Store Bought Waxes Part II (No Zaino Posts)

mwhdev · December 2002

I found a place that carried both MPPP and #20. Tri City Paint on Miramar; they carry a lot of detailing supplies. I couldn't decide which to buy, six of one half a dozen the other. I decided to give the MPPP a whirl because it appears to be more advanced and the #20 does have some cleaning properties that I felt were not needed for a new car. I'll let you know how the MPPP works out.

terceltom1 · December 2002

I have to disagree with you about the duration of protection that Nu-Finish can give you. I have been using Nu-Finish for years on all of my vehicles with great results. It truly is the "once a year car protectant" as advertised. My cars will bead for a full year with Nu-Finish. Any thing like bird droppings will just rinse off with Nu-Finish applied. Also, it is very inexpensive and easily applied in the liquid form. In the past it was always recommended #1 by Consumer Reports year after year.

tmart · December 2002

Nu-Finish isn't that bad, but others are better. Long ago before going to the forbidden one, I bought Nu-Finish because of their "once a year protection". Was very surprised when I read the instructions on the bottle. Truly false advertising, since it says to apply a SECOND application!

bretfraz · December 2002

I'm glad NuFinish is working out for you but the controlled tests I and other have conducted shows the protection degrades significantly in 6-8 weeks.

porknbeans · December 2002

I'll admit that I am not a detailing god, nor do I wish to be. That being said, I've used Nu-Finish with great results on my wife's car. It brought back a luster when nothing else would and the luck that I had with the length of the lustre/finish and ease of application make it a great product to me. However, you have said that there are products out there that will do the same for a longer lasting finish.....I'm listening. What products are you referring to? Where can I get them and how do you put it on? BTW, if it involves clay bars, washing 6 times and using 4 different products I'll stick with the Nu-Finish. No offense to you guys that can do that but for me it is neither therapeutic or worth my time. Thanks in advance.

mrdetailer · December 2002

I used it on a truck that was only a couple of years old. Looked good initially, but after 4 months, it left a mat finish, and by six months it appeared to have harmed the clearcoat. Took some work to get it back to what it was. The solvents are really strong, so if your wife's car was oxidized then it might clean it up because of those abrasive solvents.

But of course if it works for you then use it. I use different products on different cars myself because that's what works best.

Consumer Reports. I bought Consumer Reports recommended child seat over an easily adjustible one that they didn't recommend because it was too expensive. Regreted it eversince. Now it's a guide, not an absolute. On waxes, they don't even test the really good stuff.

An all in one product that is amazing on the Carnauba side is 3M Cleaner Wax Light Oxidation Remover. Better than Mothers or Meguiars Gold Class. On the sealant side Klasse All In One is probably the best one step product.

rjs200240 · December 2002

It brought back a luster when nothing else would and the luck that I had with the length of the lustre/finish and ease of application make it a great product to me.

I guess to me that would be a drawback to Nu-Finish. If it is so strong that it can remove oxidation and such, it seems way too strong for normal use. You said nothing else would work, but I imagine you mean no other protectant. Paint cleaners would have worked wonders, I'd bet. But that isn't something you want to use all the time, or on clean, high-gloss paint. But if Nu-Finish is that strong, you have no choice but to get that level of cleaning when you use it, even if the paint is already in perfect shape. Protectants aren't meant to restore gloss and luster. They are meant to maintain it. Most all-in-one products have very mild cleaners that are suitable for frequent use, but they won't ususally bring back paint in bad condition (although sometimes multiple applications and a lot of working them in might work). Nu-Finish really sounds too strong for regular use on nice paint. If you want to use it to clean up the finish, then maybe you should just use it when there isn't much gloss to the paint. Then switch to a milder protectant to keep the gloss Nu-Finish restores.

Bretfraz and MrDetailer mentioned Klasse All-In-One which is a better, longer-lasting product. Also, #20 and MPPP are good store-bought alternatives. There is no magic about Nu-Finish. There are certainly other products out there that will work as well or better, if that's what you are looking for.

I really like MPPP for an all-in-one. I used to use it all the time, and still use it on family member's cars. It gives a great shine and is very easy to use. Plus, there is a companion cleaner (Medallion Premium Paint Cleaner) that you can use if the paint is too badly oxidized. No 4+ step procedure, just one or possibly two when the paint is bad.

Although, really, if you are happy with Nu-Finish, then you may as well stick with it. These alternatives are if you are looking for something more than Nu-Finish (that will probably cost more, too).

protege_fan · December 2002

Heh...here in my area of Canada, a tin of Nu-finish costs under $10.00 CDN. My bottle of #20 cost $25.00. I've used both.

That said, I'd rather buy the #20, most for the reasons stated above (ie. too harsh, etc).

bretfraz · December 2002

Mr. D, RJS, and P Fan made excellent points. But ultimately it's up to you. If Nufinish is meeting your needs and you feel its a good value, that's OK by me. I'm glad you are taking care of your cars; so many people don't.

porknbeans · December 2002

I've been reading posts here for several months, but because of the circles I travel in I don't have a great understanding of the products and approaches to doing the detailing stuff. And as I mentioned earlier, I also don't have the interest to. I wax my vehicles twice a year wether they need it or not (dodging rotten tomatoes from the serious detailers). I'm envious of a nice washed, cleaned, waxed and detailed car but for me it doesn't stay that way for long.

Thanks for the list of products and saying it in a simple way. Now I just need to find Klasse All in one or MPPP. Any ideas where to find this stuff? Auto parts store? Wally world? Target? Sorry to be a pain on this.

mrdetailer · December 2002

Meguiars auto parts stores, or auto paint supply stores(best) if they don't have MPPP they can order it since those stores usually carry Meguiars.

Klasse. I've only seen it on the Internet. Klassdirect.com is the least expensive source, especially for the 500L or Liter sizes. (sale going on right now)

americanflag · December 2002

droppings, thanks, Bretfraz it works great! Seems to dissolve them.

splogue · December 2002

I've used Nu-Finish in the past. I really didn't have a problem with the durability, but it stains trim like mad. The car I was using it on had a lot of black trim and I found myself using other products to try to get the white Nu-Finish stain off when I was finished.

I tried the Zymol that Consumer Reports recommended. It was thick and fairly hard to apply. It also left wax in every nook and cranny of my car -- between panels, around the hood, everywhere. Even my wife commented on how messy it left the car.

I recently found a good mass-market product that I can highly recommend that has great durability, is easy to apply, and doesn't stain trim or leave wax dust in all the cracks. It is Mothers Reflections polish. It is a synthetic, like Nu-Finish, so it has great durability. Only two drawbacks. It isn't as readily available as the others, so if your local autoparts store doesn't have it you may have to order it if you want to try it. The other drawback? It smells like cheap men's cologne! Odd, huh?

If you can find it, you'll like it. Cheap, too. Around $10 USD a bottle and a little goes a long way.

Has anyone else tried this?

Sean

caddyjet3 · December 2002

I have a pearl colored Caddy DTS, I was thinking
of buying BlackFire or Klasse, any opinions
on which is better for light colored cars.

Also what would the difference from using a
clay bar vs Meguiars Medallion premium
paint cleaner?

thanks.
caddyjet3

mrdetailer · December 2002

As far as a sealant is concerned, a white vehicle will look good with either Blackfire or Klasse. Here's your easiest combination.

Klasse All-In-One -- cleans and provides durability.

Blackfire Paint Protectant -- Much easier to use than Klasse Sealant Glaze which can be real PITA if applied too thick, which is very common. I recommend 2 coats a week apart. Better look, easier to apply, hides swirl marks. Blackfire Paitn Protectant is the most gentle on paint of any liquid, the Klasse SG can be harsh.

Meguiars MPC cleans off road scum and surface dirt. A clay bar removes embedded pollutants that a cleaner won't remove. They are completely different. I see no reason to use MMPC if you decide to use Klasse AIO.

I always Clay Bar once or twice a year when completely stripping then applying new coats.

bretfraz · December 2002

I feel Klasse offers a bit more reflectivity than Blackfire which is formulated to mimic carnauba's glow. But both would be nice on the Caddy.

Based on what I've read and know about Klasse SG, I'd never use it. Just ain't worth the hassle.

terceltom1 · December 2002

Could you please share what you know about Klasse SG. I was going to give it a try. I do already have the Klasse AIO but did not use it yet.

caddyjet3 · December 2002

Thank you gentlemen, I like the Klasse+Blackfire
combo idea, I just clayed, Meguiars#7, 2 coats
of 3M Paste and 3 coats of #26 so I should be
good for a while, but probably at the end of
Feb I'll put on the K+B.

I also want to say how much I enjoy reading
this forum, My DTS looks like a different
car compared to 6 months ago, just because
of the products and ideas from this board

thanks again

Happy Holidays

splogue · December 2002

I've never tried Klasse Sealant Glaze. However, I've heard that it can be difficult to apply it thinly enough. Too thick application makes it hard to remove completely and causes smearing. The people who post generally report wiping up the streaks as they appear for several days after they thought they got it all off.

On the other hand, everytime someone posts complaining about this, a few people speak up and say it works for them and offer tips for how to get it thinner. My feeling is that it is more difficult to make work than other products.

Sean

rjs200240 · December 2002

TercelTom, if you already have AIO, I think SG is a great compliment to it. It can be a pain to apply, though. If you don't have a lot of time, then maybe something like Blackfire is better (or if you have a dark car, Blackfire will probably be better). As long as you are patient with SG it isn't too bad. It helps to be able to apply thin coats, but just do the best you can. Apply one coat, let it sit for a bit (don't let it sit all day or anything if it's parked outside as you don't want dust and crud to fall on it), then buff it off. Buff it the best you can. Then, just make sure you wash the car before you apply a second coat. In this way, any parts that weren't buffed well will get fixed by the wash. This is how I always apply multiple coats of SG, and I've never had any hazing or streaking problems. But it does require some patience to get multiple coats on the car. I usually put them on about a week apart. If you do notice streaking during that week, just be cognizant of it while washing. Maybe wash those areas twice to ensure it all gets buffed off.

bretfraz · December 2002

Had some problems getting on the net since my last post. But the others have summed up the basic issues with SG. IMO, it's a product that's very difficult to use and the results/effort ratio is somewhat questionable. I also found out some of its chemical composition and it ain't that impressive. Since AIO does an already excellent job, is lots easier to use, and can be topped with a carnauba for a great look, I question the practical need for SG. If I really want a high gloss, durable finish I'd go with Product Z.

mrdetailer · December 2002

I use it on a true red Mazda, and my White Subaru. It had a unique combination of very clear reflections, yet covers up swirl marks, and adds depth like a carnauba. The Klasse with SG is beautiful, but has too much of a candy apple look for me.

If you don't put much on the applicator, Blackfire Paint Protectant is easy to apply and dries in a few minutes. I've never left it on longer than an hour, and that was in 40 degree temperatures. When it's ready it buffs off quickly and streak free. I think it's pretty failsafe. CMA Technical support is very helpful if you have questions.

mikegold_1966 · December 2002

I have been using Finish First Products on my Honda Accord that past two years with outstanding results. Here is a website for more information on the product line:

http://www.finishfirstpolish.com/

tntitan · December 2002

I have a white car and a dark green car. I currently have Klasse on the white car and BF on the dark green car. I love all of these products.

I tried the BF first on the white car and 6 months later put the Klasse twins on. I definitely like the Klasse better on white. IMHO it is almost no more trouble than BF to use. The AIO and the BF polish are both easy on easy off. The BF protectant is also easy on easy off. The SG was simple to use as well but it required one additional step to prevent the "SG haze". After letting the SG cure overnight in the garage I first buffed with a wet MF towel and then rebuffed each section with a dry MF towel. That's it. It added maybe 10 minutes of mild buffing and worked perfectly.

Both of these products work great but have different looks. The Klasse is more reflective (which I really like on the white car) while the BF has a wet,deep look (which is better IMO on the dark color cars). Both are fairly easy to work with but the common consensus is that the Klasse longevity is hard to beat (maybe Zaino).

Whatever you decide be sure to clay first. Claying is so simple you won't believe it and it really prepares the surface.

terceltom1 · December 2002

What exactly is the process of clay barring?

tntitan · December 2002

I have only clayed my vehicles 5 or 6 times so I am not an expert. Maybe Bretfaz or Mr. Detailer will correct me if I lead you astray.

Claying a car is like prepping the surface for polishing (compare it to sanding a wood surface before painting). It removes contaminants like brake dust, rail filings from railroad cars when new cars are shipped around the country, insect remains, or any other crud that prevents your paint surface from being perfectly smooth. After you clay the car your polish and/or wax will go on and off easier and you will not need as much of it.

The actual process is pretty simple. Wash your car to get as much surface dirt off as possible. Lubricate a section of the car with either detail spray or carwash soap and water and then rub the clay over the surface until it glides back and forth smoothly without "catching" on the surface...usually on two or three passes over any given area will be all it takes. The front of your car and the lower side panels will usually have the most crud on them. It is important that you keep the surface you work on lubricated so that the clay bar slides easily and it is critical that you do not drop the clay bar and reuse it.

Check the bar every so often and when it looks dirty or has contaminants of any kind over it, fold it over until a clean surface is visible and continue. Most bars will clean 6-12 average size cars easily.

There are many clay bars available and from what I have read almost all of them are fine to use except the Meguiars clay. Mothers makes one that is easily found at auto stores but if you search around most of the experts seem to think that the Clay Magic bars are the best. I use one called the Erazer.

The only way you will damage your car using one of these is by dropping and getting something in the bar and then rubbing it against your car paint. Once you use one you will see that they are wonderful, easy to use, and inexpensive. It only takes me about 30 minutes to do my Accord but might take 45 minutes to do a full sized car. It is not difficult labor at all.

After you do it once it will go a lot faster. Then you can just do it as needed. It is so easy it is not that big of a deal to do the whole car before polishing every time.

mrdetailer · December 2002

Couple of additional suggestions.

I like to put on a wax or "adhesive remover" first so the clay will be removing embedded contaminants, not wax. The job goes even faster then. 3M Adhesive, Sap and Wax Remover can be bought at Walmart, or many other Paint Prep products found at an auto paint supply store are even cheaper.

Keep a towel handy to wipe any runs. If left to dry, it may stain the paint.

Use plenty of lubricant. Easiest one to use is a pint spray bottle with 2 tablespoons of Auto Wash Soap added to the water.

terceltom1 · December 2002

Thanks so much for the thorough description of clay barring.

bclough · December 2002

An article -- about us!

http://www.nytimes.com/2002/12/20/automobiles/20AUTO.html

Brenda

bretfraz · December 2002

http://autos.msn.com/advice/standardart.aspx?contentid=4020051&src=404&MSID=951813BC298A4E09842EFD8979763858

bretfraz · December 2002

The link above is to MSN which has an article about detailing, including a streaming video.

Thanks for the NYT article, Brenda.

beachnut · December 2002

Rumor has it he's bringing me a PC! When he does, I'll be hitting up mrdetailer for his experiences with DACP and water spots - iirc he had quite a time until he found the right fix ;-) Once I take care of the spots, etc., I think I'm going to try the AIO with the next gen BF topper. Should look fabulous on my black Protege!

vincent02 · December 2002

Hi everyone,

I just got my used car (98 Civic). I realized that there are something (it looks like a fingerprint) on the paint above driver side door.(You can see from image link)

http://www.geocities.com/soft-master/111-1128_IMG.JPG

I don't know what is that. It looks like fingerprint. It has couple of them in the driving side area. It seems that "fingerprint like" dirt are not on the surface. It wouldn't come from car wash. I used Meguiar's Cleaner Wax today and it didn't help. Does anyone know what is that? Does it help with some other wax product?

Moreover, I heard some product called Clay Bar from Mothers. Do anyone know whether it helps?

Any comment and recommendation are welcome!!

Thanks a lot!

Vince

splogue · December 2002

I don't know what that is, but I would definitely try the Mothers clay kit. This is a great, easy to use product.

It is quite possible that it will take the fingerprint out. I think it is some sort of embedded contamination, which is what clay bars are for.

Sean

mrdetailer · December 2002

If it's embedded on the surface, but not under the paint a clay bar is your best bet.

mralan · January 2003

Does anyone have an opinion or experiences with Liquid Glass? Is it recommended on new surfaces?

mrdetailer · January 2003

Surprizingly, when I used this sealant I neither got lasting durability, nor long lasting shine.

bretfraz · January 2003

I've used it fraternal twin, Finish First, with good results. Its an old sealant formulation that's been around many years. Excellent gloss, decent durability, very little cleaning power. If your car is swirled, stained, or shows light oxidation you will need to use a mild polish prior to LG. But on a new car it works fine.

A step below Zaino and Klasse as far as polymer sealants go. But easy to use and reasonably affordable. And better than 90% of the stuff you see at retail.

mralan · January 2003

What wax would you use if your top priorty was protection from UV rays and pollutants?

If protection and durable was more of a priorty than reflectiveness on a new finish?

bretfraz · January 2003

Polymer sealants are the way to go. Much tougher than any wax-based product.

Read thru the posts here and you'll see some of the brands we use and recommend.

mralan · January 2003

After reading through many posts I think I'm going to give Klasse AIO and high gloss sealant on my new red Dodge truck.

Did I read somewhere that you can use AIO as a car wash? Does that work well?

bretfraz · January 2003

Don't know why anyone would want to do that. At the very least it would make for an extremely expensive shampoo.

Use a shampoo made just for the job. There are many on the market.

rjs200240 · January 2003

Actually, I remember reading that somewhere too. I checked the bottle and the directions that came with it, and neither one says to use as a carwash. Really, though, I can't imagine it would make a good carwash at all (I'd think it would make quite a poor one). It would be like trying to use a cleaner/wax as a carwash.

mralan · January 2003

Do you think PUPP compares favorably to Klasse?

bretfraz · January 2003

The new formulation might but I can't say for sure. I haven't tried the new PUPP. AIO is tried and true and is a safer bet. But both should work well.

mralan · January 2003

Is it feasible to use both polymer sealers and wax? I'm thinking Klasse AIO followed by Blitz (or another fine Carnauba paste waxes).

Both supposedly have easy applications, but I don't know if you should mix them.

bretfraz · January 2003

AIO & Blitz is a popular combo.

I think its fine to experiment with wax/sealant combos as long as the wax is on top of the sealant and not the other way 'round. Sealants bond best to clean, uncoated surfaces but you can use wax as a topper to most anything you want.

chinkapin · January 2003

Just bought a 2002 PT Cruiser, very red. Asked my salesman what polish he would recommend and he said Zymol. All that Wal Mart carries is the Zymol Cleaner Wax. Goes on real easy and comes off easer. BUT!! Are we talking "Good Wax"?
What is everyone down on Zaino about? Please explain.
Thanks

bretfraz · January 2003

Nope, not gonna do it. Read the posts, all 2602 of them.

OK, some Cliff's Notes:

Both are brands of car appearance products. There are no two brands that have a more loyal, devoted, and passionate following than Zaino and Zymol. Spend some time searching the net and you will find literally thousands of posts discussing both brands. It will blow your mind.

The Zymol you see at places like WalMart is made by Turtle Wax under a licensing agreement. Its nothing like the super expensive Zymol products you see elsewhere. The quality of the store-bought Zymol is average at best but better than some $5.00 wax.

Zaino distribution is extremely limited: Buy direct, from a local distributor, or Ecklers.com.

That's all I'm saying (for now).

mrdetailer · January 2003

Then I would recommend Blackfire Paint Protectant from Properautocare.com There are endless complaints about Klasse Sealant glaze and it's difficulty of use. Blackfire is literally the most gentle liquid I've ever used on my conventional red vehicle. If you do this combo.

S100 Shine Enhancing Paint Cleaner

Klasse All In One.

Blackfire Paint Protectant 2 coats.

P21S/S100 Carnauba wax.

It will be durable and look better than you can imagine, even on a new car.

Store Bought Waxes Part II (No Zaino Posts)

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