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  • CarMan@EdmundsCarMan@Edmunds Member Posts: 38,514
    Hello Chris. Yes Saab actually has quite a few incentives on the 2001 9-5 Wagon right now. They currently have $5,000 lease cash on this particular model that may be combined with their supported lease money factors. The 3 year 12,000 miles per Saab Financial Services Corp. lease money factor and residual value for a 2001 9-5 Wagon SE V6 should be .00099 and 44%. The lease parameters for a 2001 9-5 Wagon 2.3L should be .00046 and 42%, respectively. Saab is currently advertising a lease on a fairly well equipped 9-5 Wagon that you can use as a reference point in your negotiations. Right now they are touting a 2001 9-5 Wagon 2.3L for $419 per month with $1,999 down over 36 months and with 12,000 miles per year.

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  • CarMan@EdmundsCarMan@Edmunds Member Posts: 38,514
    Ronald, you are missing one of the most important numbers a consumer cash look at when leasing a new car or tuck, the vehicle's capitalized cost. Without that number, it is very difficult to tell exactly how much money the dealership that you are working with is charging you and what sort of deal you are getting. You should ask your salesperson exactly what this car's cap cost is. I should be able to figure out approximately how much money they are charging you for this car if you provide me with its full MSRP. As soon as you post that information I will be able to back into its cap cost for you. Talk to you soon.

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  • boilermaker87boilermaker87 Member Posts: 10
    Hi car_man. I am 2 months from the end of a 39 month lease on a 99 Honda Accord EX Sedan. I have been looking at the VW Jetta GLS 1.8T, luxruy package, monsoon, and NE emmisions. Can you tell me what the residual and money factor currently are for a no security deposit, 3 year, 12k lease? One dealer told me 0.0024 and 60%. Is this correct? Thanks.
  • ronald15ronald15 Member Posts: 21
    Carman: The M.S.R.P. of the Passat I mentioned in post #2648 is $26,425. Hope this helps.
  • bryancalhounbryancalhoun Member Posts: 13
    Carman,

    For such an obscure car, a lot of discussion...

    I have a 1999 5 door S with 48K and 10 months to go on a 48 month lease. The current payoff is $19K and it seems to be worth only $12-13K.

    I called to have the current buyout reduced so that I can trade in (I was hoping to get it down to 15K) and they said the residual is guaranteed so I couldn't negotiate.

    Is there someone or any way to get it lowered? It would be a win/win for all as I am willing to take something of a hit. If I keep it to term, they lose BIG.
  • postoakpostoak Member Posts: 537
    Carman:

    When you buy excess miles, how do you figure your monthly payments? Do you convert the residual value from a percentage to an actual dollar amount and then subtract from that the cost of the extra miles to come up with a new, lower residual value?
  • ubrsfubrsf Member Posts: 51
    Would you happen to know what the December money factor for a BMW 2002 330i is? Thank you in advance.
  • mwagmwag Member Posts: 6
    2002 grand cherokee laredo 4.7 v8 4wd
    msrp 29,535
    invoice 27,763
    friends and family discount 278
    39mos/ 12k
    residual 14,100
    int 7.175% (money factor .0029)
    701 down inc first mo payment no sec dep
    3,500 lease cash (returning leasor)

    monthly payment 368(includes 6.00% sales tax)

    is this a good deal
    seems like the money factor should be lower.
    mark wagner
    mwag@aol.com
  • rxkerxke Member Posts: 168
    Hi Car man

    Based on all of your input I negotiated a lease price on a Mercedes E320 4matic for around $100 per month more than the A6 3.0(fully equipped)I was going to get. The Mercedes seemed to hold the road better than the A6. My wife, who drives an A4 even liked it better than the A6 because of how it drove around curvy roads.

    The dealer(NY suburbs) worked with me and was very helpful. The dealership picks up your car at your home when you need service and drops off a loaner.

    Thanks again for your help. I will be contacting you again this spring(May)to get pricing information on the 2002 Audi A4 1.8 quattro sedan.
  • CarMan@EdmundsCarMan@Edmunds Member Posts: 38,514
    Hi boilermaker87. I would be more than happy to help you out. If you were to lease a 2002 Volkswagen Jetta GLS 1.8T through VW Credit for 3 years with 12,000 miles per prior to the end of the month, you should be able to use their base lease money factor and residual value of .00200 and 58%. This lease money factor is a little lower than the one that you were quoted. Perhaps the dealership that you are working with is trying to bake a little additional profit into your deal by marking-up this car's money factor. You should be able to get them to lease you this car using the base factor without much difficulty. If not, then you may want to shop around a little bit at other VW dealers in your area.

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  • CarMan@EdmundsCarMan@Edmunds Member Posts: 38,514
    Thanks for the additional information, Ronald. I just played with some numbers for you and according to my calculations, using VW Credit's current base lease program for a 2002 Passat 4-cylinder Sedan (MSRP: $26,425) leased for 3 years with 10,000 miles per in order to arrive at a zero down, pre-tax monthly lease payment of $338 they would have to be charging you right around $25,350. Now that you know approximately what this car's capitalized cost is, you can look up its dealer invoice price here at Edmunds to see what sort of deal you are getting. You also may want to pay a visit to the Sedans Message Board to see what others have recently paid for similar cars.

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  • CarMan@EdmundsCarMan@Edmunds Member Posts: 38,514
    Hi Bryan. The higher up the chain you go when trying to negotiate a lower lease purchase price, the better. The first line of people who consumers interact with when they call their banks often have very little or no authority to negotiate purchase prices. Unfortunately, from time to time certain banks will insure their lease portfolio against residual value exposure so they do not take a huge bath when cars get returned to them. This may be the case in your situation. If your bank has insured your car then they probably will not be willing to work with you on its price. The only way to know for certain if there is any flexibility in your Saab's price is to try to get in touch with someone higher up and even then they may still say no. Good luck.

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  • CarMan@EdmundsCarMan@Edmunds Member Posts: 38,514
    Postoak, most banks' base residual values assume that the car or truck being leased will be driven 15,000 miles per year. If one chooses to purchase additional mileage in advance, this can usually be done one of two ways. The consumer can pay for the additional mileage at the beginning of their term or they can have the bank that they are working with divide the total cost of the excess mileage purchased by the number of months in the lease and then add the result to your 15,000 miles per lease payment. The rules that dictate how excess mileage is purchased frequently very from bank to bank, so it is best to speak with someone at your dealership or a representative of the bank that you are leasing through to find out the exact policy that applies for your lease.

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  • CarMan@EdmundsCarMan@Edmunds Member Posts: 38,514
    Ubrsf, the BMW Financial Services base lease money factor for a 2002 330i leased for up to 42 months should currently be .00190. This factor is scheduled to run through the end of the month.

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  • CarMan@EdmundsCarMan@Edmunds Member Posts: 38,514
    That's great, rxke. Congratulations on your new car. I am glad that I was able to help you out and appreciate the fact that you came back to let us know how everything turned out. Give me a holler when you are looking for information on that Audi.

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  • boilermaker87boilermaker87 Member Posts: 10
    Thanks Car_man. Out of curiosity, are money factors negotiable? That is if I went back to this dealer and questioned why he was using 0.0024 instead of 0.0020, in a nice way of course, would I just create problems?
  • sandhurstsandhurst Member Posts: 37
    In some states Lemon Laws apply to the purchase of a car. What rights exist if a leased car turns out to be a lemon?
  • CarMan@EdmundsCarMan@Edmunds Member Posts: 38,514
    Good question, boilermaker8. Yes, lease money factors are absolutely negotiable. Of course dealers are not allowed to charge their consumers less than a bank's base money factor, but you definitely should question their marking-up of the factor. If they don't agree to lower it to the base rate, there are tons of dealerships out there who would be more than happy to lease you this car using the base money factor. I think that the marking up of lease money factors is as common today as it ever was because consumers are so knowledgeable about vehicle prices now (given all of the information on the Internet) that dealerships are looking for a place to make a little of their lost profit back.

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  • CarMan@EdmundsCarMan@Edmunds Member Posts: 38,514
    Sandhurst, of course the specifics of these laws can vary from state to state, but I don't see why Lemon Law protection wouldn't extend to leased vehicles as well as purchased ones.

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  • boilermaker87boilermaker87 Member Posts: 10
    Thanks for the information Car_man.
  • pgl1pgl1 Member Posts: 63
    I am in the process of negotiating a lease on a late model CPO'd 3 Series. If any one would like to talk/share info. Please respond.
  • pgl1pgl1 Member Posts: 63
    Carman: I've got a month to go on a GMAC lease of an '99 Intrigue. The dealer I acquired the car through is no longer an Olds dealer. I called GMAC to get the buy-out price and negotiate same and was told that although GMAC owns the vehicle, no one with GMAC has authority to negotiate the buy-out price and that I would have to contact a dealer to negotiate the price. Is this true or am I just getting the run around? (I even got the GMAC rep to admit that if I turned the car in it will come back to GMAC and it will auction the car, but when I said let's cut to the chase and talk about the buy-out price I was again told that I'll have to call a dealer.) Typically how willing are GMAC/Olds dealers to negotiate the buyout price? (I understand some manufactures are more willing than others.) Also, could you give me any other tips that would help in this particular situation. (I've already researched the wholesale value on Edmunds.) I'd appreciate any help you could lend. Thanks.
  • CarMan@EdmundsCarMan@Edmunds Member Posts: 38,514
    You're welcome, boilermaker87.

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  • CarMan@EdmundsCarMan@Edmunds Member Posts: 38,514
    It definitely sounds like you are getting the run around to me, pgl1. It is ultimately, General Motors Acceptance Corp. who will decide how much money you can purchase your off-lease vehicle for and whether or not they are willing to sell it to you for less than the lease-end purchase price that was established when you signed your contract. It sounds to me as though you need to go a little higher up the ladder at GMAC to get an answer to your question. The higher up the chain you go when trying to negotiate a lower lease purchase price, the better. The first line of people who consumers interact with when they call their banks often have very little or no authority to negotiate purchase prices. Unfortunately, from time to time certain banks will insure their lease portfolio against residual value exposure so they do not take a huge bath when cars get returned to them. If your bank has insured your car then they probably will not be willing to work with you on its price. The only way to know for certain if there is any flexibility in your Intrigue's price is to try to get in touch with someone higher up and even then they may still say no. Good luck.

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  • postoakpostoak Member Posts: 537
    Mr. Carman:


    On Edmunds web page in the advice section where they show the calculation of a monthly lease payment, they show tax being applied to the depreciation of the vehicle AND the interest paid on the loan. Is that correct -- the interest paid is taxed? Here's the link:


    http://www.edmunds.com/advice/leasing/articles/43093/article.html

  • pgl1pgl1 Member Posts: 63
    Carman: Thanks for the advice; it was right on target. A forthright GMAC customer service rep admitted that no one at his location had the authority to deal, so he gave me the number for the "GMAC switchboard" 313-556-5000. The operator there gave me the number of the "district manager" for my area whose voice mail advised me that she was away until after New Year's Day. I'll let you know what she has to say. -- If the buy-out doesn't work, I'm considering a 36 month lease on a '99 cert. pre-owned 323i or 328i. What's your opinion of leasing this model? And what tips do you have re: BMW CPO leases? After some negotiation on a '99 CPO 328i w/ clean title, 36,923 mi., auto trans, prem. package, HK sound, heated seats, I was quoted a cap cost of 28,100 (Edmunds Trade-In Value 25,359; the dealer claimed to have purchased the car at auction for 26K, spent 1,100 to get it into the BMW CPO program and spent another 300 on I don't remember what); a resid. of 16,275; a money factor of .00280 (which seems high - I have my credit reports on order, and I know my rating will be very good to excellent). The dealer said with 2K down (whatever deal I enter into will be 0 down) the pre-tax payment would be 419/mon (or 443/mon w/ tax) plus 525 acquisition fee, 450 sec. fee & 294 title (which is way too high). The first offer was the same except for a cap cost of 31,995 (sticker) which resulted in a payment of 495/mon presumably pre-tax. How does this quote rate? My target spending range is 350/mon w/ 0 down. Should a dealer be able to deliver a 36 mon lease on a '99 CPO 323i or 328i for that? I really appreciate your help. Thanks.
  • mwagmwag Member Posts: 6
    carman,
    is this a god deal?
    2002 grand cherokee laredo 4.7 v8 4wd
    msrp 29,535
    invoice 27,763
    friends and family discount 278
    39mos/ 12k
    residual 14,100
    int 7.175% (money factor .0029)
    701 down inc first mo payment no sec dep
    3,500 lease cash (returning leasor)

    monthly payment 368(includes 6.00% sales tax)

    thanks mwag@aol.com
  • postoakpostoak Member Posts: 537
    Bill - thanks! This is more complicated than I thought. Also, since I live in Texas, not the answer I wanted to hear.
  • jim52jim52 Member Posts: 161
    I was told by a salesperson that BMW Finance won't do a 39 month lease. Does anyone know if this is true? I'd prefer a 39 month lease since you usually get the same residual as the 36 month but get to spread the depreciation over an extra 3 months. Also, can anyone confirm the current residual percentages for a 10K and 12K lease. Any guess as to what will happen to the current Money Factor (.0019) after this month ends?
  • CarMan@EdmundsCarMan@Edmunds Member Posts: 38,514
    I am surprised that Edmunds even mentioned the calculation of tax on leases in their explanation of how to calculate monthly lease payments. The rules that govern how tax is calculated on leased vehicles vary from state to state and really can not be generalized about.

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  • CarMan@EdmundsCarMan@Edmunds Member Posts: 38,514
    You're welcome, pgl1. I suspected that might be the case. Thanks for offering to come back and let us know how everything works out. I always enjoy hearing back from community members about their deals. BMW is actually one of the few manufacturers that has attractive leases on Certified Pre-Owned vehicles from time to time. Unfortunately, used vehicle lease programs are difficult to keep track of because of all of the variables involved, so I can't tell you exactly what the parameters for a lease of the vehicles that you are interested in should be like. Still, the most important number that you can negotiate when leasing a used vehicle is still probably its price. It's tough to say if you will be able to lease a used 328 for in your price range, but if you are going to have to pay over $400 per month with $2,000 down to lease a used 328, you are better off getting a brand new one. Right now BMW is advertising a lease on a 2002 330i for $375 per month with $2,500 down over 3 years with 10,000 miles per.

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  • jim52jim52 Member Posts: 161
    Do you know of any similar lease specials on 2002 530's?
  • lazuralazura Member Posts: 43
    Car_Man,

    I am in the market for a mid-size SUV and I'm considering the BMW X5, MB ML320 and ML500 and Lexus RX300 2WD. You have already provided the lease numbers for the X5 (thank you), but what are the lease numbers (money factor, residual %) for the MB ML320, MB ML500 and Lexus RX300 2WD. I would like the lease numbers for 3 years / 15,000 miles per year. Also, have you heard if BMW, MB or Lexus will accept multiple security deposits in order to lower my money factor? Thank you.
  • lazuralazura Member Posts: 43
    Car_Man,

    I am calculating different lease monthly payment amounts than my local dealer and I think it's related to all the fees being charged. Are any of the fees below added to MSRP when determining the residual? If not, then this is another one of those 'hidden' things that dealers use to increase their profit. It's bad enough that we have to pay these fees, but if they are not added to MSRP, then the customer doesn't even get any depreciation benefit.

    Destination charge
    Disposition fee
    Dealer prep fee
    Advertising fee
  • postoakpostoak Member Posts: 537
    I'm a novice at this too, but since residual is figured as a percentage of MSRP, wouldn't it be to your benefit to have the dealer add these things in? Where you want the figure lower is the capitalized cost.

    For example in the formula below the higher the number used for MSRP, the lower your lease payments are going to be for a given cap cost, disregarding taxes, the handling of which vary from state to state.

    Depreciation = ( cap cost - [xx% x MSRP])
  • CarMan@EdmundsCarMan@Edmunds Member Posts: 38,514
    Hi mwag. This actually does look like a pretty good deal to me. Having said that, Chrysler Financial's lease money factors for the Jeep Grand Cherokee vary depending upon where you live. The only way for me to know if your dealership is marking up the lease money factor that they are using to calculate your monthly payments is if you tell me where you are going to lease this truck. Once I have that final piece of information I will be able to give you my complete evaluation of the deal. Talk to you soon.

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  • CarMan@EdmundsCarMan@Edmunds Member Posts: 38,514
    Hello Jim. The salesperson who told you that BMW Financial Services does not offer 39 month leases was either lying or did not know what he/she was talking about. BMW FS definitely is offering 39 month leases on all of its models right now. Having said that, your assumption about the residual values is not correct in this situation. Although certain captive finance companies do allow the use of 36 month residual values for 39 month leases from time to time, this is usually the exception rather than the rule. BMW FS currently publishes an entire set of residual values for 39 month leases that are a couple of percent lower than its 36 month resids. This bank's exact lease money factors vary depending upon what model you are interested in. If you let me know exactly what you are interested in leasing, I should be able to give you a good idea of what you can expect its lease money factors to be like at this time. Talk to you soon.

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  • CarMan@EdmundsCarMan@Edmunds Member Posts: 38,514
    Ahhh I see that I spoke too soon, Jim. You did let me know what model you are interested in in your next post. The lease money factor that you mentioned in your previous post is exactly what BMW Financial services is running on the 2002 530i at this time. Other than the supported lease money factor, BMW is not currently providing any sort of incentives on 2002 5-Series models. It is difficult to say what they will do with this model's incentives program once their current one expires at the end of the month. However, if I had to guess I would say that they will probably introduce a very similar, if not exactly identical program for the month of January.

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  • jim52jim52 Member Posts: 161
    Do you know the 36 and 39 month residual value percentages for the 2002 530 at 10K and 12K miles per year? What you said above was news to me. I haven't shopped for a car in over a year. The two cars I am currently leasing (a ML320 and 328i) are both on 39 month leases that used the same residual % as the 36 month lease. That's the only reason I chose the 39 month lease. Is having a different % for 39 months a new trend due to the popularity of this lease term? Also, do you have any feeling as to what a good deal (over invoice or under MSRP) would be on a 2002 530 right now? Does the fact that they are planning to redesign the model help?

    Thanks again for all your help.
  • lazuralazura Member Posts: 43
    Yes, you are correct postoak. I do want the dealer to add these fees to MSRP, but the leasing software refers to 'Base' MSRP and lists these fees as separate line items. Which leads me to believe that the customer still has to pay them as part of the total cost, but doesn't get the benefit of adding them to the 'Base' MSRP. As a customer, I would much rather depreciate these fees than pay for them as part of 'amount due at signing'.
  • pen101pen101 Member Posts: 238
    I just talked to my local dealer (salesman was very straight forward and helpful). Here is the the information he gave me on either a 330i or 530i for a 36 month lease:

    Residual: 62%
    Money Facor: .0019 (with security deposit, otherwise it is .0245)
    Bank fee: $725
    Doc fee: $45
    Licence: $300 (approx)
    Security payment: 1st month's payment rounded up to nearest $50.

    Note, there are no other fees other than those above. Also he says that he thinks money factor will go up in January, because right now BMW is trying to push up sales for the year to reach record levels. Also he says invoice price will go up 1% in January, but not MSRP (I also read about this somewhere else). Also, for those in California, sales tax rates are going up in January by 1/4%. Also, luxury tax rate will be lower in January (I think going from 4% to 3%) and starting at a higher threshhold.

    Note: For Califoria (may be the same elsewhere) the State Board of Equalization says that "a sale is deemed to occur when your customer takes title to or possession of an item." Therefore, seems to mean this means that even if I order the car in December, but take delivery and start the lease in January, I will have to pay the higher sales tax rate. However, the difference is not substantial.

    He also says that BMW does not currently offer 39 or 42 month leases. Also he says currently the money factor on the 325 is higher.

    Any comments?
  • im_brentwoodim_brentwood Member Posts: 4,883
    Advertising fee? That's a fee charged to the invoice, and not the MSRP. If the dealer is adding it on, and it is not on the invoice from the factory, its probably bogus.

    Disposition fee is at the end of the lease and is charged by the leasing company, similar to an Acquisition fee charged at the beginning.

    Dealer Prep is a fee charged by the dealer.

    Destination is part of the MSRP, ergo it can be residualized.

    Bill
  • pgl1pgl1 Member Posts: 63
    Carman: Thanks for the info. Per your message 2688. Could you tell me the current BMW FS money factor and residual for a 36 month lease on a '99 323i with 15K mi per. I'd be forever greatful.
  • CarMan@EdmundsCarMan@Edmunds Member Posts: 38,514
    Hi again, lazura. I would be happy to give you an idea of what the lease parameters should look like for the SUVs that you are interested in. The captive finance companies' 3 year, 15,000 miles per base lease money factors and residual values for the trucks that you are looking into getting should currently be .00319 and 61% for the Mercedes-Benz ML320, .00326 and 60% for the ML500, and .00235 and 57% for the Lexus RX300 2WD (with Value Package). I believe that both BMW and Lexus will allow lessees to make multiple security deposits on leases to reduce their lease money factor.

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  • CarMan@EdmundsCarMan@Edmunds Member Posts: 38,514
    Lazura, of the fees that you mentioned, the only one that can be added to a vehicle's MSRP when calculating your its residual value is the destination charge. This figure must be included in your calculations. As far as the fees themselves go, if you are paying full MSRP, or anywhere near it, for any of these trucks you definitely should not have to pay an additional advertising fee on your deal. Having said that, I am a big advocate of looking at the big picture when negotiating a deal on a car or truck. It is in your best interest to comparison shop at a couple of dealerships for the vehicle that you are interested in. Once you have done that, evaluate the deals in terms of their total cost to you, ignoring all of the little fees that dealers try to add on and go with the most attractive deal (provided that you feel comfortable with the dealer).

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  • CarMan@EdmundsCarMan@Edmunds Member Posts: 38,514
    No problem, Jim. Here is the additional information that you are looking for. If you were to lease a 2002 BMW 530i through BMW Financial Services prior to the end of the month its 36 month 12,000 miles per year base money factor and residual value should be .00190 and 62%. The 10,000 miles per residual value for this term should be 63%. If you were to lease this car through BMW FS for 39 months, the numbers should be .00190, 59%, and 60%. I really don't think that having different residual values for 39 month terms is anything new. Banks that have identical 36 and 39 month residual values are definitely the exception rather than the rule. I believe that when Mercedes-Benz Credit Corp. was running identical 36 and 39 month residual values it was actually considered a special program to encourage business. I am not all that familiar with what the market is like for the BMW 530i in your area at this time, but I personally think that if you can negotiate a deal midway between MSRP and invoice you have done a great job. You should probably pay a visit to the Town Hall Sedans Message Board prior to going shopping to see what other community members who are either in the market for or who already own this car believe a reasonable deal would be right now.

    Happy Holidays,

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  • jason64jason64 Member Posts: 50
    Hi car man, I would like to terminate my 5yr lease early (now 1yr into the lease). I would like to turn the car in to the dealer I purchased the car from. I understand dearlers are not into the business of buying used cars back. What should I expect from this deal? Your input is much appreaciated.
  • tinlittletinlittle Member Posts: 21
    Car_man, thanks for the information on the 740 and 2002 X5.

    The 20002 X5 leasing offers looks good but not as good as the 2001 X5 (especially the 4.4) that was running during November. Since there was a $2500 dealer cash on the 2001 X5 4.4.

    Because of some trade in issues, I didn't lease the X5 at the end of November. Now I want to try my luck again with the few 2001 X5 sitting on dealer lot. I guess I could strike a better deal on a 2001 model than a 2002 model. And since I am leasing, it doesn't matter much to me except the lower residual value wich could be offset by dealer incentive and dealer's eagerness to get rid of them.

    So could you please give me some information on the leasing numbers on a 2001 X5 4.4 and if the $2500 dealer cash is still there.

    By the way, is the $7500 dealer cash on a 740iL gone? If so, how is the dealer supposed to move the remaining 740il out? They were offerred at $12k below msrp and still couldn't move.

    Thanks in adavance.
  • pen101pen101 Member Posts: 238
    Do you know if currently there are any dealer incentives on a BMW 330i or 530i? Also, dealer told me that invoice price may increase on BMW 330i in January by 1%. Any way to confirm this?

    Thanks in advance.
  • jim52jim52 Member Posts: 161
    Car_man, do you know the current MF and residual % on 36 and 39 month leases at 10K and 12K miles for the GS300? Thanks again for your help.
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