Store Bought Waxes Part II (No Zaino Posts)

robr2 · November 2004

Wax is basically a layer of protection between the paint and the environment. It usually provides some optical improvement qualities as well.

mikewinlds · November 2004

Robr2,

Why would you want to remove the wax layer? I'm reading through these two threads (and there are a lot of posts, so I don't know when I'll get done) and I've seen people talking about waxes that are easy to apply and to take off. Why would you want to take it off it it's protecting your car? And how do you go about taking it off? How do you know if you've taken it off? Once I've buffed the wax onto my car, I can't even tell it's there.

robr2 · November 2004

I guess it depends on what taking the wax off means.

With wax, the typical process involves applying the wax and letting it haze over. You then remove the haze - not the wax - by wiping if off.

Most waxes don't last very long - typically a few weeks at most for vehicles that live outside. Some people who are fanatics (or own trailer/garage queens) don't like multiple layers of wax because it can yellow and reduce the shine. Hence, they may actually remove the previous layer of wax before applying a new layer.

As for ease of applying and wiping off, the newer wax products are so much easier to use than the waxes of old.

Also, there are plenty of polymer based sealants that are not considered waxes that may or may not work as well as wax.

Good Luck.

mikewinlds · November 2004

Here's another quick question: How do you know what kind of coat your car has? I've seen so far talks about cars having a clear coat, and I'm not sure if there are others or not. What's it all mean?

Also about the detailing clays. Can you just use plain water as a lubricant before using the clay to remove the impurities and such? I've never clayed before and am thinking of getting some to test out the next time I wash and wax my car.

robr2 · November 2004

Clearcoat - most cars today have a clear coat. If in doubt, ask the service dept at the dealer.

Clay - I use some car wash soap and water in a spray bottle. I guess you can use water. Heck, this weekend I was cleaning up a couple of little bird poop spots on my paint before applying a sealant and I was too lazy to go back into the basement for my spray bottle so I used spit. It seemed to work.

Hey Bret - you're the expert. Help my out here!!

bretfraz · November 2004

Just a little help for ya, Rob, to expand on your comments:

CLEARCOATS - The easiest way to test for a clearcoat is to rub a little bit of paint polish or car wax w/cleaner on a hidden area of the car. If the color of the paint shows on your applicator, no clearcoat. If there is no color, your paint has a clearcoat. The vast majority of cars produced in the last 10 yrs have a clearcoated paint job.

CLAY - Most paint detailing clay kits include a bottle of spray lubricant. If you have a clay bar w/o the lube, I strongly recommend one or at least the use of a soap/water mix in a spray bottle. There needs to be a lubrication agent for the clay to work and not scratch the paint. Water is not slippery enough to do this. Just about any quick detail spray will do the trick, and a bottle is only a couple of dollars.

mikewinlds · November 2004

I just polished (Meg's Deep Crystal), glazed (Meg's #7), and waxed (Meg's #26 paste) my car right now. I was using terry bonet applicators for the polish and glaze and it did come off a little red on the applicator (my car's color is red), so does that mean no clear coat? But I only noticed the red towards the end, so does that mean the portion when I started seeing red, the clear coat has wasted away there? I don't know whether it was because I was using the terry bonet style applicator, applying too much pressure, or what, but when I waxed using the foam applicator no red showed up.

The clear coat is supposed to protect the car from the elements right, or what exactly does it do? What happens if there is no clear coat on the car (like the really older model cars). Waxing helps to add a layer of protection, right? So cars with clear coats and waxing have like double protection?

sequoiasoon · November 2004

OK, I use Z on my cars but Klasse and others also on other family members cars. I had only starting using clay bars just prior to getting Z and was thoroughly impressed with what it removed and how smooth it was when done. Now I have a couple questions.

Toyota just released a TSB regarding "IRON PARTICLE RUST CONTAMINATION REPAIR" (i.e. rail dust etc.)They say "Washing the affected paint surfaces with an oxalic acid solution is the recommended method to dislodge embedded iron particles and remove the surrounding rust stains." and recommend using Auto Magic Special Cleaner Concentrate #713. The MSDS has pH: ~11 to 12

What effect will this have on the particles and paint? Will it work better if the particles are larger or smaller (i.e. before or after clay)? Will it even work at this point with a couple coats of Z or Klasse on it? Should I do it? I plan on doing the full treatment in spring again anyway (Dawn, clay, etc) but should I follow the clay with this stuff THEN dawn wash the second time and then wax? What are the GURU's consensus here?

I notice on my older car that I see what appears to be many small pinhole type marks in my hood after 11 years even though it was cleaned and waxed very well over the years. It wasn't clayed until about 2 years ago for the first time. I had also noticed this on MANY other older vehicles from family and friends and just looking when out at malls etc. Did the embedded rail dust cause this? Will the clay prevent itsince it removed most of the particles? By itself or with addition of Auto Magic?

gregoryc1 · January 2005

Best wax: ----Collinite #885 paste wax for marine & aeronautical finishes. It is a non-abrasive product.

alwaysfords2 · January 2005

#885 is good and is consistently rated tops by boat magazines. I use that on my boat. I use Super Double Coat (#920 I think)on my cars. I spoke with someone in technical sales a few years back and he said there are subtle differences in all their products but that lots of people use them interchangeably for different applications. The #920 does last significantly longer on cars than anything I've ever tried. Never tried 885 on the car.

marsha7 · January 2005

but I hope y'all understand what I am asking...I own two new cars, a 2004 Crown Victoria (charcoal gray, almost black) and a 2004 Dod Ram 1500 (bright silver)...I want to protect the paint, make them shine, and water to bead up when it rains...I understand from previous posts that most vehicles in the last 10 years have clearcoat, so I will assume that I do, too...am I better off using a wax (carnuba?) product or a polymer product that just wipes on and wipes off...which lasts longer and which is better for the paint???...do I have to prep the surface at all, or just go to a good car wash???...I expect this will be done by a detail shop, but do I want to avoid a motorized applicator and have them do it by hand???,,,(yes, I know it will cost more by hand)...I am just afraid that a machine buffer might remove the paint before the tech knows what is happening...thoughts, anybody?

tmart · January 2005

products last longer than carnuba waxes. The unmentional one will easily last 6 months or more with only one or two coats. If you use a polymer, the vehicle should be washed first with Dawn to remove any wax already on the car. Claying is an option but not required.

tntitan · January 2005

Most good sealants will last much longer than most waxes. IMO you DEFINITELY need to clean the paint by using a "paint cleaner" or clay (even on a brand new car) to prep the surface prior to applying the wax/sealant. If there are swirls or minor scratches (usually acquired from washing or new car dealer prep) they will need to be polished prior to wax/sealant. I don't believe there is such a thing as a "good car wash" that you can use. Either do it yourself or pay a detailer that knows how to repair and PREVENT swirls.

jared1195 · February 2005

After years and years of search for that perfect wax, I believe I found the "one". Its the P21s. I couldn't believe I can make my white car shine as much as it shines now regardless of what wax I use but the P21s is amazing. It doesn't stain black plastics and it's just as easy to use as any carnauba based wax. My car is 5 years old and yet after waxing and before that claying with Mothers California Gold and polishing with Meguiars, my car is better that when it was new.

Oh, I bought it online at autosupermart. I just thought I'd share my experience.

(Man, I sounded like a commercial)

qwalls · February 2005

P21s is a great wax. It's what I used before switching to the stuff I can't talk about here. :-)

tntitan · February 2005

..really is easy to use and looks great. However, S100 (which can be bought at any Harley dealership) is the exact same wax but only costs $14.95 with no shipping costs.

sandman46 · February 2005

I bought mine at the local Harley store and just love the product, my silver car looked unbelievable after the 1st coat. Hopefully when my lower back problems go away and I can give up my cane, I will get to use the S100 again!

The Sandman :-)

ljwalters1 · March 2005

I want to have a really nice car, but I'm lazy about it. What's the best product to get a really good shine, if not the best, from an all-in-one. Generally, what I do is wet the car and rub it down quickly (it's amazing how much dirt comes off with just that simple procedure). Then I either use a wash/wax combo or once per year (before rainy season) I'll use a separate wash and wax.

tntitan · March 2005

Mothers Cleaner Wax is a good one step shine that is available locally. I hope you have a light colored car because rubbing down a dirty wet car has got to be causing a lot of swirls and micro-marring.

yukon2005 · March 2005

It is better then Mother's Back to Black. I use Mother's this weekend hoping to get the plastic trim back to a descent black but it did not do the job. I used Lexol Vinylex and it is awesome. It was easy and all plastic came out great.

yukon2005 · March 2005

I have tried the Meguiars tire Gel that is suppose to last weeks. It does shine great but the dang flinge all over fender, glasse, etc. Maybe I should have put it on and let it sit for a couple fo hours.

yukon2005 · March 2005

I used it on the hood of my 2005 Yukon, carbon metallic. Was not impress. I would have returned it but I lost the receipt. I bought Klasse and use it on my wife 1998 civic after Meguire wax cleaner and it is awesome. I am a little scare to use on the 2005 Yukon but will do to same process on a white 1997 accord just got wax with NuFinish. I was not impress with NuFinish either was seeing what Klasse did to my wife's car.

koury · March 2005

Call me crazy (or suggest a different method), but I literally spent hours trying to get the dirt off my Navi's rims on Saturday. I used PS21 and a fairly abrasive brush, but I could not get them clean. Getting desparate, I took a Brillo pad and tested an area of the textured portion of the rim (in between the spokes), and the dirt came right off, with NO scratches. I ended up cleaning all 4 tires this way, and they look like new - even the non-textured spokes didn't get scratched.

Am I nuts? Anyone have a better method that actually works? What's the most aggressive wheel cleaning brush you've seen that can get dirt off a textured spoke?

toyotafan6 · April 2005

I also want my car to look good with minimal time & effort. About every 10 days, I wash my car by hand using Eagle One's Wet Car Wash - after rinsing and while it's still wet, I spray on Eagle One's Wax as U Dry and dry it using the Absorber...I clean the windows with Stoner's Invisible Glass - I get alot of compliments on how good my car looks - it's a 2001 Corolla LE - good little car, good gas mileage too.

teamgomez · April 2005

David-

CR Spotless has just released a new design that will rid you of your monthly service fees- I just got one of their new units and it works awesome. They now use filters that are good for about 100 gallons, enough for me to wash 2-3 veh/wk and they last 5 weeks. Check it out!

~John

ofcrimson · April 2005

I used the Meguiar's Tech Wax this weekend after claying my 3 month old car. It is a very reflective wax, and made my carbon gray pearl (dark metallic gray) look like a mirror.

However, when the sun hits my car and I look into the reflection, I can see a lot of very very small micro-scratches. I can only see the scratches in when a light directly reflects off the car (and not from every angle). On cloudy days, the micro-scratches can't be seen from any angle. The The guy at Meguiar's said to use the scratch X product, but I would have to do the entire car. When I apply something to the entire car, I want it to make the car look better and protect. Please help with some suggestions to make the micro-scratches disappear and protect my car from future damages.

ljwalters1 · April 2005

let me start this post with a warning: I'm a regular guy who likes my car to look nice, but I won't go through that much trouble. I go to car washes and use combination wash 'n' wax products to make things go quickly. I wash my car with the sponge and bucket that the dealership gave me when I got the car.

Anyway, from what I've been reading on this and the Zaino posts, those scratches are probably in the clearcoat polish of the car, not the paint. From what I understand, you have the steal car, then the primer coat, then the paint, then the polish, and then the wax.

If you wash your car with regular Dawn dishwashing soap, you'll strip the car down to the paint. You can then apply a new coat of polish that won't have any scratches in it, followed by a wax. I think it takes a long time for the polish to dry, and you need several coats, but if you're a do-it-yourselfer, this may be the way to go.

alwaysfords2 · April 2005

Washing with Dawn doesn't strip your car to the paint, it removes old wax and oily build up (and makes your hands soft). It strips your car to the clear coat, which is not a "polish" it is a hard coating over the paint. The scratches are in the clear coat and to take care of them you need to glaze the car which smoothes out the swirls and fills them in. After glazing you need to wax again. Scratch X is a spot scratch remover as far as I know, and not intended as a "whole car" application. All the big hitters make glazes of various types, just check the shelves. I'm partial to 3M Imperial Hand Glaze, but there are lots of different varieties.

tntitan · April 2005

A glaze will only fill in the scratches and will only temporarily fix the problem. You need a polish and either a lot of muscle or a porter cable random orbital polisher (safe route but will still take some work) or a rotary polisher (much easier to fix swirl marks but can quickly damage clear coat if not used properly). You might want to go to www.autopia.com and do some research.

robr2 · April 2005

Also, check what you are using when you wash and wax your car. Get rid of the cheap sponges and old t-shirts. Get some high quality cotton towels and micro-fiber cloths.

ofcrimson · April 2005

Thanks for all of the responses and helpful information. I don't mind just hiding the scratches, for a couple of reasons. 1) they are very very small and no one except myself has noticed them. 2) I am not comfortable using the porter cable / other polisher on my car.

So, if I just want to use a sealant, is Klasse topped with a good carnuba wax the way to go?

robr2 - do you use the microfiber cloths to wash your car? i currently only use them to buff, but I have plenty. i am washing with a chenille mit.

tmart · April 2005

Try forbidden #5.

robr2 · April 2005

robr2 - do you use the microfiber cloths to wash your car? i currently only use them to buff, but I have plenty. i am washing with a chenille mit.

No I do not - I use the aforementioned cotton towels. I also try to wash in straight lines as opposed to circles to minimize swirl marks.

As for product, I also use the forbidden #5. It works for me and as such I have not tried other swirl hiding products.

nzuercher · April 2005

How is the best way to repair a car in which the clear coat is badly oxidized, scratched, flaking off, and in some places gone entirely? I don't expect to make it look brand new or anything, just want to make it look better than it does now and also prevent further damage.

I have heard about "wet sanding" and I tried that on a small area. However, it takes forever and is a lot of work b/c I had to remove the clear coat down to the base paint before it looked OK. Then, how do you protect the paint after removing all of the clear coat?

bretfraz · April 2005

Sorry to say but paint in that condition is a goner. The clearcoat existed to protect the color coat, and now that the clear is compromised or gone, the entire paint job is toast.

Feel free to experiment with wetsanding to see if you get positive results, but the vast majority of detailers and pro painters won't mess with it at this point. There is no shortcut I am aware of.

Good luck with it.

camrybabe · April 2005

Washed my car (6 month old 2005 Camry) with Meguiars' Gold Class Car Wash - 1 hour.
Car glitters as good as new.
Then followed it up with a muscle building waxing (Gold Class wax) and removal. Didn't have the time to do one door panel.
How does the glitter of the rest of the car compare with this door panel?
No difference!

Wondering how many of you got that impression.

lokki · May 2005

I'm almost afraid to ask this:

Is anyone else using their leaf blower to "blow-dry" their car after washing it? I got tired of chamois and chamois-substitutes.... No water spotting and much faster than chamois drying.

This is working great for me, but it's so easy it seems sinful somehow..... will I go to BMW hell for this?

By the way, I'm a longtime fan of Klasse All-in-One. It's easy to use, cleans well, and protects for a long time. I also like the sealer, but it's almost as hard to use as All-In-One is easy. I find that it's good for 6 or 7 months here in the brutal Dallas sun before it stops beading up properly...

lmacmil · May 2005

"Is anyone else using their leaf blower to "blow-dry" their car after washing it?"

I'm sure your neighbors love you for doing that.

imidazol97 · May 2005

What a great idea.

My neighbor uses Downy in buckets of rinse water which he throws over his Acuras after washing. Reduces spotting.

lokki · May 2005

Don't worry... when I do this, my neighbors are all in Church, or at least they're supposed to be.

lmifazol - Downy ?... hmmmmmm ... Really?

imidazol97 · May 2005

Yes, the fabric softner liquid. Just splashes it over his black/dark navy blue/white Acura 3.5RLs and Legend. He had mentioned this when meeting with some people at P&G. (His business has ties with P&G headquarters.)

They did not react when told. A few months later Mr. Clean has a spray unit for purchase (a P&G brand) which uses softner in rinse water. I has the same effect as the wax that I tried years ago that was supposed to keep water from beading and causing spotting after rains: the water sheets off.

bretfraz · May 2005

I have a backpack leaf blower and the time and effort it took to bust it out, start it, put it on and blow water from the car wasn't worth the results for me. Even my pro blower doesn't generate enough air volume to do the job for me. If I want water out of body seams and crevices, I just take her 'round the block for a spin.

lmacmil · May 2005

I took delivery of a new black (my first black car) Camry SE-V6 five weeks ago today. I have already washed it 4 times. The water still beads nicely. Wondering how long before I should wax it?

Been using Turtle Wax 2001 on my other cars but thinking of trying something more premium like Meguiar's Gold or Zymol. Any recommendations?

andrelaplume · May 2005

I am in panic mode! I have a 2002 White Camry. I assume it is clearcoated...? For years we have only bought WHITE cars. At times we have suffered with those nasty streaks you tend to only see on white cars. My 1989 Topaz was NOT clearcoated and in addition to the those streaks dirt got in the paint and you would need to compund the car to get it out. In 1996 I got a new Mystique that WAS clearcoated and the problem (sans some easily removed streaks under the outside mirrors) went away. I usually wax my 02 Camry 4 times a year with NuFinish...it always has worked well for me. Well, its spring so it was time for a wax. After washing the car I noticed some streaks and dirt in the paint over most of the car. I started waxing but immediately noticed the NuFinsh shined the car but up close you could see the dirt...like the car had a bad complextion. Scrub as I might I could not get the dirt out. It brought back memories of my old Topaz but that car was NOT clearcoated; I assume the Camry is! (It is kept outdoors but it does not appear the paint is oxidized or anything---unless Toyota paint does not hold up outside - I'd expect it to though after only 3 years)

I went to the auto store and found a Meguiars product called Clean and Wax. It appeared to bejust what I wanted: Safe for clearcoat, Removes swirls, removes dirt, waxes to a gloss shine, may be applied to the entire car at one time - no need for a section at a time, just cover the car and wipe off with a terry towel. Sounded simple enough.

Well I worked the back end of my car first. I started an hour before dusk so I was in the shade and the car cool. I applied the wax and had to rub hard but it appeared to remove the dirt. I ONLY applied it a section at a time even though it said you could coat the whole vehicle at one time. I did the trunk and rear qaurter up to the rear doors. After wiping on and 'cleaning' I applied another coat and wiped off with a clean rag. Up close it looked shiny and clean. At one point I stepped back and almost fainted. The entire rear of the looks like it is covered in some sort of dull haze--in the paint---ie you can not wipe it off, even with a bare finger! From a distance it looks shiny but as you approach at a certain angle it looks like it has been coated with something that does not rub off. Night has fallen and it has started to rain. The water appears to bead. I am afraid of what I may find in the morning! There is a tech number on the wax bottle for whatever good it will do.

Does anyone have any experience in this area? I am really scared I will not be able to get this junk off? Should I use my trusty old NuFinish over it? It just seams as though there is a coating of something on my car that should come off first!

HELP PLEASE!

Thanks!

fish8 · May 2005

You can wax a new car IMMEDIATELY after taking delivery. The time between when the car is painted at the factory and when it appears on the dealers lot allows the paint to cure. I have waxed ALL of my cars within days of taking delivery. My Dad just purchased a '05 Avalon and waxed it within 2 hours of owning it. It won't harm the car to wax it ASAP.

fish8 · May 2005

The products you are using are not causing your paint to look the way it does. It sounds like the preperation was not completed correctly. You may need to clay your car prior to waxing. Wash car with Dawn Dish Soap.......clay your car and them apply a good coat of wax. For further washings...use car wash soap. Not Dish soap. The initial use of dish soap strips the car of all wax and lets you start fresh.

andrelaplume · May 2005

The rain eliminated the haze and then I used NuFinsih. It is still smudgy in spots so next time I will follow your advise! I m ust admit I do not know what 'clay' means but will find out!

andrelaplume · May 2005

Anyone use these? Do they work or are they for suckers? Any comments are appreciated. If they do work can the be stored in the car or does the hot/cold weather affect them?

Also, I bought one of those new wands you clean your windows with....suppose to be streak free. You may have seen them at WalMart for $6. Looks like a triangle covered in foam with a handle attached. You slip a micofiber cover over it and then wet the window and rub it dry with the wand. It worked pretty well, not perfect but much less work and streaking than when I did the windows by hand. Of course maybe a simple microfiber cloth would do just as well though I do not know where you find one. Comments?

canc · May 2005

The California Car Duster works really well if the dust on the car hasn't been sitting there in the sun for a couple of days. I have one, and it works great--no streaks, no scratches. It's basically a woolen mitt with carnauba wax sprayed on it, which attracts the dust. It's great if you live around a construction area, where the airborne dust that will settle on your car will be quickly grabbed up by the duster.

fish8 · May 2005

Just don't use them on your windows. It tends to smear the glass.

Store Bought Waxes Part II (No Zaino Posts)

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