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Store Bought Waxes Part II (No Zaino Posts)
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Here's what I do:
1. Inspect trim and edges focusing on things like side molding, body kits, air dams, roof racks, door handles, etc. If it has a coarse texture (run your fingernails on it) then cover ir with masking tape. You'll definitely want to mask off trim if you're using a buffer like I do. Textured plastic can be anything on the car's exterior and if you get wax in these things, you'll never get it out. I got wax in the roof rack and door handles of my mom's Cherokee and it took me years(!) to get it out. Lesson: Don't get wax all over the trim.
2. Wax residue in body kits, air dams, spoilers, marker lights, et al is inevitable. I use a cut down paint brush to remove. Buy a 1" high-quality paint brush, use some very sharp scissors and cut down the bristles to 1" or so. It'll be hard to do as paint bristles don't want to be cut. But you will have the perfect little tool for brushing wax out of tight spots.
3. Buy you some 3M wax and grease remover and use sparingly. That and the brush can be worked into the textured plastic to remove residue.
Hope this helps. And, no, I've never used peanut butter. IMO, it's making another mess.
http://www.zymol.com/vintage2.htm
I'd really like to see a lot of these finishes compared in a blind test.
They say the container is refillable for life, i suppose that's good, but you could buy a nice supply of good wax off the interest of $1402 forever.
dave
That must be one heckuva container. Before I would spend $1400 on a can of wax, it would have to:
1. Require the use of welders goggles to view the car after it was done.
2. Last 3 and a half years between applications
3. Not just bead water, but actaully REPEL water before it hits the car.
4. Ditto for snow, slush and mud
5. Apply itself. Of course anyone who can pay that much for a wax most likely has somebody else to do the phsical work
I think bretfaz is a professional detailer, so I'll ask him, is it worth the $1,400? Or, are they counting on detailers to buy it and recover the initial costs by passing a portion of the charges along to their clients?
Anyway, I can't imagine a pro detailer spending $1400 on a car wax. The ROI would never be beneficial. Besides, most people who utilize a pro detailer wouldn't be able to tell the difference. I think the person who buys Vintage is more like a Pebble Beach participant who has spent untold $$ to win their class or Best of Show. Competition at that level is so intense, the quality of a polish can easily be the deciding factor. A $25,000 paint job on a $750,000 Ferrari is justification enough for a $1400 polish.
I was suprised to read the comment about Vintage lasting 3 months. Most products I've used like that have only lasted hours, days at best, before the gloss starts to wear off. I've never used Vintage so I can't say for sure, but I have used other Zymol products and the results are terrific as long as the correct techniques are used.
Kit Wax - I swear the wind blows this stuff off of your car. It just doesn't last.
Turtle Wax - Great shine and easy to use, but again, it doesn't last.
Mcguires Gold - Very easy to use, good shine, lasts longer than Kit wax or Turtle wax, but not much longer. At $20 a bottle, it's a bit too expensive for it's mediocre performance.
Eagle 1 liquid Carnuaba cleaner and Carnuaba paste - Last year I tried something a little different. First I used the Carnuaba cleaner liquid, then I applied the Carnuaba paste. Both are easy to use and very inexpensive. The shine was increadable and longer lasting than the others.
Zaino - fairly easy to use, just as good of shine as the Eagle 1 products produced, but longer lasting. So far this has lasted longer than any of the other products I've tried. A bit more expensive than Eagle one, but worth it because it lasts longer.
My $.02
That might make a difference in your evaluation.
I have used it and like it, but notice that it it gets applied heavier than it should, one needs a lot of clean polishing terry cloth towels to buff it off.
Note that I do not find it hard to buff off, with a clean towel, but if you do not turn your towel often, and change towels when no clean sides are left, it "gums up" your towel.
I have a brand new 2001 GMC Sierra truck, and want to keep it looking new and beautiful AND Protected.
So far, I've used Gold Class, and Finish 2001, and I liked how easy 2001 buffed off, but I am thinking that for long term care, I think I will trust Meguiars. Not that Turtle Wax is bad, but an "all in one" cleaner-polish-wax might not be good for my brand new paint.
Actually, I was considering just using #20. My truck has a nice shine, and even though Meguiars Gold Class advertises, "the most reflective car wax in Meguiars long history", it shines pretty nicely when it is just clean.
Information I am looking for is:
How long does it last?
How easy is it to remove?
Thanks,
WORST WAX: Turtle Wax Emerald Series Paste Wax, Armor All Detailers Advantage Wax, Kit Carnauba Wax
BEST WAX: Zaino (2 Step Process), Malm's Carnauba Wax, Griot's Garage Best of Show Wax, Pinnacle Souverän Wax, Zymol Creme/Carbon Wax
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As you can see, the worst waxes are under $5, and the best waxes range from $20-70.
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The wax test I performed can also be unfair, since the grade is based on both toughness AND SHINE. Their has been no polish to further boost the shine during this test. Furthermore, I have experienced extraordinary results with a Meguiar's combo (clay, medium-cut cleaner, swirl remover, show-car glaze, yellow wax, Medallion's protectant,) but not just with their waxes.
Surface preparation before waxing becomes much more important to squeeze out the last little bit of shine and gloss. Claying can really make a difference, but if your car is not in excellent shape to begin with, it may require a more extensive surface prep. As mike_542 has found, I have also found that Meguier's Professional surface preparation products to be excellent. The swirl remover and show-car glaze in particular applied with an orbital buffer can make a huge difference in the look of the finish. And that in turn can really change the way the car looks after waxing.
I have also found that Meguier's Gold to be a very nice wax, but have to admit that I'm now part of the evil Z-conspiracy for final finish products, so I'll say no more about that here!
One Grand's Blitz wax is fantastic and their Omega Glaze is on the same level as 3M Imperial Hand Glaze as the best product of its kind. I can't imagine going wrong with any of their products.
One Grand is a "west coast" company like Meguiars, Mothers, Eagle One, Wax Shoppe, and a few others. Malms, Liquid Glass, Zaino, Finish First are "east coast" companies. Being a former detailer from So Cal, I have very little experience with "east coast" products. I'm sure there are others who can speak intelligently on the history of Malms and others.
Also, do you know what Nu Finish is made by? Those one-a-year products seem interesting, too but probably don't shine.
Mike_542...I think it was the May 2000 issue.
Do you mean made of or who makes NuFinish?
Like Vivona I found the water beading (if that is a sign of protection) last so long you'll find that you hardly use it. For example my Corolla was 7+ years, I waxed it at most 9 times, that is @ once a year and twice the month I sold it. Now I am not saying the paint was showroom new when I sold it, but it certainly did not show any signs of oxidation or wear bad enough so the next owner would need to repaint it.
On the other hand, I was not as fanatical then as I am with my new car, and I also know it did not have that rich deep wet look possible with the expensive and or multistep roducts.
-protegextwo
Does anyone have recommendations for wash/polish/wax manufacturers and techniques which will maximize and retain the finish on the Miata. That is to say, are any products better suited for the Mazda paints?
Thanks!!!
http://www.miataforum.com/cgi-bin/Ultimate.cgi
There is a Car Care products forum where you can look through the messages
I also bought their clay product, but I was surprised to read in their catalog "This is the one product I use each and every time before I wax my car". I can't understand their why this should be necessary.
If I have posted this in the wrong thread, please let me know. Thanks, Mac
If you live in Michigan, go to Henderson Glass and buy their glass cleaner. It's world class. The rest of have to use ClearVue or Eagle One 20/20.
Stand by a car so that you can see the sun reflecting off the paint. You will probably see fine lines, kind of like spider webs, around that glare from the sun. Now think of how you move your applicators, cloths, towels and whatall over the surface of the paint. You will realize that the lines come from the motion used in washing, drying, applying protectant, wiping it off, and buffing. You can minimize/eliminate this by using high-quality white, 100% cotton towels, made in the USA to dust, wash, dry, apply protectant, wipe off the dried protectant, and buff your vehicle. These are bath store/department towels, not auto/hardware shop towels. Use white so you don't transfer any color dye to the paint. You should pre-wash the towels with liquid soap without bleaches or fabric softeners, and rinse them twice to minimize lint in their initial use; maintain them the same way. Towels are labeled as to the material in the backing and in the loops; both should be cotton. Despite this labeling, there may still be blend threads that can scratch the paint in the hem of the towel or in any patterns stiched into the fabric. I fold these areas to the inside of the towel as I use it; others advocate trimming the edges of the towels off after their initial washing; presumably to not have to take the time to fold the towels. This can cause the towel to disintegrate fairly quickly and clog up your washing machine. Made in the USA insures that the cotton is not blended with something else. Wash with a towel by wrapping it around a sponge. Dust and dry with a towel by dragging, NOT WIPING, it across the surface; this allows dust and grit to be absorbed by the loops rather than pressing them against the paint; grab the edges/corners of the towel and drape it across the surface and just pull the towel, letting its own weight and/or gravity press the material against the surface. Dab, do not wipe, any residual water. I believe such towels to be superior to t-shirts, which can be blends, rather than 100% cotton, or cloth diapers; either of these would tend to keep hard-to-see dust and grit against the paint surface rather that absorb it into the loops.
Next is the product you use, but there's plenty of that information in these forums.
Good luck.
Also remember that carnuba wax also requires solvents or pet. distillates to "dissolve" it into paste or liquid, no matter which one you buy.
Thanks!
Yes, the common wisdom is: that if a towel has a deep nap, any dirt on the surface of the car--that either was not washed off, or was taken off by the polish--will be less likely to scratch, because it will become embedded in the nap.
To my mind the protection the nap provides is pretty minimal, even if you use light pressure--so I think maybe a little too much is made of this issue by fanatics (such as myself).
Also, one thing that is never mentioned--but I have noticed this myself--once a towel with a deep nap to it becomes dirty, any particulates are more difficult to clean out (they tend to get tangled in the nap) than with a thinner nap--when it comes time to wash the towels. So both have their advantages, and disadvantages.
So IMHO, if you have the "thinner nap towels" they should be fine, as long as they are 100% cotton. And getting the car 100% clean before any waxing or polishing is the most important thing of all.
One other thing--it's not a bad idea, when you are waxing or polishing--to shake out your cloth occasionally, in case any dirt has gotten in there. It helps a little. Sometimes it's tough to remember, though, especially if you are in a hurry.
My cars are both white, which is a factor for true wax afficiandos, as I understand it. I have some swirl marks on one car where the dealer washed it without asking me..thanks, guys.... on the other, I've always used the 'straight line, no circles' washing and waxing theory and it seems to work.
For whatever it's worth:
Zymol- I received a Zymol kit as a prize in an auto club meeting; I found that it gave a very nice finish but doing the Zymol drill (as with any of the high end finish kits) must be a labor of love. If you owned a car you thought was ugly, you'd never Zymol it. It looked good but didn't last particularly long. I also purchased the soft Zymol available in Walmart last year, after it did so well in Consumer's Reports. A nice finish with less work than the 'fancy' Zymol....but not quite as nice and glossy.
Meguiar's Gold Class - As others have posted, I found that it looks very good immediately after application but doesn't seem to last very long at all. I also noticed that it seems subject to a sort of hazy,waxy look if you don't put it on in thinly , which I guess may be why it doesn't last too long.
Nu-Finish - It's been some years since I tried it, but my impression was that it put a very nice gloss over whatever you put it on: an apple an orange, a brick... but somehow I didn't care for it. I had a red car at the time, and was begining to be concerned about (future)oxidation of the color so perhaps I was asking it to perform a function it couldn't perform (clear coats don't keep reds from fading, but prevent you from removing the faded red paint). I stopped using it and went back to waxes. Very glossy but not the same gloss as a wax finish, if that makes sense.
Klasse All in One- This is a German Polymer product that I purchased on sale @ a Brookstone store. I don't believe that I've seen it mentioned here. Apparently it was fairly expensive at retail - $15 - $20 ? but I didn't pay that for it. It came with an "I'm wonderful stuff & how to use me" brochure. I haven't been able to find out much about it by word of mouth from other users. I put it on about 3 months ago (before the cold weather) and it seems to be beading nicely still on both cars. I found that it had a nicer shine to it than the Meguiar's gold (which was still pretty fresh) that it was replacing. I continues to look good, although I'm less obsessive when the weather is in the 20's and 30's. I also -perceive- that dirt doesn't seem to stick to the finish as much as with the waxes. Illusion? Here in Dallas, we have well over 90 days a year over 100 degrees which I think is a factor in my current preference for this polymer finish over wax... I read earlier that the high temps may be hard on waxes.. makes sense to me.
Black Again - From my car dealer, for black trim. Goes on white and turns black with exposure to sunlight. Nice and glossy enough -makes black trim look new, but expensive and won't really really cover the pesky places where car wax got on the black trim. Now days I do the masking tape thing when I wax the car.
I tried peanut oil to remove wax on black trim with mixed results. I don't think it -removes- the wax, just keeps it wet so that you don't see the white. I used a wax remover carefully and a toothbrush with somewhat better results.
My latest forey into black trim is Esquire black liqud shoe wax. It looks good and covers the white wax (or perhaps disolves it?). Comes in a little bottle with an applicator. It's black (uh, right) and it stays that way. Tried it on a black metal panel but don't care for the results there. Does well on plastics though.
Anyhow, my 79¢ worth of comments.
I'd appreciate any feedback on Klasse, if anyone has any long term experience with it. So far I like it.
One thing I am skeptical about is their claim that there are no abrasives because it also claims to work on severely oxidized surfaces. It says it does this with chemicals...maybe...but how do these chemical cleaners determine which paint is oxidized and which is not?
To Lokki: Does Klasse help remove or hide swirl marks/small scratches?
link to Klasse info: http://customacrylic.com/polishes/klasse.htm
I used to use Klasse. It's a real good product, the best of it's kind IMHO. "Converted" to Carnauba-type products a couple of years ago, but I sorta wish I had used some of the Klasse I still have on my cars, before this rather nasty winter hit early, up here in the Great White North. Would've saved me some work and messing around. So much for my weather forecasting skills.
The Klasse products last about 4-5 months on your paint, maybe longer. The manufacturer says even longer, like 9 months. I wonder about that, but still...4,5,6 months....pretty good.
There are two products: The one you have, Klasse All-in-One, and a second product Klasse Sealant Glaze. Either product can be used separately, or both can be used together.
"All-in-one" contains (I believe) chemical cleaners. Sealant Glaze contains no cleaners. If you are concerned about thinning out paint by using cleaners it may be that the Sealant Glaze is the one to have--although I would expect it would take many years of polishing to remove an appreciable amount of clearcoat. Especially if you only use it tw0 or three times a year.
The cleaners in All-in-one may slightly abrade the surface, and thus very slightly reduce swirls--but I believe it is more likely that it mainly just covers them, like many products out there.
The Sealant Glaze definitely *just* covers swirls, as it contains no cleaners or abrasives.
Sealant Glaze can be layered, similar to Zaino, or Finish First..although I've never done it.
You can find out more info about Klasse at the Autopia Message Board, which I believe is still at www.Autopia.com. There are a lot of Klasse users there, and it is a good source of info on the product, such as usage tips.
However-- be forewarned--Autopia also sells the Klasse products, so for any advice you get on their board--a grain of salt is appropriate!
Another good and perhaps, more objective source of info, is the Audiworld board. Do a forum search for Klasse (or any other product). (Searching for Klasse will probably give you a few performance muffler posts IIRC, regarding products made by an unrelated company, but there will also be posts regarding the paint protectant)
Black Again:
Two "Black Again"(s): The "new" Black Again and the "old" Black Again. The "old" Black Again was made by Rhino Industries, who went out of business a year or two ago. I am down to my last half-bottle, and I have read that the "new" Black Again (now produced by a different company) is different (shinier, contains silicone, may be a different formula in other ways...).
Someone correct me if I am wrong, but I believe that liquid shoe polish temporarily "dyes" objects it is used on. An old trick for faded automotive black vinyl, and one that I have heard works pretty well.
I thank everyone for the information; I probably had about 2 more 'waxes' in the bottle I'd guess before I have to buy something else. I haven't decided whether or not I'll buy more Klasse if I have to pay full retail for it.
It does seem to be lasting well so far, but then both my cars are garaged both at home and at work, so that helps.
My cat has put light scratches on my '00 Eclipse hood. I'm curious what you would recommend as an inexpensive fix, less than $15 say. Zainobros, fairly spendy and I'm not familiar with Zymol, is it a wax? They sell GS27 here in the sticks, $9.00, anyone used it before to rid the paint of abrasions? Any advice?
Thanks, Jack
Their GS27 was made in France so I don't know the differences. Check out Practical Classics, Jan '01 ish (I think).
Your other option at this point is touch-up/repair. If the scratches are deep, I guess you could say it is the preferred option.
You could do this yourself with a bottle of touch-up paint that matches your car's paint. Or you could try to find a detailer who does airbrush-type repairs.
If you decide to polish you could use 3M Perfect-It Foam Polishing Pad Glaze--it is made for hand-use, and is mildly abrasive. It is available at Pep Boys and NAPA stores, among other outlets.
Don't use a polish that says it is for machine use only, unless you are planning on using a rotary buffer (not advisable unless you have experience with one).
If you decide to try to polish out the scratches, use light pressure and take your time. Don't try more than one or two applications of the product--again, remember the rule of thumb--if the scratch can be felt with your fingernail--it is too deep to be polished completely out.
I've never used GS27--I have heard both good and bad things about it. I believe it contains both abrasives and fillers, but I'm not positive. I think there used to be a separate topic in here about it, but I'm not sure.
I am trying to fill a few scratches/chips in my car's paint by using the OEM touch-up paint. Filling the flaw is easy. Making it match the rest of the paint in it's flatness is harder. I have heard that pain leveller or superfine grit sandpaper will do the trick. Are these good? Can i do better?
dave
Too bad it was all about Zaino this and Zaino that.
The (same old) rules still apply here:
No Zaino posts.
No questions like: "What's almost as good as Zaino"?
No trolling.
No whining about why you can't talk about Zaino.
No discussion about that "other topic".
i.e. Just stay on topic.
bnormann
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