Store Bought Waxes Part II (No Zaino Posts)

lokki · July 2002

I tend to think that I'd want to use something to strip the Klasse as it's an acrylic and not a wax. I also think that while it would weather quickly on the hood, roof, and trunk lid, the sides of the car wouldn't get quite as much sun to break it down.

Also, I've been using car wash 'soaps' that are supposedly designed NOT to remove wax... so....

mbdriver · July 2002

I believe you said you were "jumping the zaino ship" because it was so time consuming. I'm curious about what led you to that conclusion and how you find Klasse.

tntitan · July 2002

similar to Klasse and Zaino but no curing time and easy to apply in hot humid weather. Deeper wet look but some say not as durable as Klasse and Zaino.

kirbstoy · July 2002

I've been trying different car-wash liquids. I've found that they all create lots of suds at the begining but after a few minutes of washing, the suds disappear. I do the wheels first (when they're dry and cool)with a separate pail of water and scrub brush. After the wheels are done,I then mix the pail of clean warm water and car-wash liquid. Thanks

mrdetailer · July 2002

Due to a set of unpredictable circumstances I couldn't one of my cars it's spring cleaning. I thought that 8 months was enough for any Carnauba to wear off. I was wrong. When I washed and used the clay bar a lot of wax appeared.

I actually prefer a Wax Remover like Kleen Strip Wax and Tar remover (Available from an auto paint supply store), or 3M Prep Solvent 70. Then you have a completely clean surface.

britton2 · July 2002

I have bought several different car wash liquids over the past 15 months - I still prefer Eagle One's over the rest - coming in second and third place would have to be Meguiar's Gold Class and Blue Coral's Wash and Wax - do not underestimate Blue Coral - even though it's only $2.50 at Wal-Mart (for a huge container) it works very well and the suds last a long time - just my 2 cents.

protege_fan · July 2002

I maybe reading your post wrong, but are you mixing the water that you used to wash the tires with the water to wash the body of your car?

jimmyj1945 · July 2002

Is one clay bar the same as the rest, or are there some brand(s) that are better?

Thanks for your opinion,

Jim

bretfraz · July 2002

There's been lots of talk in here recently about them. The fact is that there are only 3 or 4 mfr's of body clay in the US so most all of it is the same or very similar. Personally, the only clay I don't like is Meguiar's since its too soft and tends to streak.

Clay Magic available at Auto Zone is very good. So is Mother's clay. Both come from two of the major clay mfrs so pretty much everything else is the same as them. No need to spend megabucks on some fancy clay.

protege_fan · July 2002

I used Mother's clay about 2 weeks ago. It worked excellently even though it was my first time using it. Took me a loooonnnnng time though...I think about 2 hours!! Oh well...hopefully I can get faster.

Too bad I've only seen it in retail stores sold as the kit. I'd just like the bars themselves. IIRC, you can order 3 of them directly from Mother's, but that's too much of a pain in the butt for me.

mpyne · July 2002

actually im thinking about doing an experiment.

my previous car was black and i washed it by hand al least once a week, had about 8 coats of zaino and guess what?? fine scratches all over the paint that would drive me crazy.

so now im thinking about going to automatic (brushless/touchless) carswashes to see if my car will stay nicer longer.

ive heard auto car washes sand blast your paint etc.... but ive seen no proof .

also im talking about the $10 car washes(fresh water) not the $4 crappy shell car washes.

also thinking of getting the car waxed there instead if doing it myself.

i know this sounds crazy but an article i read said hand washing was more dangerous because not enough water pressure, which kind of made sense to me. also they talked about how you spend all weekend detailing your car (ie polsihing scratches etc... not realizing that it was probably washing it by hand that caused i .my new way of thinking is to touch the paint as little as possible.

tntitan · July 2002

That is a scary experiment. I would think that a review of your handwashing and drying technique would serve you better.

bretfraz · July 2002

But, if you've got to do an experiment to prove something to yourself, go for it.

Like TNTITAN said, maybe all you need is just a total rethink of your washing techniques and tools.

But let us know how things turn out. I wish you the best.

pghtiburon · July 2002

A couple of months ago I washed my car with Dawn, used a clay bar, and then applied a coat of Meguiars' Gold Class.

I'm ready to apply another coat of Gold Class...do I need to do something to prepare the paint first? Or is just washing the car and applying the Gold Class fine?

Thanks

mrdetailer · July 2002

The clay bar should only be done twice a year. Just put on the Gold Class. However, if there is some grit after washing, only apply it by hand.

kirbstoy · July 2002

Protege fan! Sorry about the lack of clarity but No! I never mix the wash water for the wheels and the wash water for the car. I use different wash brushes, different detergent and start with new, clean water for the wheels and the car. To: Britton 2, thanks for the hints. I'm going to try your recommendations. Going to be 114* today. I need to retire and move to CA's coast!

mbdriver · July 2002

Thanks for the response. I have to agree with tntitan and bret that your experiment flies in the face of everything I've learned from the experts on Edmunds. And I'm not so sure there's a big difference between many of the $10 and $4 washes -- except price.

I also wouldn't blame the Z product for all the scratches in the black paint. Did you ever try Z-5 or another more abrasive swirl remover?

Unlike many on this board, I'm inherently lazy and would much prefer to go to a car wash than go to the trouble of hand washing my silver 2000 MB. But I bite the bullet and carefully hand wash it every week or so and keep plenty of the polymer on it. So far, so good.

But we're all eager to learn how your experiment works out. Particularly since you're the first enthusiast I know of who has switched BACK from the unmentionable product.

mpyne · July 2002

did anyone read this article and if so you think its legit.

http://www.jaxkarwash.net/safety_of_carwashing.htm

also i probably was more careful than most people when it came to washing my car by hand.

i would do things like only use a wash mitt once(pure sheepskin. only use towels once. buy a new wash bucket every time i washed my car or if i didnt i would wash the bucket with dish soap and dry it before washing the car. also used only made in usa white cotton towels.

so i dont know what i am doing wrong. when i say scratches i mean the one only visible under sunlight. also ive heard that z5 can actually cause these type of scratches. i had about 4 coats of z5 on my car with no improvement on the scratches. so im not 100% that im going to do this but it was kind of frustrating when i would spend about 4 hours detailing my car and it still left scratches.

ps: dont forget that i have a black car so i see 10 time the imperfections compared to pretty much any other color.

britton2 · July 2002

I have a dark colored car and I also have the scratches which are only visible in sunlight - it is very frustrating but I have come to the conclusion that these scratches are inevitable - the clearcoat is so soft that the slightest abrasive will scratch it - I have only washed my car by hand and will continue to do so - I don't know if the do-it-yourself high-pressure car washes will grind dirt into your car's surface as I have read - but I think the concept of the less you rub on your car's paint the better is probably true as far as avoiding scratches goes - makes sense to me - I decided not to try and remove the scratches on my car since one has to wear down the surrounding surface (clearcoat) to do it and I have heard about too many people wearing down their clearcoat over time attempting to remove light scratches - next car I get will be a light colored one - that's for sure.

mpyne · July 2002

i already mentioneed in the corolla board i just purchased a 2003 corolla and they had a silver one and a black one. i told the dealer i wanted the silver one and they said it was sold already so i got the black again (same color as my 2002) i hear everyone say how good hand washing their car is but every auto detailing board i go to has the same type of posts (how do i remove scratches from my car?) so i thought i would try the touchless/brushless approach. also if you get a chance read the article i posted about how auto washing is safer than had washing. to bad there is so much bull on the internet. because i would really like to know if this article is legit or not.

bottgers · July 2002

The best non-Z products I've used so far have been Eagle 1's liquid carnauba, and their paste carnauba. I used the liquid first, as it has cleaners in it. Then I used the paste to seal it. The paste is their longest lasting formula. It lasted longer than any other non-Z product I've used, and it looked as good as any I've used, but it still doesn't last as long as that stuff that starts with a Z that we're not allowed to talk about in here.

alan81 · July 2002

How could anyone believe that article?It was posted by a car wash company.I wash my car with a chinelle wash mit and Meguiars soppy suds,I would like to see there answer to that.Washing a car always depends on the person and what method they are using.

britton2 · July 2002

I just read that article - hmmm, very interesting - I have a cousin who purchased a brand-new black car around the same time I got my car - he only uses the "touchless" automatic car washes (once a week) he told me that his car does not have any scatches - I haven't seen the car since he lives in another state - I guess my 2 main concerns with car wash places are the detergent they use (if it's PH balanced) and the water (if it's recycled) - also, on a dark-colored car like mine if I don't dry it right away I'll have water spots - so instead of just driving off and letting it air-dry a quick dry with a chamois or towel would be necessary - keep us posted on your results with washing your car - good luck.

tntitan · July 2002

Sounds to me like the test used hand washers that were destined to scratch the cars. IMHO you should ditch the towels and get some high quality Microfiber towels for drying (the waffle weave towels are unbelievable). There is a really good chance that your "scratches" were done by the dealer when they prepped your car before you picked it up. If you are really interested in getting this fixed correctly and learning how to properly maintain your car's appearance I would recommend going to www.autopia-carport.com and spend a couple of hours reading. There are some real experts there and the Guide to Detailing e-book for $15 should be your first purchase.

adenn · July 2002

I've spent the last few days reading and re-reading all the posts. Have a burgandy red 01 Alero that I was going to clean/glaze/wax myself. After some thought and calls to local detailers, I am going to have one of the shops do the hard work--for $100 they will wash, strip current wax, glaze and then wax. They use either Meguiars professional or 3M products. I have had people recommend the shop and when I stopped by to talk to them, they had several Mercedes, BMW's and even an older Bentley in the bays. So, I figured that these folks with the $$$ cars use the place, it must be good. Anyway, my thought was then to pick the car up and let the wax they put on sit for a week and then top it once or twice (with a week or so between)with a good paste wax like Meguiar's 26, 3M Showcare, or even Blitz.

This board has been very helpful and appreciate the advice from all.

rjs200240 · July 2002

It's a 1995 car that is never garaged. I use foaming cleaners that are good, but this windshield has much tougher crud. If you run your hand over it, it feels bumpy. You can see lines (scratches maybe?) that follow the path of the wipers, although this appeared mainly when I started using Rain-X. I think that stuff sucks and hampers the wipers. It seems to have left some permanent residue, though, as the windows repel water in an unnatural fashion. I haven't put Rain-X on in like 6 months though. Any suggestions on how to deep clean glass? I thought about a clay bar, but thought I'd see if anyone had glass-specific advice. I remember seeing some compound that came with a powerdrill attachment in a Corvette catalog once, and thought maybe something like that might work. Thanks!

Also, what is that cartopia or autotopia (or something like that) forum's address for car-care? Thanks a lot!

mrdetailer · July 2002

based on what you propose I would use the 3M line of products. While Meguiars #7 show Car glaze, and other glazes are very good, none of them beat 3M's Glazes. If they also use the 3M Perfect-It Show Car Paste it will provide a very durable finish. The Liquid does not have the ASF polymer that greatly increases durability. See the review on

http://properautocare.com/pershowcarpa.html

I've been using it for 2 full years now, and I couldn't agree more with it.

I have been running a topcoat test this summer and on a base of 3M Show Car Paste wax I have put half of the hood on P21S, and half in Meguiars #26. My test vehicle just has the 3M Perfect-It Show Car Paste.

They all look very good. But when combined with high reflectivity and nice wet look, durability, ease of application and removal, as well as cost it's very hard to beat 3M Perfect-It Show Car Wax.

My personal preference is 2 coats of Perfect-It Paste topped by a coat of Meguiars #26. The P21S is easier to apply and remove and has a slightly more liquid appearance, but it's a lot more expensive.

britton2 · July 2002

There's a product - I think it's called Glass Polish - that is made by One Grand - also, Girot's Garage makes some kind of glass polish - haven't used them so I don't know how good they are but this may help - I don't care for Rain-X...(Onegrand.com, autosupermart.com, girotsgarage.com)

protege_fan · July 2002

I've heard of autoglym for cleaning/polishing glass with, but I can't find any of that stuff in retail stores.

IIRC, Bret has experience with Autoglym.

mrdetailer · July 2002

I read the link and have some questions.

1. Who funded the studies? I'll bet it was not hand car washing people.

2. Why does my brothers black car which has never been in anything other than a touchless automatic car wash for 3 years show a lot of scratches and swirl marks?

3. Why does my son's maroon car, which has had nothing but handwashing look flawless?

4. Why don't they mention bug and road tar removal problems?

5. Why don't they mention that it doesn't always remove dirt or rain spots that have dried and then are almost impossible to get out if "wax" is used?

6. Why don't they mention that certain areas of the vehicle (by the wheels) are never cleaned properly?

7. Why is the shine merely good, and not impressive?

8. Why their wax doesn't adequately protect against bird bombs?

9. Why they didn't test it on properly waxed vehicles (both carnauba and polymers)?

Just some thoughts.

protege_fan · July 2002

The touchless wash I went through was terrible. It sprayed what I can only assume was soap everywhere (there were pink, green, and white streams flying everywhere).

Note: This was in the winter when I couldn't hand wash and HAD to spray off my car for fear of corrosion.

Anyway, when I got out, I took a good look at my paint. It was not anywhere near clean. You could still see a film of salt on certain parts of the car.

Also, like I said, who knows what they are spraying on your car. Maybe their soaps are highly alkaline and is stripping any sort of wax protection you had.

And, the wax that they spray on is a joke. It's not applied evenly at all and they also spray it on your windshield and other windows.

IMHO auto car washes are no good unless your car is nearly clean already.

mrdetailer · July 2002

I also noticed the problem with the salt film on my cars.

I am going to make one change however, I'll wash my chenille mitts after each car wash to make sure all of the grit is out.

I've also noticed that car washes places use big brushes for the front and lower sides. That's got to be one of the worst things that can be done.

adenn · July 2002

MrDetailer--thanks for the advice. I spoke with a guy at the shop again and on red cars like mine they like to use Meguiars 26 paste wax. Just their preference for red vehicles. Would it be okay to put the 3M show car paste on top of the Meguiars? I see your preference is the other way around.

Have you used any other 3M products like their vinyl cleaner, car wash or tire dressing? I have been using Meguiars Gold Car Wash/Conditioner for over a year now and sure like it.

On a separate note and to get a bit more advice, I just got my wife a new silver VW Passat (two weeks ago). I was debating on taking time to do this car myself. From what I gathered from the board, I should first wash with Dawn to remove current wax, then use a clay bar (like Meguiars) to take off any contaminants from shipping. I was then considering using 3M's glaze for light cars followed by their show car paste wax. Thoughts?

mrdetailer · July 2002

Mark, now, I'm not going to disagree that Meguiars will look very good on your Red car, it will. But my car looks really good with 3M Perfect-It as the first coat.

Jetting (wet look) will be just as good, but images reflected from the surface are sharper IMO.

I Have a blaze Red Mazda and it looks fabulous with the 3M Paste. I put it on the car over 5 weeks ago and didn't do any toppers on the sides. They still look brand new. 2 weeks ago I did my sons maroon Mazda with the Perfect-It Glaze and Swirl Remover for Dark Colors, topped with the Perfect-It Show Car Paste Wax. It was stunning.

I would use 3M as a first coat because the polymer can't bind to the paint and protect it for a long time if it's not the first coat. I did a test last winter, and it holds up better with 3M as the first coat. It lasted twice as long as the #26. So now I put on 2 coats of Perfect-It then put Meguiars on top.

I use Gold Class car wash and love it on both Meguiars and 3M finishes.

I really have little doubt that 3M's interior products would be good, but Aerospace 303 is what I always use on car dashes because of it's high UV protection, and satin finish.

On your wife's silver car. Using the 3M Perfect-It glaze for light cars is excellent and very mild. However if it's new I would probably consider something milder like P21S' cleaner and surface prep after the new car had been clayed. If it's a couple of years old then you have a great plan.

bretfraz · July 2002

Sorry I missed all the action.

Anyway, regarding glass cleaners, I do use Autoglym's Glass Polish and find it works wonderfully on all types of glass (auto, home, etc). I follow up with Stoners Invisible Glass and a microfiber towel dedicated to glass cleaning and get absolutely perfect vision. No lint, no streaks, no smears, nothing except perfection.

You can see the products I use right here:

http://www.properautocare.com/glass---plastic.html

To remove contaminents from the windshield I've used paint cleaning clay which works great and is super-easy to do. The Autoglym will do the same job for the most part but takes a little rubbing/buffing while the clay just gliiiiides over the glass. Nice thing about the Autoglym is that it will dissolve and remove build up from wiper rubber and old Rain-X or similar products.

Which reminds me...... its probably been a month or so since I've clayed-Autoglymed-Stonerd-microfibered my windshield. Think I'll go to the garage and detail the glass. See y'all later!

protege_fan · July 2002

Actually, here's a problem I'm having. Everytime I clean the glass, either inside or outside the car, I get a haze.

I'm using Eagle-one 20/20.

Immediately after applying it, there is no haze. But after a few days, there is a foggy haze on the glass. It only happens when I clean the glass (ie. it's not the plasticizers degassing). Any ideas what I can do to stop this?

BTW, I use an MF to buff it off and the MF is only for glass.

britton2 · July 2002

I also use Eagle One's 20/20 but I have never had a problem with haze - I use lint-free paper towels and immediately buff it out after wiping it around/off - hope this makes sense - I know alot of people don't advise paper towels but they work great for me -

protege_fan · July 2002

I know what you mean in your application process.

I use paper towels too sometimes....I doubt the ones I'm using are lint free though.

The haze is really irritating...it's like a foggy windshield! GRRR!!!

BTW, I don't understand why you wouldn't be able to use paper towels...there's no way paper can scratch glass.

I can see if you have a film on your glass, but regular automotive glass (I would think!) should be fine.

cdd · July 2002

I just stumbled upon a product called 5 Star Shine which sounds too good to ignore and can't seem to find any discussion about it. Has anyone
heard about it and willing to share your experience on this board?

Best regards,

protege_fan · July 2002

You mean this stuff?

http://www.5starshine.com/

protege_fan · July 2002

I just saw the acronym PTFE...Sorry...I'll take a pass. PTFE is the chemical name for teflon.

Teflon in wax does nothing and IMO, companies that persist in trying to say that it does are selling snake oil.

My $.02

cdd · July 2002

I just stumbled upon a product called 5 Star Shine which sounds too good to ignore and can't seem to find any discussion about it. Has anyone
heard about it and willing to share your experience on this board?

Best regards,

britton2 · July 2002

You may have already tried this - but have you mixed 1/2 white vinegar and 1/2 distilled water to clean your windows? This should cut through and remove any haze - I sometimes use this to remove water spots from glass -

cdd · July 2002

I just stumbled upon a product called 5 Star Shine which sounds too good to ignore and can't seem to find any discussion about it. Has anyone
heard about it and willing to share your experience on this board?

Best regards,

bretfraz · July 2002

Do I have to post my remarks in triplicate like you did with your posts?

I think my momma once said, if it sounds too good to be true, it probably is.

I don't know anyone who's ever used it. If you read the MSDS you'll find formulations that have been around for many years. Nothing new or fancy about the stuff.

Looks to me like another "bathtub chemist" with a website. How 90's. Wait, what year is it again??

mrdetailer · July 2002

I have had many experiences in life where if it appears too good to be true it often is.

If it is that good I'm pretty sure that it is not the PFTE (another word for Teflon). That requires high heat to bond to a surface, over 500 degrees. That of course would cook the paint. So any time issue involves the carrier ingredients, not the PFTE.

Dupont even came out and said that Teflon was not designed for car waxes.

protege_fan · July 2002

Well, I've cleaned the outside of the windshield with vinegar/water....I'd never do that inside! The smell would be terrible!!

Anyway, the haze goes away if I just wipe it away with an MF a few days later, but I don't understand why it happens after a few days.

Here's what I'm doing exactly:
-Wash car
-Dry, etc.
-Use Eagle One 20/20 on window applied by paper
towel
-Wipe window down with dry MF

Then, a few days later, the haze appears. When it comes back, I wipe it with an MF and the haze is gone until I apply the EO 20/20 again.

Is my 20/20 bad?

bottgers · July 2002

Where can these 3M car polishes be purchased? I don't recall seeing any of them in any of our local stores. I'd like to give them a try. I had a product by 3M once, I think it was called fill and glaze. It was a pink liquid used as a final application prior to applying any type of protectant to your paint. Man, did this stuff ever leave a smooooooooth finish!

I've used several Meguiar's products, the latest being the liquid Medallion, and I haven't been impressed with any of them. None of them seem to shine very well, and they don't last. For store bought waxes, the Eagle 1 products kick their butts!

I haven't found a product yet that cleans automotive glass without streaking, amd I've tried a lot of them. I think I'll go with my wife's recommendation next time; vinegar and water.

rayfbaird · July 2002

I have the same problem in my area. Can't find those excellent 3M Products easily. Here are areas where I have bought 3M products.

My Local Automobile paint supply store.

The online store at 3M.com

Properautocare.com

autobarn.com

Napa Auto Parts stores

Here are some other seemingly good sources.

premiumautocare.com

autodetail.com

adenn · July 2002

Just visited 3M.com -they are offering free shipping--for a limited time--for products purchased on-line. Their prices are also better than what my local Napa wants, so you might want to give them a try.

Store Bought Waxes Part II (No Zaino Posts)

Comments

Helpful Tools

Most popular vehicles