Lease Questions - Ask Here

CarMan@Edmunds · February 2002

Good morning, shanry. Many banks allow consumers to lease vehicles with less than 12,000 miles per year allowed. For example, 10,000 miles per year leases are very popular with consumers on leases of European luxury vehicles. In fact, many manufacturers, like BMW and Audi to name two, actually base the sample leases that they advertise on television and in the newspaper on 10,000 miles per year. I have never seen any information on leasing a vehicle through Chrysler Financial with less than 12,000 miles per year, but that does not necessarily mean that they do not allow consumers to lease vehicles with this few miles. In order to find out whether this is possible, you will need to speak with someone at Chrysler Financial or at a DaimlerChrysler dealership. If you were to lease either of the two 2002 Dodge Grand Caravan models that you mentioned in your post through Chrysler Financial for 48 months, their base lease money factor is currently .00325 (unless you live in their Detroit zone where it is lower). The 48 month 12,000 miles per year residual value for these vans is 34%. I have never seen any 60 month residual values being offered by Chrysler Financial and do not believe that they offer leases which are that long. If you wish to lease this van for longer than 48 months or with less than 12,000 miles per year, you may be better off doing so through a bank other than Chrysler Financial. Quite honestly, they current lease program on this model is not that great. When calculating the lease payment for the van that you are interested in, remember that Chrysler is offering lease cash on the 2002 Caravan right now. Specifically, they have $2,600 lease cash on the 2002 Grand Caravan ES and $4,000 on the 2002 Caravan Sport.

Many banks do allow their consumers to pay for the entire lease of a vehicle in advance in exchange for a break in the interest rate that they are being charged. Unfortunately, no banks will waive their interest charges completely on one pay leases. Specifically with Chrysler Financial, making all of your lease payments on a 48 month lease in advance will provide you with a .00210 reduction in their normal lease money factor.

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im_brentwood · February 2002

I know that PNC Bank, if they still do leasing, does offer a 10k/year program. However, it was generally only 1 point or so higher than their 12k/year program.

Not the greatest deal when you think about it...

They generally have decent rates, and their residuals will be in line with ALG's. How that compares to Chrysler's program, I have no idea.

Worth a shot if you're in the Northeast 1/4 of the Country..

Bill

drbench · February 2002

Thanks Carman! I will take lot's of pictures.

mordrid52 · February 2002

Several questions. First, what is the lease info for a 2002 RSX base model (manual, no leather) on a 36 month lease with 12 and 15k miles?

Second, does anyone know if Acura has offered any lease/finance specials on the RSX since it came out? According to their website, the only special they have right now is a lease special on the RL.

Last, I was wondering if people think leasing is a viable alternative vs financing for my situation. I currently put about 8-10,000 miles on my car per year. Most of the cars I would want to "step up to" after an RSX come out the next year or two, so the end of a 3 year lease would be right about when I would be really looking at getting a new car (I would want to give the cars a model year or two to let the hype die and get any first-run bugs worked out). I would not want to keep the RSX when I got a new car. Thanks.

pdxrover · February 2002

Hi Carman -
This is both my first visit and first posting to the Town Hall and I apologize in advance if this subject has been addressed before. I am nearing the end of the lease on my 1998 Subaru Outback Sport (8 months away). We're currently looking at 3 new vehicles and attempting to decide on one in the coming months (Land Rover Discovery, Volvo Cross Country, & Subaru Outback VDC). We would like to lease the new vehicle as well, but we're wondering what trading in the leased Subaru will be like, or how it will be treated at the Land Rover or Volvo dealerships. The current lease is closed-end with a guaranteed value of $10,134 as stated in the contract. Mileage is fine and body work is fine - a clean car. Will we get any trade in value per se, or are we simply giving them a car which they'll have to buy from Subaru? While I don't think we're upside down, I don't think we're over the guaranteed value either. Certainly, if anyone else has had a similar experience, please share. Thanks!

multiplechoice · February 2002

Hi car_man, can you help me with money factors and residuals on the Mercedes C32? I would guess that MB would only offer the standard rates for this vehicle. 36 mo, 15K/yr. Thanks.

greg_x · February 2002

Car_man -

Thanks in advance for all the help you provide to this board.

I got a call from an Audi salesperson yesterday (2/15) saying they just released special leasing incentives. Can you tell me what these are?

I'm specifically looking at an A6 2.7T

Thanks, greg

im_brentwood · February 2002

Well,

Its really like any other vehicle that has a payoff on it.

You compare the vehicle's actual trad-in Value, which on a 40K or so mile clean 1998 Outback Sport, is about $10K or so right now without looking it up.

So you'd need to compare it to your payoff, but I'd like to say one thing upfront... You will almost certainly have a higher payoff than your vehicle's actual wholesale value. You may want to wait till October.

Bill

hilltop33 · February 2002

2002 Saab 9-3 SE Premium Package

Cap cost - 28226
Cash reduction - 2000
Lease term - 36
Lease factor - .00049
Residual - 47%
15k miles per year
Payment - $356 a month

I haven't done any negotiating yet, but I wanted to find out what room I might have. I appreciate any suggestions. Thanks ahead. L

haplology · February 2002

Once again - question on the X5.

Do you have the MF and residual on a 42 month lease on the X5 and on a 39 month lease? Although the X5 has free maintenance for 36 months, the warranty is for 48 months. Is there much of a disadvantage leasing for 42 months? I thought that might even be better because then I would be looking for a new car in the fall when new model years are released and residuals would probably he highest. Does that make sense?

Thanks for your help.

CarMan@Edmunds · February 2002

Hi Mordrid52. Acura has not offered any sort of lease, financing, or cash support on the 2002 RSX since it was introduced. As a result, if you were to lease one through Acura, you would have to use their standard lease money factors. Fortunately, their standard factors aren't that bad. If you were to lease a 2002 Acura RSX through American Honda Finance Corp. this month for 3 years with 15,000 miles per, the base lease money factor and residual value should be .00240 and 59%, respectively. The 12,000 miles per year residual value should be 62%. Although I do not know the 10,000 miles per year residual values for this car, you may be able to lease it through AHFC with that little mileage. You will need to check with your dealership to find out for certain. If you can, I don't see anything wrong with leasing this particular car in your situation.

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CarMan@Edmunds · February 2002

Welcome aboard, pdxrover. Generally speaking, when a consumer comes to the end of their lease they have two options. The first is they can have their leased vehicle inspected for any excess mileage and excess wear and tear and return it to the bank that they are leasing it through by dropping it off at the dealership where they got it or any dealership that sells the same brand. This is by far the most common occurrence at lease-end. The second option that lessees have is to exercise their lease-end purchase option and buy their vehicle. This can be done at their predetermined lease-end purchase price, but this number is sometimes negotiable. A spin-off of this second option is to either try to have the dealership that you are working with purchase your car or truck from the bank that you are leasing it through or purchasing it and trying to sell it on your own. Obviously, neither of these two events can occur unless your vehicle is worth significantly more in the real world than its lease-end purchase price. In your specific situation, it sounds to me as though you will probably just need to have your car inspected by the bank that you are leasing it through and then drop it off at the dealership that you got it from and walk away.

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CarMan@Edmunds · February 2002

Good morning, multiplechoice. I would be happy to help you out. If you were to lease a 2002 Mercedes-Benz C32 AMG (nice car BTW) through Mercedes-Benz Credit Corp. this month for 3 years with 15,000 miles per, the base lease money factor and residual value should be .00319 and 61%, respectively.

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CarMan@Edmunds · February 2002

You're welcome, Greg. Your salesperson was telling you the truth. On February 11th, Audi enhanced their special lease program on the 2002 A6 2.7T (I love this car BTW). If you were to lease one this month for up to 39 months, the new base lease money factor should be .00115. I would be happy to give you an idea of what this car's residual values should be like, but first I need to know how long you plan on leasing it for and how many miles per year that you wish to be allowed.

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CarMan@Edmunds · February 2002

Hi hilltop33. I have a feeling that you may be interested in the sample lease payment that Saab is advertising on the 2002 9-3 right now. It will serve as a good reference point for you in your negotiations. Right now Saab is advertising a 36 month lease on the 2002 9-3 SE with a manual transmission and heated seats (MSRP: $29,095) for $299 per month (pre-tax) with $1,999 and 12,000 miles per year.

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CarMan@Edmunds · February 2002

Hi again haplology. The 36 month and 42 month BMW Financial Services base lease money factors for the 2002 X5 3.0L were recently reduced to .00205. The 15,000 miles per year residual values for these two terms are currently 63% and 60%, respectively. Other than the fact that it is a long time to be committed to one vehicle, I personally don't see anything terribly wrong with leasing one for 42 months instead of the more common 36 month term. Vehicles' residual values certainly are the highest at the beginning of the model year, so if you were to lease a brand new model that normally would not have much in the way of lease support at the beginning of the model year it certainly would be to your advantage.

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hilltop33 · February 2002

I know about the $299 lease and that was why I went and looked at the car. But I wanted to get 15k miles a year, so the dealership offered me the premium package with free maintenance for 3 years and 15k. What I am trying to figure out is if the Cap Cost for this package is good at $28226 or if you think I can negotiate down even more? This cost is already $500 below invoice, with the premium package, but I know the restyled 2003 Saabs are coming in the fall and they seem to have a lot of inventory left right now. I was offered any color with no extra charge for metallic paint.

What do you think I should aim for in negotiating down the cap cost? Or is this the best I am going to do?

Thanks for your advice. L

dsinsocal · February 2002

Car_man:

I'm planning to lease a 325ci Coupe and I'm looking for the lease rate and residual for this model. I plan on going with a 36-month 12,000 mile plan.

Also, Do you have the lease rate for level-2 financing as well, in case we don't qualify for their best lease rate?

I've never had any problems with Chevy, Mitsubishi, Mazda or Volkswagen ... but I imagine that BMW probably has stricter standards.

cupholder1 · February 2002

Car Man:

Could you please provide lease numbers on a '02 Honda CRV AWD for 36/48 months/15k miles per year.

Thanks.

remy725 · February 2002

Hi Car Man

Can you please furnish me with the MF & Residuals for the 2002 MB 4Matic Wagon 36M & 39M / 12k & 15k p/y?

Thanks

greg_x · February 2002

Car_man,

Thanks for the lease factor on the 2.7T. I would be interested in the residuals on 36 or 39 month leases at 12,000 miles/ year.

Thanks

jim52 · February 2002

Hi Carman. Could you let me know the residual % and MF on 39 and 42 month leases for a 2002 530 at 10k miles per year? Also, do you have any idea yet what will happen to money factors and residuals in March?

haplology · February 2002

Are the following fees normal to pay upfront to start a lease? And are these the correct amounts? [2002 BMW X5 3.0 AWD]

1. Doc Fee $45
2. Acq Fee $625
3. 1st Yr Fees $360

In addition to first month and security deposit?

Thanks.

CarMan@Edmunds · February 2002

Hilltop33, if you are able to get the dealership that you are working with to subtract the $2,000 lease cash that is currently available on the 2002 9-3 and then lease it to you for $500 below invoice I think that you are getting an excellent deal and probably can not get a price that's much lower. However, if you are at $500 below invoice taking the cash support into account, then the price that you have been quoted is really equivalent to $1,500 over invoice and I think that you can do better.

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CarMan@Edmunds · February 2002

Good morning, dsinsocal. If you were to lease a 2002 BMW 325Ci through BMW Financial Services this month for 3 years with 12,000 miles per the base lease money factor and residual value should be .00220 and 62%, respectively. I do not know what the lease money factors would be for other credit tiers through this particular bank through. If you have never had any problems with any of the other banks that you mentioned in your post and your credit situation has not changed then I personally don't foresee you having any difficulty qualifying for the aforementioned lease program.

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CarMan@Edmunds · February 2002

Hi again cupholder1. As I am sure you are well aware, the CR-V has been very popular since Honda redesigned it. As a result, they have not felt the need to provide any support on it. So if you were to lease one through American Honda Finance Corp. right now, you would have to use their standard lease money factors. The 3 year 15,000 miles per AHFC base lease money factor and residual value for the 2002 CR-V EX 4WD should currently be .00240 and 62%, respectively. The 4 year numbers for an otherwise identical lease should be .00240 and 55%. Please let me know if you are interested in the LX instead of the EX.

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CarMan@Edmunds · February 2002

Hello remy725. Here is the information that you are looking for. If you were to lease a 2002 Mercedes-Benz E320S/4 (strange that they call the Wagon S and the Sedan W isn't it) through MBCC for 36 months with 15,000 miles per year right now the base lease money factor and residual value should be .00252 and 59%. The 12,000 miles per year residual value for this car would increase to 61%. I have not seen the 39 month lease parameters for MBCC, but suspect that if you were to lease this car through them for that term that the money factor would be the same and the residual value perhaps a percentage point or two less than the 36 month term.

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CarMan@Edmunds · February 2002

No problem, greg_x. The Audi Financial Services residual values for the 2002 A6 2.7T leased with 12,000 miles per year for 36 and 39 months should be 56% and 54%, respectively.

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CarMan@Edmunds · February 2002

Hi jim52. If you were to lease a 2002 BMW 530i through BMW Financial Services this month for 42 months with 10,000 miles per year, the base lease money factor and residual value should be .00205 and 57%. I do not think that BMW FS published 39 month lease information for this car this month, but if you would like information on a 36 month lease of one please let me know. As far as their March program goes, it is very difficult to predict what a manufacturer will do with their future incentives programs with 100% accuracy. I personally suspect that their March program will be very similar to the program that they are currently running, but it is impossible to say for certain at this point.

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CarMan@Edmunds · February 2002

Haplology, when one leases a new car or truck they will typically have to pay a security deposit, an acquisition fee, and their vehicle's first month's payment at signing. BMW's current base acquisition fee is $525. Dealerships often have the ability to mark up a vehicle's base acquisition fee in order to bake additional profit into a deal. It looks to me as though the dealership that you are leasing through is marking up the base BMW FS acquisition fee $100. The Doc Fee sounds like a charge that the dealership themselves is tacking onto your deal rather than something that is required by BMW FS. Lastly, I have no idea what "1st Yr Fees $360" means and have never seen anyone charged this sort of fee on a lease.

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sballard · February 2002

Hi Car Man,

I had asked you some questions earlier about a lease on a Grand Cherokee.
I decided I could get more car for the money with a Pathfinder. The Pathfinder
has the Popular Package and Sunroof package, plus a few extras. MSRP is
$31,234. By the way, I'm located in Lancaster Pennsylvania.

Here is the deal I've negotiated, with $1975 out of pocket let me know
what you think.

Negotiated Price of Car: 28,281
Acquisition Fee: $450
Cost Reduction: $1345

Adjusted Capitalized Cost: $27,386
Residual Value: $16,866.36

Terms: 39 Months/39,000 Miles

Base Payment: 357.80/Month
Tax: 32.30/Month

Total Payment: 390.00/Month

Thanks...Shawn

dsinsocal · February 2002

Thanks for the info Car_man!

The numbers look so good that I'm thinking of upgrading to the 330 Coupe. Do the same rates and residuals apply?

Also, one last thing, are residual values determined by MSRP or by the final negotiated Cap Cost?

Thanks again,

David

haplology · February 2002

Is it possible that first year fees are title and license or something?

Thanks.

abrecher · February 2002

Hi Car_man:

I am trying to get my numbers together for a lease on the new 2003 Acura 3.2TL, and I was hoping you could help me with a few numbers.

I am looking for the Invoice price for the 3.2TL w/navi, as well as residuals and money factor for 36, 39, and 42 months. Can you help?

Thank you.

CarMan@Edmunds · February 2002

Shawn, I think that I would personally prefer the Nissan Pathfinder over the Jeep Grand Cherokee as well. I just calculated a sample lease payment based upon the truck that you are interested in. According to my calculations, if you were to lease a 2002 Nissan Pathfinder SE 4x4 through Nissan Motor Acceptance Corp. (MSRP: $31,234 and Cap Cost: $27,386) for 39 months with 12,000 miles per year using their base lease money factor you should have a zero down pre-tax monthly lease payment of right around $344. The payment that you were quoted sounds slightly on the high side to me. Also, remember that Nissan has $1,000 lease cash available on the 2002 Pathfinder right now that will increase your ability to negotiate a good deal.

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CarMan@Edmunds · February 2002

Hi again, David. Here is the new information that you are looking for. If you were to lease a 2002 BMW 330Ci through BMW Financial Services prior to the end of the month for 3 years with 12,000 miles per, the base lease money factor and residual value should be .00205 and 62%, respectively. In answer to your second question, vehicles' residual values are based upon a percentage of their full MSRPs.

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CarMan@Edmunds · February 2002

It certainly is possible, haplology. You should ask the dealership that you are working with for an explanation of exactly what this fee is.

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CarMan@Edmunds · February 2002

Good morning, abrecher. It is safe to assume that Acura is not providing any sort of lease money factor support on the 2003 TL. So if you were to lease one through American Honda Finance Corp. for any term between 36 and 48 months, you would have to use their base standard lease money factor of .00240. I actually have not seen the residual values for the 2003 Acura TL yet. Their current lease program is only scheduled to run through February 28th. I suspect that they will publish new numbers for this car then anyhow. Please feel free to check back with me early next month and I should be able to give you an idea of what this car's new lease program is like. Talk to you then.

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sballard · February 2002

Thanks Car Man.

I guess I should have waited for you response before signing on
the dotted line. I went ahead and accepted the deal. I guess its
to late now. They never mentioned the $1000 lease cash. Even
without that, I thought their number was a little high. What is the
money factor they should have used? Oh well, live and learn.

Thanks...Shawn

dsinsocal · February 2002

Thanks Car_man!

Those numbers are fantastic. Is there anywhere that I can get hard evidence that this money factor is true. I can't believe the dealers admitting to it's existence. The BMW website still appears to be using the .00260 factor on it's "Build Your BMW" feature.

Not only do I like to have all of my ducks in a row before stepping into the dealership, but I like to have them in print whenever possible as well.

Thanks again for your help. This is truly a great service.

David

hungrywhale · February 2002

Do you have the money factor and residuals for an Audi TT 225 Quattro coupe for a 36 or 39 month lease (whichever is better) at 12k per year and 15k per year?

dsinsocal · February 2002

Hi Car_man. I’m a little confused, so hopefully you can help me out.

After reading your replies I was under the impression that BMW Financial Services was the entity setting these lease rates. I called BMW FS today and asked them for verification of their current lease rates. According to the customer service rep I spoke to, BMW FS does not set the rates, they only process the numbers that are given to them by the dealerships.

He told me that each dealership could have completely different numbers depending on geography, sales volume or relationship with the “manufacturer”.

He directed me to their website and told me the “build your own” feature did a pretty good job at estimating national average lease rates, but what I would find at my local dealer might typically be a little higher than that used on the webpage.

If this is true, then how can I check the honesty of a dealer, short of driving all around town and negotiating with every single one of them?

There is a HUGE difference between the rate you gave me on the 330 coupe this morning (.00205) and the rate which is currently being used on the BMW website (.00260)… and the rep tells me to expect an even higher number than that???

We’re talking about a difference of at least $30 every month! How can I be sure to get the .00205 rate that you quoted???

miiames · February 2002

I have gotten a lease price on a 2002 Avalanche for $494.00, 36 month, 12K per year. The truck is being purchased at GMS price, $28500.Rebate of $2002 plus $750 more lease loyalty. I am rolling $1100 negative equity into the payment. Fees will be $800, no other money down. Should I be questioning anything in this deal? Does the dealer have different money rates or residuals to choose from.

CarMan@Edmunds · February 2002

Don't worry about it too much, Shawn. Although you probably could have gotten a slightly lower monthly lease payment your deal was still not that bad. As far as Nissan Motor Acceptance Corp.'s base lease money factor for the 2002 Pathfinder SE goes, through the end of the month is should be .00184 for 39 months. Enjoy your new truck!

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CarMan@Edmunds · February 2002

Your welcome, David. You're right BMW's lease program is fairly attractive right now. I am positive that the numbers that I provided you with are correct, but do not know of any place that you can obtain physical evidence that this is the case. If the first BMW dealership that you work with is not willing to let you use the base lease program for this car, you can always comparison shop at a couple of other dealerships. If you shop around, there is a good chance that you will be able to find one that is willing to lease you this car at a fair price and using the base lease program. Good luck.

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CarMan@Edmunds · February 2002

Good morning, hungrywhale. Here's the info that you're looking for. If you were to lease a 2002 Audi TT 225 Quattro Coupe (cool car BTW, one of my favorites) through Audi Financial Services prior to March 5th for 36 months with 15,000 miles per year, the base lease money factor and residual value should be .00225 and 60%, respectively. The 12,000 miles per year residual for this term is 62%. The 39 month numbers for this car with 15,000 miles per year are .00225 and 58%, respectively. The 12,000 miles per year residual for this term is 60%.

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footie · February 2002

Car_man,
A dear family friend in Savannah is trying to lease a new 530i. Can you help me get her some info:
1) cap cost reduction, money factor and residual for a 530i for 36 months, 15,000 miles per year. Then I can use the spreadsheet to do the math.

She got a horrible quote from the local BMW Center there (Critz) for $7000 up front and $500 per month which seems very out of whack with the BMW deal listed in Edmunds Incentives section.

I probably should send her to shop in Atlanta or Jacksonville, eh?

Thanks

CarMan@Edmunds · February 2002

Dsinsocal, BMW Financial Services, in conjunction with their parent company BMW, does indeed set base lease money factors that their dealerships must use to lease vehicles. Individual dealerships do have the authority to mark-up the Base BMW Financial Services rates in order to bake additional profit into deals, but saying that dealerships set the rates and BMW FS just processes them is dead wrong. I am not surprised that BMW FS would not confirm their base money factors with you, banks never do when consumers call them directly. It is true that many captive finance companies have different money factors depending upon what part of the country they are in, but BMW FS' program is national and does not vary from region to region. Furthermore, I have never seen a supported lease program, standard programs perhaps, that varies depending upon individual dealerships' sales volumes or relationship with their manufacturer. Again, if the first BMW dealership that you work with is not willing to let you use the base lease program for this car, you can always comparison shop at a couple of other dealerships. If you shop around, there is a good chance that you will be able to find one that is willing to lease you this car at a fair price and using the base lease program.

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CarMan@Edmunds · February 2002

Hi miiames. If you are getting the GMS price on this truck, you are likely getting a good deal on the lease. The only sort of lease support that is available on the 2002 Avalanche right now is the $2,002 lease cash that you are already aware of and a so so lease rate of 6.5%. You already know that you are getting a good price and that they are using the lease cash with your deal, so just double check the lease rate that they are using on your deal and you should be good to go.

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sballard · February 2002

Thanks Car Man! I really am enjoying the new Pathfinder. I agree
that it was a much better choice than the Grand Cherokee Laredo.
Especially since the best I could get the jeep dealer to do was a
base model Laredo for $400/month for 39 months with $1995 due
at signing. I think the Pathfinder is a lot more truck for the
money.

Thanks Again...Shawn

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