above for the info. I am taking the plunge this week and ordering some of everything!
I will put Zaino to the test with a 1990 truck that still has clear coat but needs detailing badly. If Zaino can make it look great, I'll definitely be a happy camper

One more question: This vehicle somehow managed to get white paint splattered on it (I have no idea how or where), will the clay process remove this? If not, any recommendations?

Sergeich · December 1999

Is there anything I could use on black plastic exterior pars of my Wrangler (such as door handles, side steps)?

Also I have a hardtop and I am wondering if I need anything special to protect it, or just washing is enough?

I ordered some Zaino Z1, Z2 and Z6. Is it going to be a good thing to use those on my two weeks old Jeep to help preserve paint? Or better not to put any wax on it?

What are the good store brands for a non abrasive glass cleaner , tire gloss, cloth interior and carpet cleaners?

I bought a $12 gift set of some kind "2000" brand, that includes everything. These are probably no good, right?

dharmabum · December 1999

Zaino makes a plastic polish.....did you get that; I've not used any Zaino but am waiting for my order to be delivered. If you don't have the Z-14 Plastic Polish; then check a pep boys or Autozone for Eagle 1 Plastic Polish (It has a pic of a jeep wrangler on the front). Bought some for a friend and she was amazed what it did for her soft top jeep windows. It was only $2.99 for a 12 or 16 oz bottle. Zaino also has a tire dressing but if you don't have it Meguair's makes a tire dressing that you can buy at any auto store. It's a "tire gel" and I really like it. Lasts at least 2-3 weeks even in rain or multiple car washes.
It is not a high gloss shine but does have a satin
type finish to it. I've been pleased with both Meguairs and Eagle 1 products but this board has convinced me I want to try Zaino.

ware · December 1999

You should use Zaino as soon as possible - no need to wait. Other good products I use and like are 3M Tire Dressing, Sprayway Professional Glass Cleaner (from autosupermart.com), Lexol Vinylex (for dash and vinyl), Z7 Car Wash.

Sergeich · December 1999

I've got a bottle of "Armor All Auto Glass Cleaner". Is it ok or should I throw it away?

What is the right way of cleaning glass? Is it ok to just spray the cleaner and whipe with paper towels?

I didn't get any Zaino products except for three waxes (Zaino Show Car "Polish Lok" Pre-Cleaner & Gloss Conditioner, Zaino Bros' Show Car Polish for clear-coated paint and Zaino Bros' Ultra Clean "Gloss Enhancer" Spray).

I ordered a bottle of 303 Protectant for hard top and plastic parts. Do you think it is going be ok? The thing about plastic parts is that the manual says that they must not be polished. That's why I didn't order Z-14, because it had the word "Polish" in it's name.

The kit I bought in Wallmart consists of Turtle Wax products - Tire Foam Shine, Emerald Series Liquid Wax (Carnuba Blend), Odor-X Interior Deodorizer, Formula 2001 Super Protectant with Sun Stop (for ruber, vinyl, plastic and leather) and Zip wax car wash.
These products are probably not the top of the line right?

Is there any special product for use on black metal bumpers?

pblevine · December 1999

Zaino Z14 is for INTERIOR plastic parts which are shiny. Exterior plastic is different. It is quite alright to use Z2 on exterior plastic. It won't make it shiny, but will protect it very well. The other product you mentioned (but not turtle wax) will also do ok.

Sergeich · December 1999

I wiped dust from alloy wheels with the paper towels left after glass cleaning. I used that Armor All ammonia-free glass cleaner; And now I am wondering if I have done something wrong and this stuff is going to oxidize the rims or something. Is there a special alloy wheels cleaning product that has to be used?

pblevine · December 1999

Not that I know of. I just use Zaino on my wheels and after about 2 coats of Z2, they seems to stay clean longer.

graphicguy · December 1999

After I bought my bright red Pontiac GP GTP this past summer, I immediately brought it home and did the full "Z" treatment...Dawned, clayed, Z7, z1, z2, z6. I had never used Zaino before and was making a leap of faith based on the reports here. Subsequently, I've Z2-Z6 my GP about 4 times since the initial wash/wax.

Well, winter hit (midwest) and the snow has fallen...lots of salted, slushy roads. Couldn't wash my car for about a month because of freezing temps. It looked pretty disgusting. Last weekend we had a break in the temperature (about 38 degrees). So I took the GP to one of those "spray wash" places. Aside from the fact that these places use the same dirty water over and over again (the dirt shows up on the drying towels), I was able to get most of the salt and winter grime off of my car.

Although, it didn't look as good as when I'm able to do the total Z routine, I was amazed at how the shine and protection held up after a month of being bombarded by the worst of winter driving. My car certainly looked better than anything else on the road...including my wife's car which had just been hand washed at one of those "boutique" type hand wash places (which she paid $50).

I've concluded that a Zaino'd car, in winter, will:

--be easier to wash
--resists dirt better
--require less washing (if they don't use salt in your area)
--look better even after using one of those crappy spray wash places
--protect better than any other wax I've used
--shine better than anything else, even after not washing for a month

In conclusion, Zaino is the best wax/polish product on the market.

pblevine · December 1999

My experience is just about the same. Only I wouldn't have subjected my car to a 'Spay & Wash'. Dirty water is like yellow snow. Last winter, all I did was to rinse the Z'd car with a garden hose. 'Ran it up and down the road a bit to aid drying and then hand dried it the rest of the way. Most of the dirt and junk just ran off the car and the Zaino shine remained strong until Spring.

Be Ye
Merry, Happy, and Compliant!

graphicguy · December 1999

Ordinary water was not going to free my car of the salt and grime (yes, it was that bad). I know that the "spray and wash" places leave a lot to be desired, but I certainly prefer them to the "softbrush" drive-thru car washes that leave scratches all over the car.

Those were my only two choices. I picked the lesser of two evils.

If I could only find a heated garage that would let me "handwash" my car on my own. Maybe a business opportunity.

pblevine · December 1999

Yeah, I too have had the same problems. I cannot find anyplace in NYC where they'll let me do it myself. Normally, I wash the car up in Otis, MA when visiting my family up there. And since winters are really cold there, it is hard to even attempt to turn the garden hose on.

I tried an automated drive-in car wash once. And yes, the brushes left scratch marks. And on the wheels too. That was before I discovered Zaino. Talking about business opportunities, how about a 'Do It Yourself' shop where people could do some work on their own cars including washing/waxing/Zaino'ng, oil changes, wheel rotations, etc. Not a full service shop, just light mechcanical stuff and simple modifications. Now that would be a winner!

ejy · December 1999

The rinse water is usually fresh. The soapy water is recycled and dirty. It's best to only use "rinse" where possible.

mxylplik2 · December 1999

For winter car washing, I plan to use one of those self-serve car washes in which I would have access to a water sprayer. I plan to use a Boar's hair brush specifically designed for car washing and fill a bucket of clean water to periodically rinse out the brush. The brush can be fitted with a pole to keep those hands dry and prevent them from getting really cold. After rinsing the car off, will dry with thick 100% terry cotton towels (I will use rubber gloves when doing this).

I do have a question, from your experiences, what are the risks (to the car) if water is sprayed all over the car at or below freezing (e.g., stuck windows, engine compartment problems, etc)? Your feedback is appreciated.

Ed
edandty@msn.com

fastdriver · December 1999

To all-

I have been using those spray washes since I got my 300M 18 1/2 months ago and have NOT encountered any problems at all. Usually I just use the plain water, but if it's fairly dirty, I use the soap spray. My car comes great. Maybe I have so many coats of ZAINO on it that it makes things easier.

I drive a few miles and pull into an empty lot and wipe it off. Good as new. Of course we've had no snow yet in So. CT so the car hasn't been that dirty yet. Even when the bad weather does come, this method still works great for me.

fastdriver

dharmabum · December 1999

Of course we don't have your cold weather problem much in Central Texas but Laser drive through car washes are readily available. These are the latest washes that use no brushes. Are there none of these up North? Many self serve gas stations have them here and discount the washes if you fill up. We also have full service car washes that will wash, vacuum and dry for 9.99. Of course if you use these all the time they will scratch your car but in a pinch they are great. We've had 70 degree weather so of course I can easily hand wash my vehicle

graphicguy · December 1999

Off topic, but...

I remember about 15 years ago there was a heated garage with 5 bays like you described that was in an "industrial" area in my town. It was rented by the hour. It had a lift. You could pull in to do your own work and even rent their tools if you so desired. I used to use it to do my own oil changes and tune-ups in the winter time. Just renting the bay (tool rentals were seperate charges) cost $6/hr. I could change my oil in about 15 minutes and the guy would only charge me $3 for the bay rental. Never washed my car there, but I probably could have if I wanted. It was busy all the time and you usually had to wait to get an open bay.

Signs were posted everywhere that the garage was not responsible for any of the mechanical work that you did and that the bays were rented to you "at your own risk".

The last time I went there, the owner (who I got to know fairly well) told me he was shutting down. When I asked why, he said one guy had his car high on the lift while he was in it (he had a friend on the ground opreating the lift).

Well, this "einstein" decided for some stupid reason to start his car on the rack and move the transmision through the gears (he was changing his transmission fluid). The car lunged off the lift and onto the ground spewing parts everywhere and some of the flying parts hit those that were working on their cars in the nearby bays. Surpisingly enough, the guy who was in the car when it fell off the lift, wasn't hurt. The owner of the garage was sued. Even though signs were posted stating that using the garage was at the customer's own risk, the guy lost the law suit. His insurance picked up the tab, but he couldn't get any more insurance and had to shut down.

mknight · December 1999

[Rant=on]

Morally the person who should have been sued for all damages was "einstein". Since he was probably an uninsured wage-slave like the rest of us, our wonderful legal system somehow justifies retargeting further up the food chain, somehow assuming the proprietor of an establishment is responsible for protecting everyone under his roof from the folly of other fools on the premises.

[/rant]

In reality, the owner could probably "get" insurance, but couldn't afford it without raising his prices to the point where he'd loose his customers.

--Mike

fastdriver · December 1999

dharmabum-

Not sure what a "laser" car wash is, but there is ONE CITGO gas station around here that has a great drive-thru car wash for $6.00- $5.00 if you gas up. The best wash they have soaps the car twice, rinses twice with high pressure and once with fresh water and then has high speed blowers to get rid of the water. Then, as you drive out when the front garage door opens, all the water from the door falls all over the car!! LOL.... It does do a great job. Of course having that ZAINO polish on the car helps to get rid of all the crap easily!

graphicguy-

I remember a place like that too around here a LONG time ago. Not sure what happened to it, but I'm sure it had everything to do with LIABILITY!! I would love to have a warm garage to wash and wax my car in the winter. Wish I had some rich friends with large heated garages! LOL.....

fastdriver

pblevine · December 1999

That is really a shame. There's always some clown who ruins it for everyone else. And we're always reading about the legal 'feeding chain' culture described by mknight. I'm sure insurance costs prevent the establishment of lot of good shops. How about those drive over slots with trenches under the center instead of lifts? Oh well, maybe your original post was the best idea. 'Just a place where you could wash (and Zaino) your own car. Sorry I tried to get fancy.

I guess my second New Years Resolution (1st is to stop smoking) will be to find one of those 'Spray and Washes'.

And To All: May Ye Be

Happy, Merry, and Y2K Compliant.

dharmabum · December 1999

Oh sorry but that is what they call them. Anyway, they are the automatic car washes that don't use brushes, just jets of water. Never had one dump any water on me going out...LOL They are not the best but if you live up North it's still probably better than having road salts build up on your vehicle. I found it's best to use the cheapest level as it doesn't use the wax which does nothing but put a film on the vehicle

rs_petty · January 2000

Just a thought, but maybe the guy at the gas station that your regular to would let you use his hose/water for a quick wash/dry.

Sergeich · January 2000

While waiting for my Zaino package to arrive, I have washed my new jeep yesterday for the first time. The thing is the truck was built in February and sold to me in December, only God knows where it had been all that time. I used a regular car washing concentrate and a soft sponge. My Jeep has white clear coat paint, and after regular washing I still able to see small mostly yellow dots embedded. The all painted surface affected equally. Do you think it is just the quality of the Jeeps paint, or there could be some damage from trees sap or something like that? I tried to leave a little bit of bug-remover on a test spot overnight, but it didnt help that spot much  it looks like it cleaned the spot a bit (that thing is pretty aggressive), but the dots are still visible. Is there any treatment for this you can recommend, before washing the truck with dishwashing liquid and applying Zaino?

pblevine · January 2000

There is no way to tell what those dots are from here, and yes, what they are does matter. Take it back to the dealer and have them find out what it is. If it is, indeed, tree sap spots, then you really should remove them via Dawn, and claying the surface. If they are paint defects, then try to get the dealer to repaint the entire surface. In any case, you'll want to get rid of them before you apply any Zaino.

pjyoung · January 2000

Due to an unusually mild New Years, I put my first application Zaino on my 99 300M. My car's white, so I didn't expect to see a dramatic "wet look"...but was I surprised! I couldn't believe how easy it was to apply, I let it dry about 4 hours (it was mild, but far from "warm"!), and I was again surprised at how easy it comes off...NO DUST! Even better, it easily came off the parts of the black plastic trim that I managed to accicently get some Zaino on.

I didn't have time to put a second coat on, but the first coat was remarkable. Parked the car in the garage over the weekend and I swear it got even shinier just sitting there! The real test comes this week...it's snowing now, so we'll see how it cleans up.

fastdriver · January 2000

pjyoung-

WAIT til you put on more coats of Z-2/Z-6!!! You won't believe it! I Z'd my Candy Apple Red 300M yesterday. It was about 60 degrees here in So, CT. Looks fantastic as usual- IMHO!

Sergeich-

I agree with pblevine to a degree. I would definitely take it back to the dealer to let them see it, but I would not go so far as having them repaint the whole Jeep, if indeed the whole vehicle is affected. Painting a spot here or there is one thing. Painting the whole vehicle will never be as good as the factory paint job IMHO. I wouldn't let them use any abrasive cleaners either to try and get those spots off as this will definitely compromise the thin coat of clearcoat that is on there. I would try the clay route first and see what happens. Then, if that doesn't work, I would have them get the factory rep involved especially since you JUST got this Jeep. Don't delay or they'll try to blame you!

Just my .02.

fastdriver

Sergeich · January 2000

If you look at my Jeep from 10 feet, the paint looks all right, as good as any other new car's paint. There is no specific place where those dots are concentrated; basically all white painted surfaces outside of the vehicle are affected. I just checked the parts of the paint inside the doors - they are not affected. It means that this defect is something that was acquired by my Jeep rather than introduced by a bad painting. The color of dots is rather dirty orange than yellow, with about 25 percent of those dots black. They are very small in diameter (smaller than a needle) and you have to really look close to the paint to see them. Sliding a finger on them you can feel those dots, as little little bumps, maybe like sand, only ten times smaller. If there is anything that can be done to get rid of those dots without making things worse, I would rather do it myself. Could those dots be particles of dust that diffused into the paint after the truck was staying dusty for month under Southern California Sun, or reaction of the paint to the aggressive cleaners used in car washes?

Sergeich · January 2000

I meant to say, for several months...

newwestd · January 2000

Are there any dots on the windows? It may look like dust that won't wipe off - check it in the sun. It sounds a lot like paint overspray.

The yellow color sure is a mystery - was anyone spray painting a house or apartment near your car? or your dealer? Vinyl house paint overspray can go a long way before it dries.

Also - I would try the clay process on a small area before anything else. Good Luck!

ejy · January 2000

I get those yellow-ish orange dots on my Silver Solara every spring and fall - they look much like what you describe. At first I thought it was from jet fuel as there is an airport just a mile away but now I think its a specific kind of tree sap. Erazer clay [yellow bar] removes them with very little effort (from experience) and other clays should work just as well. I would not recommend letting a dealer try to remove them. After a full Z treatment, most new spots tend to just wash away anyway.

rs_petty · January 2000

I have been following the posts and there seems to be a groundswell of support for Z. My questions are, have any of you used the product for long term, say 3-5 years, and has it had any effect on the cars finish and does Zaino have any protective effect to the finish from rock chips, etc?

Gischpel · January 2000

Those dots sound like rail dust in the paint. The orange color would indicate some have started to rust. The unrusted pieces would look black. I had this on my wife's light green Taurus.

Claying should remove them and leave your finish smoother than a baby's butt.

My two cents...

Terry

Sergeich · January 2000

I checked the windows - it seems like there are no dots on them. I guess I'll try claying. Are there any specific clays that are better than the others?

I think that I am going paranoic, and there are more of those dots every other time I look at
my Jeep. I think I should relax, it's a Jeep it is supposed to be dirty.

It appears that my case is another thing why ordering a vehicle is better than picking up one from a dealer's lot.

Sergeich · January 2000

You know what, I'll take some pictures of those dots and post them here in a couple of weeks.

pblevine · January 2000

Don't let it dot to you! Try Zaino's Clay provided the dis-coloration is at the surface. If the dot and stuff are below the paint surface, then you've got a legit manufacturing defect.

Sergeich · January 2000

Unfortunately I didn't order clay from Zaino (I didn't think I'd need to use a clay on a new vehicle). I am gonna go to Pep Boys today and see what they've gotten in the clay department.

What would be a proper procedure for claying before applying Zaino?

How about this:
Wash with down, wash with car wash liquid, clay, wash with car wash liquid again than Zaino?
Is it a bad Idea to take the Jeep to an automatic car wash with their harsh chemicals, right before manual washing?

If I decide to apply more than one layer of Zaino, how do I wash the vehicle before applying every next layer? With car wash or just with water?

fastdriver · January 2000

Sergeich-

If you go to http://www.zainobros.com/, I think you'll find a lot of helpful hints. I have some clay and Zaino tips if you want to e-mail me. Just let me know what format to send them in i.e Microsoft Word or Works etc. I'll try my best. I'm no expert! ;-))

fastdriver

pjyoung · January 2000

Zainoed my 300M New Years Eve...looked great. Monday, sloppy weather arrived. The 300M definitly needs mud flaps (the sides of my pretty beast are pretty dirty), but one thing I noticed right off the bat...dirt on the hood, roof and trunk don't seem to ever build up! It's kind of weird looking...the sides are disgustingly dirty, but the hood roof and trunk look almost clean! Hoping for warm(er) weather this weekend to clean it up.

I posted in the "no Zaino posts please" thread because the initial poster seemed to imply that Zaino was too difficult and time consuming to apply. This stuff is easier to apply than turtle wax, and oh the SHINE! I pity those folks who are avoiding Zaino under the assumption that it's too much work. Then again...as long as they exist, my (and other Zaino users) car will always look better!

fastdriver · January 2000

pjyoung-

Here, here! I'm with you!

fastdriver
http://www.geocities.com/MotorCity/Flats/7501/oct991.html

Sergeich · January 2000

I bought a pack of Mothers "California Gold Clay Bar paint Saving System". That's the only thing with a clay bar I could find in a local pep Boys.

Is it a good clay, or should I throw it away?

The package includes a bottle of Mothers "California Gold Showtime Instant Show Car Shine" for use as lubricant for claying.

newwestd · January 2000

I used the Mothers's from Pep Boys and it worked fine. Had to use a lot of the lubricant as the clay wants to stick to the car if it's dry. The car is oh-so-smooth now, like glass. After claying, I washed it again with Dawn to get off the clay and lube.

pblevine · January 2000

newwestd has it right! Use a lot of lubricant. And if you run out of the offical stuff, just use a solution of mild car wash (ie: Zaino's Car Wash, etc.). I've had the experience of having it stick to the car. 'Had to use some Z6 to get it off. The Mothers brand has a good rep., and I assume their Clay is also good stuff.

And yes, I'd Dawn, Clay, and normal wash before application of Z1.

And fastdriver: Beautiful pictures. Have you seen the ones on Sal Zaino's updated website? (www.zainobros.com)

fastdriver · January 2000

pblevine-

Thanks. The pics on Sal's site are great- almost as good as my pics! LOL.....

fastdriver

pjyoung · January 2000

Of course, I think the 300M looks good, even dirty, but your's didn't even look dirty!

jbadams · January 2000

and Finish First. Has anyone compared or used these products? Are they similar? I saw one post a while back that said he could not tell the difference between a Zaino and Liquid Glass test on his car.

devontie · January 2000

Has anyone ever heard of a polish/wax named Klasse?

Waxes and Polishes, Part III

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