Perhaps we can let the readers decide who is believeable and who is not. There is an issue of credibility here and that comes from providing a service to others thru the exchange of knowledge.
Sorry I couldn't get back earlier. I've been swamped both at work and home. I've never used Blue Coral. I have used their car wash in the past without complaint.
To me the real issue for vinyl cleaners is cost. If it has inexpensive ingredients cracking can occur. The more expensive dressings use ingredients that help, rather than harm. I've become a real convert of the more expensive products. I'd rather pay a little more for care than to have to do another repair.
actually it was Blue Magic, not Blue Coral, that I was asking you about - their leather and vinyl cleaner is very good - it costs about $5 a bottle...but thanks for your reply
I have to wax a persons ford exployer(white) tommarow and i wanted to no what kind of wax is the best but cheap. Alot of people say to buy zymbol, is that a good wax?
I don't think there's any "best wax." There's a big tradeoff between several factors:
1) Looks 2) Longevity 3) Cost 4) Ease of application 5) How well it preserves the paint
There are good examples of each of these.
I use the cheap zymol($8). It does well in all of the areas except longevity, i think. I got it for $8 at costco. Its MSRP is $19.95, and i'd never pay that for it. If you don't mind waxing once ever y month or two, i think it's good. There are good and bad sides to this. You will keep contaminants off the paint more with a cleaner wax, but you will be rubbing it more too, and it will be more work ( although initial applications are easy ).
I have tried nu-finish($5) and it does seem to last six months, longer than anything else i have tried, but i worry about using it, because i did a section of the paint with no clearcoat, and it took up quite a bit of the paint. I did part of the inside of the engine bay. and the rag turned blue. I had a similar experience on a red car with no clearcoat--the rag turned completely red.
The meguairs stuff generally ($4-$15) i have thought well of, but i think it's harder to use than others, and it stains the black trim and gets caught in cracks easily, etc.
The basic 3m liquid wax seemed to have pretty good longevity, but it looked smeary after i took it off, and it dried very hard.
I hear good things about some of the expensive waxes, but in my mind, with things like wax, paying double seems to only net you a 5% improvement or so. The difference between a $5 and a $100 bottle might be only a 30% improvement in these factors... maybe... I think with equal attention and efffort you will NOT see a BIG difference in the results of the $5 and $100 bottle.
I think there is no replacement for using a decent wax, the proper techniques, and some elbow grease.
I have tried 4 paste waxes: Blitz, Mother's, Meguiar's cleaner wax, and Griot's Garage - I think the best one is the last, however, it costs about $20 a tin - the Mother's pure carnauba paste wax gets my vote for store-bought waxes - (you can find it at Pep Boys) just be sure not to apply too thick of a coat - I agree with the previous poster - while the more expensive ones are somewhat better - it doesn't warrant paying as much as you'll pay for expensive vs. inexpensive waxes...
Sounds like these folks really are trying to be as fair and objective as possible. Even if you don't agree with their findings, you NEED to give them "props" for trying!
I can't wait to see their results on Polymer Sealants and the Polymer vs. Carnauba Comparo. I believe they rated KLASSE a tick higher than Zaino the first time (before they regrouped & updated their site). I will check in from time to time. I think there whole premis is very cool. Bret, I hope that was articulate enough for Koury, hehe!
Dhanley gives an excellent general analysis. I used Similar Reasoning and concluded that the most expensive applications were not what I wanted to do. That's why I stick with medium priced waxes. Frankly I like being able to wax 2-4 times a year. I learn a lot about the mechanical condition as well.
I have found that any all in one produt that advertizes itself as a cleaner/wax, or polish/wax is not nearly as durable as a pure wax. Zymol and Meguiar's Gold class are cleaner waxes. Good shine, much lower on durability.
If you really want to take care of the finish use the clay bar, glaze and then put on a good wax of choice.
It is a wax only. they do have the cleaner wax but Gold Class is not it. I still have a container on the shelf, don't use it much, worked okay but found that # 26 nad Collinite gave a much better result as well as the Z product.
I've never tried Collinite. Does it come off any easier than #26? I really like the way #26 beads. Also, I have noticed that Gold Class has a cleaning effect on the paint, at least compared to #26. However, Gold Class is supposed to be just a wax. It will take out water spots and other marks, where #26 does not (in my experience). I had to be really careful to make sure the paint was spotless before applying #26. It just formed a protective coating over the water spots. Gold Class removed them. So, I ask you, what's up with that?
It's my understanding that Gold Class does have a small amount of chemical cleaner in it. It is part of the formulation that provides the high gloss of GC.
By comparison, #26 is a protectant only - no cleaner or polish. It won't remove water spots or anything like that. You'll need to use #7 Show Car Glaze or Medallion cleaner or 3M's Imperial Hand Glaze, something to remove spots, polish the paint, and leave a high gloss for the #26 to protect.
Even Meguiar's Medallion has some chemical cleaner in it. Medallion is designed to last a long time (it's mostly a polymer product) whereas GC is designed to provide high gloss and reflectivity.
Yep, Austria. They don't have a Scottish flag so I'll use Austria until TH can allow me to give props to my family heritage.
Why Austria? Some family lineage goes there but I was also thinking of the last episode of "Band of Brothers" when they were in Zell Am See, Austria. An incredible place. Perfect place to drive your Porsche.
It's a good product, and at least locally, it is hte least expensive one, including the lubricant. I just bought some for $10.00. Mother's cost twice that.
It's a natural clay so it is a little heavier.
The real trick to not leaving a residue is to spray a good coat of lubricant on the surface, and on the bar itself before rubbing. Spray more if even a slight stickiness is felt. Mrdetailer's posts in this forum have detailed discussions on this.
My bottle says that it "adds polishing oils" So it's a cleaner wax. That's why it will clean off water spots where #26 will not. I use Quick Detailer before using #26 if there are waterspots on the surface.
I like the shine of Gold Class, but #26 lasted 7 months and counting (can't test anymore for durability when I have to get ready for winter). Gold Class only kept up excellent beading for 3 months and had to be redone.
Recently used on Mother-in-Law's Green Honda Civic (too lazy to do full wax job). Was done in less than 15 minutes and the car instantly looked great. My Mother-in-Law fell in love with me as she never saw the car look so good.
Needless to say, I would recommend this product for a dress up date only as the durability is not even close to a real wax job. Has anyone else used?
If the Collinite comes off easier than Meguire's #26, I'll try it. I heard that it has superior water-beading characteristics, and I really like to see water beading on my car. Can you get it anywhere? I don't think I've seen it at Pep Boys.
I have not seen any Collinite locally or in any auto places. Usually the salesperson will look at you kind of funny and say he has never heard of Collinite. I plan on trying the #845.
Which Collinite? I was going to try #476s Super Doublecoat. By the way, I'm not sure if I made myself clear in previous posts. When I say Meguire's #26 is hard to remove, I mean the paste. I've never tried the liquid.
I felt they were both relatively easy to remove. I don't have much experience though with other brands, except for 3M Perfect-It which removes real easy. On the other hand I don't believe it holds up as well.
Thinking of buying an orbital (or static) polisher. My fingers just get too tired rubbing wax on by hand. Does anyone have any suggestions? price range? brand? Or is there anyone who'd recommend against using one?
Larry - No one asked for my comments - that's part of the beauty with a forum like this. It was meant as a lighthearted post as evidenced by my emoticon at the end. My goal was not to start trouble with anyone or to put down the products they use. I directed my post to you and bretfraz since the two of you had mentioned it. I take the time to read this topic to add to my capabilities with regards to the care and upkeep of my vehicles just as you read the other for the same purpose I presume.
I also took the time to read the information on Blackfire and it sounds very interesting as well as very familiar. I sincerely hope that whoever decides to try it will like it. It's description of capabilities, application procedures, and method of purchase (ie no retail) was funny in that it hit close to home and IMO it would be ironic to discuss it in this forum.
As you stated some time ago, I too look forward to a day when we can all get along in one forum. That's why I was suprised that you, one of the more open minded and level headed individuals whose posts are usually worth reading, would come back so strongly.
>"It was meant as a lighthearted post as evidenced by my emotion at the end. My goal was not to start trouble with anyone or to put down the products they use. I directed my post to you and bretfraz since the two of you had mentioned it."<
Well, I misunderstood the tone of your post, my bad. I deleted my post. I guess, I'll switch to de-cafeinated!
I have been using my newly aquired buffer. Basically I wipe off the wax by hand and then use the wool bonnet to buff. Mu question: Is this an O.K. technique? How often do I need to wash the wool bonnet? Should I use another type of bonnet material?
Mine is 9 inches (Sears) and it is very manageable for me. I do like the speed variability, but don't like the size initially. What's the advantage of the smaller size?
In my view the smaller bonnet is more maneuverable in tight spots. Also I think that a larger bonnet on a high-torque buffer may make it too heavy. Just a guess on my part.
In the long run the swept area of the bonnet doesn't make a difference. It's all in how you use it and what products are used. There have been times where I wish I had a high speed buffer but my Sears 11" has done the job just fine. I have a 9" Chamberlain somewhere (at my parent's house, I think) and that works well too.
If it's workin' for ya, Mr. D, just keep on keepin' on.
When I was a young 'un, buffers were best left in the hands of the pros - it was my understanding that one could "burn" the paint if you left the buffer in one spot for too long. Guess that's why I've been hestiant to ever try one...
I just washed and waxed my black '01 LX Protege and there are streaks from the wax all over the place! Anybody know how to remove/avoid these streaks?? Thanks in advance.
I do have an old 6" or so model I bought for about $40 that was supposed to be a random orbit polisher. The problem is that it stops spinning as soon as it touches the paint...very weak. So I abandoned it. Do these new ones have more power? and can you vary the speed on any of them?
Streaks are caused by too much product applied or application in a real high humidity environment.
Take a spray bottle filled with water and spray & wipe down your car. A quick detailer product will also work. This should "cure" the wax and the streaks should disappear.
Check the Sears link above. I think the Orbital buvvers I have seen run at 2500 rpm. I have a really cheap one from Harbor Freight ($30) that I bought just to try one.
Well, the goal should be to apply the correct product using the correct techniques to obtain the desired results.
It's always best to use a product sparingly. If the results aren't what you expected you can apply a second coat. If you're still not getting the results you want then something is amiss - wrong product, incorrect usage, poor paint prep, unrealistic expectations, something.
Too much product makes the job harder. So next time try applying it thinly and evenly. Let it dry the proper amount of time. Remove and review the results. Apply another coat and review those reuslts. As you apply coats the job should get easier and go quicker. Use a little water or a quick detailer to finish off the job.
I suggest experimenting with different products and/or techniques until you find somethig that works for you. For example, divide your hood in half and wax one side with lateral motion (back and forth) and the other side with the classic circular motion. On another panel, apply a couple thin coats of your favorite product. Then try a thicker coat on yet another panel. Do this all over your car. Eventually you'll come across a combo you like. I've been doing this for many years; it's fun using my car as a product tester.
My 9 inch is very reliable even after dropping it numerous time. It's hard to remember how slippery the surface is once it's been waxed.
Crevices. If it's the same color I keep the buffer away and do that area by hand with the same bonnet after I used on the the flat areas. If it's a rubberized black trim, before I apply the wax, I use either Black Magic Tire trim -- the extra thick kind that is not a spray bottle --- or Meguiars Trim Finish. The wax just doesn't stick to this pretreated surface.
Nice tip about treating the black trim before waxing! My main reason for using the zymol is it doesn't stain the black trim. If it weren't for that, i'd use something that had more longevity.
Hey Bret, I need your help. I remembered you once posted some info about HOW to make posted words BOLD or italicized, etc. Can you re post that link? Thank you in advance!
Comments
To me the real issue for vinyl cleaners is cost. If it has inexpensive ingredients cracking can occur. The more expensive dressings use ingredients that help, rather than harm. I've become a real convert of the more expensive products. I'd rather pay a little more for care than to have to do another repair.
1) Looks
2) Longevity
3) Cost
4) Ease of application
5) How well it preserves the paint
There are good examples of each of these.
I use the cheap zymol($8). It does well in all of the areas except longevity, i think. I got it for $8 at costco. Its MSRP is $19.95, and i'd never pay that for it. If you don't mind waxing once ever y month or two, i think it's good. There are good and bad sides to this. You will keep contaminants off the paint more with a cleaner wax, but you will be rubbing it more too, and it will be more work ( although initial applications are easy ).
I have tried nu-finish($5) and it does seem to last six months, longer than anything else i have tried, but i worry about using it, because i did a section of the paint with no clearcoat, and it took up quite a bit of the paint. I did part of the inside of the engine bay. and the rag turned blue. I had a similar experience on a red car with no clearcoat--the rag turned completely red.
The meguairs stuff generally ($4-$15) i have thought well of, but i think it's harder to use than others, and it stains the black trim and gets caught in cracks easily, etc.
The basic 3m liquid wax seemed to have pretty good longevity, but it looked smeary after i took it off, and it dried very hard.
I hear good things about some of the expensive waxes, but in my mind, with things like wax, paying double seems to only net you a 5% improvement or so. The difference between a $5 and a $100 bottle might be only a 30% improvement in these factors... maybe... I think with equal attention and efffort you will NOT see a BIG difference in the results of the $5 and $100 bottle.
I think there is no replacement for using a decent wax, the proper techniques, and some elbow grease.
dave
Sounds like these folks really are trying to be as fair and objective as possible. Even if you don't agree with their findings, you NEED to give them "props" for trying!
I can't wait to see their results on Polymer Sealants and the Polymer vs. Carnauba Comparo. I believe they rated KLASSE a tick higher than Zaino the first time (before they regrouped & updated their site). I will check in from time to time. I think there whole premis is very cool. Bret, I hope that was articulate enough for Koury, hehe!
-Larry
I have found that any all in one produt that advertizes itself as a cleaner/wax, or polish/wax is not nearly as durable as a pure wax. Zymol and Meguiar's Gold class are cleaner waxes. Good shine, much lower on durability.
If you really want to take care of the finish use the clay bar, glaze and then put on a good wax of choice.
Your results may vary.
By comparison, #26 is a protectant only - no cleaner or polish. It won't remove water spots or anything like that. You'll need to use #7 Show Car Glaze or Medallion cleaner or 3M's Imperial Hand Glaze, something to remove spots, polish the paint, and leave a high gloss for the #26 to protect.
Even Meguiar's Medallion has some chemical cleaner in it. Medallion is designed to last a long time (it's mostly a polymer product) whereas GC is designed to provide high gloss and reflectivity.
Hope this helps.
Thanks in advance.
I'm now using Eagle One's clay bar and am much happier.
Hope this helps.
Why Austria? Some family lineage goes there but I was also thinking of the last episode of "Band of Brothers" when they were in Zell Am See, Austria. An incredible place. Perfect place to drive your Porsche.
It's a natural clay so it is a little heavier.
The real trick to not leaving a residue is to spray a good coat of lubricant on the surface, and on the bar itself before rubbing. Spray more if even a slight stickiness is felt. Mrdetailer's posts in this forum have detailed discussions on this.
I like the shine of Gold Class, but #26 lasted 7 months and counting (can't test anymore for durability when I have to get ready for winter). Gold Class only kept up excellent beading for 3 months and had to be redone.
Thewaxtest.com may show that over time as well.
Needless to say, I would recommend this product for a dress up date only as the durability is not even close to a real wax job. Has anyone else used?
http://stores.yahoo.com/autofanatics1/collinite1.html
I have not seen any Collinite locally or in any auto places. Usually the salesperson will look at you kind of funny and say he has never heard of Collinite. I plan on trying the #845.
Does anyone have any suggestions? price range? brand?
Or is there anyone who'd recommend against using one?
Gonna give Blackfire a try? I'm thinking about it.
- - Bret - -
Thank You,
Larry
Yes, I'm from the dark side and just have a couple of comments:
1. Blackfire sounds a whole lot like the unmentionable stuff used on my planet.
2. Are they going to have to alter the title of this topic on November 14 when Blackfire comes out?? :-)
I also took the time to read the information on Blackfire and it sounds very interesting as well as very familiar. I sincerely hope that whoever decides to try it will like it. It's description of capabilities, application procedures, and method of purchase (ie no retail) was funny in that it hit close to home and IMO it would be ironic to discuss it in this forum.
As you stated some time ago, I too look forward to a day when we can all get along in one forum. That's why I was suprised that you, one of the more open minded and level headed individuals whose posts are usually worth reading, would come back so strongly.
Well, I misunderstood the tone of your post, my bad. I deleted my post. I guess, I'll switch to de-cafeinated!
Respectfully,
Larry
Nah, life can be too boring with decaf. Besides decaf gives me headaches!!
Robert
Thanks
http://www.portercable.com/cgi-bin/products.cgi?method=byid&prod_id=7424
This one is all the rage with the car care fanatics. Make sure you buy an accessory kit that includes a Velcro backing plate and various pads.
Go to http://www.craftsman.com and enter item # 00927098000 into the Search window. It will show their 11" Industrial orbital buffer for $119.99.
I've been using a 20 year old version of this one and it's still running strong.
In my view the smaller bonnet is more maneuverable in tight spots. Also I think that a larger bonnet on a high-torque buffer may make it too heavy. Just a guess on my part.
In the long run the swept area of the bonnet doesn't make a difference. It's all in how you use it and what products are used. There have been times where I wish I had a high speed buffer but my Sears 11" has done the job just fine. I have a 9" Chamberlain somewhere (at my parent's house, I think) and that works well too.
If it's workin' for ya, Mr. D, just keep on keepin' on.
It is nice sometimes, but the wax gets everywhere--on trim, in cracks, etc.
dave
I do have an old 6" or so model I bought for about $40 that was supposed to be a random orbit polisher. The problem is that it stops spinning as soon as it touches the paint...very weak. So I abandoned it.
Do these new ones have more power? and can you vary the speed on any of them?
The Porter Cable does have a speed adjustment dial on the back. Next time you're at Home Depot, have a look at it.
Take a spray bottle filled with water and spray & wipe down your car. A quick detailer product will also work. This should "cure" the wax and the streaks should disappear.
If that doesn't work, rewash the car.
http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/Displayitem.taf?itemnumber=43424
It has .65 amp, about half of the Sears. Mine works fine- of course It won't last too long =cheap.
It's always best to use a product sparingly. If the results aren't what you expected you can apply a second coat. If you're still not getting the results you want then something is amiss - wrong product, incorrect usage, poor paint prep, unrealistic expectations, something.
Too much product makes the job harder. So next time try applying it thinly and evenly. Let it dry the proper amount of time. Remove and review the results. Apply another coat and review those reuslts. As you apply coats the job should get easier and go quicker. Use a little water or a quick detailer to finish off the job.
I suggest experimenting with different products and/or techniques until you find somethig that works for you. For example, divide your hood in half and wax one side with lateral motion (back and forth) and the other side with the classic circular motion. On another panel, apply a couple thin coats of your favorite product. Then try a thicker coat on yet another panel. Do this all over your car. Eventually you'll come across a combo you like. I've been doing this for many years; it's fun using my car as a product tester.
Have fun! Let us know if we can help.
Crevices. If it's the same color I keep the buffer away and do that area by hand with the same bonnet after I used on the the flat areas. If it's a rubberized black trim, before I apply the wax, I use either Black Magic Tire trim -- the extra thick kind that is not a spray bottle --- or Meguiars Trim Finish. The wax just doesn't stick to this pretreated surface.
dave
Thank you in advance!
-Larry