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Store Bought Waxes Part II (No Zaino Posts)
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I thought the BF looked awesome on the whole car. So far I am very pleased with it. It really brings out the metal flake in the paint. Plus, the reflections are very clear. I'm going to try a couple more coats this weekend if it stops raining. It is incredibly easy to apply and remove. I usually use Meguiars MPPP on family member cars, and I think I am going to try a coat of BF on top of it next time I wax one of their cars to see how it looks. It's just so easy to use.
Mr. Detailer, thanks for sharing your experiences with BF. It really seems like a good product that somehow got a bit of a bad rap on Autopia. I got a bottle of a new mixture to test. I'm goint to try it out this weekend. It looks a lot like the original BF, except it is slightly bluish. Plus, it has a faint chemical smell instead of the Gold Class-like smell of the original. It is supposed to be slicker, but really I thought BF felt very slick in the first place. I sort of wonder if they just released a new formulation because of all the rumors and such that are circulating about it.
Some people in this industry are completely removed from their customers and some stay connected. Terry cares a great deal about what his customers think and what they want.
I'll pay attention to the feel when I wash my car today to see how slick it feels. However, the BF has only been on for about 2 weeks. So far, though, BF has done everything it is advertised to do. So I see no reason that it won't last the length of time it's supposed to. I'm really glad that I tried it. It's because of people like you Bretfraz, and MrDetailer and TnTitan who gave your observations on how it worked for you that I tried it. I've definitely become selective about opinions here and on Autopia, and you guys always give the straight scoop. Thanks!
I know that people tend to get "religious" in this area, but I would really like to hear from wax proponents why anyone would want to use a wax product over the newer polymer-polish approach.
I am a novice who uses Zaino, but I am not religious about it. I am merely satisfied enough not to feel the need to investigate other options. But as a novice, I am not embroiled in traditional ways of doing things, and from my uneducated perspective, I don't see why we need wax anymore.
I am highly interested in an intelligent "pitch" for wax in the context of more modern techniques. And no name calling or mud-slinging PULEASE. I like Zaino, but there are some fanatics over on "their" board who, what shall I say, tend to get carried away. :-) I do not mean to put members on that board down, I am only saying I don't want the discussion/topic I propose to go in that direction
Also, I wonder whether this is a topic that deserves its own thread. Whatever, I decided to start it here and see where it goes.
If Zaino is the perfect product for you, then no one should try to tell you it isn't. By the same token, if someone else prefers something else, it's hard to tell him that he's actually wrong. I mean, some people use products that are more expensive, are way less durable, and are probably harder to apply than Zaino (some Zymols come to mind). Yet they still feel that for them it's the better product. And for them it probably is.
I have a friend whose father was a plant manager at Ford in the 1960s and 1970s, with a specialty in paints and chemicals. My friend has never waxed his car, based upon his father's view that wax can actually damage a paint job. A lot has changed since then, and I suspect my friend's father would also not use the new polymers, either. (My friend's father is now dead so unfortunately he is not around to ask).
I am just trying to learn all I can.
If you are looking for more shine, you might consider something like Blackfire because it is so easy to use (I imagine Nu-Finish is pretty easy?) but you should probably apply it twice a year. Or, if you want something that will last as long, Klasse will last a heck of a long time (it feels like it could deflect a bullet) and gives a neat glow to the paint (and AIO has cleaners like Nu-Finish does). However, it can be fussy to apply. But, even though SG is like $20, the bottle will last you a lifetime. It only takes a few drops per panel (a few more for the hood and roof). I've heard Meguiar's #20 is pretty good too. You might feel better using it on your paint as I'm sure it's a safe product (I like Meguiar's products for being safe and doing what they say) and it should last about as long as Nu-Finish. Actually, it's sort of similar in that it's a one-step polymer with cleaners and polishes and such. Sort of the Meguiar's Nu-Finish. And it isn't too expensive (although about 2-3 times Nu-Finish).
The last time I used a wax was several years ago and it was RainDance. I had used it for about 10 years. My father liked it, so that's what I bought. I never liked the way it got all over the trim and black moulding - a real pain to remove - but man did it bead!. Then I went through a period where the wife and I just owned junker cars. Needless to say, there wasn't much detailing going on during that time! After returning to new cars (a long story) and following threads here at the E-Ranch, I ran upon this forum and started reading about things like Klasse, Blackfire, etc. and have been using mainly Klasse as of late.
I think my next detail will be a mix of the two schools of thought, however. Since I find the Klasse SG somewhat difficult to handle, I'm going to use just the AIO followed with a topper of S100, sans the SG.
I called CMA and asked about the BF shampoo. I had read several negative comments about it at Autopia and wanted some answers. After that call I decided to try the shampoo and I must admit that I loved it on the BF car. I liked the way the suds seemed to grab and lift the dirt without just running off the car like water. However, this morning I decided to QD the front in case I had picked up any bugs last night and noticed that the whole car was extra slick again. Maybe the people that complained about the slickness going away with BF did not try the shampoo either. I recommend that you try it before believing the negative feedback.
Were you not the tire expert? My 2000 Accord SE now has 35K and I am ready to get rid of the Michelin XV4's - I just don't like the way they ride when it rains. The wear bars indicate they are probably good for at least another 5K but I want to change before the winter.
I plan to go with the Dunlop Sport A2's. My question is this. What sizes could I change to without sacrificing road noise or wet weather handling. I could care less about handling of pushing the car into corners and such. I just want to book down the interstate from time to time and drive around town. Lower profile tires are ok but not important to me either but I do like the look of wider tires. All of this may be a contradiction but the most important things to me are:
1. Traction - both wet and dry.
2. Road noise
3. Smooth ride
4. Looks
5. Mileage
I had a set of Xones on my Cadillac that I loved but I believe these Dunlops are rated better for traction and that is my primary concern.
Thanks.
Earlier on, I looked at the A2 also. The Dunlops have a better traction rating (AA vs. A) and temp rating (A vs.
To sum it up, I think the X1s will easily meet your five criteria, with possibly the exception of a more firm ride than what you're currently used to. Hope it helps ....
Between those two it comes down to a pretty simple choice:
If you want a sportier-more responsive feel from your car go with the Dunlops.
If you want a smooth ride and long tire wear go with the X-One's.
35K is pretty good for the MXV4's. They're a 40K tire max. I've got 25K on mine and they're down to 3/32-4/32 tread depth. If I get another 10K I'll be happy but I don't expect to.
That said, you mentioned wanting good wet traction but you don't care about cornering hard. Wider tires will have worse wet traction because there is more water that has to be evacuated from the tire. If I were you, I'd stick with the stock size unless there were some compelling monetary reason, or if there was a tire you really wanted but just wasn't in your size. You mentioned booking down the interstate, but for that you may be more interested in a higher speed rating (if it makes you more comfortable, or if you drive at crazy speeds) than in a wider tire. A wider tire will decrease your mileage on the interstate, too.
The Dunlop A2 has been a popular choice with classic (95-99) Aurora owners because of it's price and combo of handling with wet-weather and longevity. But, a number of people have had problems with the tires having poor balancing traits (i.e. a lack of quality control). This may be the trade-off for getting a low price. I have no experience with the X-ones, but I love my MXV4 Plus's. The MXV4 Plus is newer than(a replacement for) the original MXV4, and it should last longer than the original MXV4. You might also consider the Goodyear Aquatread III's. They have excellent bad-weather ability and a long treadlife. They certainly suffice for dry cornering, but they are not a sports car tire by any means. They are on my wife's car and are quieter than the Dunlops that were on it before (some cheap ones, though). Her car isn't that quiet, though, so it's hard to tell. They look nice, but I'm not quite sure what you mean by looks being important. If that list you made is by decreasing importance (i.e. most important is listed first) then it looks like mileage is pretty low on your list. And you made no mention of price or snow traction (but I'm assuming you'd want decent snow traction, and I'm ignoring price).
So, according to Dunlop (I'm guessing a 195/65-15?), the D65 Tour might be more appropriate than the A2 because of it's ride quiet. Or the SP5000 (which I did put on my Corvette and they were worlds better than the Eagle VR gatorbacks) which would be more speed-tolerant than the A2 (and probably have less production variance).
In Michelin, you might consider the Energy MXV4 Plus, if you had the regular MXV4. The Plus has better wet handling, better winter traction, and longer life than the non-Plus. You might also consider the Pilot MXM4 which interestingly is listed as having better winter traction (although I'm thinking the tires are rated only against the others in the same category. The X-ones have an "Everday Traction" rating of 10, which is the same as the Pilot Sport...). Also, it would likely be more speed-tolerant. The X-one didn't come up in the selector...
For Goodyears, there is the Aquatread III. You also might consider the Eagle HP for the speed-handling. It has good wet traction, but probably not the best winter traction. Plus, treadlife will be short. You might consider the Regatta 2, but I probably wouldn't. They also have an interesting tire called the Ultra Grip which looks like sort of an all-season snow tire. It is supposed to have great grip in rain and in snow. They don't have much info, though. I imagine it wouldn't be particularly quiet or smooth, though (but maybe I'm just stereotyping).
I would say it depends on whether you care about snow traction. If so, I'd consider the Dunlop A2, the Goodyear Aquatread III, and maybe that Ultra Grip, and the Michelin MXV4 Plus (unless you had the Plus's and didn't like them). If you don't care, then I'd consider the Dunlop SP5000, the Goodyear Eagle HP, and still the Michelin MXV4 Plus, and also the Pilot MXM4 (even though it claims a higher snow rating, that just seems too odd to be true). But, of course, this is basically what I'd consider given the input you gave me. So it may not be what you are considering. Maybe if you expounded on what you liked best about your current front-runner.
If you want to continue discussion with me, you can email me at aurora402002@yahoo.com. Or, if you want to involve everyone (as they all had good info) then we can move over to the tires board if you just give the word (and maybe post a link to the board so we're all on the same page). Hope this helps (and sorry for the length).
waxing? and which ones do you use and what you
think works best..
There are many good ones on the market. Eagle One Wet Wipe & Shine is a personal favorite. Meguiar's #34 Final Inspection and Quik Detailer are very popular. 3M Gloss Enhancer is good but a little hard to find. Pinnacle Crystal Mist and Eimann Fabrik Clear Pearl are also nice but expensive.
Klasse users should use Sonus Acrylic Spritz, Blackfire and Platinum users use their respective sprays, and Zaino users stick with Z6.
If you want a good product that's available anywhere, look for Eagle One or Meguiar's.
Detailing sprays. I just use Quik Detailer because it's easy to find. But I only use it to remove bird crud and other immediate hazards to the paint (and with clay). I don't wipe the car down with it. I ordered some BF QD and some #34 just to try. I'll probably try the BF to wipe down after a wash just to extend the protection a little. I also ordered some BF shampoo to try.
Currently on my car is Zaino. I did a full exterior detail just last week. Here are the step and products used:
(1) Washed car with Dawn detergent
(2) Clayed paint with Clay Magic blue and a Z7 mixture
(3) Cleaned paint with a PC, yellow cutting pad, and Meguiar's DACP
(4) Polished paint with a PC, white polishing pad, and P21S GECP.
(5) Rewashed car with Z7
(6) Sealed paint with 3 coats of Zaino Z5.
(7) Removed all four wheels and cleaned/polished with Klasse AIO.
(8) Cleaned wheels with Sonus Wheel Gel
(9) Cleaned tires with Eagle One Tire Cleaner
(10) Protected tires with a test combo of Vinylex on 2 tires and Zaino Z16 on the other 2.
(11) Polished exterior glass with Bon Ami spray cleaner and #00000 steel wool
(12) Treated some trim pieces with Black Again as a test
I just washed my car this weekend, after having given it a Z treatment last weekend, and I found some "stray" Z2. I still can't see the stuff on my car.
Let me know how the Vinylex works.
What product do you recommend for getting dark scuff marks off light leather, or is my own scuffed interior doomed?
I've owned my own detailing biz or have been a partner in the past but now I'm just a hard core hobbyist. I haven't detailed a car for $$ in years.
Do you plan to combine the Z with wax at any time?
Nope. One thing I like about Zaino is its high reflectivity. I've topped other products with carnauba (Pinnacle Souveran to be exact) with very nice results but I think a topper detracts from Zaino's look.
Let me know how the Vinylex works.
I've used Vinylex for years and know it well so the test is to compare it to Z16. So far so good.
What product do you recommend for getting dark scuff marks off light leather, or is my own scuffed interior doomed?
Scuffs are a real challenge. You have to determine if the leather was damaged or just dirtied/soiled. First step for me would be to use some leather cleaner like Eagle One's and a small stiff brush and try to scrub it off. Leather is hardy stuff so as long as harsh cleaners are not used you can be a bit aggressive. If the leather is seriously damaged then try a product called Leatherique http://www.leatherique.com It's more of a leather restorer than a cleaner. Last ditch attempt would be a household cleaner like Soft Scrub but only if other attempts didn't work.
Good luck. Let us know how the leather comes out.
My problem now is the black shoe polish scuff mark at the passenger door threshold and some areas on my leather seats where apparently some dye from my sheepskin seat covers stained my seats. (You'd think they would have figured out how not to have the seat covers stain the seats.)
I tried Zaino leather cleaner with no success, and then I went over to an auto zone, where the nice salesman allowed me to test another brand. That brand also did not work, so then I went to Wal-Mart and purchased Black Magic Leather Magic Stick. It is dark in the garage now, so I can't see how effective the leather stick is, but it seems to work a little better than simple leather cleaners.
If it does not work, I suspect the next step will be to ask the Lexus service department if anything can be done.
thanks for the web site. I might just try that product, but I suspect that when there is black ink, shoe polish or dye from sheepskin seat covers on the leather, the only way to completely get rid of it is to do some type of redye job on it.
Has anyone else seen this issue?
Since my car is black, I was even more paranoid about that!
I think that if one is careful, keeping the blade clean and perhaps slowing down a little to prevent hitting the car, one should be able to avoid scratching the car.
If it is an issue with dirt, couldn't dirt be a culprit in all methods>
But any kind of wax/polish would be better than nothing for now. I know what you mean about the drive; I just put 1900 miles on my car over the last 2 weeks and fresh protection made a big diff in the post-drive clean up.
Last week, after putting liquid GoldClass on the top of my Accord, I left my car in the driveway. You guessed it, it rained. Large beads of water over the entire car. This time I used one of the towels. I had to wring it out 4 times or so, but the ease of use and finished product are great. I'm sold, no more sheepskin for me.
http://www.microfibertech.com
So I'm driving past my not-so-local Harley Davidson dealer and decide to check out the latest Hogs. Like I'm gonna buy one being unemployed and all.....
So I'm looking at all the cool accessories and remember recent talk about S100 cycle products being very close to P21S products, if not the same.
$39.73 later I'm walking out with a jar of S100 carnauba wax and the S100 paint cleaner along with a K&N filter cleaning kit which I really did need. Why did I do this? I have Pinnacle Souveran carnauba which is maybe the best carnauba on the market, I just detailed my car with a polymer sealant so I don't *need* a carnauba, and I could probably mooch some S100 or P21S from a buddy if I really really needed to try it.
But noooooooooo...... Mr. No-Money-No-Job has got to buy a car care product he definitely does not need. It must be something in the air lately as I've bought $50 worth of microfiber towels (I've got a nice stack already) and $600 worth of stereo equipt.
I'd better find a job quickly.
He did a incredible job and the paint now has a good deal of reflectivity, more than it ever did before. I bought this car used when it was 1.5 years old and I guess the previous owner didn't take good care of the paint. I have tried to over the past 4 years but never got results like this detailer did. Incredible shine !
The Sandman :-)
Like I should talk, I went on an online spending spree last week - MF's from yosteve, Klasse & 303 from CMA, Clay Magic from CM, and Plexus from I can't remember - all of which gave the d/w a perfect excuse to go to the salon!
Speaking of the Clay Magic, I think I've finally found the clay I like best. Very sticky, great pliability and no streaking. It did a fantastic job on the new (to me) '94 Protege I just purchased. Man, was that car needy! Compared to the synthetics I've tried, Clay Magic wins hands down!
1. Use a wax remover to clean off the old wax. I used 3M Tar, Wax and Tree Sap Remover.
2. Use a claybar to remove embedded pollutants if the finish is not mirror smooth. CMA of course recommends Pinnacle clay bar, but Mothers, or Clay Magic are excellent. In colder weather I prefer a softer clay like Meguiars.
3. Use a glaze as an undercoat. CMA recommends Meguiar's Machine Glaze. But I used S100 Gloss Enhancing Polish. P21S Paint Cleansing Lotion is the same, and CMA's tech support said that 3M and other Meguiars glazes could also be used.
4. Top the glaze with either Blackfire Gloss Enhancing Polish, or Klasse All In One. I couldn't believe the difference when I put the Blackfire Gloss Enhancing Polish over the S100 polish. The reflection got amazingly clear. Definitely better than just using the Blackfire Gloss Enhancing Polish alone like I did on 2 other cars.
5. Use Blackfire Paint Protectant applied by a foam polishing pad orbital. It works the protectant in better.
6. A day or two later after the Blackfire has had time to completely set, top with a paste Carnauba as an optional step. CMA recommends their own Pinnacle of course, but I've found P21S/S100 to be an excellent topper over Blackfire. I believe that 3M Perfect-It Show Car Paste Wax would also provide excellent results. It needs to be a Carnauba Wax, not a Cleaner/Wax.
When my neighbor and I did a final inspection of his dark green car, it was incredible. I will definitely duplicate the procedure on my own vehicles come spring.
I definitely need a porter cable buffer. I think I'll start hinting for Christmas.
I believe that the danger comes when dragging the blade over portions of the car that are dry. It sets up a friction that causes wide, fine scratches.
The solution is to be very careful not to overlap on dry sections when using the CWB.
I myself will no longer take the risk. It is back to white, 100% cotton, US only bath towels for the entire drying process for me.
Too bad. The CWB is a wonderfully efficient drying instrument.
They are softer than cotton and more absorbent.
I really like the Absorber, can be purchased at Walmart, or Checkers/AutoZone/PepBoys/CarQuest. This is a soft rubber pad that sucks up water. It can simply be placed on top of the wet area and it will blot. Absorbs an incredible amount of water. Touch up with a terry towel to catch the residue. It's not fast however.
Apparently the less the rubbing, the fewer the scratches.
I detailed my brother's Grand Cherokee and Ram quad cab this weekend (DACP + S100 = awesome results) and used a big m.fiber towel to dry them. He'd never seen m.fiber and was totally amazed. The towels are worth every penny.
I am in the market for a small 6" hand buffer. I've looked at the standard Porter Cable, etc. but thought I'd come here for thoughts and reviews.
I currently live in an apartment and wax my two cars every 4-6 months or so using Meguiar's #7 and #26. I'm looking for an inexpensive hand buffer that I can use to simply remove the polish and wax (I don't mind putting it on by hand, seems easier than with a buffer).
Any thoughts and recomendations across all price ranges would be appriciated.