This is generally a problem with any synthetic wax. Carnaubas give definite clues about when they are worn out since the beading stops. Acrylics act like an old wax right away. Hard to tell on a well prepared surface.
Many who use Blackfire or Klasse top it with a Carnauba. It keeps the dust away better, and adds depth to the shine. Can't layer again with the polymer however. This is common enough that the Blackfire instructions discuss this issue.
Good toppers are considered to be Pinnacle, P21S, or S100 since they and Blackfire were created by the same chemist. S100 is the same as P21S, and far cheaper than the other two.
I just bought some Blackfire myself for use this winter, so I will be able to give better information come spring.
For what it's worth. I always wonder about people complaining about summer waxing issues, when winter here is our real challenge.
I bought Blackfire when it first came out and found it extremely easy to use and obtain a great shine. If you read CMA's product description of it, even they say it won't last as long as some other sealants. It wasn't designed to be the ultimate in durability. Blackfire was designed to give the appearance of carnauba with better longevity, easier use, instant cure time, and low solvents to protect soft clearcoats. I feel its a product that does many things well but none perfectly. For most people I think that's a good balance.
The "sheeting vs. beading" thing is a conundrum. My feeling is that sheeting will minimize hard water spots and potential damage from acid rain. But beading makes product performance somewhat quantifyable. Maybe there's too much made of beading, or maybe its not enough. Hard to say so I don't worry about it.
Well, since I live in Florida, summer waxing is about all we do I thankfully don't have to endure the harsh elements like you guys up north. Our biggest worry is the sun. The sun angle is more pronounced - I can actually get a sunburn in February if I'm not careful (I'm sure you all are feeling extremely sorry for me about right now!). Until the last decade or so, you never saw a red car around here that wasn't fading fast. That's why white was, and still is, a very popular color. I never really liked white, though I've had several white cars. I've had a couple red cars too. The newer paints like on my current red car seem to fair better. If I don't keep after it though, it will fade too, just not as fast hopefully. The other problem we have is rain. The average yearly rainfall in my area is around 55 inches per year, mostly between June-September when it rains almost every day (but it's sunny too during the first half of the day!). So ours cars are constantly getting wet, which means contaminents from the sky as the rain falls, and also from the roads as it's kicked up onto the finish. A common misconception about cars in Florida is that they are constantly exposed to salt from the ocean. This is only true if you live directly on the beach and are getting the spray, otherwise if you live even a couple miles away from the water, it's not a problem. Also, it never rains saltwater as I've heard some say!
This board is great! Thanks for responding with some good information. Tntitan, I thought I remembered you saying you were going to get the BF, but then I couldn't find the post. All I could find was you saying you would try Blitz or P21S or something.
I have some #26 (and #39 and #40) showing up today that I will try after I put on another coat or two of MPPP. However, I really want to try BF. There is a set of pictures on Autopia of a purple Corvette, and there was one of a blue-grey Acura CL with BF that both looked amazing. Plus, the product really sounds like it will give me the shine I want on my car. I really want to try BF topped with Souveran, but that's a lot of money. Plus, I can't put any more BF on then... I like to wax about once a month (or more), but need something where a few coats can go 3-4 months if it has to over the winter. It sounds like BF would be up to that. Or maybe BF with a topper. That way if the topper wears off midway through winter, the BF is just starting out...
Again, thanks for taking the time to respond. I really did search for all the info I could find before asking the question.
On my wife's white CRV and my mother's LeSabre I have used the BlackFire. I truly loved it for the ease of application and the finished product. I drive an dark emerald green Accord that currently has Collinite topped with S100. My Accord looked great with the Collinite and I had a lot of compliments but I think that there is a distinct improvement in appearance with the S100 topper. The S100 is just as easy to apply as the Blackfire.
I have about 3 chips, water spots, etc. on my Accord that I am taking pictures of to post on Autopia and get some advice on how to fix. I am hoping to repair them by hand because I don't want to buy a PC. After I get my paint repaired to my satisfaction I plan to do the whole enchilada for my winterization:
1. Dawn Wash 2. Clay with the Erazer (the only clay I have used but I don't think it can get any easier with another brand). 3. Blackfire Polish 4. Blackfire Protectant (probably only 2 coats) 5. Collinite wax (for durability) 6. S100 wax about once a month
Actually I may do half my roof as described above and half without the Collinite step to see if there is a notable difference in shine and/or durability.
My car is garaged at night and I wash the car about once a week. I figure to go about 5-6 months on this plan and then redo the whole process.
Britton, I can't disagree about the problems with summer care, having spent my lunch hour quick detailing after I noticed rain spots. It does require careful attention especially on the hood. Here we not only get acid rain from the air, but highly alkali water from sprinklers
However, in warmer weather you always have the option of being able to fix something. In winter, you just have to prepare as best you can and ride it out. Some winters you are lucky enough to get a thaw, others, it can be literally 4-5 months. That together with the snow, the slush, the sand, and the fabulous road salt film are hard on a car's finish.
Cleanup in spring can be horrendous. This spring I was working in a friends car and we actually had to wash, use a tar and wax remover, and then clay bar 4 times to get all of the road film off. The car actually changed color from a sandy off white to a brilliant blue white. Granted, he wasn't OCD about waxing like I am, but it was miserable. Detailing to remove rain spots and re waxing seems like a breeze in comparison.
My Red car doesn't winter too well, so this fall I'm going to try a regime similar to tntitan's to see if it winters better. My white and gray one hold up well using 3M products and Meguiar's #26.
thanks for your reply - I see what you mean about summer care - I have a question regarding my 16 month old car - I have not used any kind of polish, glaze or paint cleaner on it yet - just hand wash it regularly and wax on occasion - at one point are any of the glazes or polishes necessary? My car looks as good as the day I got it - I read somewhere that a new car doesn't need polishing for the first 2 years - thanks
There are some very mild polishes that are highly recommended by friends and other sites on the Internet like P21S (S100) and Pinnacle Paint Cleansing Lotions. I haven't been able to feel any grit those that I've tried. They do pull up some dirt even after using clay.
I personally like the fact that polishes add some oils that nourish the paint as well as keep it cleaner.
I've also found that waxes are more durable when the surface is well prepared.
I thought I was a car nut until I happened across this thread 8 months ago. Most of you guys put me to shame. I've learned a lot by lurking here. Thanks for the therapy.
tntitan: Thanks for your impression of the Blackfire products. I've pretty much decided to go this route also. I deal with very high humidity here in southern Louisiana and easy on/off with good results sounds very good to me.
Ok, my #26 did show up yesterday. I was planning on it by stripping the car with Dawn after a regular wash with Meguiars and then some bug & tar where needed. There were a few spots where gum got thrown up against the body from the tires. That's pretty annoying.
Anyway, I used the dawn wash because I think the last time I used the Medallion paint cleaner and then the #7, I used the #7 waaaayyyyy too thick. I've learned from here and autopia not to do that. It always seemed like there should be a bunch on the pad. If I couldn't see the product on the pad it seemed like it would scratch up the paint. Well, it went much easier with less product. I didn't do the cleaner since the car was almost swirl-free. I did notice the #7 filled in the few light swirls that were there. Then I put on two coats of MPPP, which oddly seemed to make the swirls visible again. While I was doing this, the UPS guy showed up with my #26. I was really amazed by the extra depth the #26 added. However, it was a little hard to apply. It was all chunky at the top so chunks got on the pad and then got in all sorts of bodywork cracks and seams. I think it will go on easier next time. As I said, I was really surprised by the results. The car has a nice depth now, and that's what I wanted. I still think I want to try the BF if it gives the same kind of depth because it sounds easier to apply. If it gives more depth, hey even better.
The MPPP I leave on the whole car for a few minutes which I certainly couldn't do with the #26. Also, I noticed that after the dawn wash, the car didn't really bead water, but neither did it just pool there. Also, the paint still had an amazing reflectivity. It really looked good even with nothing on it. I took a few pictures, but it will be months before they are developed and scanned.
That's what I did. The MPPP is Medallion Premium Paint Protectant, not the cleaner. I didn't redo the cleaner this time because the car didn't need it. So I dawned/#7/MPPPx2/#26.
Since I'm using up a post anyway, I'll tell you my observations with the #26. The first coat I put on, I used a back-and-forth motion instead of circles. It was hard to get good coverage that way, so I tried back-and-forth in alternating directions. It seemed fine, and I did the final wipes in a back-and-forth motion (it's pretty hard to get the product to come off at all if you don't do at least some circling while buffing). When I took the car outside to snap some photos I noticed that on the side panels you could see the up-and-down pattern from where it didn't spread evenly. However, it did illustrate the extra depth gained from the #26.
I put on a second coat yesterday (a day after the first) and I just put it on in circles. Well, it was waayyy easier this way as the little chunks spread out easier and you get total coverage much easier. I still did the final wipe in a back-and-forth motion just in case that helps the clarity somewhat. I would definitely recommend the circle motion at least for this particular product.
All in all a great product. I applied it to the black trim on the doors too and they even look deeper. I put it on the wheels but it wasn't that noticeable.
As an aside, do you all notice an incredible shine after the dawn? I expected it to look a bit flat, but the car was shiny as heck. The #7 did darken it a little and add some depth, but I was surprised by how reflective it was before putting anything on.
Also as an aside, what's the plastic bag clay trick? What are you supposed to feel for? The bag to catch? With a sandwich bag over my hand, the paint felt a little bumpy, but they were smooth bumps. The claying didn't do anything to decrease that. It felt just as bumpy after claying. Without the bag, the paint felt smooth as glass before and after the clay. I felt all around the car, but it all felt the same (smooth bumps). I clayed the hood since I was trying to see if it would reduce the bumping, but then I didn't bother with the rest of the car since it made no difference on the hood.
then you wouldn't need to use the clay bar. Clay bars are not needed unless there is some stuck on grit. IF it looked very shiny and clean, and felt mirror smooth, it wasn't needed.
I don't use the plastic bag because I clay if it feels gritty at all after washing.
I've always applied my #26, or any other paste wax in a circular motion. Puzzled about your "chunks comment. My Meguiars #26 has always been very smooth. That would make it harder to apply. I wonder if putting it in a microwave at power level 1 or 2 for a short time might soften it up enough that you can push it all together.
I'm currently using the Eagle-1, 20/20 Glass cleaner. While it does a good cleaning job, I notice, as others on this board have noticed, that within a couple of days, a film develops on the glass.
Has anyone out there used a product named "Invisible Glass" by a company named Stoner? I'd appreciate any comments you may have on the product. Thanks
It is pretty smooth now that I've used up the chunks. That plastic cover (the one inside that holds the pad seperate from the wax) had a thin coating of #26 on it. When I pulled it up, it all cracked off into the can. So there were a fair amount of chunks in the can. Maybe I just got a bad pour, or maybe it was tipped over while it was still liquid.
I thought about warming it up, but I'm concerned that the product might seperate out or something. So I'll just suck it up for now. The chunks do break up as you rub. But they are very inclined to getting into cracks and crevices. Fortunately they are pretty sticky, so I was able to touch them with a toothpick and remove them since they stuck to it.
Kirbstoy, I recently got some Invisible Glass. It does a pretty good job of not leaving a haze, but it helps if you wipe a second time with a dry cloth. I also have some Gumout or Gunk foaming glass cleaner. It does a better job of getting bugs and crud off, but leaves more haze. I usually try the foam and then follow up with the Invisible Glass. Newspaper helps a little with the haze. Don't try it on the interior glass, though, as you don't want black handprints all over your seats.
I've been using Stoner's Invisible Glass for about a year with terrific results. Use it with a new microfiber towel that's dedicated to glass cleaning and you should have perfect windows.
Another excellent glass cleaner is Sprayway. It's hard to find at retail sometimes but can be ordered online. It's a foamy cleaner and makes a little more mess than Stoner's but is a very good product.
I still have several bottles of 20/20 and its predecessors and use them around the house but I no longer use it on my car for the same reasons you quoted.
I'll remember to open my next container of #26 very carefully. I'm still finishing up an old metal container. That can has lasted over 50 applications, and still has a few more.
I read that just a couple days ago while researching the Blackfire on properautocare.com - what gives with that? I think I can tell if there's grit better with just my bare hand. Does the bag catch or something? Seems strange ....
another place that sells Stoner's is Pep Boys - it's good stuff but I have switched to the Eagle One 20/20 because it's cheaper and works well enough for me -
here's a technical repair notice from them - you gotta love the disclaimer!:
NOTICE No: MT000001622 MODEL: Mazda MPV YEAR: All years AFFECTED VINs: N/A SUBJECT: Rail dust remover APPLICABLE MODELS: All vehicles DETAILS: If you encounter a customer complaint of poor appearance of the exterior paint in the form of metal spots, it's possible that it may be rail dust. Rail dust is described as black/brown spots or small rusty-looking particles embedded into the paint finish of the vehicle's horizontal surfaces. If you gently run your hand over the affected area, it may feel gritty and irregular.
After confirming that the vehicle has rail dust, the following product can be used to correct the problem:
Entire Car Protection Inc. (ECP) has a product named "Correct-It Clay". This product can be used in two easy steps.
Precondition the affected area(s) by spraying "Correct-It Liquid". Break off a piece of clay approx. 1" x 1" from the 8 oz. brick. Knead the clay into a pancake form, place the clay in the palm of your hand, and rub the clay over the affected surface(s). To order this product or for further information, please contact ECP directly at the following number 1-800 323-3521
CONSUMER NOTICE: The information and instructions in this notice are intended for use by skilled technicians. Mazda technicians utilize the proper tools/equipment and take training to correctly and safely maintain Mazda vehicles. These instructions should not be performed by "do-it-yourselfers." Consumers should not assume this notice applies to their vehicle or that their vehicle will develop the described concern. To determine if the information applies, consumers should contact their nearest authorized Mazda dealership.
To bretfraz and mrdetailer : Thanks for all your great advices. I've done the Dawn, clay bar (Mothers), Meguiars Crystal System step 2 (polish, couldn't find #9) and 2 coats of Meguiars #26 (liquid) on my girlfriend red Civic CX 97. Stunning !!!! Never seen the red color so alive. Still looking very good after 3 weeks. Will do the same on my new Silver Impreza 2.5 RS. Thanks again and regards from Montreal !
OK, please don't ask why, but I de-badged the trim-level LX emblem on my van. The trouble is that the van is 2 years old and the glue they used is now cured like Liquid Nails on my finish. Someone suggested that I use Goof-Off, but I was afraid it would damage the clearcoat. I really hate to use a razor. The area around the old badge is also fairly well scratched/swirled, so what's the best product to help remove those once (or if) I get the glue off?
Glad to be of service. As a long time Town Hall member I feel its important to give back to the community in my own little way. I'm happy to hear that you've benefited from my posts. You made my day.
I used 3M's Release Agent on my car. It won't hurt the paint as long as you don't leave it sitting there for long. Put some paper towel under the badge (or whatever to soak it up) and spray it liberally on the glue. The foam should soak up a lot and hold it there against the glue. Soak up any extra that runs off. Don't spray it on until you are ready to remove it. If you are going to warm it or something, do that first before spraying. Then gently pick/pull/work the glue off the paint. DON'T use a razor! You can try dental floss to cut the foam first (and get the actual badge out of the way) if you want.
The Release Agent is strong enough to remove weatherstripping adhesive, so I'm sure it will work. It really won't hurt the paint from short exposure. Just make sure you keep it from running everywhere, and make sure you clean it off thoroughly afterwards. After I got the majority off, I switched to bug & tar remover for the last little bit of glue since it is more user-friendly than the Release Agent.
Actually I already removed the badge - it's the remaining glue that's giving me trouble. Then, I was obviously too aggressive trying to remove the glue that I caused swirls and scratches. Geez - some newbie OCD I am!
I tried it on the car that had a film on the windows I couldn't remove. Was always gray even after trying windex, power clean, vineagar, lemon juice, and a few other cleaners.
The Stoners cleaned it up better than any other cleaner I've used. Forgot how nice it was to look out of a completely clean windshield again.
Just bought some of this stuff and applied a light coat after washing the car. Put it on the hood and trunk just to see the results. Not bad, not bad! Since the Corolla is white, nothing will make the paint mirror like like a darker color but, not bad after a wash and over the old wax. Now I'll have to dawn, clay, and then reapply to see what really happens. Wish me luck guys!
Surprisingly, my test of a topper test of P21S, and Meguiars #26 hard Yellow Wax came to an end early this morning when I washed my red Mazda. the wax was flat on the hood and trunk. Here's what I had on each section. Just like last winter, this summer has been brutal on paint finishes. Scorching days interspersed with dirty acid rain about once a week. Just long enough usually to make the car good and dirty. Washed weekly.
Hood 3M Perfect-It Show Car Wax only. 2 coats.
Trunk and Roof. 2 layers of Perfect-It topped half with Meguiars #26 and half with P21S.
Here's my summary.
Ease of application.
Meguiars #26 paste Medium--easy.
3M Perfect-IT Paste Easy
P21S Carnauba Paste Very Easy if instructions followed correctly.
Depth of shine.
Meguiars #26 Paste Excellent
3M Perfect-IT Paste Excellent
P21S Carnauba Paste Excellent.
Clarity of Reflected Images.
Meguiars #26 Paste very good
Perfect-IT Paste Excellent
P21S Carnauba Paste Excellant. This had the clearest reflections.
Durability
Meguiars #26 Paste good
Perfect-IT Paste Excellent. The most durable Carnauba I've seen. I did not reapply wax to the hood because it wasn't needed yet. Still beaded well and has great reflectivity.
P21S Carnauba Paste good.
I have generally found paste waxes to be more durable than the liquids even of the same brand. They also don't remove paint color like liquids on my oxidized older car.
Conclusion.
Meguiars #26 is the most economical. Pretty durable, economical, lacks some clarity in the reflection. Depth is excellent. Great in milder weather, wears out in extremes.
P21S is the easiest to apply, had a wonderful wet look. Clarity in the reflections is unparalleled (I haven't ponied up $50.00 for Sovereign yet). P21S tech support advised re-waxing every 6 weeks in general. This seems to be accurate in the summer. This would be an excellent wax for any car that is garaged regularly.
Conclusion, At least in the hot dry summer with weekly acid rain, I would definitely pick 3M Perfect-It Show Car Paste Wax over either of the others if I had to pick just one Carnauba. For about $15.00 you get double the quantity of P21S, and better clarity and durability than Meguiars #26. And since it's a paste, it can be used repeatedly before it runs out.
One point that should be made. The S100 is the exact same wax as the P21S except it only retails for $14.95 compared to $24.95. Both are 6.2 ounces and are the EXACT same wax.
The S100 can usually be purchased for $14.95 at any Harley Davidson dealer. It is advertised as motorcycle wax but there is no difference except for price. It is all about marketing.
Concerning S100, I know, I know, but I didn't find out about the much less expensive version until after I paid the extra price. I was able to get the S100 Gloss Enhancing Lotion and will try the glaze with the wax on a friends vehicle soon.
I have to modify yesterdays review slightly. Concerning the Red Mazda, everything is absolutely true as I mentioned above.
I now believe the high temperatures on the deep red finish in the sun it's subjected to every day cooked off the wax. I think that this is an amazing summer wax IF you reapply every 4-6 weeks on dark surfaces. I wouldn't go any longer. Gurureports.com listed this wax as the most durable carnauba. But that was last fall. Cooler weather may very well increase durability. They also used test panels, not real vehicles on streets.
This morning I washed my white vehicle, that had P21S and Meguiars #26 on half of the hood and trunk. It was put on only a day after the same treatment on the red car. On the white car both Meguiars #26 and P21S are still holding extremely well. Beading was good, only a little bit lower than the first washing and shine still looks like new.
Since I'm going on a trip and wanted extra protection I topped the roof and hood entirely with P21S. The 3M Perfect-It Show car paste on the sides still looks and acts brand new, so I didn't do a recoat there. No one would know that I was using 2 different brands of waxes on different parts of the Subaru without a super careful inspection or prior knowledge.
The recoat is a slightly brighter shine than the 3M I put on my silver Dodge yesterday. Depth of color still appears equal. Reflectivity is even better than the first time. And of course it is a joy to apply and remove if done correctly. Even in cooler temperatures (65 degrees) P21S still requires smaller working areas before buffing.
S100/P21S, while very good looking is to me a 3 season wax at most. I don't dare use it when I have to go 6-8 weeks at times without a chance to wash and re wax. 3M Perfect-It Show Car Paste has gone 5 months without a re wax last winter and held up well. It's the toughest carnauba and if 4-6 week spaces are done between coats, it layers and adds depth and reflectivity to the shine without stripping the earlier layer.
Opinion has not changed that the best overall Carnauba wax, especially considering durability and price with looks only slightly diminished is 3M Perfect-It Paste WAX.
MrDetailer--a quick question about the 3M show car paste wax. Can it be applied over a polish like Meguiars #7 or Mother's Sealant and Glaze? Or would this keep it from bonding to the paint surface properly? Thanks--Adenn
Twice a year I strip off the old wax, use the clay bar and glaze before putting on the Perfect-It Show Car Wax. I have used Perfect-It Glaze and Swirl Remover for both light and dark cars, and Meguiars #7 Glaze, and Meguiars #9 Swirl Remover. It did not affect durability. Mothers Sealant Glaze should give similar results.
3M's technical support said that it was designed to go over a glaze and still bind.
For winter protection I do the glaze first, then put on 3-4 coats spaced 3-4 weeks apart. I also add another coat during the winter thaw when the temperature gets in the high 40s--50s. The wax goes on OK if you put the vehicle in the sun to warm the surface a little.
I hear ya. I was just in your neck of the woods (York/Harrisburg) over the weekend. It was nice on Friday but got hotter and more humid Sat and Sun. Looks like you haven't got much rain this summer. I thought we in Georgia had it bad.
Great, next time you get out to South Central PA, let me know! I work in York, play in Harrisburg and live in Lancaster. I would truly enjoy meeting you in person! Lots to see and do.
Comments
Many who use Blackfire or Klasse top it with a Carnauba. It keeps the dust away better, and adds depth to the shine. Can't layer again with the polymer however. This is common enough that the Blackfire instructions discuss this issue.
Good toppers are considered to be Pinnacle, P21S, or S100 since they and Blackfire were created by the same chemist. S100 is the same as P21S, and far cheaper than the other two.
I just bought some Blackfire myself for use this winter, so I will be able to give better information come spring.
For what it's worth. I always wonder about people complaining about summer waxing issues, when winter here is our real challenge.
The "sheeting vs. beading" thing is a conundrum. My feeling is that sheeting will minimize hard water spots and potential damage from acid rain. But beading makes product performance somewhat quantifyable. Maybe there's too much made of beading, or maybe its not enough. Hard to say so I don't worry about it.
I have some #26 (and #39 and #40) showing up today that I will try after I put on another coat or two of MPPP. However, I really want to try BF. There is a set of pictures on Autopia of a purple Corvette, and there was one of a blue-grey Acura CL with BF that both looked amazing. Plus, the product really sounds like it will give me the shine I want on my car. I really want to try BF topped with Souveran, but that's a lot of money. Plus, I can't put any more BF on then... I like to wax about once a month (or more), but need something where a few coats can go 3-4 months if it has to over the winter. It sounds like BF would be up to that. Or maybe BF with a topper. That way if the topper wears off midway through winter, the BF is just starting out...
Again, thanks for taking the time to respond. I really did search for all the info I could find before asking the question.
I have about 3 chips, water spots, etc. on my Accord that I am taking pictures of to post on Autopia and get some advice on how to fix. I am hoping to repair them by hand because I don't want to buy a PC. After I get my paint repaired to my satisfaction I plan to do the whole enchilada for my winterization:
1. Dawn Wash
2. Clay with the Erazer (the only clay I have used but I don't think it can get any easier with another brand).
3. Blackfire Polish
4. Blackfire Protectant (probably only 2 coats)
5. Collinite wax (for durability)
6. S100 wax about once a month
Actually I may do half my roof as described above and half without the Collinite step to see if there is a notable difference in shine and/or durability.
My car is garaged at night and I wash the car about once a week. I figure to go about 5-6 months on this plan and then redo the whole process.
However, in warmer weather you always have the option of being able to fix something. In winter, you just have to prepare as best you can and ride it out. Some winters you are lucky enough to get a thaw, others, it can be literally 4-5 months. That together with the snow, the slush, the sand, and the fabulous road salt film are hard on a car's finish.
Cleanup in spring can be horrendous. This spring I was working in a friends car and we actually had to wash, use a tar and wax remover, and then clay bar 4 times to get all of the road film off. The car actually changed color from a sandy off white to a brilliant blue white. Granted, he wasn't OCD about waxing like I am, but it was miserable. Detailing to remove rain spots and re waxing seems like a breeze in comparison.
My Red car doesn't winter too well, so this fall I'm going to try a regime similar to tntitan's to see if it winters better. My white and gray one hold up well using 3M products and Meguiar's #26.
There are some very mild polishes that are highly recommended by friends and other sites on the Internet like P21S (S100) and Pinnacle Paint Cleansing Lotions. I haven't been able to feel any grit those that I've tried. They do pull up some dirt even after using clay.
I personally like the fact that polishes add some oils that nourish the paint as well as keep it cleaner.
I've also found that waxes are more durable when the surface is well prepared.
tntitan: Thanks for your impression of the Blackfire products. I've pretty much decided to go this route also. I deal with very high humidity here in southern Louisiana and easy on/off with good results sounds very good to me.
Anyway, I used the dawn wash because I think the last time I used the Medallion paint cleaner and then the #7, I used the #7 waaaayyyyy too thick. I've learned from here and autopia not to do that. It always seemed like there should be a bunch on the pad. If I couldn't see the product on the pad it seemed like it would scratch up the paint. Well, it went much easier with less product. I didn't do the cleaner since the car was almost swirl-free. I did notice the #7 filled in the few light swirls that were there. Then I put on two coats of MPPP, which oddly seemed to make the swirls visible again. While I was doing this, the UPS guy showed up with my #26. I was really amazed by the extra depth the #26 added. However, it was a little hard to apply. It was all chunky at the top so chunks got on the pad and then got in all sorts of bodywork cracks and seams. I think it will go on easier next time. As I said, I was really surprised by the results. The car has a nice depth now, and that's what I wanted. I still think I want to try the BF if it gives the same kind of depth because it sounds easier to apply. If it gives more depth, hey even better.
The MPPP I leave on the whole car for a few minutes which I certainly couldn't do with the #26. Also, I noticed that after the dawn wash, the car didn't really bead water, but neither did it just pool there. Also, the paint still had an amazing reflectivity. It really looked good even with nothing on it. I took a few pictures, but it will be months before they are developed and scanned.
Obligitory California Duster
but for most of us it is.
Obsessiive Car Detailer
Autopia should be back up tomorrow. I'll let y'all know of any changes.
RJS - The Medallion cleaner is more aggressive than #7, or any glaze for that matter. Use it first, then #7, then #26.
Since I'm using up a post anyway, I'll tell you my observations with the #26. The first coat I put on, I used a back-and-forth motion instead of circles. It was hard to get good coverage that way, so I tried back-and-forth in alternating directions. It seemed fine, and I did the final wipes in a back-and-forth motion (it's pretty hard to get the product to come off at all if you don't do at least some circling while buffing). When I took the car outside to snap some photos I noticed that on the side panels you could see the up-and-down pattern from where it didn't spread evenly. However, it did illustrate the extra depth gained from the #26.
I put on a second coat yesterday (a day after the first) and I just put it on in circles. Well, it was waayyy easier this way as the little chunks spread out easier and you get total coverage much easier. I still did the final wipe in a back-and-forth motion just in case that helps the clarity somewhat. I would definitely recommend the circle motion at least for this particular product.
All in all a great product. I applied it to the black trim on the doors too and they even look deeper. I put it on the wheels but it wasn't that noticeable.
As an aside, do you all notice an incredible shine after the dawn? I expected it to look a bit flat, but the car was shiny as heck. The #7 did darken it a little and add some depth, but I was surprised by how reflective it was before putting anything on.
Also as an aside, what's the plastic bag clay trick? What are you supposed to feel for? The bag to catch? With a sandwich bag over my hand, the paint felt a little bumpy, but they were smooth bumps. The claying didn't do anything to decrease that. It felt just as bumpy after claying. Without the bag, the paint felt smooth as glass before and after the clay. I felt all around the car, but it all felt the same (smooth bumps). I clayed the hood since I was trying to see if it would reduce the bumping, but then I didn't bother with the rest of the car since it made no difference on the hood.
I don't use the plastic bag because I clay if it feels gritty at all after washing.
I've always applied my #26, or any other paste wax in a circular motion. Puzzled about your "chunks comment. My Meguiars #26 has always been very smooth. That would make it harder to apply. I wonder if putting it in a microwave at power level 1 or 2 for a short time might soften it up enough that you can push it all together.
Just a thought.
Has anyone out there used a product named "Invisible Glass" by a company named Stoner? I'd appreciate any comments you may have on the product. Thanks
I thought about warming it up, but I'm concerned that the product might seperate out or something. So I'll just suck it up for now. The chunks do break up as you rub. But they are very inclined to getting into cracks and crevices. Fortunately they are pretty sticky, so I was able to touch them with a toothpick and remove them since they stuck to it.
Kirbstoy, I recently got some Invisible Glass. It does a pretty good job of not leaving a haze, but it helps if you wipe a second time with a dry cloth. I also have some Gumout or Gunk foaming glass cleaner. It does a better job of getting bugs and crud off, but leaves more haze. I usually try the foam and then follow up with the Invisible Glass. Newspaper helps a little with the haze. Don't try it on the interior glass, though, as you don't want black handprints all over your seats.
Another excellent glass cleaner is Sprayway. It's hard to find at retail sometimes but can be ordered online. It's a foamy cleaner and makes a little more mess than Stoner's but is a very good product.
I still have several bottles of 20/20 and its predecessors and use them around the house but I no longer use it on my car for the same reasons you quoted.
NOTICE No: MT000001622
MODEL: Mazda MPV YEAR: All years
AFFECTED VINs: N/A
SUBJECT: Rail dust remover
APPLICABLE MODELS: All vehicles
DETAILS:
If you encounter a customer complaint of poor appearance of the exterior paint in the form of metal spots, it's possible that it may be rail dust. Rail dust is described as black/brown spots or small rusty-looking particles embedded into the paint finish of the vehicle's horizontal surfaces. If you gently run your hand over the affected area, it may feel gritty and irregular.
After confirming that the vehicle has rail dust, the following product can be used to correct the problem:
Entire Car Protection Inc. (ECP) has a product named "Correct-It Clay". This product can be used in two easy steps.
Precondition the affected area(s) by spraying "Correct-It Liquid".
Break off a piece of clay approx. 1" x 1" from the 8 oz. brick. Knead the clay into a pancake form, place the clay in the palm of your hand, and rub the clay over the affected surface(s).
To order this product or for further information, please contact ECP directly at the following number 1-800 323-3521
CONSUMER NOTICE:
The information and instructions in this notice are intended for use by skilled technicians. Mazda technicians utilize the proper tools/equipment and take training to correctly and safely maintain Mazda vehicles. These instructions should not be performed by "do-it-yourselfers." Consumers should not assume this notice applies to their vehicle or that their vehicle will develop the described concern. To determine if the information applies, consumers should contact their nearest authorized Mazda dealership.
Looks like a blanket disclaimer that they just attach on the end of all of these!!
Put the clay down immediately, sir, and nobody will get hurt!!
- - Bret - -
The Release Agent is strong enough to remove weatherstripping adhesive, so I'm sure it will work. It really won't hurt the paint from short exposure. Just make sure you keep it from running everywhere, and make sure you clean it off thoroughly afterwards. After I got the majority off, I switched to bug & tar remover for the last little bit of glue since it is more user-friendly than the Release Agent.
The Stoners cleaned it up better than any other cleaner I've used. Forgot how nice it was to look out of a completely clean windshield again.
Thanks for the tips everyone.
The Sandman :-) (Newbie Detailer)
Jim
Hood 3M Perfect-It Show Car Wax only. 2 coats.
Trunk and Roof. 2 layers of Perfect-It topped half with Meguiars #26 and half with P21S.
Here's my summary.
Ease of application.
Meguiars #26 paste Medium--easy.
3M Perfect-IT Paste Easy
P21S Carnauba Paste Very Easy if instructions followed correctly.
Depth of shine.
Meguiars #26 Paste Excellent
3M Perfect-IT Paste Excellent
P21S Carnauba Paste Excellent.
Clarity of Reflected Images.
Meguiars #26 Paste very good
Perfect-IT Paste Excellent
P21S Carnauba Paste Excellant. This had the clearest reflections.
Durability
Meguiars #26 Paste good
Perfect-IT Paste Excellent. The most durable Carnauba I've seen. I did not reapply wax to the hood because it wasn't needed yet. Still beaded well and has great reflectivity.
P21S Carnauba Paste good.
I have generally found paste waxes to be more durable than the liquids even of the same brand. They also don't remove paint color like liquids on my oxidized older car.
Conclusion.
Meguiars #26 is the most economical. Pretty durable, economical, lacks some clarity in the reflection. Depth is excellent. Great in milder weather, wears out in extremes.
P21S is the easiest to apply, had a wonderful wet look. Clarity in the reflections is unparalleled (I haven't ponied up $50.00 for Sovereign yet). P21S tech support advised re-waxing every 6 weeks in general. This seems to be accurate in the summer. This would be an excellent wax for any car that is garaged regularly.
Conclusion, At least in the hot dry summer with weekly acid rain, I would definitely pick 3M Perfect-It Show Car Paste Wax over either of the others if I had to pick just one Carnauba. For about $15.00 you get double the quantity of P21S, and better clarity and durability than Meguiars #26. And since it's a paste, it can be used repeatedly before it runs out.
One point that should be made. The S100 is the exact same wax as the P21S except it only retails for $14.95 compared to $24.95. Both are 6.2 ounces and are the EXACT same wax.
The S100 can usually be purchased for $14.95 at any Harley Davidson dealer. It is advertised as motorcycle wax but there is no difference except for price. It is all about marketing.
Great review.
I have to modify yesterdays review slightly. Concerning the Red Mazda, everything is absolutely true as I mentioned above.
I now believe the high temperatures on the deep red finish in the sun it's subjected to every day cooked off the wax. I think that this is an amazing summer wax IF you reapply every 4-6 weeks on dark surfaces. I wouldn't go any longer. Gurureports.com listed this wax as the most durable carnauba. But that was last fall. Cooler weather may very well increase durability. They also used test panels, not real vehicles on streets.
This morning I washed my white vehicle, that had P21S and Meguiars #26 on half of the hood and trunk. It was put on only a day after the same treatment on the red car. On the white car both Meguiars #26 and P21S are still holding extremely well. Beading was good, only a little bit lower than the first washing and shine still looks like new.
Since I'm going on a trip and wanted extra protection I topped the roof and hood entirely with P21S. The 3M Perfect-It Show car paste on the sides still looks and acts brand new, so I didn't do a recoat there. No one would know that I was using 2 different brands of waxes on different parts of the Subaru without a super careful inspection or prior knowledge.
The recoat is a slightly brighter shine than the 3M I put on my silver Dodge yesterday. Depth of color still appears equal. Reflectivity is even better than the first time. And of course it is a joy to apply and remove if done correctly. Even in cooler temperatures (65 degrees) P21S still requires smaller working areas before buffing.
S100/P21S, while very good looking is to me a 3 season wax at most. I don't dare use it when I have to go 6-8 weeks at times without a chance to wash and re wax. 3M Perfect-It Show Car Paste has gone 5 months without a re wax last winter and held up well. It's the toughest carnauba and if 4-6 week spaces are done between coats, it layers and adds depth and reflectivity to the shine without stripping the earlier layer.
Opinion has not changed that the best overall Carnauba wax, especially considering durability and price with looks only slightly diminished is 3M Perfect-It Paste WAX.
Thanks for tolerating my ramblings.
Thanks--Adenn
3M's technical support said that it was designed to go over a glaze and still bind.
For winter protection I do the glaze first, then put on 3-4 coats spaced 3-4 weeks apart. I also add another coat during the winter thaw when the temperature gets in the high 40s--50s. The wax goes on OK if you put the vehicle in the sun to warm the surface a little.
-larry
-Larry