Go back a number of posts and you'll see that I defended you when a number of people jumped all over one of your posts. But I have to disagree with your post #412. On a number of occassions, the pro-Zaino folks have made very innocent comments, some as vague as to go and visit the Zaino site for an alternative. And as soon as that happens, the folks over here cry heresy and start the bashing war. So it goes both ways - you can't always blame the Zaino folks for picking fights. It's a shame that this discussion cannot be used as a reference to a different discussion to expand on people's knowledge of EVERYTHING that is available in car care products. Isn't that the intent?
I agree that when someone from the other group comes in to agressively challenge, then maybe it's wrong and not respecting the topic. If someone makes a quick reference to help expand someone's knowledge, as I did, then that should be OK. Why that would breed confrontation is beyond me - we should let the reference do its job and point people to another discussion, and move on. No harm, no foul.
I guess my question is: Is the body of knowledge complete and contained in the last 900 or so posts? Is there more knowledge left to be gained and shared or are we doomed to repeat ourselves?
I am looking for the Eagle One Concours tire dressing, but cannot find it. I have looked at Wal Mart, Autozone and Advance Auto so far. Any suggestions?
(All of you KNEW you'd have to run into them sooner or later, right? ;-> )
I think this is a useful topic and I think the Zaino topic is a useful one.
The problem I have discovered since we went with the name "Zaino Car Care Experiences" is that a new member looking for wax topics will never find it. (My fault totally, if I recall correctly, I suggested that name to Bruce.)
I think our members should have equal access to both topics - which is why I have tried to temper the objections to mentions of "Z" in this topic.
So, Bruce, how about if we get "wax" in the Zaino topic name?
And how about if everyone else - Z and non-Z proponents - just agree that all of us have different opinions of what is best, we can all find whatever topics we are interested in (as long as they have appropriate key words in their names!) and we can all make up our own minds.
If someone asks in this topic what is easiest, best, shiniest, most cost-effective, then let us assume they are speaking of Store Bought Waxes only. Zaino does not fit in that category, clearly.
OTOH, if somone wants to criticize the Z stuff, or anything related to Zaino, take the criticism to THAT topic, and leave it out of this one completely.
How does that sound, folks?
Pat Community Leader/Maintenance & Repair Conference
Sounds fine to me, as long as everyone can adhere to the rules that you just laid out. Like I said in an earlier post, Zaino may be great (heck, I may even give it a try some time), but I am tired of hearing about it on this board. My 2 cents worth.
why some people here are so vehemently ANTI Zaino without even trying it. AND when someone makes the slightest reference to the Z product, trying to suggest an alternative to another poster, even MORE time is wasted jumping all over him!
Why not just ignore the post and let other readers make their own decision? It seems that many here want to deny even the possibility that there may be something better than the "old way". How closed-minded is that?
We are all here because we want the best for our cars (at least most of us are). I have found a lot of useful information that was not "right on" the topic. I think some people need to loosen their britches a little.
silvercoupe - Pat hit it on the head: when you search on "wax", the Zaino topic does not show up. I would never have known about Zaino if someone didn't make a reference to it in one of these "non-Zaino" forums. We need to respect the intents of these discussion boards, one of which is to enhance all of our knowledge about that particular subject. And in this case, it's car care - more specifically, the general subject of waxing, of which Zaino doesn't register when you do a search. And the only reason to close a board is when people get silly and vindictive, which we've seen time and again. I just don't get that.
Two problems have been raised about this topic that need to be addressed: repetitiveness and topic coverage.
Unless Edmunds develops an extensive and easy-to-use capability to cross-reference to previous posts, you will always get newcomers asking questions that have been asked and answered before; too few folks are disposed to using the Search function. (Why do you think Americans "demand" quick-start instructions in addition to an extensive manual for products?) Fortunately, there have been those willing to respond to those posts. I don't think it is user/public-friendly or, probably, practical for Hosts to respond to all repeated questions with topic and post numbers.
There is a problem with the way the current two forums exist; each is too narrow for a newcomer. At first glance, a dedicated Zaino topic would seem unfair, but it appears that the numbers and the discussion heat called for the separation that was made. But, why would a newcomer understand what the Zaino topic is about without "polish" in the title, and what explains what "(No Zaino Posts)" means to a newcomer? Perhaps a solution could be a topic aimed at "snagging" newcomers that generally explains the two most popular protectant types, natural and polymer; that the product ranges from the very inexpensive ones available in mass quantites from popular outlets to higher-end products available through specialty stores, mail-order, and Web sites with links to the ongoing edmunds.com topics, perhaps more generically named, discussing each of them.
This whole "which topic for only what" debate has gone on too long. I'm a Z user, but I've never gotten up on a soap box to preach its use here. And if I can do that, so can we all. And to those narrow minded ones, be just a wee bit tolerant. If someone mentions that a certain Z product exists and references the other topic, leave it alone. Maybe a third topic: "Which is best: Wax or Polymer based products" could be created to allow those of us who get a charge out debating to get their rocks off.
Again, I could debate my own personal point of view herein up the kazoo with anyone out there. But what we are really talking about comes down to very subjective conclusions. Its a matter of taste. And as such, both side must learn to understand that there is room for all of us here.
But much more important, many of us still have questions about various aspects of car care and would actually like to learn more about the subject. From BOTH a Z and non-Z point of view. I've really learned a lot from this "non-Z" topic. Really. And I'd like to learn more. Given the emotional state of affairs here, however, I can only read and not really contribute. Unfortunately, what I'm reading is becoming more about this debate rather than the content I'm looking for.
than one car wax forum anyway. I want to know about all car wax products for my car, including Z and others.
Personally I use Meguiar's Premium Medallion. I park next to a Z user who thinks I use Z. He can't tell, so I have not put in my order for Z. But I do want to know about Z and other products for my car because I want to keep it looking nice. Let's just get back to ONE wax topic to cover all car paint protection products!
The Wax Shop sold out to Turtle Wax about six months ago. Their products were loaded with silicone, made the car look good temporarily but washed off after the first rain or wash.
Has anyone used Meguiar's "Show Car Glaze"? Is this a stand alone product or do you have to follow it up with a protective wax coat? The link in responses #413 & #428 suggests the need to wax over Show Car Glaze. Won't some of the deep shine be lost by applying wax over it?
Have not done chemical analysis of the product, but could tell the way it attracted dust and left smudge marks on my car after I used the product. Just my opinion.
I wash car almost every week. So's my vehicle is always lookin good. Use Meguiars Carnaba. It works good but doesn't last(bead) as long as Nu Finish. Three things I like about the Carnaba:
1. Applies easily. Buffs out nicely. Much less dust.
2. Odor is not strongly "chemical".
3. No chaulky white hard-to-get-rid-of residue on edges or black surfaces.
i have a 2000 dodge intrepid, silver and the paint appears blotchy in sunlight, i waxed it with rain - x 's new wax and i update it with maguires detailing wax not sure how to get rid of it havent waxed it for a while thinking it might be the maguiers detail ??
the blotchiness is hard to describe its almost like patchwork, a clear spot then a darker cloudy spot, all over. good idea about the body shop. if is the paint, what are the chances the dealer will repaint it. there is still wax on it, i've only had it 4 months, didnt notice it initially, but i have a feeling its the paint job
I finally got to try out Meguiars Show Car Glaze on my black 2000 Eldorado. The car looked good with the glaze only. When I followed up with a coat of Pinnacle Souveran Wax (carnuba), the car looked brilliant. It was like looking into a mirror. My neighbors all made comments on the beautiful deep shine.
Bretfaz - Thanks for the advice regarding the glaze. I also found your advice about spraying water on a streaked wax job to be very helpful. No more streaks now. I also learned from past mistakes and now apply the wax sparingly instead of a heavy coat.
don't require any time to "cure", so you can wax it as soon as you get it. You have to wait for curing when a care is re-paint at a shop that doesn't "bake" it.
I'm torn between using Meguiers and Mothers for my brand new MPV. Which of the 2 will require less maintenance? Also, what should I use to clean my wheels (something safe) and also polish my tires? I've tried to read the whole thread, but I get more confusd the more I read.
Let me provide some information on Meguiar's products. I live in the upper midwest, and am a retired AF officer. Have always wanted my vehicles to look their best, and last a long time.
Have decided that the foundation of my car care will be the Meguiar's No. 20 Polymer Sealant. I use about 5 other of their products, but in a support role.
I have used the No. 20 on a 1987 Honda Accord and a 2000 Accord purchased last Nov. It is incredible! Goes on fairly easily. But it's best points are durability and resistance to mess. Poor words to describe it, but boy does it clean up easily. I wash it about every 2-3 weeks, and every time the bugs on the front come off with the sponge and wash water. Road tar comes off with the sponge or with the Quick Detailer. Very easy process, no hard rubbing.
The new car is silver, so it doesn't benefit as well as a dark color from the shine, but it looks great. The older car is darker blue, and no one can believe that it has 189,000 miles on it.
Getting to be cooler days now in the fall and time for the full up winter prep. Sure glad that the No 20 has such great durability. It will get me to the Feb thaw before I need to freshen it up. You can tell that I really like it.
AS mentioned above, you should not use the chemical wheel cleaners too often. If you keep a good wax or polymer finish on your wheels, you should be able to clean them easily with your car washing solution and a soft brush.
For the tires, a key point is to FIRST clean them with a stiff brush and "Westley's Bleche-White" rubber cleaner, or an equivalent. Get all the factory and road goop off, then treat them. I have been using Turtle Wax's 2001 tire gel, and it is pretty good. It dries hard, so it does not collect more dirt, and has a nice gloss. I only need to re-apply every 3 car washes or so.
I need to get something VERY mildly abrasive, i think, to get out some fine scratches. I don't mind usinng some elbow grease, so I want the finest abrasive possible. What would people suggest?
I actually have this but I was unaware it was an abrasive. I assumed it was only a "filler." But you hit it on the nose. I have fine scratches that are most obvious at night when the car is lit by a streetlight.. At that time the car looks pretty hazy. I think I need to try the hand glaze and a lot of elbow grease. Thanks.
I'm not sure about the RainX products, but my brother-in-law tried the Durashine. He likes it, but he's not as fanatical as I am about shine and durability. He has a black Tahoe and hand washes it once a week. He has some major swirls that are quite noticeable. I'm not sure if the swirls are from the towels/sponges he uses for washing and drying or from the Durashine. He also has to re-wax about once a month as the Durashine "shine" tends to go away after a few weeks.
Thanks for feedback. I've heard that Durashine does keep the water off, but it leaves a dull finish.
Yesterday my s.o. bought the complete line of Rainex ultra wax, fast wax, and car wash. He's looking for something that will reduce the water spots on our black maxima.
The Rainex claim is pretty strong; also, if he's not pleased with the product, he can return it to for a full refund at Discount Auto.
Anyway, we put it on his car last night. Went on very easily and the shine was brilliant. If people are interested, I'll keep them posted... Talk to everyone later. ;-)
I would be very interested in the results from RainX. How about pictures, if possible. Durability?
One of the ways to keep spotting down is to rinse your car thoroughly after washing. Then, take the pressure nozzle off of your hose and just let the water from the hose "flow" over your finish with no pressure (think of just letting "sheets" of water from the hose go over the car) as a final rinse. This cuts down on the spots as well as making the car easier to dry.
Well we live in Florida, so it doesn't matter how carefully we rinse the car. Chances are it will be raining later on in the day.
Also our neighborhood is canvassed with large oak trees creating a lot of dust & debris in the water... which is not so pretty on our jet black car.
But today after it rained, we did notice that there were very few water spots (just bearly visible) in the center of the hood. Usually they are everywhere... and large. So we believe the rain-x has made a big difference. I think I'll dab a little more of that rain-x ultra wax in the center of the hood now. ;-)
I'll keep you up to date on how long it lasts. Talk to you later.
I just tried this about 2 weeks ago. Blue Dawn, the the Hand Glaze, and following it up with Meguair's Gold. I was amazed at the difference it made. I did this on a 4 mo old '00 Monte Carlo SS that is Torch Red and an '85 Alfa Romeo Spider that is black. They both have a great, deep shine.
I have been reading about the different car waxes being recommended here and I've become confused. I have a Black, 00 Honda Accord. I am looking for a product that can produce a high gloss that is durable and can help with scratches. I bought Meguiar's Gold Class clearcoat paste wax but it hasn't been used. Should I use this product or should I use another one recommended here, Meguiar's Polymer Sealant or one of Meguiar's Glazes? Also, what is a good leather care product? Does Meguiar make a good product in this area, as well?
First, you should peruse this forum, the Store Bought Wax Forum, the Zaino Wax Forum. Various forms of your question have been answered in these forums many times previously.
IMHO, there are many very good wax auto wax products on the market, which will satisfy the needs of the majority of car owners.
Meguiars, are excellent products, which they market at, at least 2 levels, "general consumer" and "professional"- the "professional" line is the one most car buffs rec. (available at Pep Boys)
One Grand Blitz, P21S Paste, Pinnacle Souveran, and Collinite Marque D' Elegance among the most rec standard auto waxes. (most of these available thru online vendors, use a search engine to locate...like dogpile.com)
Zaino, Finish First, and Nu-Finish among the most rec polymer auto waxes. (Zaino, available directly from the manufacturer, Finish First from an on-line vendors, and Nu-Finish at Wal-Mart). Polymers are longer lasting than standard auto waxes.
You normally only need to use a "glaze" to remove minor scratches, swirl marks, minor contaminants, etc from the paint PRIOR to waxing. Also, many good products available: Meguiars, 3M Imperial Hand Glaze, P21S Gloss Enhancing Paintwork Cleanser, Zaino, etc. (Meguiars & 3M IHG at Pep Boys, P21S from on-line vendors)
Leather Care: Check out this topic in the Maintenance & Repair forum...I use Lexol leather cleaner + Lexol leather conditioner (available at Pep Boys)...avoid "one-step" products...not supposed to be as effective. I'm sure the Meguiars equivalent is also quite acceptable.
You can also check out Consumer Reports May 2K issue for their review of auto waxes, but they don't test most of the brands mentioned above.
A polish usually contains abrasive, which "grinds" away or polishes out scratches, swirl marks, debris, etc. from the paint. (this is where hand application is safer than using an electrical orbital polisher...you could polish off ALL the paint if you are not careful)
A wax contains either natural (carnnuba) or polymer "waxes" to protect the paint.
You can buy a product which contains both, now popularly known as "cleaner-waxes", but one step products are usually a compromise.
My $0.02, I'm sure others can render their interpretation also.
Most car buffs would rec only polishing/glazing cars twice a year, since you are removing a "layer" of paint when you perform this procedure. This is the step which gives your paint "the shine". Waxing protects the shine, which you need to do typically every 3 months with a natural wax or every 6-12 months with a polymer wax.
Thanks so much for your detailed response. I will definitely try your suggestions. Forgive me for not checking out previous forums prior to asking my questions.
Vernlew, thanks for the info. Can you recommend NuFinish or Zymol? NO NOT Zaino! ;-0 !! I purchased a bottle of both at Auto Zone, one is a cleaner wax and the other a polish. I kept my receipt! LOL! I can take them back. :-} Consumer Reports gave them both a thumbs up. My son and I are going to wax his 2 month old car, what do you recommend? If anyone else has a opinion or advice, please comment!
Comments
Pocahontas,
Town Hall Roving Host
I can't decide (obviously...).
Your host, Bruce
I think this is a useful topic and I think the Zaino topic is a useful one.
The problem I have discovered since we went with the name "Zaino Car Care Experiences" is that a new member looking for wax topics will never find it. (My fault totally, if I recall correctly, I suggested that name to Bruce.)
I think our members should have equal access to both topics - which is why I have tried to temper the objections to mentions of "Z" in this topic.
So, Bruce, how about if we get "wax" in the Zaino topic name?
And how about if everyone else - Z and non-Z proponents - just agree that all of us have different opinions of what is best, we can all find whatever topics we are interested in (as long as they have appropriate key words in their names!) and we can all make up our own minds.
If someone asks in this topic what is easiest, best, shiniest, most cost-effective, then let us assume they are speaking of Store Bought Waxes only. Zaino does not fit in that category, clearly.
OTOH, if somone wants to criticize the Z stuff, or anything related to Zaino, take the criticism to THAT topic, and leave it out of this one completely.
How does that sound, folks?
Pat
Community Leader/Maintenance & Repair Conference
Why not just ignore the post and let other readers make their own decision? It seems that many here want to deny even the possibility that there may be something better than the "old way". How closed-minded is that?
We are all here because we want the best for our cars (at least most of us are). I have found a lot of useful information that was not "right on" the topic. I think some people need to loosen their britches a little.
Unless Edmunds develops an extensive and easy-to-use capability to cross-reference to previous posts, you will always get newcomers asking questions that have been asked and answered before; too few folks are disposed to using the Search function. (Why do you think Americans "demand" quick-start instructions in addition to an extensive manual for products?) Fortunately, there have been those willing to respond to those posts. I don't think it is user/public-friendly or, probably, practical for Hosts to respond to all repeated questions with topic and post numbers.
There is a problem with the way the current two forums exist; each is too narrow for a newcomer. At first glance, a dedicated Zaino topic would seem unfair, but it appears that the numbers and the discussion heat called for the separation that was made. But, why would a newcomer understand what the Zaino topic is about without "polish" in the title, and what explains what "(No Zaino Posts)" means to a newcomer? Perhaps a solution could be a topic aimed at "snagging" newcomers that generally explains the two most popular protectant types, natural and polymer; that the product ranges from the very inexpensive ones available in mass quantites from popular outlets to higher-end products available through specialty stores, mail-order, and Web sites with links to the ongoing edmunds.com topics, perhaps more generically named, discussing each of them.
Again, I could debate my own personal point of view herein up the kazoo with anyone out there. But what we are really talking about comes down to very subjective conclusions. Its a matter of taste. And as such, both side must learn to understand that there is room for all of us here.
But much more important, many of us still have questions about various aspects of car care and would actually like to learn more about the subject. From BOTH a Z and non-Z point of view. I've really learned a lot from this "non-Z" topic. Really. And I'd like to learn more. Given the emotional state of affairs here, however, I can only read and not really contribute. Unfortunately, what I'm reading is becoming more about this debate rather than the content I'm looking for.
In post #409, jetfixr2 wants to know if anyone knows anything about Malco liquid paste wax.
In post #420, silvercoupe wants to know if anyone knows where to find Eagle One Concours tire dressing.
And in post #413, Pocahontas linked an article from Edmunds' editorial features by Scott Meade: Keep Your Car Looking Its Best.
If you can't help out either jetfixr2 or silvercoupe with their questions, why not take a look at that article and share your reaction to it?
Pat
Community Leader/Maintenance & Repair Conference
Vern
Let's leave Zaino out of this forum altogether. You want a "Store Bought Wax" topic - that's what this is.
Let's stay on topic. Thanks.
Pat
Community Leader/Maintenance & Repair Conference
Personally I use Meguiar's Premium Medallion. I park next to a Z user who thinks I use Z. He can't tell, so I have not put in my order for Z. But I do want to know about Z and other products for my car because I want to keep it looking nice. Let's just get back to ONE wax topic to cover all car paint protection products!
anyone tried Malms? (i know it's not store
bought)
...red
Why do you say that the Wax Shop products are loaded with silicone. Just curious--have you done testing/chemical analysis?
Use Meguiars Carnaba. It works good but doesn't last(bead) as long as Nu Finish. Three things I like about the Carnaba:
1. Applies easily. Buffs out nicely. Much less
dust.
2. Odor is not strongly "chemical".
3. No chaulky white hard-to-get-rid-of residue
on edges or black surfaces.
Bretfaz - Thanks for the advice regarding the glaze. I also found your advice about spraying water on a streaked wax job to be very helpful. No more streaks now. I also learned from past mistakes and now apply the wax sparingly instead of a heavy coat.
The shine I got made the effort worth while.
Thanks in advance,
Steve
Thanks in advance,
Steve
Have decided that the foundation of my car care will be the Meguiar's No. 20 Polymer Sealant. I use about 5 other of their products, but in a support role.
I have used the No. 20 on a 1987 Honda Accord and a 2000 Accord purchased last Nov. It is incredible! Goes on fairly easily. But it's best points are durability and resistance to mess. Poor words to describe it, but boy does it clean up easily. I wash it about every 2-3 weeks, and every time the bugs on the front come off with the sponge and wash water. Road tar comes off with the sponge or with the Quick Detailer. Very easy process, no hard rubbing.
The new car is silver, so it doesn't benefit as well as a dark color from the shine, but it looks great. The older car is darker blue, and no one can believe that it has 189,000 miles on it.
Getting to be cooler days now in the fall and time for the full up winter prep. Sure glad that the No 20 has such great durability. It will get me to the Feb thaw before I need to freshen it up. You can tell that I really like it.
Tom
For the tires, a key point is to FIRST clean them with a stiff brush and "Westley's Bleche-White" rubber cleaner, or an equivalent. Get all the factory and road goop off, then treat them. I have been using Turtle Wax's 2001 tire gel, and it is pretty good. It dries hard, so it does not collect more dirt, and has a nice gloss. I only need to re-apply every 3 car washes or so.
Claims:
Rain-x ultra wax "leaves nothing but the shine..."
Durshine "makes any car look new... eliminates water spotting."
Anyone here tried these?
Pocahontas
Edmunds.com/Roving Host
dave
dave
Yesterday my s.o. bought the complete line of Rainex ultra wax, fast wax, and car wash.
He's looking for something that will reduce the water spots on our black maxima.
The Rainex claim is pretty strong; also, if he's not pleased with the product, he can return it to for a full refund at Discount Auto.
Anyway, we put it on his car last night. Went on very easily and the shine was brilliant. If people are interested, I'll keep them posted... Talk to everyone later. ;-)
Pocahontas,
Edmunds.com/Roving Host
One of the ways to keep spotting down is to rinse your car thoroughly after washing. Then, take the pressure nozzle off of your hose and just let the water from the hose "flow" over your finish with no pressure (think of just letting "sheets" of water from the hose go over the car) as a final rinse. This cuts down on the spots as well as making the car easier to dry.
Also our neighborhood is canvassed with large oak trees creating a lot of dust & debris in the water... which is not so pretty on our jet black car.
But today after it rained, we did notice that there were very few water spots (just bearly visible) in the center of the hood. Usually they are everywhere... and large. So we believe the rain-x has made a big difference. I think I'll dab a little more of that rain-x ultra wax in the center of the hood now. ;-)
I'll keep you up to date on how long it lasts. Talk to you later.
Pocahontas,
Edmunds.com/Roving Host
IMHO, there are many very good wax auto wax products on the market, which will satisfy the needs of the majority of car owners.
Meguiars, are excellent products, which they market at, at least 2 levels, "general consumer" and "professional"- the "professional" line is the one most car buffs rec. (available at Pep Boys)
One Grand Blitz, P21S Paste, Pinnacle Souveran, and Collinite Marque D' Elegance among the most rec standard auto waxes. (most of these available thru online vendors, use a search engine to locate...like dogpile.com)
Zaino, Finish First, and Nu-Finish among the most rec polymer auto waxes. (Zaino, available directly from the manufacturer, Finish First from an on-line vendors, and Nu-Finish at Wal-Mart). Polymers are longer lasting than standard auto waxes.
You normally only need to use a "glaze" to remove minor scratches, swirl marks, minor contaminants, etc from the paint PRIOR to waxing. Also, many good products available: Meguiars, 3M Imperial Hand Glaze, P21S Gloss Enhancing Paintwork Cleanser, Zaino, etc. (Meguiars & 3M IHG at Pep Boys, P21S from on-line vendors)
Leather Care: Check out this topic in the Maintenance & Repair forum...I use Lexol leather cleaner + Lexol leather conditioner (available at Pep Boys)...avoid "one-step" products...not supposed to be as effective. I'm sure the Meguiars equivalent is also quite acceptable.
You can also check out Consumer Reports May 2K issue for their review of auto waxes, but they don't test most of the brands mentioned above.
Good Luck!
Vern
Thank you.
A polish usually contains abrasive, which "grinds" away or polishes out scratches, swirl marks, debris, etc. from the paint. (this is where hand application is safer than using an electrical orbital polisher...you could polish off ALL the paint if you are not careful)
A wax contains either natural (carnnuba) or polymer "waxes" to protect the paint.
You can buy a product which contains both, now popularly known as "cleaner-waxes", but one step products are usually a compromise.
My $0.02, I'm sure others can render their interpretation also.
Vern
Forgot to mention, usually the terms "polish" and "glaze" are usually used interchangeably.
Vern
Also thought this was an important point...
Most car buffs would rec only polishing/glazing cars twice a year, since you are removing a "layer" of paint when you perform this procedure. This is the step which gives your paint "the shine". Waxing protects the shine, which you need to do typically every 3 months with a natural wax or every 6-12 months with a polymer wax.
Vern