Store Bought Waxes Part II (No Zaino Posts)

bretfraz · May 2003

There aren't too many products that will last 6 months, regardless of claims. As I've been saying in recent posts the sealant polishes are more durable than waxes. Unfortunately the really good products aren't sold in national chain stores or mass merchants, you've got to go online and get them from specialty boutique e-tailers.

Pep Boys and AutoZone carry Liquid Glass which is a pretty good sealant. NAPA auto parts carrys Meguiar's #20 polymer sealant and Duragloss, but call them first and ask if they stock it. Any of these will outlast and outshine most of the $10 waxes you saw recently.

chile96 · May 2003

Ok - so I'll buy the Meguiar's polymer sealant and use that instead of wax. How often do I need to do it? Any suggestions on soap to wash the car with?

Thanks again
fo

ps - I went to the Meguiar's site and got my "free Rx" and they recommended pretty much the same thing for both my vehicles - the Meguiar's shampoo & the Meguiar's Gold Class Clear Coat Wax w/ an occasional polish in between. Stick w/ the #20 or go w/ this clear coat wax.

Sorry to be such an uninformed pain!

nutpolish · May 2003

I've got an Audi, about 3 weeks old. Is it premature to start polishing at this point?

I bought Meguiars #7 and #26. Already used the #26 after 2nd wash. I plan on washing once a week, waxing about once a month. When should I throw the polish into the mix. Also a paint cleaner will need to come into play soon. Is Scratch X decent enough. I'm sure some minor swirls will come into play here and there.

BTW, black car. Yikes!!! Looks unbelievable clean.

Not afraid of spending time on the car, but am afraid of professional end product, so keep it simple please.

TIA

bretfraz · May 2003

If you can find #20 I think you'll like it better than Gold Class. Nothing wrong with GC except that it doesn't last too long - maybe 60 days or so. It would be best if you could protect your car every 3-4 months. That way you'd always have protection.

As for washing I like Meguiar's Gold Class shampoo, Eagle One Wet shampoo, and Mothers shampoo. All are excellent and readily available.

bretfraz · May 2003

You should be ready to work on the car unless Audi states specifically not to wax or polish for the first couple months. What does the owners manual say?

Those are good products you bought but realize neither have any cleaning ability. They won't remove swirls, stains, or oxidation. Its a good idea to have at least one light polish on hand for the times you need something with a little "bite".

If you want to stick with Meguiars then pick up some #9 swirl mark remover. Skip the Scratch X unless you have light scratches that need removal. Scratch X is not designed for use all over the car, just in spots that need it.

You should polish the paint once a year minimum but really ya gotta let paint condition and your demands be the guide. I bust out the polisher and the products at least twice a year, maybe three times if needed. But I really like my car as swirl free as possible. Use your best judgement.

rs_petty · May 2003

Houston probably has a higher level of pollutants in the air because of the oil industry. Washing more frequently will keep your finish in better shape. I'd try to wash every 3-5 days depending on weather. Use a chenille or cotton mit or boar's hair brush, wash top down, and use a rinse bucket for your mit (always rinse the mit before putting it back in the soap). This will help to avoid the swirls.

rs_petty · May 2003

Do you also use the Bead Max? I'm reading the site as Speed Bead is the glaze/wax and Bead Max would be equivalent to a quick detailer. Just wondering - I've been looking for something like this for my wife's car because it is never still long enough to check the oil/tire pressures much less wash & wax.

I've heard good things about Stoner.

nutpolish · May 2003

Okay, so I should skip the Scratch X and use Meguiars #9 or maybe like a 3M IHG or equivalent as a paint cleaner?

Now, you only use that when there's some grit after the wash or need to remove swirls, right?

Also, I've got that Auto Armour teflon coating. Dealer threw it in at cost as the deal maker. Works pretty good as far as repelling bird droppings, etc. They come right off. Not sure if I should take any special consideraions. Believe it or not, not much info provided by company. They do include a paint cleaner and car wash concentrate in maintenance kit, but no word of polish or wax. Dealer told me waxing wouldn't hurt, but is not necessary.

just4fun2 · May 2003

I have not tried Max Bead yet, but I will when I run out of Speed Bead. Speed Bead has a mild cleaner in it to remove tar and stuff, Max Bead has no cleaners. I used a clay bar on my vehicles before I used Speed Bead, I have never used a clay bar before, but, I wanted to start out with a clean surface to compare the product. My car is 4 years old and I will put it up against a brand new car, I can touch the hood and fenders (which I can't seem to stop doing) and will not leave any finger prints on the car. I thought it was just me, but, everybody who uses this on their cars comment about how the color of their cars looks better, like "wet" or candy apple effect depending on the color.

Also, no messy dry powder around the moldings , name plate or the seams of the car. You can call them, they are very helpful and no pressure to purchase anything. Ask them if they can waive the S&H since you are only buying one can, they did that for me.

treeman8 · May 2003

Hi gentlemen and ladies,

If I choose to only take care of my new car finish a little better than doing nothing at all (i.e., wash as needed, "wax" twice a year) please sum up the "better" all in one products. I simply don't want to mail order and/or do a multiple process application. I was very happy with the appearance of my ten year old truck with minimum maintenance, outdoors 100%. From studying the past several hundred posts, it appears that Nu Finish is the cheapest, first choice, but there are numerous better products out there. Mequires, Klaase (available over the counter?)- what else? could you possible rank the better three products that would fill my needs.

Thanks so much!

rs_petty · May 2003

Thanks. I'll probably try one of their sample kits. I've been wanting to try their window cleaner anyway.

bretfraz · May 2003

3M IHG is basically the same as the #7 you bought; a hand glaze, no cleaning or polishing ability, designed to fill in light swirls instead of removing them. Its a redundant product for you.

The Auto Armor treatment changes things a bit. That stuff is a polymer sealant that bonds to paint. Its much more durable than any wax incl that #26 you have. I wouldn't use a scratch remover on it and really would not suggest a swirl mark remover. Both are slightly abrasive and will remove the sealant. Not what you want after the $$ you've spent. The glaze will help fill in some of the microswirls you'll get from general use of the car and the #26 will act as a topper. That's about all I'd suggest you do unless you want to remove that sealant.

Basically I think your original plan of attack is fine now that I know this added info.

bretfraz · May 2003

My posts to chile96 about a durable store bought product would apply to your needs as well. I do not care for NuFinish on new vehicles due to its strong solvents and abrasives.

I wish Klasse All In One was in stores but its not unless you can find it locally at an auto accessories store (those places that sell sheepskin seat covers and the like).

Liquid Glass and Meguiars #20 polymer sealant are pretty good, durable products. I like Mothers Reflections too; real easy to use but not quite as durable as the other two. All three should be available at parts stores nationwide.

alwaysfords · May 2003

Ever used Collinite 427? Your thoughts?

nutpolish · May 2003

thanks.

So basically use #7 from time to time (about 2-4 times a year) to give an extra shine, then top with #26.

Auto Armour does provide a paint cleaner with their maintenance kit, so I guess I'll use that from time to time also.

Let me know if I missed the mark here.

thanks again.

bretfraz · May 2003

Yep, you're on the right track. Remember the #7 has no protective ability so every time you use it you've got to cover it with the #26.

If you're curious try an experiment on one panel using that polish followed by the #26. Maybe do a comparo side by side with the #7 & #26. I'm kinda curious what that stuff is and if you think it makes a difference.

bretfraz · May 2003

Don't know what that is. I went to Collinite's website and they don't show a #427.

I don't have any experience with Collinite. Its kind of an old school, sleeper product line. They're unique in that they make waxes for industrial use. Kind of the antithesis of high profile products like Meguiars and elitist brands like Zymol. Don't know if that makes them any better but Collinite is a little different.

just4fun2 · May 2003

Didn't mention Invisible Glass, that 's the first product that I used from Stoner. I bought it a B.J.'s Wholesale Club and liked the results. I can buy the Invisible Glass from B.J.'s for $8.99 for 3 cans. Good Luck.

nutpolish · May 2003

thanks.

So basically use #7 from time to time (about 2-4 times a year) to give an extra shine, then top with #26.

Auto Armour does provide a paint cleaner with their maintenance kit, so I guess I'll use that from time to time also.

Let me know if I missed the mark here.

thanks again.

nutpolish · May 2003

the Auto Armour apparently has teflon in it. I know that most of these after market, dealer add ons are crap, but in this case, I must admit that the coating actually works.

It cost me about $200 vs. the usual $450 or $500 (and that includes interior... never stain, never fade guarantee). So it wasn't like it was a big stretch, I figured "can't hurt". I've had a couple rain storms in past few weeks, and the water beaded very nicely off the paint. I've also had a couple of bird droppings that basically wiped right off without leaving a mark.

I'm little gun shy about the polish because in theory, doesn't it need to hit the paint in order to get that shine. Considering there's teflon on the coat, not sure if it's going to make a difference.

The #26 worked like a dream though. I had some very minor swirls from a towel tag that slipped my eye. #26 buffed it right out. The application was also dreamy. Don't know if it's that teflon making for an easy wax on wax off.

In any case, I'll try the #7 on a small panel like you suggested. Really curious to see if it'll penetrate enough to do any good.

stretchsje · May 2003

Per advice of Bretfraz, I returned the "Zurtle Wax" and bought Liquid Glass from AutoZone. However, they didn't have the Liquid Glass precleaner. Should I find a substitute for this? Is it important? It's going on a new car- there isn't any oxidation to speak of yet. AutoZone also does not sell clay bars.

I almost bought Meguiars's 3-step system they were selling instead of liquid glass, but when two people, totally unprevoked, told me how great their liquid glass experiences were, I ended up buying two containers. The Meguiars was, I believe, the gold class 3-step, with a cleaner, a shiny coating, and a durability coating. I haven't heard anything bad about Liquid Glass yet, though. Tomorrow I'll be able to share my thoughts.

I also bought Rain-X tire protectant to keep brake dust off. It's not a cleaner nor a wax (as others sell), but rather a coating designed simply to keep brake dust from sticking. Anybody use that? My new Mazda6 has the worst brake dust build-up of any car I've ever seen- 3 days of driving creates a pretty dirty wheel. I may try liquid-glass on the wheels, too.

Anyway, back to my main question, do I need the pre-cleaner?

Thanks to all here who are helping by answering the same questions over and over for people like me

chile96 · May 2003

I just ordered online Meguiar's soap and their #20 sealant. I assume the sealant instructions for application and frequency will be on the bottle. If not, would you mind briefly informing me.

Thanks a ton
fo

bretfraz · May 2003

You're right on the mark with the #7 application followed by #26. Glazes don't penetrate the paint surface (nothing does, actually). What they do is fill in light marring and leave a glossy finish that's ready for a pure wax like #26.

Teflon in car polish is a stretch of the truth. I swiped this paragraph from a chemicals website:
Teflon is a trade name of Du Pont Chemicals for a polymer, mentioned earlier as polytetrafluoroethylene, aka PTFE. Teflon is an example of a polymer that is not well suited for use in a car wax because of several other properties unrelated to it's durable slippery nature. Teflon is powder that melts at 600°F or disolves in fluorinated solvents such as freon. Those are the only known ways to make teflon into a liquid form. This is the main reason that teflon is poorly suited for car wax. If it can't be made into a liquid, it can't be made into a coating. If it won't coat the surface, it won't stay there. Teflon is a powder that gets wiped away with the other powders in a wax or polish.

So, there is no practical way to apply Teflon to auto paint using a polish. What's really on the car is some kind of polymer sealant. Many sealants create a lot of surface tension which is why you see the water beading. Using a glaze and wax on top of the sealant should not affect it too much but I can't be definitive about this.

I also can't reliably comment about that polish as I don't know what's in it. Common sense says it might be some kind of cleaner which would likely remove the sealant. Hence the reason for my experiment suggestion.

Let us know how everything works for you. I'll be curious to hear about it.

- - Bret - -

bretfraz · May 2003

No, I don't think you need the precleaner on a new car. That's why I recommended LG to you and Chile96 - you both have brand new vehicles that should not need any paint cleaning. That pre-cleaner chemically removes stuff like road tar, paint overspray, very light oxidation, etc. I've used it before and while it works fine, its not necessary on your new cars.

I know a few people who use that Rain X wheel protectant and they seem to like it. Let us know what you think. LG on your wheels would help them greatly to shed brake dust and keep them protected.

bretfraz · May 2003

Good question, I have no idea what Meguiar's prints on the bottle. It should have the basics at least. If you want detailed info, call Meguiar's Customer Care and ask - (800) 347-5700.

acerone · May 2003

The UV rating for Finish First Polish is over 97% and it's one of the highest ratings when it comes to detailing products. LG use to be good until they reformulated it years back.

www.finishfirstpolish.com
www.liquidglass.com

bretfraz · May 2003

Are you sure they're not the same product? I'm not.

treeman8 · May 2003

I guess I missed your recent advice to chile96 and stretchsje - it's just what I needed. After lurking on the oil/filter forums for awhile, I find this one just as amusing(not meant to be insulting). I feel comfortable in the "middle of the road crowd". I would like to get beyond the marketing hype products (I bought into the Nu Finish/Consumer report thing), but I don't want car paint care to be an OCD priority in my life. I like that you (and a few others) can offer advice at my level too. Thanks for the help.

In general, don't you believe that today's car finishes are much more durable than 20 years ago, even with minimum care?

gearhead10 · May 2003

Used Liquid Glass on my 2 week old red Audi this past weekend due to some positive recommendations on this site. It was very easy to use and shines as well as or better than anything else I've tried before. I've used Meguiar's #7 glaze followed by #26 wax on a black car before also with good results so this is not really an apples to apples comparison. So if the LG lasts longer than the Meguiar's (2 months max) and only requires one step I'll be very happy.

Instructions say additional applications will increase protection so I'm actually looking forward to applying another coat this weekend (imagine that).

Since my car is red, would anyone know if LG affords any kind of protection against fading? The car is garaged only about 1/3 of the time at home and sits outside all day at work. Thanks.

gearhead10 · May 2003

Just some experiences with other products I've used:

Meguiar's #7 glaze and #25 wax - very nice shine but the #7 isn't very easy to apply and buff off by hand. #26 very easy to use and buff off and seems to dry clear. Combo lasts 2 months max and car is garaged. Used on a black Lexus with too much paint surface area when process takes 2 or 3 steps :P Hence my desire to find something that will work as well in just one step.

Meguiar's $5 cleaner wax - very easy to apply and buff off but too cheap to take seriouly - JMO. Doesn't last long. Use on my 12 year old white Integra.

Zymol Zurtle wax - tried this as is a one-step wax alternative. Easy to apply and buff off but as another poster mentioned, the white powder gets everywhere--every crack and trim piece. Spent more time cleaning the powder off than waxing and will never use on a black car again. Shine is only slightly better than Meguiar's $5 cleaner wax. Also doesn't last long.

Nu Finish - cheap, lasts long, doesn't shine very well, after reading about solvents and abrasives won't use on any of my cars.

alwaysfords · May 2003

Sorry, 427 isn't the right Collinite #. I must had big motors on the brain. I think it is 467, but it is sold as Collinite Super Double Coat. The hype is that it is detergent resistant. I have used it on marine applications for slat water an it does hold up really well. Haven't tried it on a car yet, which is why I was asking. It is actually mentioned in the guru comparison of the 46 waxes, I'm just too cheap to buy the report to see where it ranked.

stretchsje · May 2003

Since my car is red, would anyone know if LG affords any kind of protection against fading? The car is garaged only about 1/3 of the time at home and sits outside all day at work. Thanks.

Yes, my car is also red, but never garaged. It does get some shade under trees and storms of bird poop, though.

(sigh)... the city

bretfraz · May 2003

Did very well, 12th place. Held up well until bad weather killed it. Didn't do as well as P21S and the Pinnacle "supertwins" (Souveran and Paste Glaz) but still a good showing for them.

bretfraz · May 2003

Glad you find the info here to be helpful. While I'm more OCD than most about keeping my car looking perfect I fully realize many people just want some basic info about the stuff they see in stores.

No question paint processes have improved significantly over the past 20 years... even the past 10 years have seen great advances. Not just in paint materials but in application. The current trend towards environmentally-friendly water based paints has been a major change and a challenge for paint mfrs. This is a discussion topic on its own, its so involved.

Environmental laws are even creating big changes in the car appearance industry, forcing out solvent based, high VOC waxes as too damaging to produce.

treeman8 · May 2003

O.K., the car care bug might have nibbled on me a bit - since Clay magic is easily available from Autozone, I think I will give it a try.

Are there any differences between the #20 and Liquid Glass to influence a decision? Cleaning ability, ease of use,longevity, UV protection, whatever. LG says it's a combo polish/finish. Mequires always rants how their products "nourish" the paint.

With these two products, will a sealer/glaze work pre-waxing?

Next year maybe I will join the Z product, Klasse, Black Fire war. How fun.

Off Topic, but neat - at my workplace, for the past ten years I had the VERY LAST model D pick up truck off Chrysler's assembly line. I participated in the ceremonies in Warren, MI. It will be up for sale next week - 67,000 miles, good condition.

Thanks all

bretfraz · May 2003

I can't really tell you anything definitive as I've not compared these products but from what I've heard from users, they seem quite similar. Both have very mild cleaning agents in them.

These agents will remove any glaze used prior so I don't suggest its use with these sealant products.

Any pics of your truck on the net?

rivertown · May 2003

I've just done the Clay Magic, Liquid Glass thing. WOW!

The clay seems to get the scum off the windshield, too!

Thanks.

imidazol97 · May 2003

for a newbie to this topic.
Have a new 2003 LeSabre. I read all these posts with various opinions about #xx and #xx and glass and clay.
Suggestions for good way to get gloss on bright red new finish?
Don't want a lot of work. Will be happy to repeat every 2 months or so...
Liquid glass? What does the clay do?

bretfraz · May 2003

If you've read these recent posts you should have a pretty good idea of what products to use and where to get them. If you're willing to work on the car every few months then most waxes available at stores will do just fine. The latest discussion has been about products (i.e. Liquid Glass, Meguiar's #20) that are more durable than most in order to avoid bi-monthly wax jobs.

A new car is a perfect canvas to work from. All it takes is regular maintenance and it should look great all the time.

Regarding detail clay, here's an article describing its advantages: http://www.properautocare.com/usclaybartor.html

Ultimately you want to build a little car care kit that includes various waxes, cleaners, tools, and whatnot. Keep in mind you'll need to clean and protect wheels and tires, clean the glass, the interior, all the trim, etc. Its really not that hard once you have the products and a system in place.

Any particular questions, feel free to ask.

stretchsje · May 2003

Liquid Glass can be used on a winshield, a la Rain-X, except I'd bet LG lasts longer.

I don't think it was answered before- I have a red car. Will liquid glass help prevent paint fade? It mentions nothing about UV protection, but I'm not even sure that UV rays are what cause the fade in red paint.

bretfraz · May 2003

I think the only folks that know the answer to this question are LG themselves. Send them an email and ask: info@liquidglass.com

lapvn · May 2003

I was wondering what you guys suggest for the interior of a new van.

I was thinking of using Scotchguard on the carpet.

Never had a car with leather interior so I am not sure how to protect the seats. Is there a way to protect them from cracking? Is there something to protect them from soda / milk spills?

How about the dashboard? what to use to protect it from Mr. Sun? What about to keep it nice and shiny?

acerone · May 2003

Not the same product. Corvette Fever pick FF best paint care product in their buyers guide and didn't have much to say about LG.

dad16 · May 2003

You seem to be in the know and loop. Have you seen any info on Guru Reports status of their report on glass cleaning products. I use rain X in exterior with great results and currently sprayway glass cleaner to clean since it has no ammonia and seems to leave no film. The only problem is it has to be ordered and I'd like to find an over the counter product that works well.

Any insight would be appreciated. Thanks

dad16 · May 2003

Interior dash 303 aerospace protectant. It has uv protection of something like SPF 40. It works great on rubber exterior and if you ever get that wax residue on rubber that get that baked on white look 303 will remove it. You can also use it on your leather seats to prevent uv fade and then every couple of months use a conditioner like Pinnacle. The only down side is it makes the seats slick, not greasy just slick feeling. I've used this combo on my Lexus for years and the leather seats still look new. I don't like the slick feeling on the steering wheel so maybe there is a better combo. Mine still looks new with no fade, but it is slick. 303 makes the Fabric guard for carpet or leather that also offers uv protection. That why its better than Scotchguard.

lapvn · May 2003

You were on the right track until you used the word slick. That was the one thing we were worried about when buying leather. Especialy with a car seat.

What would you or anyone else suggest that would give me the protection from cracking and spills while not have a slick feeling to it. Or is this like asking where the fountain of yute is?

dad16 · May 2003

I use car seats in all my vehicles and the slick to no problem. They sell mats to put under car seats to protect the seats in my case leather. They are less than $10 at kid stores in my area. Your suppose to put your knee into the car seat to install it properly, snug. I can shake the whole auto by trying to get the seat out. It will not slip. If you are not in any trouble, all police stations will have someone qualified to inspect your installation of car seat, belts and tethers. Just my thoughts. I personally would not install a hard plastic seat in the leather without some sort of seat protection.

Once the seats have been put on the ground a couple of times they get scratched and that scratched hard plastic will ruin a seat.

rerenov8r · May 2003

Slick (as in smooth, non-stick, un-creased) is how I WANT me seats to stay!

For the lil' ones car seats just get that good "rubber mesh" style shelf liner stuff. It is cheap, works great and comes in many colors. This is one popular brand --
http://www.duckproducts.com/ProductCatalog/detail.asp?catid=5&amp- ;subid=23&plid=103

As for the steering wheel, I think that you have to either decide it will be protected OR wear out. Even baseball gloves EVENTUALLY need to be replaced and NO manufacturer uses leather THAT thick on the wheel (even if some have done a good job reproducing the color/texture of a Rawlings)...

nutpolish · May 2003

any recommendations on stuff to put on tires. Seems like Armour All gets a bad wrap I guess because of the silicone.

Any recommendations for sprays/gels/wipes for tires. Obviously like the wet look, but I guess you can't get that without the silicone or some sort of lubricant that's going to be bad for your tires in the long run.

treeman8 · May 2003

Curious George here - just wondering:

Back to the 70's - I used a liquid product in a blue can with lots of snake oil advertizing on it. What was it? Westley's Mirror Glaze or something? It was pretty good.

About 10 or more years ago, the store brands all seemed to have some kind of miracle poly product -why did they disappear off the shelves.

MF TOWELS - is the "Absorber" an example of one? Are there any acceptable ones available over the counter (OTC)? Turtle wax has an "absorber" style -any good?

MEGUIRES - wasn't too impressed by their "Rx" phone tech.. He was shocked that I found # 20 locally.
      - #20 says it's a polymer with silicone, and
        high tech wax. Poly AND wax, what gives?
      - #26 says it's carnuba with silicone and
         polymers. Kind of the same description as
         #20.
      - #20 = superior results, 26 is the
         professional's choice, and MPPP provides
         deepest shine and longest protection.
         O.K.........

      - Are store brands repackaged professional
         brands...MPPP maybe is Gold Class??

Some more "just wonderin"

Liquid Glass/Finish First - they say you can do multi applications. Wouldn't their cleaners remove the prior coat?

Klaase - says it's an acrylic. Is acrylic same as polymer, or is Klaase a different bird.

Zaino - visited their forum - what kind of hazing is involved in joining their side (not hazy wax, rather, do I have to shave my head or something?)

Have any of you guys ever ruined your paint by over zealous use of finishes?

Thanks - have a nice weekend!

Store Bought Waxes Part II (No Zaino Posts)

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