Store Bought Waxes Part II (No Zaino Posts)

sddlw · January 2001

A technique I use is to wait a few days or so after filling the chip with paint, then come back and gently wipe the spot with a rag dampened with lacquer thinner until the new paint is level with the old. But caution is needed. You don't want to be wiping down the old paint with solvents if you can avoid it.

jaclaz · January 2001

Now does anyone know of any web sites that talk to techniques to use these products? Sell them? Are there any discount sites say for Meguiars products? Has anyone used Zymol? Mother's? 3M? Kit?

Thanks again, Jack

joe166 · January 2001

There was a lot of discussion (or at least there was the last time I looked) on the techniques for repairing paint chips and scratches on the web site carcareonline. I downloaded detailled instructions some time ago which made a lot of sense. I have used the techniques and been fairly succesful with small rock chips, but not with long scratches. Unfortunately, when I went to find it to put the link here, it says the server is not available. Does anyone know if it has moved or if it is just gone?

sddlw · January 2001

Meguiars.com has a lot of good info that will help you select the right products and let's you see all of their consumer and professional products for cars and boats. I'm not sure about purchase though. But here is San Diego, Pep Boys caries many of the consumer and professional products.

vernlew · January 2001

Joe,
you musta experienced an internet burp....
the website is still: www.carcareonline.com
and I agree...it is a very informative site...plus they sell great products at a discount, and I have had no probs with my orders.
Vern

dweezil · January 2001

seems to be the best for holding up to Hell-A's gritty night time moisture. I own a white car purchased new in 99 and have used this product off and on for years.Started out with Turtle Wax for the first time I ever waxed a car [I was 10, car was a year old 66 Mercury Montclair] Used a 3 step product from Blue Coral on it in the early 70's that took THREE DAYS to apply by hand, but the shine was fantastic.
I have found a box of Blue Coral's Polyglycoat at a discount store.Apparently, at one point it was only available to dealers as an optional paint "treatment". I remember this stuff, but don't think it's offered by Blue Coral any longer. Would it be safe to use on my car? It's not dried up, is still fresh and seems to have been offered as a do it yourself treatment at some point;as the big thing is that it WAS only available for application by dealers. Anyone up on this product? Or Blue Coral's "Touchless" treatment? Thanks;Dweezil.

dweezil · January 2001

Maguire's only alsts a month here in L.A.Not very durable;while the Nufinish [or even 2001]last at least 3. THX;Dweezil

bretfraz · January 2001

I had the same problem with the URL. So I went in the back door:

http://www.carcarespecialties.com

dhanley · January 2001

Seems to last longer than anything i have tried. It also sems to work very well on swirl marks. It really does bead nicely for about six months. It isn't as shiny as wax, but i'd be willing to trade a bit of that for durability.

HOWEVER... I have tried nu-finish on non-clearcoat surfaces, and it takes up quite a bit of color, i.e. my cloth became the color of the car. This happened on a older mercury, and on the inside of my current car's engine compartment. This makes me worry that the nu-finish is doing such a great job by aggressively etching the clearcoat, which is paint, basically. This makes me worry a little about using nu-finish repeatedly. Am i way off base?

P.S. i'll try the superfine grit sandpaper this weekend and let you know what happens. I am very keen to fill in some of the long scratches too.

dave

bretfraz · January 2001

IMO, they sell two benefits:

Long-lasting protection. We've all seen the car wash commercials. My personal experience has not been the same as others in here but I'm sure it lasts adequately.

Restoring the finish. Those commercials also showed guys in lab coats going to a junkyard and polishing an old car. That means there is some pretty aggressive cleaners in Nu-Finish. David's old Mercury comments support this.

Personally, I wouldn't use Nu-Finish on a regular basis but then they don't promote it that way. I think it's an acceptable product for someone who doesn't want to wax their car frequently and doesn't have high expectations. That's probably most folks, if you think about it.

pjyoung · January 2001

trust any wax that involves a guy in a lab coat in a junk yard restoring a junked Volvo to "showroom condition" or any wax that has someone spray lighter fluid on the hood and light it. The sun may be harsh, but it has yet to ignite the paint on any of my cars. Wasn't there some infomercial wax called "Auri" (I think) with the British guy who set fire to a Rolls hood? I think I saw him hawking microwave cooking bags shortly after the Auri ad's left the airwaves.

But, that's not to say I haven't tried infomercial waxes - I used to use Auto Fom for a while. It actually did a pretty good job. I was just a sucker for Dennis Weaver driving his Jeep around the desert to show how it repeled dust! Since then, I've gotten a life ;>)

joebob6 · January 2001

http://www.auri.com/products/ExteriorProtectants.html

But like you I don't trust anyone that hawks their products by starting fire to the hood or putting drops of HCl on it.

mike_542 · January 2001

I don't reccomend NuFinish because it may cause your paint to peel. Also, the reason why there is paint on your towel is that NuFinish is an abrasive. My favorite store bought wax is Zymol's cleaner wax which is close to Zaino.

joe166 · January 2001

First, you used the dreaded "Z" word. Second, what do you mean Nufinish MAY cause your paint to peel? I have to believe that if there was any likelihood that someone had put paint remover in your Nufinish bottle it would have become a little more well known and people would be talking about that instead of whether it is less "shiny" than other waxes. That is preposterous! Did it happen to you? If so, perhaps you should say that. If someone told you it happened to them, perhaps that should be what you say, but to generalize that it "may" cause your paint to peel is wrong.
Third, I believe it is fairly well known that the Zymol that is available at Pep Boys, KMart, WalMart and other discount places is simply made by Turtle Wax and is no better or worse than some of the Turtle Wax products but has no relationship to the Zymol products sold on line or in Europe. I tried it once. It seemed to be about the same as many other products. Nothing outstanding that I saw. But I will admit it didn't make my paint peel.

mike_542 · January 2001

1.) Ooops...I used the Z word, but I only meant that Zymol Cleaner/Wax is close to more expensive waxes.

2A.) If you can read, I said before that, using NuFinish or any abrasive on NON-CLEAR COATED surfaces, will cause paint to come off on your towel. Try it yourself!

2B.) If you have searched around, you will notice complaints on how some "organic compounds produced by polymerization" products such as Nu Finish can cause "orange peel" if used for a long period of time. Here are a few links:

http://www.waxdepot.com/waxtalk/messages/1748.shtml

http://www.waxdepot.com/waxtalk/messages/824.shtml

Also, look back at a few edmunds.com posts.

3.) Well, even if it is made by Turtle Wax, Zymol is much better. It was rated number one, better than all of the Turtle Wax products and The Wax Shop products (which is the same company as Turtle Wax.)

joebob6 · January 2001

I doubt any polish or wax will cause orange peel. Orange peel happens when the car is painted. The only thing possibly that could have happened was that enough paint was removed to expose a layer of paint with orange peel.

The links you gave are "just someone's guess that Nufinish" caused the orange peel. For all you or I know the orange peel look could have been there all along and just became noticeable to the guy.

joe166 · January 2001

I don't know, but most people who are told that NuFinish was going to cause their paint to "peel" aren't going to worry about a slight case of orange peel, but are going to think that pieces of the paint are starting to flake off. That is the way the term is usually used. If you meant that Nufinish might cause orange peel of already cured paint, I don't care what wax depot says, I doubt it. Query? Does Wax Depot happen to sell Nufinish? You will have to give me some unbiased reports which I think are few and far between.

Anyway, I fear that we will not agree on this, but of all the reasons to not use nufinish, which include the fact that apparently it has some abrasive in it, and that it doesn't give a really superior shine, a danger of having it cause your paint to peel off might be pretty low on the list. That would be like a hair dressing that was really a depilatory. The word would get around.

silvercoupe · January 2001

I've been using NuFinish on a 91 white Accord since 92 and the paint hasn't peeled off yet. It may not be the best of waxes, but it works pretty good on this particular car. After all, white is not going to shine a lot. It lasts longer than anything else that I have tried.

The only complaint that I have is the powdery residue that is left behind. Not much of a problem on a white car, but sure could be a problem on a dark colored car.

sddlw · January 2001

I'm of the opinion that "orange peel" referes to a condition where the paint, when it is applied, does not go down evenly. When you look at it under the right light and angle, it looks like there are little bumps or splotches (a real technical term!) :-) throughout the surface. This phenomenon is more common today as the new generation of water based paints are harder to get down properly and the manufacturers just aren't taking the time to sand and glaze the finishes to a mirror finish during the painting process. Depending on the extent of the orange peel, it might be impossible to fix with sanding and glazing during the painting process.

I'm no fan of NuFinish, but I cannot imagine any surface abrasive or wax/polymenr to "orange peel".
Rather, I'd recommend using a polish or glaze if you need to to remove surface imperfections and swirls and an abrasive free wax/poymer sealant for month to month maintanance.

bretfraz · January 2001

This discussion is probably better suited to Paint and Body Care, but with today's clearcoat paint jobs, eliminating orange peel will be impossible. It's easy to do with a lacquer paint job and fairly easy on an enamel job. Both can be color-sanded and buffed out.

Today's paint is super thin. It's water-based (mostly), applied by robot, and done more with cost in mind than quality. If you buy a Lexus or something expensive you can expect a multi-stage process but will probably still see orange peel. There's a guy who works in my building that has a Bentley Arnage Green Label..... in black. You wouldn't believe the orange peel on that thing. So much for his $300,000.

No wax or polish will eliminate orange peel. You can't color sand clearcoats.

sddlw · January 2001

bretfraz, my 2000 Lexus has this problem to some extent. I've heard some MB owners complaining as well. The new paints are "softer" too. More stone chips and scratches. Too bad. The paints from the early 90s seemed better to me.

hotrod20 · January 2001

You may recall from many posts earlier that I switched from Pinnacle Souveran carnuba wax to Meguiar's Medallion Premium Paint Protection. I liked the Pinnacle shine but had a problem days later when I wiped the dust off the car. The wax at that point would appear to streak or smear. Using a wet rag or lightly spraying water on the car and wiping it down with a dry towel solved the problem and brought back the great shine. However I didn't want to rebuff the car everytime I had to go out. Thus I switched to Meguiar's in the hope that I wouldn't have to rebuff the car all the time. (I only use my car on weekends.)

The Medallion PPP shine was very good but different from the carnuba shine. Wiping the dust off the car still produced smearing though not as much as with the carnuba. Wetting and rebuffing didn't always work so one day I sprayed Pinnacle Crystal Mist which has carnuba wax in it when lo and behold, I got the shine back. This made me long for that great carnuba shine. Worst of all, I now had to contend with white dried wax residue in the seams and gaps of my car. I am still finding residue weeks after I last used the Medallion wax. I now carry a toothbrush with me whenever I wash, wax or just just wipe down the car. This past weekend I took out my Pinnacle Souveran wax and put back the great carnuba shine. I followed the manufacture's instruction this time and prepped the car with their Paintwork Cleansing Lotion.

You were right "Bretfaz", there is nothing like a great carnuba shine.

j2smell · February 2001

I saw a demonstration of Liquid Lustre at a car show, and was just wanting to know if anyone has used it with good results. Their web site is www.liquidlustre.com

weathermanbob · February 2001

Hello All. I was just reading through 100 or so of the posts here and was wondering if anyone has ever used or currently using BLUE CORAL AUTOFOM Surface Sealant. I really like it and it lasts about 3 months and beads and shines well. I t would be cool to hear form other users. Have a great day Bob

protegextwo · February 2001

Bret, I was hoping you would share some advice with me. In the winter, I occasionally use an auto soft cloth car wash, due to the extreme cold weather in Southeastern Pa. When I return home after the car wash, my Y2k Mica Green Protege has a fair amount of water spots and soapy run marks left on the clear coat. I think you posted here in the past about using a Meguire's product for maintenance between wax jobs. I went to my local Auto Zone today and saw two Mequire's products that seemed similar to what you liked?

Meguiar's Final Inspection
Meguire's Quik Detailer

My questions:
1.) Do you recommend either of these products?
2.) Would either of these products help me buff out the water spots and/or leftover soap residue from the auto soft cloth cars wash?
3.) What is the difference between Final Inspection 34 and Quick Detailer Mist and Wipe?
4.) I last waxed my Mazda PRO-ES with Preston Bullet Wax about 30 days ago, can I use the Meguiar's products on top of the Bullet Wax?

Bret, my friend thank you in advance for your advice!

Respectfully;
Larry

fish8 · February 2001

I use Meguiars Quik Detailer all the time. I use it in between washings. These products are really not meant to be used on really dirty cars. I would recommend that you spray some detailer on your water spots as soon as you get home from the car wash. Use a 100% cotton cloth and wipe the spots off. if the spots don't come out I would then use a wax or polish.

Using these detailers on top of Bullit wax will not hurt. It will actually make your wax last longer.

duckcaller · February 2001

I started mixing vinegar and water in Germany where the water was so hard it dented your car (actually that's a slight exageration, but the mineral deposited so bad you'd have to start over before you finished). I've since been using exclusively vinegar and water to wash and rinse for the past ten years - no soap (especially car wash soap!). What I've found: wax lasts ALL year now (wax job lasts so long you forget what brand you bought last time) and much less problem with water spotting. I simply put straight vinegar in one of those yard chemical sprayers that attaches to your hose and set the dial to 2 tbsp/gal. For heavy mud and dirt I'll use straight water with my power sprayer and then rinse with vinegar and water. I use an old rag to wipe off regular road grime and then rinse. My experience showed no harm to paint - in fact my last trade-in the dealer wanted to know how I'd kept my finish so good-looking at ten years.

Anybody else using this? I'd recommend you try it... vinegar's only about a dollar a gallon jug. I tried all the major name-brand car washes and was always disappointed in how fast my wax job disappeared - I think it's a conspiracy, they want your wax job to wear off quick so you buy more wax!

skg3 · February 2001

My car is 3 years old with a Perma Plate coat applied on it when it was new. There're swirls developing and they can be seen at an angle. I was told not to use any wax (since that coat supposed to serve as a lifetime wax layer?) Do any of you have any experience in removing the swirls off a car that has somekind of wax treatment? Thanks in advance!!

chuasan · February 2001

Hi duckcaller,

i am wondering if i can use a bucket of water mix with vinegar and wash with sponge - i dont have yard chemical sprayer (i live in apt). one more thing, is it really stink when washing the car with vinegar? i dont want my neighbor to complaint to my landlord. i am very interested about your idea. thanks

protegextwo · February 2001

Thank you for the feedback! ;-)

-Larry

pjyoung · February 2001

I don't know of any "Wax" that will protect forever. My guess is that they put some sort of polymer finish that would last longer than wax, but over time, it would wear off. I used "polyglycoat" which was supposed to be one of those "never wax again" kind of products. I still waxed over it with no ill effects. You're going to have to use something to remove the swirls, and there are several products that you can read about in this and other car care topics (is that politically correct enough?). If the swirls are deep, you'll need some sort of polish. I believe Meguires makes a pretty good polish/glaze, but you will have to "wax" the car once it's done to protect it. There are several opinions on which "wax" to use discussed in this and other car care forums. I would tell you the one I would recommend, but I have been asked to keep my religious preferences off this board (inside joke).

adc100 · February 2001

Thanks for the info. I recently have been using vinegar for a lot of clean up jobs. Works great in shower. I was thinking of using it for my car. Think I'll give it a try. I don't believe the smell will bother the neighbors. As I said I use it on the shower walls when I'm still in and its no problem.

Later

bretfraz · February 2001

Good to hear from you again.

Although Fish8 is correct, I'll answer your questions directly:

1. I recommend both and have used both for many years.

2. Either product will work great in removing light water spots and soap residue. In fact, I used to do exactly the same thing when I lived in Chicago. I usually bucket-washed my car in the winter but there were always a few water spots. Final Inspection/Quik Detailer worked like a charm to remove them once I got home, the car warmed up and I thawed out.

3. The difference between the two is simply fragrance and maybe some coloring. FI is part of Meguiars Mirror Glaze professional line and QD is a "mass retail" product.

4. Fish8 is right, FI/QD will enhance your wax and make it last a bit longer. FI/QD is a fine liquid polish and one of its benefits is to extend the time between wax jobs. For example, my Saab is a little dusty and the wheels have a coat of brake dust on them. After I send this note I'll head to the garage and wipe down with FI. No need for the hose and bucket.

Two comments about Final Inspection/Quik Detailer: Ever go to one of those new car shows? Wonder what the detailers use to wipe down the show cars to remove dust and fingerprints? Yep, Final Inspection.
I have a friend that tricked-out a BMW; it made all the car magazines. In the three years he owned it he only washed it twice. He went thru bottles of FI and the car always looked show-ready. Obviously not a daily driver but FI/QD can reduce the number of times you have to wash and wax.

bretfraz · February 2001

Did the place your bought your Mercedes offer a warranty or guarantee with the Perma-Plate? You may want to check your paperwork and see. If so take it back and have it re-applied. I'll bet the Perma-Plate was expensive.

joebob6 · February 2001

What exactly is the difference between Mequiar's Quik Detailer and their Final Inspection? Is one preferable to the other?

The maroon bottles (Quik Detailer and associated polishes) contain silicone. The tan bottles (The Professional Line, including Final Inspection, Show Car Glaze, etc.) do not. Their function is similar,but you want to use the non-silicone product if you expect to be doing any touch up or repainting of your car.

bretfraz · February 2001

To avoid confusion, the exact differences between the specific products (Quik Detailer and Final Inspection) are as I posted. I got this info directly from Meguiars a couple years ago.

When it comes to the color of the container, I suggest checking at meguiars.com for differences between specific products.

jster · February 2001

I believe Bretfraz is right..there is very little difference between Final Inspection and Quik Detailer.

Most of these quick detailer products are a solution of water, alcohol and some type of wax/polymer.

3m's quick detailer is just water and isopropyl alcohol!

As far as there being a "rule of thumb" that the "tan Bottle" Meguairs stuff doesn't contain silicone and the red bottle stuff does---well, #26 Hi-Tech Yellow Wax is "tan Bottle" "Mirror Glaze Professional Line"--and the back of the bottle or can tells you it contains silicone.

So I don't think that there is any "Meguiar's Silicone Rule of Thumb"

As far as I know all the "red bottle" stuff has a very close equivalent in the "tan bottle" line--but there are "tan bottle" products with no "red bottle" equivalent.

That's a lotta bottle.

And after writing all that, I think I'm going to get a green bottle of Rolling Rock.

jster · February 2001

How bad are the swirls? If they're not too bad you might be best off using some kind of non-abrasive polish like 3M Imperial Hand Glaze--which fills in swirls very nicely--then waxing over it to fill them in.

If you want to try to remove them--remember you are also removing a small amount of paint--levelling, as it were.

If you are not comfortable with that idea--you are best off just trying to fill them in. Also it is difficult to remove swirls completely without using a rotary buffer--which is something you don't want to do on a three year old Mercedes unless you have a lot of experience with one.

Both Meguiar's (Swirl Remover)and 3M (Foam Polishing Pad Glaze), among others, make abrasive hand polishes that will at least reduce the severity of swirls. You could contact one of those companies for advice.

There are many other polishes that contain fine abrasives such as Zymol HD Cleanse or 3M Cleaner Wax. These will reduce swirls.

Stay away from any product that says on the bottle--"for machine use only".

It all depends on what the problem is--and what you are comfortable doing about it.

And the advice you got regarding taking the car back to the dealer, is a good idea in my opinion--I know they sell that stuff with the idea it lasts the life of the car--so call their hand on it.

protegextwo · February 2001

Bret, I really enjoy detailing both my Mazda Y2K PRO-ES's. It's a challenge (obsession, he he?) to keep them looking identical. Nonetheless, I truly enjoy the process! My wife has less than zero interest in the detail process, however she cuts me some slack and allows me a couple hours a week without too much bitchen, ;-0. I enjoy posting here at the wax topics because the folks here have helped me to go from point A to B in developing my knowledge in auto detailing. Bret, you have been especially helpful and I am greatful that you are willing to share your tips and suggestions. Well tomorrow I will head over to Auto Zone and drop a few greenbacks,lol!

Respectfully;
Larry

sddlw · February 2001

If you're gonna use a glaze or polish to remove the swirls, I've had good results with Meguiar's Swirl Remover, followed by Show Car Polish, using a good quality orbital buffer. Then wax or use a polymer to protect the finish. PS: I've never heard of a non-abrasive glaze. I thought that was sort of the definition of a glaze or polish, to contain abrasives, course, fine or extra-super fine..?? But, maybe the term glaze has been broadened a bit? BTW: abrasives are not necessarily a bad thing. But try to stay with the finest, least abrasive that will get the job done, and don't use them all the time. Stay away from polishing compounds. Most consumer coumpounds are way too abrasive. To put it in perspective, toothpaste contains the same kind of abrasive as many of the mildly abrasive car glazes.

jjccrv · February 2001

The Final Inspection does not contain silicone which is why it says on the bottle that it is body shop safe. Quik Detailer does contain silicone and does not make that stmt.

bretfraz · February 2001

jjccrv is right and I was wrong. I stand corrected and apologize for the confusion in my post #637. I reclarified thru Meguiars today. I had been misinformed previously.

This issue only applies to body shop folks anyway. They do not want to use products with silicone in them since they can create "fish eyes" in the paint. That's the primary reason Final Inspection exists. For us non-car painters, QD is fine.

duckcaller · February 2001

Just be careful with the full strength vinegar around unprotected metal - it's essentially ascetic acid and will oxidize metal if left on there long enough. Using the chemical sprayer, you probably want to buy one just for this... I have no idea what Ortho weed be gone will do to your finish... so either get a separate sprayer just for this or be sure you clean your chem sprayer out thoroughly before you do the car. The chem sprayer is really handy because you don't have to hefting full buckets and throwing them on your car... just add the vinegar to the sprayer, hook it up to your hose, select around 2 tbsp per gallon, and let it rip. Plus you can pour back the unused vinegar into the jug when you're done.

joebob6 · February 2001

What I posted above was an emailed response from the expert at Meguiar's. expert@meguiars.com

jster · February 2001

That may be true for Final Inspection and for Show Car Glaze--but #26 Hi-Tech Yellow Wax is a "tan bottle" "Mirror Glaze" product--and the back of the bottle clearly says:

"Contains polymers, resins, and SILICONES".

So again--I don't think their is an absolute rule of thumb on this.

jster · February 2001

FYI:

3M Imperial Hand Glaze contains no abrasives-the label states; Contains: Stoddard solvents, White Mineral Oil (Petroleum).

The MSDS at the 3M-Canada website lists the same ingredients.

Stoddard solvent is a mineral spirit based chemical cleaner.

There are no abrasives like aluminum silicates or fine quartz in Imperial Hand Glaze-as opposed to Meguiar's Swirl Remover, for example, which does contains fine abrasives.

There are other "glazes" on the market, similar to IHG. The chemical cleaners may abrade the surface a little--but their main purpose is clean; and they contain "fillers" like mineral oils, to fill surface imperfections.

Some people aren't comfortable using an abrasive polish, for various reasons, which is why I suggested IHG as an option.

The whole nomenclature of glazes and polishes is pretty meaningless, in my experience. There are several non-abrasive products on the market that are called polishes, also.

molloni · February 2001

I just pulled my bottle off the shelf, and I don't see anything about it containing or not containing silicone. What does this mean? And what does it mean if I want to touch up that stone chip on my hood? I've read in the past that if you use any product that contain silicone, repainting will not be possible. If I knew that QD had silicone, I probably would not have bought it for the very reason of having to do some touch up hear and there.
What are your opinions of this? Is there still a way to do touch up, even though I've used this product? Thanks!

jster · February 2001

It's a good idea to clean off the area with isopropyl (rubbing) alcohol before you use touch-up paint. The paint should adhere okay as long as you've cleaned it out first. A cotton Q-tip or cloth dipped in alcohol works good.

There are also tar, wax, and silicone removers like 3m Prep Solvent that you can buy at auto paint stores--these are basically alcohol based solvents--but in my experience rubbing alcohol works fine before doing a touch-up.

joebob6 · February 2001

As long as your vehicle is not fiberglass you should be ok with just using isopropyl alcohol. Please do not respond, "I own a Corvette".

tomsr · February 2001

Just got a new car and did not get the Teflon
sealant for $300.What else can I use to protect
my new finish and still looks great.I always thought that $300 was steep for a wax job.

Store Bought Waxes Part II (No Zaino Posts)

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