Store Bought Waxes Part II (No Zaino Posts)

bretfraz · April 2003

Well, there are many excellent sealants on the market to choose from. A few brands to consider:

Klasse
Blackfire
Platinum
Liquid Glass
Autoglym
Zaino which has its own discussion thread here.

There are others but those come to mind. Like most sealants, to get the best results you'll need to use a mild polish to remove swirls and prep the paint for sealing. Some of the above companies sell their own pre-sealant polish or you'll have to use another brand to get the job done.

There are a few "one step" cleaner/sealants. Klasse All In One is probably the best. Meguiar's #20 has very mild cleaners in it as does Liquid Glass.

If you have specific questions about certain products, feel free to ask and we'll try to help.

bretfraz · April 2003

It has a reputation for losing its beads quickly and starts to sheet water instead. The product is working fine and still protecting, just not beading. Very common with AIO and SG.

terceltom1 · April 2003

I just did two of my cars with Klasse and I wasn't overly immpressed with the smoothness of the finish after applying this product. I was a longtime user of Nu-Finish liquid before I decided to try Klasse AIO and Sealant. The finished application of Klasse was not as smooth as the finished application of Nu-Finish. A rag set on the hood after applying Nu-Finish would just glide across the hood with very little effort, not so with Klasse. I only tried Klasse because I thought I might be doing my two new cars(2001 and 2002) an injustice by only spending $4.00 for the bottle of Nu-Finish. But I guess sometimes the most expensive is not always the best product.

arcticman · April 2003

I've used their 3-step process finishing off with carnauba for years with good results. So, I'm now wondering if finishing with the gold class would be a better choice since it's polymer-based thus (possibly) longer lasting. However, if its considered a cleaner will it compromise the efficacy of the cleaner/polish steps?

bretfraz · April 2003

Yes, its considered a cleaner wax. Its polishing ability is pretty strong (not like NuFinish or anything) in order to get the gloss that Gold Class can deliver. It doesn't last too long but it does shine well. A good product for those who value looks over durability.

The polish that comes in the 3 step is stronger than what's in GC. The real question is which one works better for your needs? If you wax only once or twice a year you'll need a product with more "bite" to remove the old wax, swirls, stains, oxidation, etc. You can follow up with GC and top with a pure carnauba like Meguiar's #26 Hi Tech Wax or whatever is in your kit.

Are you using a paint cleaning clay prior to polishing? You should..... makes polishing easier and provides better results overall.

arcticman · April 2003

Step 1 cleaner and step 2 polish is good enough for me. I just want something that will preserve the gloss from the polish for as long as possible. I'll consider trying different products of known durability. This is for a white vehicle that spends most of the time garaged.

mralan · April 2003

Should I apply a glaze before waxing? Presently I use SEPC about once every two months before applying S100. Does that perform the same function?

If I should use a glaze, which one? (Meg's 7)?

bretfraz · April 2003

I don't think a glaze is required but you certainly can use one if you like.

The SEPC is very much like a glaze with mild polishing ability mixed in; milder than a SMR.

Meguiar's #7 is fine as is 3M IHG and my fave, One Grand Omega Glaze. If you can borrow some from a friend, try it on a section of your car to see if the results are what you want.

mralan · May 2003

Bretfraz,

Do you prefer One Grand products (Omega Glaze and Blitz wax) over SEPC and S100?

What combo do you use on your vehicle?

bretfraz · May 2003

I was and am a huge fan of One Grand in general and think Omega Glaze is the best product of its kind available. But I've got to give the edge to the S100 products. S100 carnauba is easier to work with and doesn't leave residue like Blitz. And I like the mild polishing ability of SEPC, I think it makes the product more flexible.

But ask me tomorrow and I may change my mind :-)

I'm currently using a polymer sealant on my car. I don't have either One Grand product in my inventory. For carnaubas I currently have S100, Pinnacle Souveran, and some Zymol Vintage (that $1100 wax).

pghtiburon · May 2003

I finally got my hands on some Meguiars #83, and I'm looking forward to using it to see if I can finally rid my car of swirls (as Meguiars #9 didn't quite do it for me)...I'm a bit concerned though...will I end up creating more swirls than I remove? I'm using a Dual Action Polisher with a cutting pad, so I'm thinking I should be safe...any advice would be appreciated..thanks

bretfraz · May 2003

This is currently my favorite polish. The best thing about #83 DACP is that it buffers down from a fine cut cleaner to a milder polish with buffing. Its almost impossible to screw up and because of that many of us serious detailers recommend it. It won't correct serious problems but its close to the perfect polish as there is.

Start with the PC on 3 or 4, medium pressure, work on a section no more than 18"x18". You'll notice the product getting sticky as it slowly turns from liquid to powder. After this point crank up the speed to 5 or 6, ease up on the pressure and let the machine do the work. You're done when there is virtually no polish to wipe off with a towel.

After this your paint should look fantastic. There should be no real need for an SMR. I usually follow up with some very mild polish from P21S or Pinnacle for a little extra gloss prior to waxing or sealing but that's your call.

Happy buffing!! :-)

mralan · May 2003

Bretfraz,

I picked up a bottle of Meg #7 to use before S100 primarily because it was literally around the corner. If that doesn't workout I'm going to try Omega Glaze topped with S100.

peachy1 · May 2003

well what about ZAMOL? isn't this wax suppose to be very good? anyone tried using this?

peachy1 · May 2003

wrong spelling... ZYMOL that is.

bretfraz · May 2003

What to say about Zymol....... well, a lot actually but I'll be brief.

Zymol makes a line of boutique products that appeal to those who want to use an expensive product line, can afford to, and in a way want to impress others that they use it. There's nothing really bad in their line but they do sell image and a sense of elitism more than they sell a killer product. As long as you're aware that you're paying for status as much as performance (I'm sure you can think of cars that are like this) then Zymol is fine. There are people out there who absolutely worship the stuff.

There is a Zymol product sold in retail stores that is actually made by Turtle Wax under a branding agreement. Its not the same quality as the expensive Zymol you'd buy online. Consider the store bought Zymol as a high-end Turtle Wax, which would equate to a car wax version of a high-end Hyundai or Kia.

If you have questions about a specfic Zymol product, feel free to ask.

div2 · May 2003

I think Zymol is a teriffic "show" wax but you do have to apply it every month of so if you drive your car on a daily basis. At the 1990 BMW CCA Oktoberfest Chuck Bennett personally applied Zymol Concours to my Cinnabar Red 535is, and I have to say that the car looked gorgeous.

swordfish555 · May 2003

Have tried most waxes & now use Griots best of show applied with an orbital machine. Tried Zaino but was not impressed. Stay away from the cleaner waxes. They are too abrasive.

inkie · May 2003

Used a lot of products in my 70 years, I must say that Zymol is slightly better in gloss, much easier to use, lasts as long as the other brands, bottle is expensive at 12.00 bucks but you can get it on sale for 8.00. You have to follow direction to obtain the finish you desire especially the water spray to set hardness. When I look at the ingredients I am mystified at what it contains besides the wax but it works.

lapvn · May 2003

What do you guys use to brighten up your tires? Armor all and Wet tires just doesn't do the trick for me anymoore?

bretfraz · May 2003

What are you looking for? That super shiny look or something more satiny and natural?

The high gloss shine products are terrible for your tires. They're silicone oil based which stains body trim, can stain paint, erodes the rubber, attracts dirt like a magnet, and accelerate UV and ozone damage. But they do make tires look shiny, don't they?? ;-)

There are several excellent water-based rubber protectants that work well and are safe for tires and paint. Zaino Z16, for example, is very good as are products from Vinylex, Eagle One, Meguiars, 303, Pinnacle, Mothers, and many others.

mralan · May 2003

Bretfraz,

I got my best results so far with Meg's 7 and P21S!

My question is, are glazes, s.g. Meg 7 and Omega Glaze abrasive? If I use them monthly on my new finish will I have a problem?

div2 · May 2003

Bret is dead on; I use Vinylex or the vinyl/rubber protectant Griots sells.

bretfraz · May 2003

No, glazes have no appreciable abrasive content. Obviously each product is a little different and a few seem to have a small amount (1% or so) of a light abrasive but that's likely there to help the product work better, kinda like adding salt to a pot of water in order to speed up boiling.

Glad you found a combo you're happy with. :-)

lapvn · May 2003

bret,

I want the shine and wet look but always give a priority to the body.

I have to see your car, you must have an impecable car.

So as I understand it, Armor all is bad for the tires ? Same with Wet Tire? both store bought

I am placing 2nd order of Zaino this week, I guess I will have to add that one on to my shopping list.

Bret, your suppose to help keep my shopping list down

bretfraz · May 2003

How can I help you keep your list down when I can't manage that feat myself?? :-)

In the past couple months I've received or purchased 27 new products to test and eval. I've got to be pushing 100 individual car care items in my inventory. Don't ask me what I'm gonna do with all this stuff, I only have one car...

Anything that says "tire shine" or "tire wet" and leaves a glossy, oily look on tires is usually bad for them. I know that Armor All has reformulated their original protectant and its better but they do offer several products under the name AA so I can't tell which one you have.

If you discover a way to keep shopping lists to a minimum, please LMK. I need all the help I can get.

gatorm6 · May 2003

For my tires, I use Blackfire Gel tire and wheel cleaner. Then I apply 303 Aerospace protectant to the tires. This leaves a clean natural look.

peachy1 · May 2003

i meant the store walmart variety ZYMOL. i hear that they are not really from turtle wax ... that this is just a rumour. is this true? anyways, how is this store-variety-zymol compares to the others like meguire? meguire is shiny but doesn't really last i hear.

peachy1 · May 2003

how is the armour all bad? silicone base eats rubber somehow? i thought silicone is actually good for rubber? is there an explanation i'm missing?

peachy1 · May 2003

i guess my real question is what to get/use in terms of wax and tire wax.... i don't wanna get something that needs to be ordered over the net. something i can get over the counter at some auto store would be nice. i don't want to apply 5 coats of something just so it's a little more shinier than it needs to be.... and defintely i don't wanna apply this every week or so since i rather be out mtn biking.

i use to use something called liquid glass... bought many yrs ago. is NU-Finish the thing i'm looking for? somebody did a test and he concluded that even the zymol from walmart was shinier and more durable than most.

bretfraz · May 2003

Let me see if I can clear up some of this info for you:

ZYMOL - Simply stated, there are two types of Zymol products on the market; one is sold by high end boutique-type retailers and online stores, the other sold in mass merchant stores (Walmart, Target, etc), auto parts stores and warehouse clubs. The Zymol products sold in the boutique retailers is considered the "real Zymol". Its expensive, high quality stuff. The Zymol products sold in big stores is really made by Turtle Wax under a licensing agreement. The only Zymol that's in these products is the name. Imagine Rolex selling their name only (not their engineering or design or mfr'ing, just the name) to a company that made real inexpensive watches, and you were able to buy those "Rolex" watches at Walmart. The Zymol/Turtle Wax agreement is sort of the same thing.

ARMOR ALL - The bad rap on AA is well earned. For many years it was a gloss enhancer comprised of a product known as dimethal silicone oil (DMS). These oils react with UV and ozone to attack rubber and plastic. Yeah, AA of old made tires and dashboards shiny but it accelerated degradation. DMS is cheap (about $25/gallon), mixable with water if an emusifier is used, can be used in a wide range of temps, and leaves a high gloss. None of this means DMS is a good protectant for rubber or plastic but it is good for companies who want to produce a glossy dressing for very low cost.

In recent years AA has reformulated their core product (they still make DMS-based tire shines) and it is safer because they went to a PolyDiMethylSiloxane (PDMS) fluid which provides a similar look but is safer for use on rubber and plastic. The thing is, there are now many very good products on the market that protect rubber and plastic so there's no practical reason to buy only the Armor All brand. But if you want something to buy at your local Walmart the regular version of Armor All is OK.

WAX - Most of the waxes and polishes you see at stores perform about the same. Some clean the paint better, some last longer, and some are a little more durable. But for the most part they're very similar. For example NuFinish is a little more durable than others but it has strong solvents and abrasives in it; fine for an old car but not so hot for a new one. Meguiars Gold Class leaves a nice gloss and is easy to use but is not that durable. See the trade off's?

Liquid Glass is actually pretty good if you are waxing a new car. Its pretty durable, leaves a nice, slick shine, and is easy to use but it doesn't clean paint well so you need to start with an almost new car. Another good product like this is Duragloss. You can find it at NAPA auto parts. Similar to Liquid Glass in benefits. I like both of them.

Most of the sealant products found in stores will last 3-5 months. Those $10 waxes last 2-3 months. So LG and Duragloss, which are polymer sealants, are more durable and that sounds like what you really want.

Hope this answers your questions.

peachy1 · May 2003

WOW! now that's what i call an answer. thanks.

i bought the Zymol from a auto supply and it's only $20 so myb it's the turtle wax one. it smells good.

anyways, after i used it i didn't see that much difference in shine but it does feel smooth and slippery. i'm applying it to a new SILVER crv. i don't know if i really like this product. somehow it leaves a lot of white powder everywhere which is easily seen on the lower black plastic part of the crv.

i'm thinking of getting the Meguiar gold class when i was at the store.

so i guess myb i should go back to my old trusty Liquid Glass eh? do you know if they still sell this stuff?

so if i don't wanna buy the AA anymore, then what would you recommend? how about Eagle ONE's stuff... or Mothers. would that be better than AA?

bretfraz · May 2003

I think the Liquid Glass would be a good choice. Its still made; I saw it recently at Pep Boys and NAPA. You might want to call your local stores to check.

Silver is a hard color to get shiny. It refracts light more than reflects it. The people I know who have real shiny silver cars put a lot of work into them. It will never been glossy like black or red - silver can't respond like those colors.

To keep wax out of plastic cladding and trim I use 3M masking tape to protect the edges while waxing. It can be really tough to remove wax stains from trim so a few minutes taping things off makes life easier.

Since you want a long lasting wax, why not try a long lasting tire protectant? Mothers makes a product called "Duration" and Meguiar's makes one called "Endurance". You apply them with a small sponge (included) instead of spraying them on. These products last up to a few weeks and will hold up thru car washes. You can find them anywhere, they're popular.

Oh, and a Liquid Glass tip: If its possible apply the LG at night and let it sit on the CRV until morning. This time allows it to cure or harden and will result in more durability.

Good luck. :-)

stretchsje · May 2003

I just bought some Zymol at Target for either $14 or $16. It's Zymol cleaner-wax, and I also bought some detailer and wax enhancer. I'm just going to try it out, but it was the same stuff pictured on their web site.

You say this stuff is made by turtle wax- the equivelant of a Kia, as you say. Yet, this is the stuff that won Consumer Reports' comparison a few years ago. I don't put too much faith in their tests, but surely the Zymol can't be that bad, either.

So for weekend warriors like myself, you recommend Liquid Glass? I was considering that as well.

slickracer · May 2003

How does the Liquid Glass compare to Meguiers #20 poly sealant. I just purchased a 2003 blue Honda Civic and would like to try one of these products. Or should I stay with my trusty Meguiers #26 and put on a couple of coats?

bretfraz · May 2003

For a store bought cleaner wax product, Zymol isn't bad. But its important to look at it within the context of its competitors and its sister products. If you go to Zymol.com you'll see all the other branded products. The store bought version (labeled "Zurtle Wax" by some enthusiasts) simply doesn't fit naturally with all their super expensive products.

In an independent wax test Zymol cleaner wax finished 35th out of 46 competitors. There were many store bought products that finished ahead of it yet were less expensive. Does all this make it a bad product? No. But it does mean (to me) that its a poor value. Mothers Carnauba cleaner wax is better than Zurtle Wax in almost every respect and it costs about $5.00 a bottle.

I say use the products you bought, enjoy the results they provide, and when you're ready to replace them have a look at other brands. You'll find many products offering more bang for the buck than Zymol cleaner wax.

Just my opinion.......FWIW.

bretfraz · May 2003

Both LG and #20 would be great choices for your new car. The problem with #26 is that it has no cleaning or polishing ability (the cleaners in LG and #20 are very very mild but they're there).

I'm not suggesting you dump your trusted favorite wax. If #26 has been working for you, terrific, stick with it. But if you want something a little more durable the two you mentioned would be good candidates.

stretchsje · May 2003

In an independent wax test Zymol cleaner wax finished 35th out of 46 competitors. There were many store bought products that finished ahead of it yet were less expensive.

I have the Consumer Reports test. Where can I find the one you are referring to?

Since I bought from Target, it's all returnable.

chile96 · May 2003

Just got a new 325i and want to keep it showroom quality till the day it croaks(hopefully a decade from now!) Anyway, I've been reading through the posts and just keep getting more & more confused. Is there someone out there that can recommend a top of the line wax and how often I should be waxing it. I handwash it every 2 wks and use armor all wash concentrate - is that blasphemy? Looking for guidance.

thanks
hopeless in houston

bretfraz · May 2003

I highly recommend this publication:

http://www.gurureports.org

They independently tested 46 different waxes and sealants and ranked them all. Plus they offer tip and tricks to keep your car looking great. After all, a great looking car is not just about products, its more about process and procedures.

stretchsje · May 2003

I found that from Google, too, but I just don't anticipate getting $10 worth of knowledge from that article. Heck, that's more than some waxes themselves cost. Maybe in a library?

just4fun2 · May 2003

Peachy1, I also have a silver car and I can tell you that it shines so much that it looks "wet". I use Stoners "Speed Bead" you can get it on-line or at some auto stores. I use to use Liquid Crystal, but, they don't sell it around here any more.

I put Speed Bead on my car over eight months ago and it is still there. It doesn't leave any powder behind and it goes on and off so easy. Some people on this board told me eight months ago when I put it on that the results would only last a couple of days to weeks. I will never use anything else as long as I can buy Speed Bead.

WWW.moreshine.com will get you there. It is only about 10.00 and they might have a money back if not satisfied not sure.

P.S. this is not for the person that likes to spend all day making their car shine as it only takes me about 1 hour to complete. Good Luck

mralan · May 2003

Congrats on the new bimmer!

Fat chance on getting a definitive answer on the best product, but as far as protection I believe it's the consensus of those "in the know" that synthetics or polymer sealants, e.g. Klasse, Z, Blackfire, Platinum, etc ... are superior to carnuba waxes.

Many enthusiast use carnubas as "toppers" after applying a sealant for aesthetic purposes.

Let us know what product you decide on.

peachy1 · May 2003

just4fun2.... that wax is expensive man. at $70+ per bottle that's not something i'm looking to try, especially online. thanks for recommending anyways.

bretfraz... my friend uses mother's carnauba cleaner wax and her slightly darker silver subaru is SHINY.... shinier than mine. i know mine is slightly lighter in colour so not as reflective but it's quite a diff. i just dnt know if that will last for at least 6 mons. i dnt have that much time to wax anymore since i rather be out in the sun or inside the forest biking. u think the meguiars gold class is better in shine and durability than the mother's cleaner wax?

LG... you mean don't wipe the wax off until the next morning? let it sit UNTOUCHED (overnight) after applying the wax?

i'm returning my Zurtle wax. oh to give zurtle wax a credit... it comes off easily on the plastic parts. especially w/ wet cloth. your terry cloth also washer "clean" after. hmmmm does that mean the stuff in the car also washer off as clean? say in one rain.

hey can any1 scan the consumer's report and post it here....??? curious.

just4fun2 · May 2003

I don't know what the exchange rate is, but, Speed Bead is only about (TEN) $10.00 a can. I can buy a case of 12 cans shipped to my door for less than (EIGHTY) $80.00 dollars American. Of course that would last me TEN (10 years). They will sell you (1) one can and they do have a "Money Back" guarantee. I don't know where you are, but, Oil Changers in Toronto is listed as a retailer.

Keep it in mind if you are still searching for something you like and can't find it.

stretchsje · May 2003

I'm a big fan of Rain-X. Do other brands of this same "window wax" exist that perform noticably better, last longer, or cloud less?

lapvn · May 2003

I would like to tell everyone about my 2 cents regarding Rain X. I think the product works unfornately, not long enough, that I end up having to reapply it all the item. Right now, the Honda wipers we have work extremely well, nothing I have ever seen before.
I like to use Rain X on the side windows and also on the headlights, but never on the windshield.
They seem to last longer on those places. As for the side windows you will never see streaking, but when Rain X starts to fail, the streaking bothers the crap out of me.
Obviously I can't tell when the headlights are or if streaking.

Thats all for my 2 cents, anyone have change.

bretfraz · May 2003

Think of it as a more durable version of Rain X. Do a net search on it as more dealers are selling it recently.

Don't forget that Rain X is basically silicone and alcohol. Its not meant to last a long time.

chile96 · May 2003

Well I went to the local auto store ready to buy one of the aforementioned waxes when I was awestruck by all the different products and their different claims - so I left with my tail between my legs feeling dejected. I am wondering if anybody can just tell me what I need to buy. I would like to wash my car about every 10-14 days and then wax it every 6 mos, or do I need to do something else?

hopeless in houston

ps - I did buy the Meguiar's(sp?) Gold Class wheel cleaner for those impossible to clean Bimmer wheels so it wasn't a total waste of time.

Thanks for all the help so far

peachy1 · May 2003

yeah. isn't it just plain crazy how many cleaning/wax products are out there? insane!

Store Bought Waxes Part II (No Zaino Posts)

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