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Store Bought Waxes Part II (No Zaino Posts)
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If you go to the meguiars website, punch in some info in their car care prescription, it will spit out what Meguiars recs:
www.meguiars.com/CarRx.cfm
IMHO, I don't think you probably need to use clay, a swirl removing polish, or Dawn at this point, I would jus use Meguiar's professional series car wash and paste wax to start. I'm sure others on this site can also offer some good recs.
Vern
If you want to remove wax the first time, use Meguiars Medallion Premium Paint Cleaner.
He probably has never tried clay then. Clay removed the rail dust and embedded brake dust on my vehicle quite well. Requires some effort in some places but well worth the results.
And notice the juxtoposition between the terms "clay compounding" and "wet sanding".
Maybe the clay just sheared off the very tiny parts of the rail dust and embedded brake dust that were protruding above the paint on your car.
I have used clay to remove paint overspray (the blue, so-called "non-abrasive" Clay Magic) and I believe that it was a very fine shearing action--not "stickiness" as some say, that removed the overspray.
Let's think about this: If clay was "sticky" enough to remove auto paint overspray and embedded metal filings, than I should probably just throw away my claw hammers and prybars, and use paint-cleaning clay to remove nails from plywood as well.
I ended up using the Prep to polish chrome in my bathroom and protect shower tiles. I used the 3 products on other cars with poor results. I haven't used the polish except for an occasional coat on the front of my car before a long road trip; the slick finish keeps bug residue to a minimum. After the post-trip wash the slickness is gone so in the long run it's a waste of product but I guess I'll try to use it up over the next few years. Or I'll toss it. No big deal.
1. Clay does not work on plywood
2. Most nails are much bigger than the
millimeter(s) size specks of rail dust or brake dust that gets embedded.
3. The clay is very sticky...Just try it without lube. If the clay were shearing off the specks than I would still see the remains of the specks. My vehicle has a white clearcoat finish.
How do you come up with these leaps from pulling specks of metal in paint to pulling out nails in plywood? It just makes absolutely no sense to compare the two.
I read the article. Just because someone has credentials does not make everything they say right. There are many different opinions on the myriad of automotive detailing products around.
jus bought some 100% cotton Cannon Fieldcrest towels from Sams...they also stock the Poly-blend Cannon Fieldcrest towels...so look at the tag carefully...
Vern
"1. Clay does not work on plywood"
Thanks for the info.
"2. Most nails are much bigger than the
millimeter(s) size specks of rail dust or brakedust that gets embedded."
Thanks again.
"3. The clay is very sticky...Just try it without
lube. If the clay were shearing off the specks
than I would still see the remains of the specks.
My vehicle has a white clearcoat finish."
Sorry, but I have seen and heard too many references comparing clay compounding to wet sanding, often by people with the credentials that you scoff at, to believe that it is simply "stickiness" pulling out metal slivers that have fused into paint.
I mean, really, what could a paint repair expert at one of the world's largest automakers (who works with and studies paint repairs everyday for years, has access to sophisticated testing equipment, etc.), possibly know about this subject? He's probably some sort of silly "engineer" or something....
What is the composition of paint cleaning clay, anyway? It's easy to say..well, it's clay. But.....
The only company I have seen list the makeup of this product is Zymol. The clay they sell contains quartz, according to their website. And obviously quartz is an abrasive.
You say that you no longer see specks in your white finish proving that it is only adhesive-type action that is cleaning the paint.
What I suspect really happens is the the shearing action of the clay does pull out a very small amount of the filings embedded in the paint, just by the physical force of the action.
What's left is far enough below the surface that you can't see it. But that doesn't mean it's not there--which is why the guy from Ford says the only way to "completely remove iron is with an alkaline, acid-neutralizing wash. Clay compounding or wet sanding will not remove iron."
But hey--believe what you want.
I'll let you know how it turns out, again, thanks for the help. That is why Edmunds is so great! Plenty of helpful people.
Michael
Thanks in advance!
Touch up paint is a risky proposition. I've heard people that have used the "langka" products, but with mixed results. In addition, the odds of the "touch up" paint perfectly matching the paint on your finish, is rarely acheiveable.
Short of a "re-paint" where they can blend the colors, you may make the scratches look worse rather than better by trying touch-up paint.
Actually, I incorrectly posted that Odd-Lot had AutoFOM. The store is Odd-Job Trading, Not Odd-Lot.
Also, what is the "fisheye" efffect in the carwash.com article? For my recently repainted fender and door, the autobodyshop said to wait 3 weeks before waxing. Sounds short according to the article.
I have seen a recommendation for 3M Imperial Hand Glaze that says it can be used for the first 30 days after refinishing. And I would like to put some kind of protection with all the rain we've had lately.
Larry
Last Sunday I used Meguiars Show Car Glaze and then waxed with Meguiar's Premi
This is a term used to describe paint that has a very uneven appearance--it looks like numerous "pinholes" in the surface. I guess you could describe it as a condition caused by an uneven adherence of spray paint to a body panel. It is caused by painting a contaminated surface that hasn't been prepped right or even by a contaminated painting environment.
Silicone can particularly be a culprit in this way, because it very easily penetrates paint and tends to bond very well to body panels. However, there are chemicals which can remove any
silicone from body panels, prior to repainting.
Clay:
Probably the most I have clayed any one section of a car's body is only two times (this is in about a years time). I haven't noticed any difference in paint thickness--but then again if the clay is removing any paint at all--it would be far, far too little for me to notice--even it it were a relatively large amount of paint.
I am told and have read that clay either removes a.) no paint, or b.) very little. Depends who you ask. To me it seem like the purpose of the lubricant is to provide a very thin layer of protection and lubrication--just enough to remove any contamination (high spots) without much touching the paint (provided enough lubrication is used--along with very little pressure). I am comfortable using it infrequently to remove various contaminants. I am not comfortable using it as a general paint cleaner, but others disagree.
Waxing after repainting:
Seems as though there are many different answers to this question, as well. In the article you referred to the Ford guy says:
"Waxes and sealants can be applied after refinish repairs, but detailers should wait 60 days.
Which would seem to be a little contradictory--and I have heard other answers as well.
I guess if it was me I would tend to play it a little conservative and wait a longer amount of time--then again your bodyshop should be familiar with their own paint--so it's tough to say.
One thing--3M Imperial Hand Glaze will NOT provide any real paint protection. IHG is a "pure" polish (the label says "Stoddard Slovents", which is a mineral spirit based cleaner, and mineral oils). It is often used as a "finish polish" by professional painters and detailers after machine buffing, but it provides no protection.
On clays: I guess paint must have pretty large pores for the industrial fallout to stick IN to paint like it is diagrammed...Anyway to practice, I used clay on the loaner from the autobodyshop-someone had driven in a puddle of green paint, it had splashed on the rocker panel and would not wash off. It worked very well, left the white paint very smooth, even though I started with the wrong bottle-Vinylex for a lubricant. I could see the green specks in the clay, no white even though the loaner was 7 yrs old. Also went much faster with the supplied (Mothers) lubricant.
Hotrod20: Checked one small Redline store and wasn't too impressed with the array, however should you need any of the 3M products the Napa stores carries them. Please let us know how long the Meguiar's stuff holds up in our Hawaiian climate.
Michael
P.S. Also, is AutoFom safe for clearcoats?
That's what the guy on the Durashine infomercial says too. He is right. It is harmful to have sun heating water beads on paint.
No matter what product you use(wax or polish), if your car dries out in the sun after a rain, especially dark colors because they heat up faster in the sun, the water beads that are burned off and evaporate will leave behind some kind of environmental impurities. How long you leave these on your car without either washing or using a quick detailer product will be a major factor in determining whether they become very hard to remove or even become permanently etched in the paint.
Maybe if Durashine worked as advertised it would be a good product. I saw little or no gloss and no protection. Even worse, the bottle directions even state that you may need to hand dry areas but they "never tell you that in the infomercial".
Bret gave you some very good recs, I will post what I am using and what I have heard is good.
1)Currently trying P21S Paintwork Cleanser + One Grand Blitz Wax- I am pretty satisfied with the results, easy to apply, leaves a great shine. (P21S Carnauba Paste Wax also rated high)
2)Malm's Formula 10 Polish/Glaze + Malm's Carnauba Wax- Waiting to try this combo, one edmund's poster claimed this was better than Zaino.
3)Collinite Marque d' Elegance Wax- Have heard that this is a very good product.
4)Finish First & Klasse- Have heard that these are a couple of good polymer products.
Which is better? They probably are all very good products...which will make most people pretty happy with the results...surely better than any mass market product like Kit or Turtle Wax.
Good Luck,
Vern
I believe you are referring to post # 10 which was followed by post # 20 in this forum. That poster retracted his statement that the combo was better considering the effort required by Malm's.
If I am wrong and you are referring to another post about Malm's please provide the post number.
Yes, #10 was the post I remembered, but I never saw response #20 until you mentioned it...so guess I will jus have to say Malms is one of the premium wax products available.
Vern
Thank you for your suggestions of the best wax. I am planning on trying the Malm's sample Carnauba Wax as well as their glaze. Once again, thank you!
Michael
I recently received a part that goes in place of my front license plate, and prior to putting on the car I wanted to use the Step 3 wax to protect it. Well, when I went to wipe off the wax, using these towels, I left a sh*t load of scratches behind. I could not believe what the towel did to the finish, even with the thin layer of wax! I looked a bit closer at the package, and it says "made in Pakistan". I recall reading in here that only 100% cotton made in the USA should be used because of our quality standards...well I guess there may be some truth to that. Please don't make the same mistake I did. If anyone has any good comments to make about these towels, I'm willing to listen...or if anyone recommends anything to replace them...
Also, can a chamois be washed in a washing machine? Mine is getting a bit dirty, and I don't want that ruining my finish. I guess my question is, what is the best way to clean a chamois?
Does anyone have an experience with the new clay from Meguiar's? I like their products, and I would like to continue to use them if I can.
It's usually recommended to rinse a chamois after every use--if it gets dirty probably the best thing to do is hand wash it in some soapy water like a sweater.
Whatever you do, don't put it in a clothes dryer.
If you are a fanatic--probably the best way to keep a chamois clean is to keep it away from the areas that might not have gotten 100% clean when you washed the car--air dams, wheels, door jambs, inside trunk lids. (probably not the answer you were looking for.)
Just use a separate towel for those areas--also you can pretty much just let those areas air dry--especially if you aren't planning to wax the car afterward.
In the harsh winter where I live I never use a chamois--just towels--because it is hard to get the car 100% clean in those conditions. Towels are a bit safer.
IIRC, Griots Garage use to sell some kind of Chamois cleaner/conditioner in their catalog--might be almost as cheap just to buy a new chamois, though.
Towels:
You are not the first person to have a problem with towels. I'm not sure that even a "100% cotton, Made in the USA" label is a surefire guarantee that towels don't have some polyester blended in.
http://www.carcareonline.com./wash_car.html
Also the stitching in most towels is polyester, which some people claim can also cause scratches.
Again--if you are a fanatic--I ended up buying Fieldcrest Towels at an outlet store near me--then cut off the embroidery and stitching. Makes a unbelievable mess in the dryer because of the fraying and tangling--but I have had my current set for more than two years and they still work well. They are definitely a little smaller than what I started with, though!
Kind of expensive and maybe a little crazy--depends on how far you are willing to go. You will get quite a look from your wife or girlfriend when she sees you buying premium towels--for your car--and then start cutting them up!
Also with towels--it is a good idea to wash them once or twice before you use them. Silicone "sizing" is used in new towels to make them fluffy looking--supposedly this is also a "scratch hazard".
Now I use The Absorber. No, it doesn't work quite as well as tanned deer skin, but it can be machine washed, its easy to store in its little tube, and comes in wacky colors. Also, at $12 each, if its runied my bank account doesn't suffer. I have two Absorbers; yellow and purple. I use the yellow one on normal sunny days. The purple one is used when I'm in a weird mood or when its cloudy. I'm hoping I get a green one for X-Mas.
http://fieldcrest.com/servlet/Product.GetProds?catName=Bath
Here are the cheap priced towels.
Anyway, thanks again!
Brenda
Brenda
My suggestion is to ask for referrals from friends, neighbors, co-workers, etc. Just like you'd ask for a referral for a plumber or landscaper. Usually the best detailers are found word-of-mouth, like any service provider.
FWIW, a company car was recently detailed by a local operator for $150. They were found thru the phone book. I was disappointed by the attention to "detail". The basics were done but there was plenty of leftover wax and some of the hard to get parts like the lower air dam were not polished at all. I rated it a 5 out 10 for quality. Yes, the car was clean and waxed but not detailed.
When I wax, I notice two problems keep cropping up:
1. Build up around plastic parts and logos.
2. Patchy look after a wax job.
In the first situation, I guess I have to be careful applying around plastic trims. How do you folks avoid getting wax over trim and unwanted wax build up? The stuff is a pain to remove. I eventually remove it using Mother's Back to Black.
I am not sure what's causing the second problem. Too thick of a coat? Uneven application? I try buffing out the patches, but it just doesn't work.
Worse yet, I recently purchased a black car, which means everything shows (black isn't my color of choice, but color is further down my list of priority when I buy a used car).
On another note, what's the most durable product out there? So far, I have had my best luck with NuFinish, but even that gives out after a couple of months. I recently notice a product call Prolong Paint Sealant and claims to last longer than anything else on the market. At $20, this seems extremely expensive. I also recall the name Prolong being attached to some lawsuit involving engine additives.
Paul
Wonder if crunchy scrubs better? ;-)
Pat
Community Leader/Maintenance & Repair Conference
The stuff on the sideguard in front of the front door-that's what you mean? Now it's nice and black again. Tire dressing makes it shiny, although also makes it a dust magnet.
Around the emblems, etc i am just careful, and i fish out extra wax with a corner of the towel. I guess a q-tip would be better.
Pat: gotta try the crunchy.
dave
Pat
Community Leader/Maintenance & Repair Conference