Did you recently take on (or consider) a loan of 84 months or longer on a car purchase?
A reporter would like to speak with you about your experience; please reach out to PR@Edmunds.com by 7/22 for details.
A reporter would like to speak with you about your experience; please reach out to PR@Edmunds.com by 7/22 for details.
Options
Store Bought Waxes Part II (No Zaino Posts)
This discussion has been closed.
Comments
1.) What is a cleaner wax?
2.) If you were to only purchase two or three products to protect and enhance a newer vehicle's finish, which ones would you choice?
3.) What brand car wash liquid do you prefer?
Thank you, my friend!
Respectfully;
protegextwo
Larry
I am currently trying 2 combos: P21S Gloss Enhancing Paintwork Cleanser + One Grand Blitz Wax vs Malms Polish & Glaze + Malms liquid Carnauba Wax. Will let you know about results...
Automophile...thanx
Bretfraz...nice marketing history lesson + recs
Vern
I used to use a mixture of kerosene and water to wash cars. This got rid of all the bugs, tar and road grime. It also left the "oily" sheen that made the cars look like they were just waxed. Of course, it came right off with the first rain.
I also used to use Simonize paste wax (by hand). This stuff was harsh, but had enough "grit" in it to smooth out the finish.
Used heated (to soften) bees wax on vinyl and leather seats (applied with my bare hands, made them real soft)...water and vinegar on the windows.
All carpets and cloth areas were shampooed with Johnson's Baby Shampoo and a stiff brush. Pledge was used on the wood areas.
Customers didn't know what I used to detail their cars, but they always liked the results as I had many repeat customers.
All of these products were cheap to buy and yielded good results (didn't last long, though). Of course, there were no clear coats back then and the paint was put on much thicker, too. Leather and cloth was of a much higher quality than what is used today.
Wouldn't recommend any of these techniques today, but I sure did a heck of a lot of business back then.
Living in a small college town with many "esoteric" cars running around...most of the cars I did were foreign....Alpha's, Fiats (Spiders, X1/9), BMW 2002s, MGs (Midgets, B's & GTs), Triumphs (Spitfire & TR), 240Zs and the occasional Shelby Mustang (60's variety) or Sting Ray. I had never seen (or heard of) any of these cars before I got to college.
You know...Turtle Wax Bug & Tar remover in a can...kinda milky lookin...works great...kinda smells like a kerosene mixture.
Vern
The info on the zymol is VERY interesting! I thought I purchased PRIMO stuff. LOL! The stuff you can learn here, is very informative.
Michael
The Shelby I detailed was "given" to a student upon his HS graduation. He was a real sob to talk to. The Shelby was about 7-8 years old when he got it, but still...it was a Shelby. I remember it wasn't put together very well (or he just flat out abused it). The manual window lever kept falling off in your hand and it sounded like the engine was going to run right out of the engine bay, 1-2 shift synchronizer was shot, tach worked, not the speedometer....but boy, was it ever fast and I kept it looking good for him.
Wilcox--I've seen those car care "kits" with different combos included at K-Mart, Costco and the like. I think that they put in the "cheapest" products they could find and sell them as a "total car care" package. Kind of an oxymoron.
1. There are really very few "carnauba" waxes. About the maximum amount of carnauba that can be put into a "carnauba wax" is about 25% to 30%. These tend to be relatively expensive ($20 a jar or more.
Most "store-bought" waxes are mixtures of parrafin wax, beeswax, carnauba, polymers, and silicone. Even many of the waxes that contain high amounts of carnauba wax (25% or more) also contain polymer-type substances.
An example would be be Meguair's #26 (Hi-tech Yellow Wax). I have used it on my cars for 12 years. Until about five years ago I thought this was a "carnauba wax"--until I was told by a Meguiars rep that #26 was"mostly polymers--only about 5% carnauba wax"
A lot of people seem to be under the impression that polymer sealants are some kind of new technology--when that really isn't the case.
The dust issue--there is a lot of talk lately that carnauba-based waxes tend to attract dust. I have used Zymol, Blitz, and P21s--all waxes with a high content of carnauba and I have never noticed any "dust problem". On the contrary--as long as it stays dry, my cars never seemed to get dirty at all--as long as I keep them well-waxed. Then again I live in upstate NY-quite a different climate and geography than Arizona.
But sometimes I wonder if the supposed affinity Carnauba waxes have for dust isn't related more to the fact that they don't last as long as polymers--and once the wax is gone the cars tend to get dirtier and harder to clean.
Disadvantages of polymers? It used to be stated that polymers could cause paint cracking or yellowing over time. But I have also used polymer protectants--including Meguiars--and have never noticed any problem.
To me, the main difference between polymer-based and carnauba based is looks. I like the look of the carnauba-based waxes better--I think it is a deeper shine that brings out more of the paint color. I also think that the carnauba-based waxes hide minor scratches and swirls on dark colored cars better.
On the other hand the polymer based waxes do last longer--though in my experience the difference isn't quite as great as many people believe.
Still--for a lot of people the long-lasting protection of the polymers is the number one factor, and that is understandable. Here in the North, they are particularly nice to use in the winter--because without a heated garage some years it can be 4 months before you can wax your car.
If you are happy with the Meguiar's polymer sealant and like the way your car looks--I would stick with it--there really isn't any reason not to. It is a good product, in my experience.
There seems to be something "bad" about silicones and or polymers-are there any studies or evidence other than anectdotes about how it is harmful to paint?
Are silicones and polymers interchangeable in descriptions by manufacturers? Are they the same compound? If not, do they have the same effects-slipperiness and water beading?
Does the grade and percentage of carnuba make a difference in appearance and durability as much as it does in price? I think Consumer Reports would say no.
Finally it seems that the logical thing is to put a carnuba wax coat(for appearance) over a polymer based coat(for durability). Then every 3 months, reapply the wax, every 6 months, reapply both. No wonder we want one-step products.
Zymol's website is www.zymol.com and Zaino Bros' website is www.zainobros.com.
In other words, don't use a product which contains native silicone or silicone oils. But do consider both waxes and polymers which use compounds that include silicone in combination with other elements.
Silicone is used in many paint protectants because of its extreme slickness, ability to repel water, and its reflective properties
The main rap on silicone is that it makes body shop repainting of an automobile difficult, because paint has a difficult time adhering to a silicone-coated metal or plastic body panel (silicone tends to tenaciously bond to, and penetrate paints).
However, there are chemicals which can remove any silicone from body panels, prior to repainting (I believe these are alcohol based solvents--but I'm not sure), so that silicone is not really that much of an issue, except in body shops, where it is important to keep silicone away from areas where painting is done.
I just felt like celebrating...
Let's just calm down, folks, okay?
We DO have a topic to discuss Zaino, and it IS okay for invitations to be issued HERE to go THERE, and we SHOULD keep the Zaino discussions in the Zaino topic.
And we all should remember that it is okay to disagree, but we need to do it civilly; we do not attack other community members for their opinions.
Okey-doke? Let's not get out of hand again. Really.
Pat
Community Leader/Maintenance & Repair Conference
Pocahontas,
Edmunds.com/Roving Host
Thanks,
Protegextwo
I'm not sure which posts were deleted and I have not read them. All I know is that I didn't engage in any funny stuff. What's the problem?
I am nearly positive that silicon is not used in any "car-care" type products. Silicon as an element does not exist on it's own--it exists combined with other elements, in minerals.
The main use for silicon is in semiconductors. The silicon used in semiconductors and transistors is separated by heating minerals that contain silicon at high temperatures.
To be usable as a protectant, silcon atoms would have to be combined with other atoms to form a polymer (Silicone). Silicone polymers are commonly used in "car care" products, as well as lubricants, dielectric grease, waterproofing compounds, and (if I am not mistaken), in synthetic rubber.
Any and all silicone would have the properties vis-a-vis paint I described in my earlier post.
Anyone remember the old Rod Stewart and the Faces song, "Silicone Grown"? That's one other use for silicone.
Polymers tend to last longer and vary in price:
Nu-Finish, Meguairs Medallion, Meguiars #20, Klasse, Zaino, Finish First, and a number of others are all polymer-based protectants and any of them will probably get you through a PA winter.
I have read about their 3 step regime:
One Grand Special Touch
One Grand Omega Glaze
One Grand Blitz Wax
Respectfully;
Larry
;-0
Larry
The difference is not that much though. In fact, when my Collinite runs out I may finish up my supply of Blitz before going back.
Any recommendations for a quality non silicone leather CONDITIONER that leaves the leather shiny? I've used the Lexus and Lexol brands that work oK, but I'm looking for more shine if it is available.
I also use Lexol leather cleaner and conditioner, but, also have some Auto Glym Leather Care Cream...which is supposed to be the product Rolls Royce currently recs (previously was Connolly Hide Food). Have not tried it yet, but hey, if its good enough for RR, its good enough for my near-luxury rice-mobile (both products available from Classic Motoring Accessories, LTD; they are also the only place I have ever seen that carries a leather brush)
Hope this helps...you should also check out the leather care forum...
Vern
Collinite seems to be easier to get off and the shine appears to be a little "deeper" to me.
I guess a good test would be to do something side-by-side for comparison. Anyway, I think they are both great products and likely my choice is more personal preference than anything else.
Last weekend I did a comparison of clay verses the P21 cleaner polish. The clay definitely gave me a smoother/cleaner finish. And this was on a car that has been pretty well maintained and garaged.
Yes, the collinite is "Marque d elegance".
Thanks again for the comments on the leather.
Ron
One question...I currently use the Meguiars Mirror Glaze before applying the Collonite, is there anything better?
Thanks,
Kevin
Thanks for you input on Collinite wax (Marque d elegance I assume?).
I would say try, 3M Imperial Hand Glaze...it seems to be the most recommended glaze I have seen...also is readily available at Pep Boys.
Vern
Thanks
1) Turtle wax 2001 interior treatment. This is a spray for plastic, vynyl, wood, rubber, etc. It was cheap ( $5 for a gallon on sale at autozone ) and works really well--a subtle shine that lasts a long time
2) Microfiber towels.. These were a little expensive but they work *great* for drying. They are small but soak up a ton of water and are really absorbant, and they seem to trap dirt really well. I think $12 for a pack of 7-8 at costco.
I have some touchup paint for my car ( a 328i ) that is paint and clearcoat--2 bottles. I mostly want to fix some scratches that go through the paint. I did this on my old car and it looked worse than the scratches--it looked globbed on. Any tips?
dave
Check out the "How-To Articles" on www.carcareonline.com
Very informative articles, the one on paint chip repair I think is closest to what your looking for, but, beware, its pretty involved...
Good Luck,
Vern
Larry
I use Pinnacle Souveran carnuba wax on my new black Eldorado. The shine is the greatest. However a day or two after waxing or just washing, the car surface hazes over. A call to the distributor didn't help.
According to Carcareonline, the problem is that I have a "Garage Queen". A garage queen is a vehicle that is driven only on weekends. Being garaged all week long plus having a high humidity environment will result is hazing and clouding. This happens because the car wax can't dry out and harden properly in the humid shade. Rather than wax and garage the car, I must park the car out in the sun for a day or more after waxing.
I've never used Pinnacle, but I have used similar products and never had a hazing problem. Then again, the climate where I live is as different from Hawaii as you can get
HotRod20:
Parking out in the sun is one solution. Another possible solution is to spray with a "quick detailer" after you get done waxing.
Another thing to think about is maybe using less of the product--with p21s wax, (which I believe is pretty similar to Pinnacle) I use very little product--I will barely scrape the jar two or three times to do half of a large body panel.
A lot of the concerns I see about hazing and clouding seem to involve using too much of the product--including complaints I have seen and heard about clouding with the "unmentionable" product.
either."
I highly doubt that but the shine that he gets probably won't last very long.
Where are some posts regarding clouding with the "unmentionable" product? I have never seen any. Closest I could come were posts about streak marks because of applying the product too thick and/or not waiting enough time to let it dry.
Your analogy is quite poor. If you are so against chemical and preservatives you should not be driving a car. Gasoline, oils, anti-freeze etc. all full of preservatives and chemicals. The paint on your vehicle is highly likely made from acrylics so it would not make any more sense to care for it using a product that is all "natural" versus a man-made product.
To get back to the original poster of the Hazing problem--He stated that the hazing showed up "2 days later" or "after it was washed." I never heard of that happening with the "unmentionable" product but if you can provide some links or forum names with post numbers please do.
Post 817 which I responded to also makes no mention whatsoever of hazing. Smearing is not hazing.
Post 819 also talks about smearing not hazing.
Try again....The posts you mention are all about smearing caused by users who did not wait long enough to remove it and/or applied too much.
Good ol' Joebob did his research and can not find any posts mentioning hazing appearing 1 to 2 days later. And you won't find any because none exist.
Try some more dicing and slicing with some solid proof. But these forums will be completely revamped tomorrow anyway. Oh well.
Therefore the topics are in place to do just that.
Yet you keep up the arguments in both places.
Is this the structure you want, or not? Do you want another "Waxes and Polishes" topic where everything can be discussed in one place? (Of course the Participant Agreement will be strictly enforced and posts attacking other members will in no way be tolerated.)
The present separation seems of no use whatsoever. In fact, I think it causes more problems than it is worth, promoting arguments about what can be said in which topic and causing confusion to community members who have no idea what Zaino is.
I do not know whether the topics can or will be restructured before we migrate to the new site, but what do you all think? Personally, the whole separation concept seems silly to me, as evidenced by the recent postings here and in the Zaino topic.
Pat
Community Leader/Maintenance & Repair Conference
I think we'll remain on WE a while longer while the issues that arose unexpectedly at the new site are addressed and solved (we hope!).
Pat
Community Leader/Maintenance & Repair Conference