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  • CarMan@EdmundsCarMan@Edmunds Member Posts: 38,514
    Benji123, some of the vehicles that you are interested in I can provide you information on right now, and others just introduced new lease programs so you will have to check back with me for information on them. If you were to lease a 2002 Subaru WRX Wagon through Subaru's captive finance company this month for 3 years with 12,000 miles per, you should be able to use their base lease money factor and residual value of .00225 and 53%.

    Ford is not currently providing any sort of lease rate support on the Escape. So if you were to lease one through Ford Motor Credit at this time, you would have to use their standard lease rates, which are not very good (I believe that they are around 9.something%, ouch). The 3 year 12,000 miles per residual value for a 2002 Ford Escape XLT Premium 2WD leased through Ford Motor Credit should currently be 48%. Mazda is not providing any sort of lease support on the 2002 Tribute right now either. So you are probably much better off leasing one through an outside lending institution than their captive finance company. If I was looking into getting either of these trucks, I would seriously consider financing them instead of leasing. Interest rates in general are pretty low right now and would be much more attractive than a manufacturers' standard lease program.

    The lease programs for Toyota and Lexus were scheduled to expire at the end of January. I have not seen their February programs yet, but should have had a chance to look at it by late this week. Please feel free to check back with me then.

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  • CarMan@EdmundsCarMan@Edmunds Member Posts: 38,514
    Mg330ci, I am positive that the information that I provided you with is correct and is a national lease program. No banks publish information on their lease programs for use by the general public. This is because many dealerships mark up lease rates in order to bake additional profit into their deals. Rather than continuing to beat a dead horse with this particular dealership if they refuse to admit what the true base lease money factors for this car are, I personally believe that you should comparison shop at another BMW dealership or two in your area. By doing so, you should be able to find one that will lease you this car using BMW FS' base lease program without too much difficulty. Good luck.

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  • CarMan@EdmundsCarMan@Edmunds Member Posts: 38,514
    Hi again Seqlady. Although it is annoying to have to pay a bank fee when leasing a new vehicle, I can assure you that all banks definitely do charge their customers an acquisition fee, aka bank fee, on leases. Dealerships often have the right to mark up a bank's base acquisition fee in order to bake additional profit into a deal, but this is not what is happening in your case. $490 is Audi Financial Services' base fee. As far as your current leased vehicle goes, I am not surprised that the dealership that you are working with will not provide you with any sort of trade-in allowance for it. Technically you do not own the car, Audi Financial Services or whatever bank you are leasing it through does. The dealership that you are working with would have to purchase your vehicle from them in order to take possession of it. Otherwise it just goes back to AFS and likely to auction. Your dealership is only going to be willing to go through the trouble of purchasing your car for itself if it is worth significantly more than its lease-end purchase price. There is probably a smaller spread between this car's real world value and its lease-end purchase price than what most Web sites currently say there is.

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  • CarMan@EdmundsCarMan@Edmunds Member Posts: 38,514
    Thanks for letting me know what part of the country you are in, Pat. I was going to ask you for that info until I scrolled down a little further and saw your second post. If you were to lease a 2002 Jeep Grand Cherokee Limited 4WD through Chrysler Financial right now in your neck of the woods (I believe that you are in their Cincinnati Zone) for 3 years with 12,000 miles per, you should be able to use their base lease money factor and residual value of .00290 and 47% if you qualify for them. I haven't seen the new lease program that Lexus just released yet, but I should have had an opportunity to take a look at it by the end of the week. Please feel free to check back with me then for an answer to your second question.

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  • CarMan@EdmundsCarMan@Edmunds Member Posts: 38,514
    Good morning, vlbray. Acura's January lease program is scheduled to run through February 4th (today). As you can imagine, I have not had an opportunity to check out their February program yet, but should have an idea of what it is like later on this week. Please feel free to check back with me then and I would be more than happy to give you an idea of what the lease program on this car should be like. Talk to you soon.

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  • CarMan@EdmundsCarMan@Edmunds Member Posts: 38,514
    That's great news, pgl1. I am glad to hear that everything turned out well for you. Thanks for taking the time to come back and let me know how everything went!

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  • silvercrownsilvercrown Member Posts: 237
    Hi Car_man,

    Well, 2 more cars have made their way onto the list. What are the money factors and residuals for the VW Passat GLS 1.8T and the Nissan Altima S? Same deal, 36 months, 12k and 15k miles/year. Thank you so much.
  • treyismtreyism Member Posts: 1
    I am about to return a Chevy S-10 after a 3 years. I am 9K under the mileage limit!!! But I have used the truck a little. This is not a work truck but I have moved some boxes and such in the bed of the truck and scratched it up a little.

    Has anyone returned a truck? And if so, do they hit you for excessive wear if there are scratches inside the bed?
  • CarMan@EdmundsCarMan@Edmunds Member Posts: 38,514
    Good evening, eroder. Yes, it is indeed possible to lease a used vehicle. Many banks, as well as manufacturers' captive finance companies, issue lease programs for for used vehicles. Vehicles that are much older than 4 or so years old usually are not eligible for lease programs though. I know for a fact that Infiniti does have an official certified used vehicle lease program that they run through Infiniti Financial Services. Like any loan, your credit history certainly will play a role in what sort of interest rate you will be approved at when you apply to lease any vehicle, new or used. Different banks have different guidelines as to what customers qualify for their lowest interest rates. The only way to find out if you qualify for a bank's best rates is to apply. If you have had some credit problems in the past though, it might be a good idea for you to get a copy of your credit report to make sure that it is accurate prior to applying for any sort of lease or loan.

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  • CarMan@EdmundsCarMan@Edmunds Member Posts: 38,514
    Greetings, markhampton. Even though the X-Type is technically made by Ford it is actually a very nice car. I have been impressed with it ever since I saw it at its official unveiling at the North American International Auto Show. The fact that it is 4WD makes it a great alternative to Subarus and Audis if you are not into them but still live in a place that gets snow and ice. In fact, I just helped my mother-in-law lease one and she loves it. If I had to choose an AWD vehicle, I would personally still probably go with the A6 quattro (2.7T probably), but the X-Type does have some redeeming qualities. Let's take a look at the lease programs for these two cars. If you were to lease a 2002 VW Passat GLS 4Motion through Volkswagen Credit this month for 3 years with 12,000 miles per, the base lease money factor and residual value should be .00185 and 57%, respectively. As far as the Jag goes, if you were to lease a 2002 Jaguar X-Type 2.5 Auto through Jaguar Credit for 3 years with 12,000 miles per this month I believe that the base lease money factor and residual value should be around .00128 and 56%, respectively. If you think of any other questions at all, please don't hesitate to ask.

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  • CarMan@EdmundsCarMan@Edmunds Member Posts: 38,514
    I am glad that you enjoy visiting the Finance, Warranty, and Insurance Message Board so much, automind. Just make sure to keep coming back ;). Here are the 3 year 15,000 miles per base lease money factors and residual values for the cars that you are interested in if you were to lease them this month through their captive finance companies. Let's begin with the 2002 Audi A6 2.7t (nice car BTW). This car's factor and residual should be .00165 and 54%. The factor and residual for the 2002 Audi allroad should currently be .00190 and 56%. As far as the 2002 Audi S6 goes, I believe that they are only currently manufacturing an S6 Avant but no Sedan. The 2002 S6 Avant currently has a factor and resid of .00280 and 56%. Now let's take a look at the BMWs. If you were to lease a 2002 BMW 525i through BMW FS right now the numbers should be .00205 and 60%, respectively. Interestingly enough, now that I take a close look at them, the 36 month lease money factors and residual values for all 2002 5-Series models (with the exception of the awesome M5) are exactly the same.

    Excess mileage charges for leases vary from bank to bank. You will need to ask the dealerships that you are working with to find out the exact cost per additional mile. If you believe that you will exceed your allotted mileage, it often pays to purchase extra miles when your sign your lease agreement rather than when you turn your car in because many banks provide a discount on miles purchased at the beginning of a lease term. I think that this post addresses all of the questions that you had, but if you think of any others, fire away :).

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  • CarMan@EdmundsCarMan@Edmunds Member Posts: 38,514
    Hi silvercrown. It's nice to see that you have become such a regular in this discussion. I am always goad to help out, so keep 'em coming :). So your friend wants to lease a new Saturn L-Series huh? You will be shocked when you see how low the lease rates are on them right now. If your friend was to lease a 2002 L300 this month through General Motors Acceptance Corp. for 3 years with 15,000 miles per, they should be able to use a base lease rate and residual value of .12% (that's right almost 0%) and 48%, respectively. The 12,000 miles per year residual value for this car would increase to 51%. From the beginning, General Motors has stuck to its no-haggle pricing policy for Saturn. As part of this policy, not only are Saturn dealerships forbidden from providing discounts from vehicles' MSRPs, but GM will never offer any sort of cash incentives on Saturns. As a result, they are not eligible for the $2,002 bonus cash program that GM is running right now. The lease rates that they are providing are pretty attractive though.

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  • CarMan@EdmundsCarMan@Edmunds Member Posts: 38,514
    Hello beach15. Let's take a look at the trucks that you are interested in leasing. Ahhh, I will be able to answer your question a lot more quickly than I originally thought I would. All of the models that you mentioned in your post are produced by General Motors. When they announced their $2,002 bonus cash program a little while ago, GM also standardized their lease rates on all of their vehicles (excluding Cadillac and Saturn). If you were to lease any of the trucks that you mentioned through General Motors Acceptance Corp. right now for 3 years, the base lease rate should be 6.5%. Now let's take a look at these trucks' residual values. The 3 year 15,000 miles per GMAC supported residual values for the trucks that you are looking at are as follows: 52% for the 2002 Buick Rendezvous AWD, 48% for the 2002 GMC Envoy, 48% for the 2002 GMC Yukon, 48% for the 2002 Oldsmobile Bravada, and 48% for the 2002 Chevrolet Trailblazer. Remember, that all of these models are eligible for the $2,002 bonus cash that may be used in conjunction with this lease program. In addition to that cash, the Rendezvous has an additional $500 lease cash available on it and the Envoy / Trailblazer / Bravada have an additional $1,000 on them in certain regions. Please let me know if you have any other questions.

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  • CarMan@EdmundsCarMan@Edmunds Member Posts: 38,514
    You certainly are a General Motors fan, beach15. They are actually have been on quite a roll lately and in my opinion are in the best position out of all of the Traditional Big 3 automakers. As you might imagine, General Motors is not providing any sort of lease support on the brand new CTS, so if you were to lease one through General Motors Acceptance Corp. this month you would have to use their standard lease rates. I don't know exactly what their best standard rate is right now, but they usually aren't very good. It's probably around 7.99% or so. The 3 year 15,000 miles per residual value for a 2003 CTS leased through GMAC should currently be 51%.

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  • CarMan@EdmundsCarMan@Edmunds Member Posts: 38,514
    OK, let's take a look at Hyundai's current lease program. Hold on to your seat because it usually is very very ugly. The last that I heard, Hyundai's base 3 year 15,000 miles per money factor and residual value for the 2002 Sonata with automatic transmission and A/C (non-GLS) were .00399 and 41%. The base money factor for the 2002 Santa Fe is also .00399. Its residual values vary depending upon which exact model you are interested in getting though. Could you be a little more specific about the truck, i.e. is it a GL, GLS, or LX; 2WD or 4WD; etc... Once I have this additional information I will be able to give you an idea of what its residual values are currently like.

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  • CarMan@EdmundsCarMan@Edmunds Member Posts: 38,514
    Good morning, silvercrown. Here's the information that you are looking for on the two additional cars. If you were to lease a 2002 Volkswagen Passat GLS 1.8T Sedan through Volkswagen Credit this month for 3 years with 15,000 miles per, the base lease money factor and residual value should be .00200 and 55%, respectively. The 12,000 miles per year residual value would increase to 57%. If you were to lease a 2002 Nissan Altima 2.5 S through Nissan Motor Acceptance Corp. this month for 3 years with 15,000 miles per, the base lease money factor and residual value should be .00244 and 51%, respectively. The 12,000 miles per year residual value for this car would increase to 52%.

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  • CarMan@EdmundsCarMan@Edmunds Member Posts: 38,514
    Hi treyism. I was able to find the following information on excess wear and tear charges for leased vehicles on General Motors Acceptance Corp.'s Web site:

    "Excess Wear

    An excess wear charge results when the wear or damage to the vehicle is beyond normal vehicle wear. Any excess wear charge is determined at the time the vehicle is returned.

    To help prevent excess wear, always maintain your vehicle in accordance with the manufacturer's recommended maintenance schedule. See your owner's manual for more details. For added convenience, SmartCare, an affordable maintenance plan, is available from your dealer.

    Your leased vehicle insurance policy may pay to repair damage that would be considered excess wear. If your vehicle is in an accident, you should file an insurance claim.

    Excess Wear includes such items as:

    - Glass that is damaged or that you tinted

    - A damaged or corroded body, trim, frame,
    crossmember, suspension, engine, powertrain,
    or other mechanical part

    - Damaged paint

    - A torn, damaged, or stained interior or
    trunkliner

    - Missing equipment that was in or on the
    vehicle when delivered and not replaced with
    the equipment of equal quality and design
    (including a missing wheel, wheel cover, jack
    or wheel wrench)

    - A tire (including spare) that is unsafe, is
    not the size and type the manufacturer
    recommends, is recapped or a snow tire, or has
    less than 1/8 inch of tread left at the
    shallowest point

    - A damaged or worn brake that does not meet
    government safety standards

    - Oil leaks or low oil pressure

    - A malfunctioning electrical system, battery
    or lights

    - Any other condition that makes the vehicle run
    in a noisy, rough, improper, unsafe, or
    unlawful way

    - Any other damage"

    As you can see they basically mention any sort of damage that one can possibly think of a vehicle having in their description of excess wear and tear, but do not go into how extensive this damage is allowed to be. Many banks use the guideline that they will not charge their lessees for any scratches or dings that are small enough that they can be covered up by a credit card. There are two ways that you can get a better idea about whether you will be liable for any excess wear and tear on this truck when you turn it in. One would be to contact GMAC directly to see if they have some sort of lease-end packet they can send you. Many banks, such as American Honda Finance Corp. and Nissan Motor Acceptance Corp. for example, send their customers templates that they can use to evaluate their vehicle. These templates contain descriptions of what they consider to be excess wear and tear, along with actual measurement tools that one can use to evaluate their car or truck. You also may want to consider bringing your truck by a GM dealership prior to the end of your lease term. They should be able to give you a decent idea of whether or not you will have to pay an fines on your vehicle.

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  • sballardsballard Member Posts: 13
    Hello,

    What a wealth of information you provide here.

    Last week, I went to several dealerships looking to lease a 2002 Grand
    Cherokee Laredo 4x4 F package. I was looking for a 36 month 12k/year lease
    with as little money down as possible. I am currently leasing a 1999 Cherokee
    sport whose lease is up March 20th.

    The numbers they gave me seemed very high. So, yesterday I went to the
    Chrysler financial web site and plugged the numbers in to see what lease
    payment they would come up with. Those numbers seemed much more
    reasonable, even with the 9% State Tax added on.

    Did the money factor or residual rates just change, or were the dealerships
    messing with the numbers?

    Thanks in advance!...Shawn
  • tgif888tgif888 Member Posts: 351
    Car_man,

    I had known from Acura website that the 2003 TL Type S is available. Do you have any info. on the money factor and residual value on a 4 yr/12k miles per year lease? The website can't calculate the payment. It said need to contact dealer. I want to know this up front before step in a dealership.

    Thanks.
  • CarMan@EdmundsCarMan@Edmunds Member Posts: 38,514
    Good morning Shawn. I am glad that you enjoy the Finance, Warranty, and Insurance Message Board. Well, Chrysler did make some revisions to their incentives program on January 30th, but these revisions were all enhancements to their existing programs and definitely should not make it more expensive to lease any of their products. If you provide me with the full MSRP and capitalized cost of the Grand Cherokee that you are interested in, I would be more than happy to calculate a sample lease payment on it for you.

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  • CarMan@EdmundsCarMan@Edmunds Member Posts: 38,514
    Tgif888, Acura has not provided any sort of lease support on the TL since its first major redesign hit the streets. This will probably be the case with the 2003 TL as well. As a result, if you lease one through American Honda Finance Corp., you will have to use their standard lease money factors. I should have a good idea of what their new standard factors are like later on this week. I may even be able to find out what the '03 TL residuals are like, if they have been announced. Please feel free to check back with me in a couple of days.

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  • sballardsballard Member Posts: 13
    Thanks Car Man!

    The MSRP on the Cherokee I'm interested in is $28,935. I'm going to offer
    $27,100. I am aware of the $2500 incentive on Cherokees and $1000 for
    returning chrysler lesees. That should put the cap cost at $23,600 (unless
    I screwed something up).

    Thanks Again...Shawn
  • sballardsballard Member Posts: 13
    Hi Car Man,

    I have some more info. I just got off the phone with the dealer, and
    we settled on a price of $27,975. They quoted me $440/month on a
    36 month lease with $1995 due at inception, and a residual of $13,834.

    Based on what I typed in at the chrysler financial web site, I get the
    following. $27,975 - $3500 - $900 = $23,575 Cap Cost

    Monthly payment = $316.68 + 9% Sales Tax = $345.18
    Risidual = 13,258.70

    So, it would seem that their quoted monthly payment differs
    from the Chrysler Financial web site payment by almost $100/month.
    And their residual is about $500 higher.

    Are the Chrysler Financial numbers really that far off? Or is the
    dealership playing with the numbers?

    Thanks...Shawn
  • mspdrivermspdriver Member Posts: 5
    Carman - Regarding the lease of a 2002 GMC Envoy SLT - I was at the dealer Feb 1, 2002 and they quoted me a 6.5% money factor with a .44 (44%) residual with 15,000/yr miles. (12,000 was .47 (47%)). They gave me the computer printouts from the quoting system so I know I have them right. You post had 15,000 mi residuals of .48. Am I getting a raw deal or should I confront the dealer with this? Where do you get your numbers - is there a source I can quote or?? Does it sound like they are yanking me around?

    I am looking at a 2002 GMC Envoy SLT loaded. The GM Buypower price (internet price) is $200 over invoice (plus adv pricing) so...
    MSRP $37825 and my price $32907 residual .44 lease factor 6.5 - monthly payment $0 down is 603.71.

    Should I call another dealer and tell him I want a better residual - with GMAC. He said he would check other leases - came back and said he got a lower lease money factor(5.9 or 6.3%)but worse residuals - that was the best. He seemed pretty honest - books out etc. Did they recently change (Feb 3?) the residuals all around?

    Any other info I can give to you to help... I just think a payment of $600/plus seems pretty high - but maybe this vehicles residuals aren't that great...

    Thanks in advance!

    M
  • mspdrivermspdriver Member Posts: 5
    Sorry - above - forgot I was talking a 36/mo closed end lease.

    M
  • jbryson1jbryson1 Member Posts: 6
    A relative of ours is an employee of Chrysler, so, we get a "green sheet" deal. I believe it's something like 3% below dealer cost. I don't like buying, so, I lease. So, the leasing company (usually Chrysler) buys the vehicle at the attractive price and then we lease for 24 months. Should I try and shop the lease outside of the Chrysler leasing company? Thanks for your advice.
  • CarMan@EdmundsCarMan@Edmunds Member Posts: 38,514
    Thanks for the additional information, Shawn. According to my calculations, if you were to lease a 2002 Jeep Grand Cherokee Laredo 4WD (MSRP: $28,935 / cap cost: $23,575) in either DaimlerChrysler's Philadelphia or Pittsburgh zone right now for 3 years with 15,000 miles per, you should have a pre-tax zero down monthly lease payment of right around $390 or so. The 12,000 miles per year payment for an identical lease would drop to around $383. It is not surprising that the numbers that the lease calculator on a manufacturers' Web site were not all that accurate, but they usually tend to err on the high side. For whatever reason, these lease calculators never seem to take the latest incentives programs into account, but rather use an average interest rate when calculating payments. If the CFC lease calculator did not ask you for your zip code, there is no possible way that it could be accurate because the programs for this truck vary significantly from area to area.

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  • CarMan@EdmundsCarMan@Edmunds Member Posts: 38,514
    I am not sure why the dealership that you are working with quoted you a different residual value than the one that I posted earlier, mspdriver. I just double checked General Motors Acceptance Corp.'s residual values for the 2002 GMC Envoy and here is what I found. The unsupported 3 year 15,000 miles per residuals for this truck are 41% for 2WD and 44% for 4WD models. The supported 3 year 15,000 miles per GMAC residual value for both 2WD & 4WD Envoy models is 48%. The 12,000 miles per year residuals would be 3% higher than the ones that I just mentioned. The only thing that I can think of that would lower this truck's residuals below 48% for a 3 yr. 15k lease would be if the specific truck that you are interested in is equipped with some sort of conversion package. Other than that the information above is definitely correct and should be exactly the same across the country. Of course, banks other than GMAC will likely have different residual values for this model. If for some reason the dealership that you are working with is coming up with higher monthly lease payments for this truck than you are calculating on your own, you can always comparison shop at a couple of other dealerships in your area to see if one of them will give you the deal that you are looking for. By the way, I just calculated a sample lease payment on the truck that you are looking at if you are interested. According to my calculations, if you were to lease a 2002 GMC Envoy (MSRP: $37,825 / cap cost: $32,907) through GMAC right now for 3 years with 15,000 miles per, the pre-tax, zero down monthly lease payment should be right around $548. The 12,000 miles per year payment for an otherwise identical lease would fall to around $520 or so.

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  • CarMan@EdmundsCarMan@Edmunds Member Posts: 38,514
    Hi jbryson1. I don't know exactly how the program that you mentioned works. However, many employee purchase programs only allow consumers to lease their vehicles through the manufacturer's captive finance company. This may or may not be the case with DaimlerChrysler right now, but it is definitely something that you should be aware of. Chrysler Financial's lease program is not really that great on many vehicles, so it definitely would not surprise me if another bank was able to provide you with a lower payment on the model that you are interested in. Unfortunately, there are so many banks out there that have lease programs that it is next to impossible for a consumer to shop around and find the best lease deal from an independent bank on their own. Many dealerships have computer systems that allow them to query all of the available lease programs that are being offered on a given car or truck at a given time by banks across the country. This is usually the best way to find out if a captive finance company's lease program can be beaten.

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  • tgif888tgif888 Member Posts: 351
    Car_man,

    From the below info. on a 03TL Type S with navigation system. Can you tell me the resdiual and money factor? Your Results

    Your Estimated Monthly Payment is shown below.
    LEASE

    2003 TL
    48 Months Term
    12,000 Annual Mileage

    $452.26
    *Lease Summary: Required Refundable Security Deposit $475.00, 1st Monthly Payment $452.26, Capitalized Cost Reduction $0.00 to equal an estimate total of $927.26 due at lease signing

    I got this from eacura.com

    Thanks.
  • CarMan@EdmundsCarMan@Edmunds Member Posts: 38,514
    Hi tgif888. I am surprised that eAcura was able to estimate a lease payment on the 2003 TL for you already. Acura just officially released pricing on the 2003 TL two days ago. To the best of my knowledge, American Honda Finance Corp. has not published residual values for this car yet. If they have come up with them, they have not been widely distributed to their dealer body yet. The dealers who I spoke with don't expect to get any 2003 TLs until the end of the month. I will keep my ear to the ground and let you know if I hear anything new about this car's lease program. Have a great weekend.

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  • serpico1serpico1 Member Posts: 30
    my cousin is about to lease a 2002 honda accord ex coupe..simple numbers..300.00 per month, no $ down, nothing not one penny..36 month 12,000 miles...is this a good deal..she knows the sales manager at her dealership and says this is a great deal..any thoughts please...thx in advance..
  • tgif888tgif888 Member Posts: 351
    Thanks.

    One question, I had noticed most of the MF and residual value that you quote is from the manufacture own finance company. For example, Toyota (Toyota Finance), Nissan (Nissan Finance) and so on. From my previous experience, all the dealers that I leased car with never use the manufacture finance company at the first place. Unless the manufactuer is subsdized the lease. I'll see the dealer use Bank of America, Banc One, Chase and so on. Is there a reason why the dealer is not using the manufacture own finance?
  • tgif888tgif888 Member Posts: 351
    What is the Cap cost, residual value of the car? I beleive with the above info. It'll save work for Car_man.
  • mf15mf15 Member Posts: 158
    I to am trying to lease a GC deal is good but they are also adding in a lease aquisition fee of $550. I am not happy. We lease Hondas every three years for my wife I do not remember paying any such fee through Honda Finance. Also the reason the chrysler financial lease calculator does not work right is that you have to put in an APR then the lease is even higher.
    Anyhow what can be done about this fee. Called Chrysler financial talked to a supervisor he said they have nothing to do with it, strictly dealer charge. I am in the philly area.
    It works out the deal is about 825 over invoice with this fee rolled into the price.
    MSRP 31595
    Invoice 29,032 from edmunds
    Actual selling price 29845
    cap cost reduction rebate 4000
    cap cost reduction-money down 2800
    total at inception 3308.94
    monthly payment348.57 plus pa tax
    Any suggestions. Thanks Mike
  • im_brentwoodim_brentwood Member Posts: 4,883
    The Bank Fee/Acquisition fee is charged by the leasing company not the dealer. I liken it to points paid on a mortgage.

    They can often be waived by the leasing company if the money factor is increased (Generally a very bad deal). GE Capital used to do this on their used car leases, but it required a .00050 increase in the money factor. On a $20,000 car with, say, a $11,000 residual, that was $558 over 36months plus tax on that. Not a good way to save $495 upfront. But we were leasing a lot of 2yr old Jaguars through them back in 97-00... Ouch!

    It was similar with security deposits as well.

    Also.. you may want to rethink the $2,800 cash down... I'd suggest paying the Bank Fee, First Payment, tags and security upfront only. That's a lot of cash to throw straight at the cap cost (Unlessit includes inceptions.. but even then, shouldnt you be closer to 1,200 just paying inceptions?) particularly if the Jeep has a subvented money factor. If it does, take advantage of the low rate (THis is like putting a huge down payment on a car with, say, 2.9% Financing. At that rate, buy as much of THEIR money as possible).

    Also, see if you can sign the rebate over to the dealer and avoid the sales tax on it. Sometimes you can do this.

    Hope this helps!

    Bill
  • markhamptonmarkhampton Member Posts: 74
    After looking at a lot of cars, I finally settled on a 2002 Cadillac DTS. The incentives were good ($2500), the money factor was good (.00144), and the dealer initially agreed to sell it at invoice. When it came time to discuss the details, however, the price started going up and I decided not to go through with it just yet. They wanted to charge a $595 acquisition fee and a $1012 local and national "advertising" fee. They said these fees are imposed by Cadillac, but I'm not sure if I believe it. Any thoughts on this?
  • im_brentwoodim_brentwood Member Posts: 4,883
    The 595 is legit. That's charged by GMAC.

    The advertisng fee, was it on the actual factory invoice? I was a GM dealer and Ad feesof as much as 2-2.5% were not unheard of. There are ways to tell if its BS or a legitimate item onan invoice.

    Ona $40K++++ Car, that can be a lot.

    If it helps, I have seen advertising charges on invoices for the following cars (Where pricing in relation to invoice is moot)

    BMW Z8
    Lexus SC430
    Corvette ZO6
    NewThunderbird

    etc...

    Bill
  • markhamptonmarkhampton Member Posts: 74
    I haven't seen the actual invoice yet -- so far I have been dealing with the dealer strictly via email. The invoice price she gave me was in line with what was listed on this site.

    If I looked at the invoice, should I expect to see detail information, such as advertising, and the invoice cost of various options?

    Thanks for the information. It really helps!
  • im_brentwoodim_brentwood Member Posts: 4,883
    Yeah.. if you have a question on the ad fee, ask to see the actual invoice (Maybe they could fax it to you).

    If so, scan it and post.. I can read them and can tell you if its legit.

    If I remember right, Advertising on a GM is listed down near the destination fee, and does not have an item for the MSRP (As that would be illegal.. long story).

    Hope this helps, but remember, its gotta be in the same typeface..etc as the rest of the invoice.

    Bill
  • silvercrownsilvercrown Member Posts: 237
    Thanks so much! I know I bombarded you with a flood of questions on all these different cars. As for the Hyundais, my friend was thinking about the top of the line LX models for both the Sonata and Santa Fe (4WD on the Santa Fe). But a money factor of .00399!!! That's 9.58%!! Good grief!! I guess when it comes to Hyundai, you're better off buying outright than leasing. And their prices are low enough. I'd still like the residual values on those LX models, but I think my friend has lost interest in Hyundai already. The prices look very attractive, but the reliability and resale value doesn't exactly inspire loads of confidence. I really can't blame her, especially with alternatives like the Passat and the Altima, my two personal favorites.

    I can't believe that the numbers for the Saturn L series are so low! It sounds like a great deal financially if you're interested in that car. One thing that I find surprising is that the residuals on the Passat are quite a bit higher than for both the Altima and the Saturn L. Very interesting. Another intriguing bit is the numbers for the Jaguar X-type that I read in another post. I don't know what the prices are (mid 30's to 40's maybe?) but that almost sounds "doable" or within reach in the future perhaps.

    As usual, you are a fountain of information and a huge help. Thanks again!!

    SilverCrown
  • CarMan@EdmundsCarMan@Edmunds Member Posts: 38,514
    Good morning, Serpico1. In order for me to give you an accurate assessment of this deal, I need you to provide me with a little more information. Is this car a V6 or 4-cylinder (I suspect it is a 4-cylinder) and what is its full MSRP. The vehicle's capitalized cost would also be helpful, but not a necessity. Looking at this lease without the additional information, I would say that that it certainly seems to be a good deal to me. I know a couple of people who leased EX Accords and none of them were able to get them for less than $300 per month without any money down. They were around $330 or so per month for the EX V6. Granted the programs were different then, but that is the right price range for this car.

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  • CarMan@EdmundsCarMan@Edmunds Member Posts: 38,514
    Good question, tgif888. It is almost impossible for independent banks to beat manufacturers supported lease programs in most instances. However, with the exception of a few banks like American Honda Finance Corp., most captive finance companies have lousy standard lease programs. As a result, unsupported vehicles often have lower monthly payments if they are leased through an independent bank. Many dealerships have computer systems that allow them to search all of the lease programs that are available across the country on a particular vehicle at a given time. Independent banks used to be even more aggressive with their lease programs several years ago prior to the realization that many models' real-life residual values aren't as high as many of them were making them out to be. After that whole shake-up, many independent banks either became much less aggressive with their lease programs or dropped out of the automotive leasing market completely. Still, on vehicles without much support available on them it is often quite possible to beat the lease program being offered by their manufacturers' captive finance companies.

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  • CarMan@EdmundsCarMan@Edmunds Member Posts: 38,514
    Hi mf15. All banks that offer leases on cars and trucks charge lease acquisition fees. These charges, often known as bank fees as well, are usually in the $400 to $600 range. The fee that you were quoted to lease the Grand Cherokee that you are interested in, $550, is the exact fee that Chrysler Financial is charging right now. Even American Honda Finance Corp. charges an acquisition fee on all of the vehicles that it leases. Coincidentally, AHFC's acquisition fee is also currently $550. The person who you spoke with at Chrysler Financial either did not understand your question or was dead wrong. Individual dealerships have nothing to do with vehicles' acquisition fees. This charge comes directly from the bank that you are leasing through, and dealerships have no authority to waive it.

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  • CarMan@EdmundsCarMan@Edmunds Member Posts: 38,514
    You're welcome, silvercrown. Generally speaking, Hyundais and Kias make terrible vehicles to lease. Not only are their money factors generally on the high side, but their residual values are usually very low. Not a good combination in the world of leasing. Right now the 36 month 15,000 miles per year residual values for a 2002 Hyundai Santa Fe LX 4WD and 2002 Sonata LX leased through Hyundai's captive finance company should be 46% and 43%, respectively. The 12,000 miles per year residual values for these cars are 2% higher than that.

    You're right about the X-Type lease program. It is very attractive right now. I just helped a friend lease a 2002 X a few months ago and she loves it. It is a lot of car for the money when you lease.

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  • mf15mf15 Member Posts: 158
    Thanks Carman. But I was talking to a supervisor and he knew exactly what specific fee I was referring to. I guess we are stuck with this fee for added profit. Thanks Mike
  • drbenchdrbench Member Posts: 2
    Hi Carman,

    I scrolled about 100 messages, please forgive if this problem has been addressed previously. I have a 1999 Ford Expedition that I leased through a bank (Key Bank). My term (39 months) is up, I have had the pre-inspection and am ready to turn the car back to the bank (and pay them for mileage ($1000) and dents/dings($800)). Key Bank says I have to drop the car off at one of the local dealers where it will sit for a few weeks and then they'll have someone pick it up to take to auction in another 4-6 weeks after which they'll get back to me on how much I owe them. My problem is that Key Bank is telling me that I will have to keep insurance (I'm still liable) on the car until it is sold at auction, and I have no way of proving what damages occurred prior (or post) to me dropping the car off. 1) When I turn the car in, I do not want to be liable for insurance (e.g. Key Bank should take possession of the car and is responsible for any accidents, injury, damage, etc.)...I should be out of the picture. 2) Would an "Odometer Disclosure Statement" help me out here? 3) When I turn the car in, I want Key Bank to certify the condition of the car so I am not responsible for any additional damage that may occur subsequently. Am I being unreasonable?

    Thanks for your time!
  • CarMan@EdmundsCarMan@Edmunds Member Posts: 38,514
    You're welcome, mf15. I am glad that I was able to help you out.

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  • CarMan@EdmundsCarMan@Edmunds Member Posts: 38,514
    It is interesting that Key told you that you would have keep insurance on your car for several weeks after you drop it off at a dealership. Usually banks allow their lessees to cancel their insurance policy on their vehicle once they have physically dropped it off. What I would personally would do if I was in your situation would be to try to speak with someone else at Key to make sure that you are indeed required to keep coverage on the vehicle until it reaches auction. If this is the unfortunate case, make sure to take several photographs of your truck on the day that you turn it in at the dealership, including one with that day's newspaper in it. This will give you proof of what condition the vehicle was in when you returned it and will protect you should it be damaged on the way to auction.

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  • shanryshanry Member Posts: 1
    Carman: I have several qusestions on a potential lease of a 2002 Dodge Grand Caravan for my wife. I am considering the Sport or ES models with the 3.8 engine, FWD.

    First, are leases available for less the 12,000 miles/year. I only need 8,000 or 10,000/yr.
    How does that impact the residual figuires?

    Next, could you provide me with the residual for a 48 and 60 month lease, for 12,000/yr(or 8,000 or 10,000 if available) Also the money facors?(I know that generally leases this long are not recomended, but I am going to get an extended warranty and Chrysler is offering 7/70,000 powertrain coverage.)

    Last, if I make the entire "depreciation" payment for the lease up front, can I avoid paying interest?
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