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Store Bought Waxes Part II (No Zaino Posts)
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Comments
LW
Like Most S100/P21S products the price is high. $9.21 for 11 ounces.
The first thing I noticed was the texture. It looked like lotion and had no grit. Like other P21S products it worked best in small areas. I could clean most water spots with a sponge on a normal application. Difficult ones required some scrubbing, but they went away.
I topped it off with 3M Perfect-It Show Car Paste. The look is just as good as the 3M glazes without any physical abrasives whatsoever. I'm sure there is some chemical additives to help clean the paint surface. But they seemed gentle. Clarity and reflectivity were absolutely amazing.
I am convinced that for newer cars this is the best choice.
Thanks all.
BTW, this does not harm the animal.
I think there are things like this in pet stores...to keep the off of furniture. I would think that after a few shocks, the cat will have learned its lesson.
Wouldn't my 325i, with nearly equal weight distribution and more rear weight during acceleration, do better in terms of traction than if the front wheels were driven?
-murray
ps- a little dead around here lately, huh?
Anyway, what washing with Dawn does is strip most old wax and polish and gets the paint to a clean state. Dawn is highly alkaline which is why it's frequently recommended. Frankly, it's not required to use Dawn; any alkaline detergent will do.
If you are doing a multi-step detail then it's best to get the paint as squeaky clean as possible. Your comment about lubricants is more applicable to auto shampoos - many have additives that enhance existing wax. Some detail sprays do this as well so it all depends on specific products and specific uses.
One last point: Dawn is household detegent, not a magic potion. If the car has a polymer sealant or some recent wax, Dawn may not make much of a dent in it. If you want to remove *all* the previous protectants you'll need to use something like a body shop prep product or isopropyl alcohol.
Hope this helps. I already detailed one car this weekend. Still gotta do mine.
What is your opinion of the BF shampoo? Have you used it often?
1. 3M Perfect-It Swirl Mark Remover.
2. Meguiars #9 Swirl Mark Remover.
3. Meguiars #3 Fine Cut Cleaner and.
4. Scratch X;
5. Scratch Out
6. Meguiars Gold Class Swirl Remover.
I called 3M technical support and they suggested 3M Cleaner Wax Medium Oxidation Remover. He had to talk me into it because I hate cleaner waxes, but I'm sure glad he did. I tried to remove some of the hard water stains by hand and sure enough they came off. I then used my Waxmaster on 1/3 of the hood. I had to do it four times, but 90% of the spots were removed, and the fine shadows that remained were easily removed by hand.
The swirl marks appear to have gone. But of course hard to tell since it put on a wax coat at the same time.
Definitely works best if a wax remover is used first.
Impressed. Haven't been able to get those water stains out after 6 other attempts. Nice looking finish, but I don't expect it to last since it's a cleaner wax. But It will leave a clean surface for this Winter's Blackfire experience.
So for the S100 car I'd stick to something mild (like P21S shampoo) but the BF shampoo is fine for the BF covered car.
I also wanted to share my .02 on BF. I recently used it on my van which has a metallic teal finish. While I found it easier to apply vs. Klasse, I was not as impressed with the results. Perhaps it's because I'm not comparing apples to apple here due to the color differences of my two vehicles, but the shine was not was what I expected. I also noticed more residual white leftover on the trim pieces than I did with Klasse. Obviously, the only way I can truly compare these two products would be to strip the BF from the van and apply Klasse, which I plan on doing soon and will post my results.
UPP has a buying advantage in that I can get it a bit cheaper (there are other places to buy it and they have sales and such). CMA is the only place for BF, so the prices don't change much. But, there is the fact that CMA is behind BF and they seem to have a solid reputation. The other products they make work as promised. So I'm a little up in the air about which one to try.
If you've used both, I'd love to hear an opinion. I'm leaning a bit more towards BF.
Maybe on the van use a panel or two for evaluation purposes. Apply BF to one half and Klasse to the other. That way you'll get real time, side-by-side performance comparisons. I think that would be a very interesting test. I haven't used Klasse in many years but my gut feel says it'll be quite different from BF, which is designed to mimic the appearance of carnauba but with better durability and easier use.
My vehicles had a shine that looked "wet" when I was finished. Just spray it on, wipe it around, let it dry and buff it off. It was quick and easy and the best part is that I didn't have any powerdery(sp) residue from the wax.
It is made by Stoner products Quarrysville Pa. They also make Bead Max which is only a wax and no cleaners in it. Speed Bead has some mild cleaners which is what I needed to remove road film and tar. Love it so far, just don't know how long I will be able to go between wax jobs.
Beachnut - I have the BF on my wife's white 2002 CRV which has a lot of black trim. When I applied the BF when it got on the trim I just wiped it off with one of the MF towels I had been using to buff and it came right off with zero pressure. Just wiped right off. No way that I would consider this to be a problem.
rjs200240 - I have used the BF on two vehicles. My wife's CRV as noted above and my mom's 1997 Buick LeSabre which is a champagne color (sort of a sandstone, tannish, light colored car). On the CRV I originally applied 1 coat of the cleaner and two coats of the protectant. I waited about 2 months and applied another 2 coats of protectant (about 30 minutes for each). The car looks great and I am extremely satisfied. On my mom's LeSabre I also did the one and two on July 4th weekend and it has been washed a few times since then. I just saw the car Friday and it really looked better than I expected. Very shiny still and very little done to it since application.
My overall impression of Blackfire is this:
1. It looks great (I plan to put it on my Dark Emerald Green Accord this winter with a Collinite and S100 topper. I may go back to only the carnuabas in the Spring).
2. More durable than carnuaba (I have used Collinite and S100 primarily) although Collinite is almost comparable for durability.
3. Application is as easy as S100 which is to say that it just doesn't get any easier. The biggest advantage of BF in my opinion is the ability to apply in 90% humidity and immediately layer upon layer. It is ready to buff off in 10-15 seconds and you can apply another layer then and there if you desire.
4. No hazing or any other kind of application problems. It is idiot proof.
Is it as durable as Klasse or Zaino? Never used them but I doubt it comes close. However, it is so easy to use I don't see how this could be a consideration.
I am impressed with Blackfire but I am equally or even more impressed with S100. I plan to use both.
The changeover is planned for October. I'm going to get me a couple more myself.
I used 3M Cleaner Wax with Medium Oxidation remover to get rid of water spots on the hood. So I currently have 3M cleaner wax on the hood. Blackfire on the roof, and Meguiars #26 on the trunk, and 3M Perfect-It Show Car Paste Wax on the sides. Got to quit experimenting so much.
Then after it's had some time to cure more, I will complete the winter coat by topping it with P21S.
Initially the 3M Cleaner wax on the hood was absolutely amazing. Brilliant shine, clarity and depth. Black fire on that cloudy day looked ho hum.
Then it rained for a week, at least 8 times. When I washed it last Saturday I had a different reaction. The Cleaner Wax was not nearly as brilliant. This was expected and frankly I bought it for its excellent cleaning properties, not for its durability. But the Blackfire was amazing. Reflections of my garage and tree beside my driveway were amazing clear and detailed. It didn't have the impression of a brilliant shine like P21S, but the finish was deep. Overall my 1 week impression is that this could be a keeper.
The Blackfire beaded just like a carnauba in the rain, but not when I washed the car. I hope to put on a couple more layers of the paint Protectant, and on the trunk this weekend I am going to try CMA's (properautocare.com) suggestion of using a glaze first, then the Gloss Enhancing Polish and Protectant.
I'll complete the winter coat in a couple of months by putting on a topcoat of P21S. Hopefully it will hold up during the time I can't wash very much.
Maybe an E1 CSR can direct you to a distributor that would sell a consumer a one-gallon jug of the stuff.
If you don't find anything I'll ask one of my E1 contacts if gallon-sized purchases are available to consumers.
Since I have it (or will soon) I will certainly use it. I think it will work well on my wife's car because her's is outside a lot. Plus, it will be good for my family members' cars so I don't have to do them as often. But I don't care enough about any of their cars for me to buy it just for that (and they don't either).
For my car, Klasse just seems like it would be shiney but not deep. I want a lot of depth, and durability is not a large concern (but I like the idea of something lasting if it has to). I like to wax the car. That's why BF is appealing to me. It has (or is supposed to have) a lot of depth and it sounds like it can go a few months (maybe by building up coats) if it has to. However, I could be totally wrong about Klasse. Perhaps it will be real deep. I think I will try it topped with Souveran just to see (as that was the point of the kit). Maybe a side to side with BF or BF topped with Souveran. Although I'm not really "test guy" because I think it's weird to have the car look split down the middle...
You might try abay on autopia to see if anyone has some they want to get rid of. Or maybe someone who wants to try Souveran and you can split a kit with them (plus you'd get some MF towels and such).
This to me means that there is no way I will use this in the winter, even as a top coat. I'm sure it will be fine for garaged vehicles, but not on this test one which is outside in all conditions.
I have a small scratch, half an inch long couple of mil. wide on my new vehicle that I have not fixed for about a month. It is now slightly rusting, and want to fix it. It is in a inconspicuous place between bumper and body, in that grove, back quarter panel on a SUV.
What is the best way to remove the oxidation to prep area before touch up paint? Many thanks
The car didn't look that amazing when I was done. It looked similar to MPPP, clean and shiny but nothing special. However, as the hours past it got much more reflective. The look by the evening was really good. It wasn't unbelievable or anything, but it definitely stood out. I imagine another coat of SG would be even better. It feels like it will last forever too.
The SG had rather unusual behavior on my PC pad. I usually spin the pad slowly to put a small ring around it. However, the SG just flew off the sides of the pad. It didn't soak in at all. Very strange. After the initial ring, it really only took about 3-5 drops on the pad to do each new section (and you could really see it being applied, it wasn't some hard-to-see haze. Almost thought it was too many drops). I also tried the AIO on some brass, and it removes light oxidation. I think I will use it after Brasso to leave some protection on candlesticks and such. It will probably keep the brass shining much longer by preventing oxidation. They seem like very versatile products.
The autopia community forum is temporarily out of service. A new members-only forum is being built for all autopia book subscribers. More information will follow soon. If you would like to be informed when the new forum is available, please click on the link below to send us a blank email.
Does that sound to anyone like Autopia is becoming a members-only forum? I mean, maybe there will be a second one for book owners, but that wouldn't make much sense. It reads to me like it's becoming something you have to pay for. I hope that's not the case...
Dear Autopia Friend,
Thank you for registering to receive notification of the new forum. I expect to have the new forum completed by the end of October.
Yours in Better Car Care,
David Bynon
Quite frankly, I'm not quite sure.
I wanted to try out Klasse and BF on my car (I was itching to do it) so I CCD'd and QD'd the top of my trunk because it was quite clean (the front of the car was a bit buggy). I then used Meguiar's Swirl Free Polish (which was the first time for that too, and it seems great). I split the trunk in half and put AIO and then SG on one side. I let the SG sit for about 20 minutes, but not longer. I used the BF Polish on the other side, and then applied two coats of BF Protectant (hey, it seems fair because two coats can be applied back-to-back unlike SG). Each of those only sat for about a minute before being buffed. I had some trouble removing the SG (I think hand-application is the problem because it's hard to spread it around quick enough so it gets thick) so I used some QD. To be fair, I QD'd the BF side too. This was about 4 days ago, and the car's only been out of the garage twice for about 1hr total. However, I can't see any difference at all in the garage or outside (although it was overcast both times). In fact, it doesn't even look any different than the rest of the car with #26. It might just be because it's on a horizontal panel which is harder to tell, and also because it hasn't been in any bright sun. I'm going to apply BF to the whole car today (I'll use APC+ to strip it), and I'm hoping it looks better than the #26 does.
A week later, my wife's car with 1xAIO and 1xSG looks amazing. The paint is darker and glows. It's like it's a candy paint. It's noticeable every time I look at it. And this is a car where the prep-work has been minimal on it (and it's outside all the time). So I'm pretty impressed with Klasse on it. I can't wait to put a second coat of SG on.
MrDetailer, I got that same letter about Autopia. I was expecting it to be up in the next few days when the server gets straightened out. But obviously not. I haven't bought the eBook because, while I'm sure it's good, it didn't have any new info when I read the first 8 chapters. Plus, I don't like the idea of having to pay to access Autopia. I understand that hosting the site costs money, but there are plenty of free forums out there. Oh well...
With the hose nozzle on a showering spray (some force) the Klasse half beads up a lot. Some of the water runs off, but not much. The BF side beads (but not as much as the Klasse) while the water is actually spraying. But once it stops, the beads on the BF start to run together. The water slowly sheets off the trunk. It is quite distinct how one half of the trunk has a lot of beads on it, and the other half looks mostly dry with a few stream/bead lines still. It's sort of hard to tell the trunk is split while the water is spraying, but once you stop it is quite obvious.
With the hose streaming a gentle stream (like when you try to sheet the water off before drying), the Klasse side sheets off very quickly. The stream runs down it and flys off like with carnaubas. The BF side sheets off much slower. If you run the hose over the whole thing, half the trunk is dry in a second while the other half is slowly sheeting. It almost looks like the water clings to it, except if you give it time it will all sheet off. However, the surface feels very slick to the touch. It also doesn't really leave any beads left. Just a few small bead trails from where the water ran off. The Klasse side sheets mostly but still leaves some large beads (like a carnauba would).
When I did actually sheet the car after I was done washing it, I noticed that the BF patch was almost totally dry when I got around to drying it. The Klasse side was mostly dry, but still had some large beads.
I was pretty impressed with how dry the BF part was whether the water was streaming or spraying. However, if you watch it, it looks clingy like there isn't any protection. I suspect this is why people think it's gone after a few weeks. My paint in fact isn't clingy when the protection is stripped. It still beads a lot. So, I would say this clingy appearance means the BF is indeed still there. It may not look beady and pretty when it rains, but hopefully it won't look water-spotted after a rain.
A clarification is Klasse doesn't bead with the intesity of a carnauba, but that's the only comparison I can think of. It does bead a lot, though. But the beads aren't jumping off the Klasse like off of a carnauba.
As for a members-only Autopia, have a look in their Forum Feedback section for info.
So somehow beading is better in the rain then when sprayed with a hose.
http://www.protectall.com/rvs.htm
RV'ers I know love it.
I applied Meguiar's Dual Action Cleaner Polish to prepare the surface (no silicones or oils) and then put on the Blackfire. Both the Gloss Enhancing Polish and Paint Protection went on easily, would reabsorb into the pad and leave very little residue. It was very fast too.
I liked the ease of application by hand, but I really love machine application.
The DACP is of the newer generation that works best using small areas until the polish is picked up again by the pad. This stuff doesn't have any oils in my opinion which made it good to use with Blackfire. As you wipe it off, it squeaks. It diminished swirls.
Both the Blackfire polish and protectant were effortless as long as minimal amounts were put on the pad. Too much and it takes a while to have the pad remove most of the residue. It was extremely easy to remove by hand.
After the polish, the Blackfire had this great liquid shine, even on my white car. I believe that it has better results when applied by machine, and ironically, it used less of the product. But I'm sure experience accounts for some of this.
The Blackfire on my Red car still looks great after a month. I'm going to put on one more coat of Blackfire before I top with P21S.