Store Bought Waxes Part II (No Zaino Posts)

windwalkerman · May 2003

I have a 1995 vehicle I am preparing to sell. The finish is fairly good, but has some minor scratches from frisbee and dirt rub on the front, and grocery bag slide on the side. I have always used Nu-Finish on it per Consumer Reports recommendation. From the info I have gathered from this discussion, I am considering claying, and possibly using a glaze like #7 followed by #26. I am not interested in the longevity of the products, I just want the vehicle to look as "showroom" as possible with a minimum of effort. Hopefully it will sell within a couple months. I would appreciate any comments or recommendations

gearhead10 · May 2003

I have an Absorber and it works very well but it is more of a synthetic chamois--very absorbent. MF towels are like terry towels but made with micro fibers--very soft but with a "different" feel to them. I got a 5 pack from Walmart for $5. Great for buffing wax or polish off, touch up drying/spot cleaning your car. They are much more absorbent than regular terry cloth and trap more dirt within its weaves so it makes a good cleaning/dusting cloth around the house too.

Put on a second coat of LG today--looks great and shines better than just one. I've heard good things about Klasse. Anyone tried/know more about it or even where you can get it?

bretfraz · May 2003

Sorry it took me so long to get back to ya. Was in Charlotte for The Winston weekend.

Anyhoo, about the Glass Cleaner Test, its almost ready to go and, sorry, I can't comment about any results or product performance.

The products you mentioned have great track records for outstanding performance. A close competitor to Sprayway is Stoners Invisible Glass, avail at most auto parts stores. I switch between the two and love em both when used with a microfiber towel.

bretfraz · May 2003

The stuff's been around a long time and has a well earned rep of being an excellent, easy to use sealant. One great thing about the product is that it has cleaning ability (more than the products we've been talking about lately) so its a good choice for those wanting a product that will clean and protect in one application yet be very durable. The main reason I don't talk about it in here is because its not available in retail stores except for maybe the occassional car boutique type store. Ya gotta get it mail order if you want a reliable source. A quick internet search will turn up several e-tailers.

bretfraz · May 2003

If you want a nice shine with a minimum of work, I'd suggest sticking with whatever you've got now plus adding a claying session and maybe some scratch removal. The 7 and 26 will add a little more shine but come at the expense of good bit of work. I think the most benefit to you will come from other products.

You should be able to find clay at most any parts store. While you're there look for a tube of Meguiars Scratch X and use that to take out some of those scratches and scuffs you mentioned. Wash the car first, clay, remove scratches, then wax with whatever you've got. It should look and feel pretty darned nice.

Remember to get the wheels and tires as clean as possible. And try to get the interior looking and smelling nice; every buyer will notice those things if dirty and smelly. Good luck with selling your car!!

mikek37 · May 2003

I am the owner of a 03 Accord, it is 5 months old. Is it too early to Clay Bar it? Also, when I wax my car, I use meguiars liquid wax, then I throw another coat of Mothers Caranuba wax on top of it. Just wondering if I am wasting my time by throwing on two coats?

Thanks guys!

bretfraz · May 2003

Its never too early to clay unless the car just came out of the paint booth. You may not notice a huge difference since your car is so new but its still a good idea to remove any surface crud that's on there.

It depends on the Meguiars product you're using but I'd say, no, you're not wasting time or product. I'm assuming the Meguiar's product is a cleaner wax of some sort. The Mothers wax will add a layer of protection the Meguiars cannot. If its workin for ya, I say rock on.

imidazol97 · May 2003

What's the difference between a glaze and a polish? I am confused by so many variations here.
Just too many different products...

Is Mothers' Glaze/Sealer a good product for a new car? It gave a beautiful finish. Should I go over it with Mothers Carnauba liquid wax?

warrenul · May 2003

I haven't waxed my black car for three years. Although it looks clean when I recently washed it, the paint surface is noticeably rough when touching the paint.

I bought Zymol Wax/Cleaner but I think I need to prep the surface before I wax it. What is this clay bar and how do I use it? I'am thinking that this is a bar of clay. Will it restore a smooth surface prior to waxing? Is it applied by hand and easily removed? Can I mold a Pokey and Gumby figure with the leftovers? Thanks.

lapvn · May 2003

I can definitely answer your question. This past weekend I had some spare time so I waisted it by actually washing the car with Dawn first, then I clayed the surface. To really give this product a good test, I only did 1/2 of the hood and also only the driver side of the car. My clay bar actually turned gray and was very impressed with the outcome. You not only can feel the difference or see the difference, but you can also hear the difference. The area that I did not clay now feels like sandpaper. Next weekend I will be claying the entire car. At first, I thought this rough feel and spotty look was normal old aged of the car look, now I see that I can help the car look younger and better than some of these 10 year old cars out there.

FYI on the car, it is a 93 Integra, first 4 years, it was constantly washed and waxed. From 1997 to 2002 it was beaten down under the sun 24x7 and washed when time permitted and wax when money was available. I was living in an apt. then so it was not that easy to get a hose from the 6th floor of my building. Though I clayed and polished the car, it did not give me that new car shine, but the feel and look was good enough that you would be surprised that it is a 10 year old car. I think for me, this car will be fine just with claying and then some normal wax products like Turtle Wax. No need to waiste the good stuff on this car, keep that for the new wheels.

lapvn · May 2003

Where can I get some Meguiars clay?
I am in NJ and according to thier site it is only mail order through them.

Right now I am using "Z" products and would prefer to save those for the new car.

Besides "Z" and Meguiars, are there other companies that make their version of clay which are just as good?

dad16 · May 2003

I have Meg. Clay and it works great, my neighbor bought Mother's Clay and it appears to work the same as the Meg.

I've been reading all this detail stuff, everything I can get my hands on and the Pinnacle Clay sounds rather interesting. It apparently will not dry out. The Meg and Mothers both must be kept sealed up so it will not dry out. Pinnacle is a Florida Co. so you should find it back east or at least Mothers should be in stores there.

bretfraz · May 2003

The simplest explanation is like this:

POLISH - Polishes are products that are designed to remove oxidation, stains, swirl marks, and other surface defects. Polishes remove embedded dirt and contaminents and bring the paint to a high gloss. Its probably the most important step in paint care and probably the most misunderstood and therefore skipped over. There are literally hundreds of polishes on the market and its easy to get confused. Think of polishes as products designed to remove sanding scratches. The rougher the finish, the more aggressive polish you'll need. Conversely, fine scratches need a fine polish.

GLAZE - Think of glaze like makeup for your paint job. Its sole job is to fill in light swirls and defects (NOT remove them) and to leave a glossy finish. Its an appearance product. Glazes are comprised of oils and fillers. They have NO protective qualities and MUST be followed by a wax. Glazes are difficult to work with, almost by design as the more polishing you do, the better the shine.

Mothers Glaze/Sealer is a terrific product but must be followed by wax if you want protection. The Mothers carnauba wax is fine. About the only car that would not need wax after clay is a show car that's being judged. Some glazes last only a few hours but in concours competition, that's all you need.

bretfraz · May 2003

Please see my post #2797.

bretfraz · May 2003

Why Meguiars clay? It sucks! Go to your local auto parts store and buy Mothers or Clay Magic. Both are excellent clay products and will work great.

BTW, there is nothing special about Pinnacle clay. There are only two primary mfr's of clay in the US and the Pinnacle product is essentially the same as several others on the market.

bretfraz · May 2003

Let's see if I can tackle a few of these for ya. Not sure I'm 100% on all this stuff but....

BLUE STUFF FROM THE 70'S, MAN - Man, that stuff was soooooo boss!! I think what you're talking about is Blue Max, made by Ashland Corp (Valvoline, Zerex, and now Eagle One).

THE 80's - I remember those products. Car dealers really jumped on sealant products with outrageous claims and warranties. Stuff like Polyglycoat was the product that was pimped the most. Frankly, the offspring of these products are still around. Dealers still sell crap like Perma Shield and Touch Of Class. And people like you and I can buy almost identical products from Meguiars, Liquid Glass, Finish First, etc. Yep, the stuff we've been talking about in recent posts is basically the same stuff that was hyped into oblivion during the days of Miami Vice, double breasted shirts, and Duran Duran. The basic products are fine as long as the hype is ignored.

LG/FF - Yeah, I know both say you can layer them and both will say their products have no abrasives and cleaning ability. But I've seen $3000 chemical and spectrographic analyses of both products and I know that's not true. Additional coats will only serve to even out the protection and shine. Not a bad idea since they're easy to use but no sense in getting nutty by applying dozens of coats.

KLASSE - I think the challenge here is in terminology, not product performance. Polymer is such a broadly defined word that it can mean lots of things. In car care products its usually used to describe a non-wax product that can chemically cross-link and produce a tough, durable protective coating on your car. An acrylic IS a polymer and for simplicity sake, its a version of the polymer sealant type of products we've been talking about.

ZAINO - This product has its own discussion topic at Edmunds and is not allowed to be discussed in this topic. In the 2800+ previous posts you can find the reason why the two topics are separate.

RUINED FINISHES - I've never ruined a finish with simply a product but I've done plenty of damage using the wrong tool with the wrong product. The tool being a high speed rotary polisher with a wool bonnet attached.

treeman8 · May 2003

Bret, excellent answers except for number one. The stuff I used came in a can the size of LG. Every square inch was covered with fine print explaining the virtues of this product: not a wax, mirror shine, repels the sun and dirt..... car detail shops back then listed it in their ads along with simonize, etc... maybe a blue coral product? Westleys sticks in my mind.

Talk about OCD - it's been 20 years since I took car finish semi-seriously (kids = time for nu-finish twice a year, tops). I used the recent excellent knowledge I gained here and spent Sunday past detailing MY new WORK truck (belongs to employer!). Every new vehicle needs to be babied at least once.

First time clay job (C Magic) - awesome, easy, it really does work. A few years ago I thought it was some kind of abrasive process. Everyone should try this.

I used easily available Liquid Glass. Looks great, will wait to see how it performs. I'm interested in Dura Gloss and # 20, will try to avoid mail order if possible - I'm taking enough flak already from co-workers.

MF Towels - another really great product. I used the Walmart ones (scream if you must), no swirl marks in sun or flourescent shop.

Next week it's my 4 year old van (maybe some polish), then my daughter's car. Oh boy!

Thanks again.

MY NEXT QUESTION: Again, want to stay with Off The Shelf Product:

"older" 4 yr. old vehicle. After Dawn wash, then clay, what's a good "pre-wax" cleaner or polish? What's least abrasive? Mequires and Mothers pre wax cleaners are abrasive aren't they? Thanks.

imidazol97 · May 2003

Bretfraz for Glaze Vs polish explanation.

Now I understand. I thought it would be carnauba wax then glaze for the appearance. So the Mother's Cleaner/polish in the 3 step group I bought a few years ago will fix up the 98's clearcoat, then use the glaze, then use the wax. On the new car use glaze and then wax...

Some of this discussion is almost frightening because people talk about things I have no idea they exist... I thought clay was the bad ground we had on the farm when I grew up; now it's car prep stuff!!! I'm learning from all the talk. Thanks.

windwalkerman · May 2003

I did my work over the weekend. I used the Clay Magic and found it was very easy. I just did the hood and upper portions of the body panels in about 20 minutes on a Windstar minivan. I then used Meguiars deep crystal polish with a 6 inch orbital buffer. I had already purchased the Meguiars #7 and #20 and came to the conclusion I did not want to do the work to apply two more coats, so I got some Liquid Glass and applied that once. The thing I liked most about LG is that you don't end up with the white powdery stuff all over. Maybe it was the orbital buffer which allows you to apply a very thin coat. Anyway the vehicle looks SHOWROOM! A few scratches did not come out. I think I'll get some scratchx for application by hand to small areas and hopefully that will eliminate them. I used Meguiars tire gel applied by sponge and that looks good. We'll see if it holds up to rain as advertised. Does anyone know of a good fragrance for the car that does not smell like cheap bathroom deodorant?

By the way, was the 70's blue polish Rain Dance by chance? I remember using it. It was very popular. The can was blue with rain beads on it.

bretfraz · May 2003

I'm glad the info I'm providing is helping all of you. Always happy to hear of another clean and polished vehicle on the road. One at a time..... that's my mission.

TREEMAN - Its hard to say exactly which polish would work best as I can't see the van. But a good guess on my part would be to try Mothers PreWax Cleaner. I saw it the other day at Pep Boys.

The hot tip with polishes is to use a very small amount and work it completely (rub, rub, rub, rub...) until its almost gone. Do this a section at a time. Don't add more polish as it will only prolong the process. And keep the area dry; water makes polishes act too aggressively. Make sure to use a new applicator with the polish and clean it or use a new one if it gets dirty or caked up with residue.

Also keep in mind that products like Meguiar's #20, Liquid Glass, Duragloss, Finish First are all pretty much the same type of product so the performance differences will be minor to non-existent.

IMIDAZOL - Your comments about the Mothers for both cars are correct. The older car gets some polish while the new one gets only the glaze for now. Finish off both with the wax.

WINDWALKERMAN - When I detailed for a living most of my customers liked cherry, pina colada, and vanilla scents. I don't use any of them. I don't notice it anymore but when people get in my car they always say they love the smell of the leather. My car's three years old now but I keep the seats in good condition so I guess that new car smell is the one everyone notices and likes.

imidazol97 · May 2003

>I don't notice it anymore but when people get in my car they always say
>they love the smell of the leather. My car's three years old now but
>I keep the seats in good condition so I guess that new car smell is
>the one everyone notices and likes.

What product will keep the leather smelling new in my car? It doesn't need cleaning at
3000 and 5 months, but I would like to enhance the scent that leather has.

lapvn · May 2003

Bret,

Same question as above, since you are suggesting I go to local auto parts store and buy some Mother's or Clay Magic, I might as well buy everything there.

So what are your suggestion for the following:

Leather - Never had leather seats so I don't know how to or what steps to take to care for them. All I know is that I don't want them to crack.

Vinyl - As for the dashboard, I use to use AA. Any other suggestions welcomed, especially store bought.

Tires - Not happy with AA, you said that tire wet was bad (very very very oily), right now testing out the "Z" version. Any other suggestions welcomed, especially for store bought.

I just can't get myself to spend top dollar for interior stuff, but have no problem shelling out the extra $$ to make sure the exterior is nice and shiny and slick. That's why I am so confuse on the interior products.

Thanks in advance.

nutpolish · May 2003

Just curious. I've been doing a quick wipe to break up the wax (#26 btw, but am going to switch to Blitz at some point), then a second wipe to pick up loss particles, then a final pass, couple strokes back and forth (straight lines) to bring out the shine.

Is this too much, not enough, just right?

P.S. I usually wax the whole car front to back and let it sit for a few hours. Heard this helps, especially with liquid waxes to allow wax to bond to paint.

bretfraz · May 2003

I was gonna make this long detailed post about interior care then I realized someone beat me to it. So read this article and enjoy: http://autopia-carcare.com/incl.html

I detailed a Porsche 928GT today and did the interior by hand. Lots of vacuuming, cleaned all plastic surfaces, cleaned and conditioned leather seats, the whole 9 yards. It took me 2 hours and the interior was already very nice.

Regular upkeep is the key to a new looking and smelling interior. Create a regimen and follow it. Keep out food, cigarettes, smelly animals, smelly people, etc. Do a full on interior detail twice a year. Interiors are easy to do if kept up but a real challenge if neglected.

terceltom1 · May 2003

Sounds like this forum made you believe that you could do better then Nu-Finish. It sounds like you were very happy with the Nu-Finish but decided to use something else just to help sell your car. You talked about ease of use and appearance. In my oppinion nothing I know is easier to use and looks better and last longer then Nu-Finish. And the cost is very, very affordable($5.00-bottle). After joining this forum and reading these posts I also allowed myself to think that something else might be better and it was time to try something else, but I now know I was wrong. I have been using Nu-Finish for 15 years and recently tried Klasse AIO and Klasse sealant glaze on my 2001 vehicle and it could not come close to the Nu-Finish in ease of use,cost,appearance and longevity.

lapvn · May 2003

Just wanted to double check with you. Can you please tell me if my notes and shopping list are correct.

Clay – You suggest I get Mothers or Clay Magic.

Leather – Eagle One, but your preference is Lexol. Someone else noted the Gold Class is fine as well.

Carpet – Standard Scotchguard.

Interior Dash and seat backing – This is where I am confused. I think our interior when kept clean is shiny enough. What do you suggest to protect the dash from Mr. Sun and it’s cousin UV Ray. Let’s call this “Brand X”. If I still wanted the shine, is there anything wrong with me applying AA on top of Brand X?

For those of you who suggested other items, I thank you. I am trying to keep the interior gadget expense to a minimum, so ordering on line was not an option. Something at my local store was of my calling. The exterior though is a different story. Again thank you everyone.

bretfraz · May 2003

CLAY - Yup, either one is fine.

LEATHER CARE - Well, I don't recall recommending Lexol. My preference is for Eagle One and Pinnacle but Lexol is a good alternative. At least you can find Lexol at local stores where the other two are harder to find. I detailed a Porsche 928GT yesterday and used Pinnacle's leather cleaner and conditioner and both products are awesome. I'd use them 24/7 if they weren't so dang expensive.

CARPET - You need a spot remover. Household ones work fine (i.e. Resolve). Beyond that Scotchgard is fine as a stain protectant.

DASH AND INTERIOR - If you want to use AA protectant on the dash and interior trim, by all means try it. But I'm not sure you'll like the shine. I know I don't. The least glossy and best protectant is 303 Aerospace protectant. I think you can find it locally at marine supply stores and places that sell boats. Ya might want to call around and ask if they have it in stock.

lapvn · May 2003

You are correct, I mis-read your posting. Sorry, you did say your preferences was Eagle. Error noted. Thanks again for all your help.

Great link by the way.

lapvn · May 2003

Does anyone know where I can pick some up? Looking for a local auto store, I don't really want to have to order online if I don't have to.

nutpolish · May 2003

Is it redundant to use both? If not, which should you use first? Logic would tell me GEPC first, then #7, but you never know.

Also, anybody know of any stores in So. Cal area that sell Blitz Wax and P21s products? I hate mail ordering stuff. Looks like Pep Boys, Autozone, etc. don't carry.

TIA.

bretfraz · May 2003

I think they're redundant for the most part. GEPC has a little cleaning ability whereas #7 has none. Frankly, after using GEPC I'd never go back to a glaze unless I was showing the car or a customer wanted it.

dad16 · May 2003

I purchased it at a small auto part store in Ca and I am sure I also saw it in Kragen. Like I said before the 303 Fabric Guard is a way better product than scotchguard plus it has uv protection. The 303 protectant is easy to find, but the Fabric guard I had to order on line. Well, well worth it.

lapvn · May 2003

Actually I found a store that sells the 303 products nearby. As bret mentioned a Marine and boaters store nearby.

Dad16, I know you love the 303 products. Was it you who said that they use it on the headlights?

dad16 · May 2003

All I can say is just try it for yourself. When used regularly the uv protection in 303 will prevent fading of the plastic lens of your auto's lights.

I have used the aerospace protectant on so many different things from: spa cover to black plastic covers under the hood, interior dash, rubber molding around doors and windows and it always does an great job. Go to the makers web page and check out some of the applications. Sorry, I am not savvy enough to add a link to this post. My spa cover still looks brand new and its 5 years old. Its vinyl sits in the Ca sun 300 days a year and I cannot detect any fading or deterioration. That is simply amazing to me. I started using it on the cars with similar success.

Another application that is cool is the white haze that occurs when wax is not completely removed from rubber trim or molding that you just can't seem to get off. Try 303 Aero and it will easily remove it.

On the Fabric Guard a carpet guy got me started. He showed me a large wall with windows in his show room that got lots of sun. He treated an area with Scotchguard and one area with FG. The SG area was faded and the FG area was not and both areas got equal amounts of sun. So I put it on in front of my patio slider and it has protected the carpet from fading. It had previously faded and thats one of the reasons for replacement.

I ordered a gal. and used a pump up sprayer to do the Ody, then had the home carpets cleaned and treated them. Spills, foot traffic, dog slobber are all but a distant memory.

Any way it has just offered me stellar results and no I don't own any of their stock. Its just a dam good product.. Thanks for all your questions, I am continuing to discover new products.

lapvn · May 2003

Besides the fact that I love a clean exterior, I also try to make the engine as clean as I can. I use that Gunk engine cleaner, (sorry, thats the only one that I know of) and after it's dry, I then spray Armor All through out the engine to make it shine and repel any paint. I now know that AA is bad for your engine, but what about using 303 Protectant all over the engine.

Have you or anyone else tried this?

bretfraz · May 2003

I've been doing that trick for years. Get the engine clean, let it dry (run the engine), then spray a protectant to improve appearance. I used 303 on the Porsche I detailed the other day. Worked great!!

lapvn · May 2003

Bret, thank you. I was hoping you or dad would come back to me with the exact answer you just gave. That is great. I can't wait.

With AA, I just sprayed all over the engine. Is this what you do as well with the 303?

bretfraz · May 2003

A light even coat then a wipe down. Should look great!!

lapvn · May 2003

I really think I have all my answers now.

I am in the NJ area, does anyone know where I can buy some SUN and also some 70 degree temp? After all June is only 1 week away. What gives.

Anyone know any specials for Sun and 70 Degree packages?

RAIN RAIN RAIN, all through out the weekend. THIS SUCKS

lapvn · May 2003

How often do you guys apply 303 Protectant?

How often do you guys apply the 303 Fabric Guard?

chile96 · May 2003

Well, I finally took Bret's advice and ordered the Meguiar's sealant(#20?) and the soap. The shipment came in last week and today was my first chance to wash the new bimmer with my new potion. This may be stupid but how do I apply the sealant?

Thanks for any info
fo

lapvn · May 2003

I applied the cleaner just as the Lexol site said so. Then wipe it down. I then proceeded to shake the conditioner bottle before applying. The directions say to apply to a wet applicator, so I did. I was surprise to see that the solution of the leather conditioner was very watery. I expected a leather conditioner to be a thicker consistency. Is this right? Also I don't smell anything? Seats don't feel any slippery. Do my products sound right?

ALSO, I bought clay magic this past weekend and did the 10 year old car and it was a whole lot of difference in the shine. It took the entire clay to clear out the car. In fact I just need to buy the clay it self now.

imidazol97 · May 2003

Where can I buy the leather conditioner
by Eagle 1 and Pinnacle that Bretfraz had
suggested. I can only find MacGuires' at
Autozone, PepBoys, Walmart, ADvanced Auto...

lapvn · May 2003

That is how I bought the lexol product. Pep boys had a bunch of Eagle 1 products but not the leather cleaner or conditioner.

rjs200240 · May 2003

I've never noticed mine to be the consistency of water. It is a bit thin, though. I've never used a damp pad to apply it. It shouldn't leave your leather feeling slick. I'm not sure why you would want it to. It should leave it feeling nice leathery, and probably a bit softer. Though it depends on what the leather feels like in the first place.

lapvn · May 2003

First I apologize if these are stupid questions, I never had a car with leather interior.

2nd - So you are saying it is ok to apply the Lexol conditioner with a dry applicator.

3rd - I really did not want the slick feeling, but just want to make sure I am doing this correctly. That is why I was kind of concerned when I did not feel a difference and also there was no scent of leather.

I think what I will do tonight is apply another coat of the conditioner.

gearhead10 · May 2003

I've found the Lexol products to work well. The conditioner is kinda thin but thicker than water and with a mild smell. Leaves the leather very soft (well, if it was soft leather in the first place). I've seen the Eagle One products at Kragen's but haven't tried them yet. They cost less than Lexol so may try next but I've still got half-full bottles of Lexol left. I haven't seen the Pinnacle products anywhere though.

lapvn · May 2003

Does anyone know if the back of the leather seats of our 2003 Ody is leather. From what I understand most cars have the front as leather and the back as Vinyl.

Also for those who protect the leather, do you also do the doors?

mbdriver · May 2003

Most cars today have only the seating sufaces done in leather. The remainder of the interior is almost always vinyl or cloth (headliner). This holds true even in luxuruy cars.

I have an MB E320, and only the seats and door air bags are done in leather.

Hope this helps

lapvn · May 2003

mbdriver, thank you. I was just kind of concerned because it seemed like it blended right in with the leather. Would the vinyl get damage if I got some leather cleaner / conditioner on them?

I have compiled a 19 page cliff notes of everything I got here and other forums. One note said to make sure I get all the cleaner off of the seats. Well, I guess I should have read my notes more before doing this. I did wring out the applicator and tried as hard as I can to take off most of the cleaner from the seats. Then I used a dry towel and thoroughly wipe each seat before applying the conditioner.

QUESTION: Since I did not take off most of the cleaner with the applicator, did I damage the clearcoat protectting the leather seats? Did I help by drying the seat off with a dry towel?

This car is mainly a weekend car, so yesterday it just sat in the garage. At night I decided to apply another coat of the conditioner, just the conditioner. Am I waisting my time and conditioner by adding additional coats?

Store Bought Waxes Part II (No Zaino Posts)

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