Lease Questions - Ask Here

CarMan@Edmunds · May 2002

No problem, Chicagoland. I am glad that I was able to help you out.

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CarMan@Edmunds · May 2002

Welcome to the wonderful world of leasing, mlauricella. Leasing can be a good deal for certain people, if they have the necessary driving habits and are looking at a vehicle with a good lease program available on it. You mentioned that you have ordered a 2002 Chevrolet Trailblazer. Keep in mind that you will only be eligible for the lease program that it available when you physically take delivery of your new truck. This may be different than the program that GM is running on it right now. If you were to lease a 2002 Chevrolet Trailblazer through General Motors Acceptance Corp. prior to July 31st, you should be able to use their base lease rate of either 3.5% or 6.5%. The exact rate that is available will depend upon what part of the country you are leasing this truck in. GMAC's 36 month, 15,000 miles per year residual value for this truck should be either 51% or 52%, again depending upon what area you are in. Unfortunately, the $1,000 consumer cash that General Motors is providing on the 2002 Trailblazer right now may not be used in conjunction with GMAC's lease program. I would be more than happy to provide you with a sample lease payment for this truck, however first I am going to need you to tell me where you plan on leasing it and what its full MSRP is.

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CarMan@Edmunds · May 2002

Hi arjun. I would be happy to help you out. If you were to lease a 2002 BMW 745i through BMW Financial Services this month for 3 years with 12,000 miles per, their base lease money factor and residual value should be .00255 and 63%, respectively. I am sorry to say that I do not know exactly how tax is calculated on leased vehicles in your particular state. You will need to check with someone at your Department of Motor Vehicles or even at the dealership that you are dealing with to find out how tax is calculated. BMW's Owner's Choice program is really nothing more than a balloon note. In certain states with unusual tax laws balloon notes can sometimes be better deals than normal leases. Again since I am not sure about the tax laws in your state I am not sure if this is the case where you are. Typically speaking though, leases are much much more popular than balloon notes.

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rlowrie · May 2002

Car_Man - Need some info on leasing a 2002 Toyota Sequoia Limited. Looking at 3 yr adn 15 or 20k miles. MF and residual would be great. Thanks

gperr · May 2002

Car_man,

Hi again. Well- my lease is almost up (7/31/02) and I am starting the process of selecting a replacement for my 2001 Explorer Sport. (actually my fiance' drives it) What to get. The Ford Dealer has already started sending "Come see me" notices. But the residuals on the 4 door explorers is so bad that I think I am done with Ford for the time being. We live in Southern NJ (Philadelphia market).

I have several vehicles in mind.

A) My fiance' is interested in the Honda Civic Sedan EX (Auto w/side Air Bags), which we may lease or possible buy (4.9% financing).

Also considering the Accord Coupe EX V6 Auto (Lease)
C) Nissan Pathfinder LE 4WD Auto (Lease)

D) and my choice (but will probably wait until my other car is up), Infinity G35 Sedan.

Can you please provide me the following information for the above 4 vehicles.

1. Current Residual & MF for 24 and 36 months, 12K miles/year for each of the following. (Feel free to give me the rates for the odd number of months ie 27 or 39 etc., if one is better).

2. Date that the program ends.

3. Any lease cash available with these cars.

4. The "bank fee" that each captive finance company adds into their capital cost in the lease calculation.

I will probably repeat this request for info in June and July- to see if waiting is better.

Thanks again Car_man

Gregg

im_brentwood · May 2002

On Leases, Illinois charges sales tax, based on where you live, on the sales price of the car.

Bill

youzer · May 2002

Car_man,

Guess I will look for something other than a pickups that I like. How are Blazers? Same story for poor lease support? I would have tried for the Trail Blazer, but that is larger than the Blazer...

Can you tell me the numbers for:

2002 Chevrolet Blazer LS 2WD 4dr 4.3L 6cyl 4A)
36 mo Lease
15k miles annually
Tempe, AZ

Also, what is the $ for miles over, $0.08/mi?

And the same truck, but just 4WD if that makes a difference....

Thanks, yet again!!!

jgwoods · May 2002

Car_Man: You originally gave me info for April end leasing rates (was bad timing). What are the current residuals and money factors for both the Jetta 1.8t and GLS 2.0 for May? Also, is VW offering any incentives, rebates, etc for their Jettas? I want to lease for 12000/36months in Illinois.

Thanks again!

jgwoods · May 2002

Bill, I'm in Illinois and I still don't understand their taxing procedures. I know that if you are in Chicago, taxes are much higher than if you are say 2 miles outside of Chicago (crazy)!
Here's my question--Does Illinois charge tax on the sticker price;the cap cost;or the total price of the sale?

JGW

im_brentwood · May 2002

Well, Taxes=Government.

And YOU want to figure out ANYTHING Related to Politics in NE Illinois????

Are you CRAZY? ;-D

Its' taxed on the gross cap cost. I.E. Cap Cost plus bank fee... MSRP is only used to calculate the rtesidual, unless you are buying an Odyssey or something

Bill

gsgetz · May 2002

My lease is ending for 1999 Windstar SE. Buy out is $14,700. I would buy it if the price was better. Called Ford and they said no negotiation on buy out. Have you found this to be the case with fords? Dosen't this cost them money?

Also, what happens with the auctions? Can I follow the car and buy it at auction for less?

Thanks alot,
George

im_brentwood · May 2002

Post over in Real-World Trade-In Values with some specifics on your van.,.. If it is the right van, it may do that at the sale as right now the used car market is VERY strong.

As far as auctions, it will go to a dealer-only auction that's no open to the public. All said and done, if the miles are low, it may well do $14K+ at the sale. Figure IF you know what sale it goes to and it does $14K plus fees, we're at $14,300.. and a wholesaler wouldnt buy it for less than $500 for a retail customer... etc...

Bill

ikid · May 2002

I'm debating whether to lease a 99 BMW 540i. Does anyone know how much they lease for and do they come with a warranty, if I don't by from a BMW dealer.

mlauricella · May 2002

Thanks for the info Car_man. My truck was being built on 5/6/02. GM says 7-10 days for transport to Buffalo NY ( Joe Basil Chevrolet, Depew NY ). I should take delivery by 5/31.

When you say I will be able to use GMAC's rate of either 3.5% or 6.5%, will it be either or, or somewhere in between?

The residual for a 15K lease is 51 or 52%? I thought it would be higher.

Im leasing it through Basil Chevrolet, Depew NY.
Tax is 8% here. The MSRP on the vehicle is $37,109, but my GM Supplier price is $33,5, not 32,5 as I said in my previous post.

Maybe I should just buy it, since they have the 1.9 apr.

A sample lease would be great.

Thanks for your help.

dblot · May 2002

Car Man--

We're near the end of our lease on a '99 saab wagon and are thinking about leasing a new one. Term would be 3yrs, 15K per year. The full MSRP for the automatic transmission (w/metallic paint) is 36995. If we have to also take the premium package, which is apparently all that a lot of dealers have, the MSRP is 38690. What do the residual values and interest rate/MF look like for these cars for this month. Your evaluation of saab's lease program at this point would be much appreciated.

CarMan@Edmunds · May 2002

Hi rlowrie. Toyota has not provided any sort of incentives on the Sequoia since it was introduced. So if you were to lease one through Toyota Financial Services this month, you would have to use their standard lease money factor. The last that I heard, TFS' standard lease money factor for their top credit tier was .00280. The 3 year 15,000 miles per residual value for a 2002 Sequoia Limited 4WD leased through TFS right now should be 53%.

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footie · May 2002

Not withstanding Car_Man's always on point comments and numbers, one of the issues to address with Saab's is their real pricing.

I don't know your location, but the Boston area is a very competitive Saab market where the vehicles are heavily discounted. Dealer inventories are very high. To strike a good deal you might want to shop here even if it meant travelling to get a car.

In the May 11 Sunday Globe auto section here are few leads to follow:

* Saab of Nashua, NH ( 1 hour north of Boston) has left over NEW 2001 9-5 SE Wagons, w/V6 automatic, leather, traction, heated seates etc. $27,990 DELIVERED 12K off MSRP.

* Charles River Saab is offering 9-3 sedan leases at $239 / mo and 9-5 Sedans at $299 / mo. Wagons could be similar.

* Herb Chambers Saab is offering a 2002 9-5 Linear Sedan with Premium Package for $28,975 and a lease of $359. They may have something comparable in a wagon.

If you do the math on these and even use a zero money factor, you have to realize that these are GM supported programs, with substantial discounts below invoice.

* The Edmunds TMV for the new 2002 9-5 Linear wagons is 2k UNDER invoice which bears this out.

Good luck

CarMan@Edmunds · May 2002

Hi Gregg. You certainly are interested in a diverse group of vehicles. Off of the top of my head, I can tell you that the Accord and the Civic are definitely going to be the best deals. I have to say though that I think that Infiniti has done an outstanding job with the G35 and would be tempted to get one if I was in the market for a new vehicle right now. I think that their coupe version of this car looks even better, but it won't be introduced for a little while. OK, if you were to lease a 2002 Honda Civic EX Sedan through American Honda Finance Corp. this month for 2 or 3 years, their base lease money factor should be .00090. The corresponding 12,000 miles per year residual values for this car should be 60% and 58%, respectively. If you were to lease a 2002 Accord Coupe EX V6 through AHFC this month for 2 or 3 years, their base lease money factor for both terms should be .00135. The corresponding 12,000 miles per year residual values are currently 60% and 57%, respectively. If you were to lease a 2002 Nissan Pathfinder LE 4WD through Nissan Motor Acceptance Corp. this month for 2 or 3 years, their base lease money factors should both be .00185. The corresponding 12,000 miles per year residual values should currently be 60% and 52%. Last but not least we have the 2003 Infiniti G35. If you were to lease this car through Infiniti Financial Services this month for 2 or 3 years, their base lease money factor for both terms should be .00260. The corresponding 12,000 miles per year residual values for this car, with leather, should be 64% and 55%, respectively. All of the aforementioned lease programs are only scheduled to run through the end of May. As far as lease cash goes, the only one of these models that has lease cash available on it this month is the Nissan Pathfinder, which has $1,000.

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CarMan@Edmunds · May 2002

Thanks for the info, Bill.

Car_man
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CarMan@Edmunds · May 2002

Youzer, GM is definitely providing a little more support on the Blazer than it is on its larger SUVs. Unfortunately most of their support on this truck is available on 2-Door models. In certain areas, like the Northeastern U.S. they also have support on 4-Door Blazers, but I am not sure if that is the case in your neck of the woods. Chevrolet's base lease program for the 2002 Blazer 4-Door provides a lease rate of 6.5% and a scary residual value of 39%. Their supported program for this truck provides a lease rate of 3.5%, a much higher residual value, and around $2,000 in lease cash. I believe that this program is available on 2-Door models in just about all of the country. I am sorry to say that I do not know if the better program is available on 4-Door models in your area. The best thing that you can do is comparison shop at a couple of other dealerships to see what sort of deals they are offering or try to see if anyone on the SUV Message Board has lease a Blazer in your area recently. I believe that GMAC's excess mileage cost is still $.08, buy you need to check with them to be certain.

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im_brentwood · May 2002

Glad to help.

I do have all the states info if you ever need it...

Bill

s2graham · May 2002

Hi Car_man!

My question is about a 99 Saab 93 that we have leased for the past three years.

I got a call from Saab today (we are leasing through Saab financial) and they made me the following offer to buy the car out of the lease: $14680.86 + 917.55 tax = $15598.41.

Our lease buyout was originally listed as 14685.00. This car rates on Edmunds as: 13707.00 trade / 14973.00 private sale / 16369.00 dealer / 17169.00 certified. Blue Book lists it as 12685.00 trade and 15835.00 sell.

We have 3 payments left. Saab mentioned that they do not have a re-finance department, so we need to find other financing. They said this was their best deal and it is good through June 11th.

Now to my questions:

Is it probable/possible that Sabb will offer a lower price to buy the car out?

Are they less likely to bargain than a bank?

Since they do not refinance themselves, does this bear on their willingness to negotiate?

If we wait until -say- 30 days before lease end to make a decision - would that make a difference?

And - is there any good tactic to bargain directly with Saab since they finaced the lease?

Thanks in advance for your input and help!
Stuart

im_brentwood · May 2002

If you want to know what they are doing at the sales at the moment, post over in Real-World Trade-In Values in Smart shopper. We can help...

Right now is NOT the time to negotiate. Within 30 days of lease end is. And ask to speak to a Manager too.

SAAB Will negotiate I have heard...

Bill

dblot · May 2002

Thanks for the info on pricing in the Boston area. I just talked today to one of the Saab dealers in my area (DC) and he told me that there's a $4000 leasing incentive that Saab is offering. So that may help explain why there are so many good lease deals out there. I don't know if this is something new or if Saab has been offering this for some time now, but it was news to me and I hadn't seen any mention of it in the Edmunds section listing the current incentives manufacturers are offering. He also said that the interest rate on a lease was currently 1.39%. I assume that's a good rate, but I don't know what the residual value is that they're using for the lease, so I'm not sure exactly how to evaluate this info.

footie · May 2002

I think that Saab has been offering substantial support for some months now, both in terms of reduced effective pricing and darn near zero money factors ( virtually interest free leases ). Since GM has been running the show for them, I guess that they have been insuring that Saab holds its market share during the economic downturn with strong discounts.

I remember seeing the Saab 9-3 SE very nicely eqiupped a month or two ago for $269 a month with around $1000 down or so. It really moved the price point on the 9-3 down into the mid 20's, where it is very competitive.

Good luck in your shopping!

gperr · May 2002

Car_man,

Thanks for the info I requested above. Always a pleasure to read this topic.

Can you please provide for me the Bank Fee which is included in the Cap cost for Nissan, Infinity, and Honda.

Thanks

Gregg

footie · May 2002

Saab's regional dealers have an ad in Boston Globe today for a 9-5 Linear Wagon. They give you the pre-tax payment of $369 in the ad and some of the info in the 'fine print' below.

I fed this into my spreadsheet and iterated a bit to come up with estimates for the kind of discounting they are doing:

Final payment is around $387 based on the way taxes are done in MA and the "due at signing" goes up a little too.

Vehicle is disocunted by $4,300 OFF MSRP.
Interest on Lease is 0%. Note, that if the money factor were a more typical .002 (~ 4.8% / yr ) the monthly payments would go up by about $93, adding about $3380 to the lease term costs.

There are 14 Saab Dealers listed in the ad and probably something similar in DC.

Here are details.

MSRP $35,320 (ad)
Capitalized Cost (negotiated fair price) $31,075 **
First months payment $368.91 (ad)
Acquisition Fee $600 **
Security Deposit $369 **
Capitalized Cost Reduction $1,900 **
Due at signing not including tax/fees $3,237.91 (ad)
Residual Percentage 45% **
Residual Value after 3 years $15,894.00 (ad)
Term Depreciation $13,280.76 (ad)
Interest Rate 0.0% **
Money Factor 0**
Monthly Lease Rate $0.00 **
Number of months 36 (ad)
Monthly Depreciation $368.91 **
Newspaper ad price / month $368.91 (ad)
(this price doesn't include taxes)
State Sales Tax on Payment $18.45 **
Monthly Payment $387.36 **

Prelim Due at signing $3,237.91 **
Doc fees $100.00 **
Tax on cap cost reduction $95.00 **
Total Due at Signing $3,432.91 **

** represents my estimates in order to make the numbers 'work'.

CarMan@Edmunds · May 2002

Jgwoods, I would be glad to give you that information again for the month of May. If you were to lease a 2002 Volkswagen Jetta 1.8T Sedan through VW Credit this month for 3 years with 12,000 miles per, their base lease money factor and residual value should be .00120 and 57%, respectively. The numbers for an otherwise identical lease of a 2002 Jetta GLS 2.0L Sedan should be .00153 and 57%, respectively.

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CarMan@Edmunds · May 2002

Mlauricella, those are the two interest rates that GMAC is offering on this truck this month. The exact rate that you will be able to take advantage of will depend upon which one is available in your region. Since you are in the New York area, you should be able to take advantage of the 3.5% base lease rate and the higher 52% residual value. The residual values that you posted are correct. Unfortunately, the residual values that are being used by banks have really fallen over the past several years, especially on domestic products and trucks. In fact, the 50% residual values that GMAC has on this truck are actually artificially inflated from the number that they actually believe to be accurate in an effort to provide a lower monthly lease payment on this truck. Taking advantage of the special financing rates that the domestic manufacturers are providing on their SUVs often turns out to be the best way to go. Let's take a look at a sample lease payment for this truck. If you were to lease a 2002 Chevrolet Trailblazer (MSRP: $37,109 / Cap Cost: $33,500) through GMAC for 3 years with 15,000 miles per, their zero down, pre-tax monthly lease payment should be right around $472 or so.

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CarMan@Edmunds · May 2002

Hi dblot. Saab almost always has an outstanding lease program available on its products, and this month is no exception. If you were to lease a 2002 Saab 9-5 Linear Wagon through Saab Financial Services Corp. for 3 years with 15,000 miles per in May, their base lease money factor and residual value should be .00058 and 44%, respectively. Even though this vehicle has a low residual value, the lease money factor is great and they also have $4,000 lease cash on this particular model that helps soften the blow.

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CarMan@Edmunds · May 2002

Thanks Bill, I would like to take you up on that. Is it in some sort of spreadsheet that can be e-mailed?

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CarMan@Edmunds · May 2002

Hi Stuart. I definitely would not say that Saab Financial Services is any less likely to negotiate a leased vehicle's purchase option price than a bank would be. I have seen them lower their purchase option prices for certain lessees in the past, so it certainly is possible that they would decide to lower their price on this car even further. However, there is no way to know for certain unless you ask. You may actually may have to move your discussions with them up the ladder a few levels to get any results.

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CarMan@Edmunds · May 2002

Hey Gregg. I would be more than happy to provide you with information on the acquisition fees for the banks that you are interested in. Keep in mind that this fee can usually be paid in advance or rolled into your vehicle's lease payment in most instances. The bank fee for Nissan Motor Acceptance Corp. should currently be $545, the bank fee for Infiniti Financial Services should currently be around $450 (I haven't seen that one in a while and they may have increased it to NMAC's $545 level), and the acquisition fee for American Honda Finance Corp. should currently be $550.

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s2graham · May 2002

Thanks for the info Bill and Car_man. I am going to check out the info over in Real-World Trade-In Values in Smart shopper... I did quite a bit of reading here last night. I appreciate your responses.

Stuart

im_brentwood · May 2002

No problemo!

I'll dig up my list and get the info out to ya.

Bill

im_brentwood · May 2002

Glad to help!

alexi1 · May 2002

Does anyone know how the taxes on a lease are calculated in NY? I'd appreciate any input.

Thank you,
Alex.

michaellno · May 2002

Could you provide me with the money factors and residual %'s for the following 3 vehicles:

Honda Accord EX
Toyota Camry SE
Nissan Altima 2.5S

All with manual transmissions. 12,000 and 15,000 miles per year. 36 and 48 month terms.

Thanks in advance!

topgun7 · May 2002

Hello Car_man, I live in the SF bay area. I am interested in leasing either a ES300 with premium package (no nav) or an RX300 FWD coach edition (no nav) for 4 year 15000 miles/year. What is the money factor and residual value that Lexus is offering right now? thanks.

CarMan@Edmunds · May 2002

Thanks a lot Bill!

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CarMan@Edmunds · May 2002

Hey michaell. I would be glad to help you out. You definitely want to lease the Accord for 36 months instead of 48, because their lease support only extends through 3 year terms. If you were to lease a 2002 Honda Accord EX through American Honda Finance Corp. for 3 years with 15,000 miles per, their base lease money factor and residual value should currently be .00135 and 55%. The 12,000 miles per year residual value would increase to 57%. If you were to lease a 2002 Toyota Camry through Toyota Financial Services this month for 3 years with 15,000 miles per, their base lease money factor and residual value should be .00280 and 53%, respectively. The 4 year 15,000 miles per numbers should currently be .00280 and 46%, respectively. The 12,000 miles per residual values for both of these terms should be 2% higher. Last but not least, if you were to lease a 2002 Nissan Altima 2.5S through Nissan Motor Acceptance Corp. this month, their 3 year 15,000 miles per base factor and resid should be .00210 and 51%. Their 4 year numbers should be .00244 and 45%. For leases with 12,000 miles per year, the 3 year residual would increase 1% and the 4 year residual would increase 2%.

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CarMan@Edmunds · May 2002

Hey topgun7. I don't believe that Lexus currently has lease support on any of its vehicles other than the IS 300. So if you were to lease either of these models through Lexus Financial Services this month, you would have to use their base standard lease money factor of .00260 (for consumers with good credit). The 4 year, 15,000 miles per residual values for the 2002 ES 300 should be 56% and for the 2002 RX300 2WD should be 50%.

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multiplechoice · May 2002

My father in law interested in a full size pick-up and was wondering who has the best MF/residuals in southern CA (1/2 ton 2wd.Chevy 1500, Ford F150, Dodge 1500, Toyota Tundra). 12K/yr 36mo. Thanks!

clpurnell · May 2002

I would like money factor and residual values for the following.

Infiniti I35
Infiniti G35

Also is there any cash incentives on the I35 that could be used in combo with the lease rates. These are for 3yr 12k mi terms. Thnks Car_Man you provide a valuable service.

CarMan@Edmunds · May 2002

Hi multiplechoice. Unfortunately, the answer to your question is E None of the Above. For whatever reason, perhaps because they sell so well on their own, full-size pickups really never have much in the way of lease support available on them. All of the current lease programs on these trucks are fairly unattractive, but if I was forced to pick the one that I thought was the best I would probably say the Chevrolet Silverado. Even with this truck, it is probably much better to take advantage of General Motors' special financing program instead of leasing it.

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CarMan@Edmunds · May 2002

Hey clpurnell. I am glad that you enjoy this section of the Town Hall so much. As I have mentioned before, I am a big fan of the new Infiniti G35 and I commend you for looking at it. If you were to lease a new 2003 G35 with leather through Infiniti Financial Services this month for 3 years with 12,000 miles per, their base lease money factor and residual value should be .00260 and 55%, respectively. If you were to lease a 2002 Infiniti I35 through IFS for 3 years with 12,000 miles per, their base lease money factor and residual value for the month of May should be 0.00243 and 52%, respectively. As one might expect, Infiniti is not providing any cash incentives on the 2003 G35 this month, but they are providing $1,000 dealer cash on the 2002 I35 that may be used in conjunction with the IFS lease program.

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jdb92626 · May 2002

I have the following deal ready to go for a 2002 Maxima SE, 6 sp 39mo/15K yr miles lease:

net cap cost: 23,830
driveoffs: $1000.58 (629 lic. fee and first pymt)
residual: 49%
money factor: 0.00245
payments: $394.28 (includes tax)

Any thoughts on the quality of this deal?

Also, aside from cap cost what types of items are negotiable? Are there other programs anyone knows of that would make it better (i.e.; rebates, incentives, etc.) There are so many misc fees involved it would be nice to find out what can be brought down.

Thanks

michaellno · May 2002

OK, I've been in touch with a local Honda dealer. Here's what they've got:

2002 Accord EX (5-speed)
MSRP 21500
Cap Cost 20440
Residual 55% (3 years, 15k/year)
Money Factor .00145 (up from .00135 since they are waiving the security deposit)
$0 out of pocket to start lease

My calculations come up with about $282/mo, while the dealer is quoting $304/mo (both before tax).

I've asked him to explain the difference, but I thought I'd come here and see what you thought.

One question I have concerns the destination fees. They are $460, according to Honda's (and Edmund's) web sites. Do I add this into the MSRP to calculate the residual? I can't imagine that it would translate into a $20/mo difference.

What do you think?

footie · May 2002

Generally, the destination fee is included in the MSRP. It should be on the sticker above the 'bottom line'. If you added it to your deal, it adds to both MSRP and Cap Cost, assuming a fixed priced discount. Your lease would be $292 by my spreadsheet.

Math is math. The only way the dealer can get to a higher number other than what you and I came up with, is to increase some combinations of msrp, capcost and/or money factor.

Perhaps the dealer is really using .002, which drives a $303.45 / mo lease

Here's what I got using .00145...

MSRP $21,500
Capitalized Cost $20,440
Acquisition Fee
Security Deposit
Capitalized Cost Reduction
Total Payment Due at Lease Signing* $0
Residual Percentage 55%

Residual Value after 3 years $11,825.00
Term Depreciation $8,615.00
Interest Rate 3.48%

Money Factor 0.00145
Monthly Lease Rate $46.78
Number of months 36
Monthly Depreciation $239.31
Total of Depreciation and Lease Cost $286.09

bobw92 · May 2002

I am ordering a Honda Pilot. Is the Honda Finance Corp. lease the way to go or are the third-party lease companies better? Is the money factor negotiable with Honda? So where would be the best place to lease it (36 months, 12K miles or less per year) and what payments could I expect with 0 down? Thank You, Bob

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