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Comments
I am not too worried though. I have had several cars that I have never clayed and they held up well with my old wax/polish caretaking techniques. I am sure they also had rail dust and that never seemed to cause a problem.
I am curious as to what other Car makers are saying....
ROTFLMAO!
I have to agree with emaison. First of all, this bulletin seems to have come out in 1999. It covers cars/trucks from 1996-1999. Under the section- ACTION- it says not to polish, compound, repaint, color sand etc. UNTIL this "chemical bath" is given to the car. Don't you think it's a LITTLE too late for the people who own the 1996-1998 vehicles?
Secondly, before I ever heard about rail dust and clay, I just waxed/polished my cars like I have always done. I never saw any deterioration in my paint. Then again, I don't keep my cars for years and years. I think if you wash and Zaino frequently, you'll have no problems.
Bushwack-
Now your Z application has just gotten easier because you can eliminate Z1 each and every time! ;-)) I'm really surprised you did this because you are one of the "old timers" here in TH. How'd that happen? Directions, directions, just like car manuals, are very important! ;-))
Anyway, it hasn't hurt your finish! Maybe it's made the Z2/Z5 "stick" better! ;-)) Looking forward to more pics.
fastdriver
Except for this - - about 40 odd posts back, i mispoke about "no need to dawn wash to remove zaino prior to claying". I do indeed know that dwan wont remove zaino, it was just my fingers engaged and english skills in park. - -sorry for that poor thought . . .
For the first year - i too applied Z1 everytime.
D'OH .
Im better now . . . .about 30-35 coats this year and only 3 Z1....
I have a 2000 MB E320 with a brilliant silver finish, and it hasn't been clayed either. But its paint has that deep wet look, thanks to many coats of Z-2 over the past 15 months. Having it garaged and mostly out of the sun and elements helps, but I drive it regardless of the weather, and a rainstorm actually provides what's close to a free wash. Some day I might clay it, but not until the paint stops feeling silky smooth to the touch. Just my 2 cents worth!
If everything in that bulletin is true then the vehicle manufacturer should make it required practice for the dealer to use the ABC system on all pre-delivered vehicles for no charge to the customer. In fact, I bet if you telephoned local dealers and said you had embedded contaminants and raildust in your paint, most, if not all would tell you that they remove it using clay.
I'll admit that I do not like the Director of Sales & Technical Services for AI. He has used words like "overpriced snake oil" to describe Zaino and has stated that if you applied Nufinish following the Zaino directions that you would get the same results.
darbh: You must be spending lots of time on the autopia-carcare.com forum. Most of those guys hate Zaino and say Zaino gives an "artificial, plasticy, cheap shine." When in reality, Zaino gives a near optically perfect finish similar to what a freshly applied clear coat layer looks like.
joebob: I have been on that site once. I am not aware of their opinions. Odd that they would think the Zaino shine is "cheap." I am sensitive to gimmicky things, things that substitute show for substance. It never occurred to me that there was an "additive" quality to Zaino. I just thought the paint looked great and deep. Rather than looking like I am "adding" something to the paint, each application just makes it look clearer.
I now have eight coats and am adding one a week. Each coat makes it look better. Does anyone have a view on when meaningful improvement stops?
I hit that point at about 6 or 7 coats of z5/z2, and that's on a new, black Lexus.
You should be about there.
"I used acid bathes years ago before Clay was available. I was never happy with the acid treatment, besides the fact that the acid was dangerous and nasty to work with...
Dealerships also used acid bathes with little success. The rail dust reappeared in as little as 1 to 3 months... which told me, the rail or brake dust was never completely removed by the acid treatment... If you had a splinter in your hand, would you remove it with acid or a tweezer? Get the picture?
Rail dust is like tiny slivers or splinters in the paint surface. The Clay will pull them completely out... the acid bathe would only dissolve what was above the paint surface... but what was left in the paint surface would start to oxidize and rust.
Based on my 30 years as a custom painter I have found (that) Clay will definitely and positively remove rail dust... better than any acid treatment... Call any new or used car dealership and ask them what they are using to remove rail dust.... Betcha they are using a Clay product."
Personally, I would recommend the ABC system and find Ron very informative.
http://www.nsxsc.com/nsexcitement/waxtest.html
An excellent test, and surprisingly, pretty scientific.
Where do I find the info I need to determine that Zaino is the right choice, instructions for both cars, and where to buy? I'm sure that the info is embedded in all the posts, but 2000 plus posts in part 2 is pretty intimidating.
thanks
Mike
If you are plannig on investing the time I would suggest using a claybar first and then evaluating the paint condition.
If you want to expend the time and energy you could use a product like 3M 39009 Swirl Remover. Some Bug and Tar remover product might be useful for some areas.
Since the car has not been waxed in over a year, I bet she will be happy with a thorough Dawn washing and a coat of Z1, and (Z2 or Z5).
All the information you are requesting is there including how to buy it.
Whether Zaino is "the right choice" only you can decide.
I would suggest Z1 and Z5 if the cars are daily drivers as the minimum for your first time purchase.
Z1 is a required first step. I like Z5 the best because it is non-abrasive(as are all the paint finish products)and has filling capabilities for swirls and minor scratches which is great if your car is a daily driver. Z2 is said to have higher optical properties but IMHO the difference is minimal.
Z6 is an optional Gloss enhancer that helps increase the gloss and can be used as a quick detailer that is compatible with the Zaino polishes.
The Z16 claybar is optional but I would strongly recommend it for good surface preparation.
Even though you don't like to read I would highly suggest reading some of the posts and the instructions, tips on the Zaino website because applying thin coats is very important when using Zaino products.
I have had no swirl marks that I can find going about applying in this method. There are others on this board far more knowledgeable and critical of Zaino products and its results then I am. But with that said,...
I use 100% cotton towels to apply AND wipe off Z products. When applying Z1 & Z2, do a light spritz of Z6 (you forgot to order Z-6!!) on your towel (applicator). When applying Z-1 & Z-2 on your roof and hood, apply lightly (and I do mean lightly as in juuuuust enough coverage so you can tell something is there) using a back and forth motion (no circles). On the doors, apply Z going up and down (details as to why this is a preferred method is mention on the Zaino site <http://www.zainobros.com/>
Once dry (a one hour to a few hours depending on your climate), using the same back and forth/up and down motions, wipe off Zaino using little to moderate pressure. Then apply Z-6 to get that extra ooomph out of your shine. Z-6 is also great for touch up on a daily/semi-daily basis once you've first wiped off unseen dust .
That's it in a nutshell. Of course, I didn't cover claying, frequency of applying Z-2, Z-6 or if you should start out w/ Z-5 before going to Z-2. Hopefully those (listen up fastdriver, mbdriver, etc) whose wisdom I have seeked at times will fill in what I have forgotten to mention
...and as always, Sal Zaino is just an e-mail away (he answers his e-mail promptly!).
.
http://www.nsxsc.com/nsexcitement/waxtest.html
I don't sell waxes or polishes, I did this to settle the battle of the Z's once and for all.
Bill
As an added incentive to have your cars look like this- click here and on my name above and check out the pics!Click on where it says slideshow and then click play.
Click here too to see this site:
http://www.nsxsc.com/nsexcitement/waxtest.html
This page is also a good source of info from Chris Parrish. http://www.geocities.com/MotorCity/Flats/6021/zainofaq.html He was a great source of info here years ago until some know-it-all showed up dispensing incorrect/inaccurate info and drove Chris out. His e-mail link is up to date.
The above pics are the latest. For some reason, photopoint.com has been out of commission since Friday. I have a strange feeling that they are history! I certainly hope I'm wrong because I have a ton of pictures there AND I paid for a 1 year membership!
Anyway, the advice on Sal's website and what Bushwack has provided above should get you on the road to a winning shine and a big smile on your face when you see the results. ONE KEY thing is- apply Zaino SPARINGLY- you will BARELY see it when you apply it. Also, do not, like any wax or polish, apply it during times of high humidity or it will take forever to dry.
I'll be checking back here all the time if you need more info or just e-mail me.
Hope this helps.
fastdriver
-Larry
Many messages ago (around #2000?), I commented on my smearing problems. Well I solved them! I changed detergents. I am now using "ALL - Free" detergent and my results are great.
nokuy2001
As a newer Z convert my suggestions are:
-use the claybar. Do the dawn-clay-dawn.
-get the best 100% cotton towels you can buy. Royal Velvet is what I use. Get at least 2 big towels, and two hand towels.
-Wash the towels (with a fragrance free and dye free detergent!) before your first use.
-write out the exact steps you will do prior to your first application. I found the directions to be a little vague. Personally I work better when I follow a consise set of instructions. If you want my instructions let me know.
-Use the cotton applicators (or small towels) to apply Z.
-Use even less Z than you think you should. Now use even less than that. You dont need to use much at all. You should barely see it being applied.
Good Luck
"What intrigue! Spymasters, imposters and espionage. Is it safe to post at this topic?"
LOL.... Gee, I thought the ONLY Intrigue here was a Zainoed Oldsmobile Intrigue! Looks like I was wrong! Actually, I have heard of people posting pics of cars that they said were theirs until the REAL owner happened to come across them. Funny, no one ever tried to copy pics of my "beloved" Christine(99 Chrysler 300M)when I owned her! Guess no one else wanted to admit that they really paid for that thing! ;-))
fastdriver
Glad that you both solved your smearing problems. Key thing is- less is better. Guess changing detergents isn't a bad idea either.
fastdriver
By the way, Joebob6, that RSX test you posted is great. Did you sent a link to Sal?
Again, we should all thank fastdriver, pj, joebob, and the rest of the crew. And some of the "hosts" here at TH really should be ashamed of themselves.
So nice to still have some "old-timers" here! ;-)) Glad you had a nice vacation.
The only thing that got me "steamed" was the PROJECT they seemed to be making over changing the name of this topic. As it turned out, it was NOT complicated at all! They changed the name, everyone was STILL subscribed to the topic and no one had to make any new bookmarks to access it! SIMPLE! Of course, it took a few tries to get the name right! LOL... All is good now.
Did you see my latest pics above at ofoto.com? Something VERY strange is going on with photopoint.com. I have not been able to access them since last Friday. Some people in my acura-cl.com board say that they were off line all last week! I searched all the tech news sites this weekend looking for any articles about photopoint, but with no success! This morning I called CNET in Boston since the CA office wasn't opened yet, but they didn't have any info. I even tried calling photopoint- 415-248-5140 in CA, but I guess they're not open yet OR no one is there! I did get an answering machine and tried to leave a message, but the leave a message thingy wasn't working. I have already called my credit card company about the $19.95 charge on my MasterCard. They told me to fill out the dispute form on the back. I will do this as soon as I can find out if they are out of business or just having server troubles. I would think that they would have tried to contact us somehow if they were having server problems. Methinks they are probably in Chapter 11 after taking everyone's money! I hope not because I have a ton of pics there! I should have suspected something when they dropped the company that was doing those SmashCast movies! That was a great feature. I also e-mailed them this weekend to see if they know anything about photopoint. Also contacted CNN via e-mail. Nothing yet, but I'll get an answer soon.
A beautiful day here in CT to Zaino the car again. Of course, there are plenty of OTHER things I should do around here, but there's plenty of time for those things. Have to Z when the humidity is down. Don't know how much longer this fantastic, "dry", sunny weather is going to continue here.
I should e-mail Sal too. I want to know if he has any date yet for the new Z stuff he's coming out with. Multiple coats in one day is the way to go since it's so easy to do! ;-)) The hardest thing about Zaino is the bending and stooping! Makes these old, tired, out of shape muscles ache just a little!
Take care.
fastdriver
I just ordered a low garage seat with wheels from Autosport. It has not arrived yet, so I have no report, but it should help with all the bending needed to get the sides of the car and the bumpers. I got the "cheap" model for about $75; it better be good. (They have one that adjusts up and down, and it costs more.) I looked for parts to build my own, but went this route anyway. Or you could get a creeper and put a few cushions on it and try that.
Even with all the bending, the Z finish is worth it, isn't it? Imagine how difficult it would be if you had to rub and buff wax; I'm way too old for that.
LOL.. I hear you. You should have gone to Home Depot- bought a few wheels, a piece of plywood and some foam rubber and made your own. I'm sure it would have been cheaper then $75.00.
Anyway, you're right. The bending and stooping is definitely worth the effort when that Zaino shine appears!
fastdriver
I was at Home Depot, and they have some nice wheels for $5.00, and I may still do that. I suspect that the thing I ordered may be too high, and if I'm still bending over from the seated position, I have not accomplished much. If so, I'll send it back and I'll have to eat the postage.
I did what you said may years ago and built my own creeper for about $10.00, and may just do that again, as a few cushions on a creeper may be all that I need.
Stay tuned.
Bill, thank you. Ya see, lancerfixer is one of those good people who think that washing and maintaining a car's exterior is a silly waste of time. So be it, different strokes for different folks, yada, yada, yada. Or is it that he simply thinks we "Z" fans have gone over the hill and become "Zeolots". As in Fanatics, as in unbalanced. Such fanatics can't be objective 'cause they're 'true believers'. Then you come along and ruin his theory with an objective test. Shame. Fun spoiler! 'Tis better to curse the darkness than light a candle.
I'd go on, but I've just got to take break to apply some more Zaino Z6 on this here computer screen.
LOL... That's what I do! NO sleeping though!
Hey- just found a NEW pic site WITH SmashCast movies like photopoint USED to have! Just making a new Zaino/Acura CL-S movie now. Will post the link in a few minutes. All FREE too! http://www.cartogra.com Stay tuned for the movie link!
fastdriver
Thanks for your help and everyone elses help. It sounds like the most important part of applying the wax is to apply it very thin. If you could e-mail the instructions or post them I would appriciate it. I am like you if I have something to follow it is easier. Thanks alot Marty
My e-mail adress is NOKUY2001@msn.com
fastdriver
Fastdriver and I aren't young any more, which I presume you are from both your name and your unstated assumption that getting up from the floor is just as easy as getting down there. You will find out, some day, what we are talking about.
In the meantime, we will continue to look for devices with wheels on the bottom, until we hit that last transportation device that has no wheels, and which takes us all to "box city."
By the way, that test link (Zymol vs Zaino) is great.
It certainly indicates to me that the difference is obvious, and that does not even count ease of application and ease of upkeep.
My guess is that the difference between Zaino and the best wax out there is a lot greater than between that wax and average wax.
By the way, what is a polymer? I'm not a science guy, so I really am not sure what that means.
It certainly indicates to me that the difference is obvious, and that does not even count ease of application and ease of upkeep.
My guess is that the difference between Zaino and the best wax out there is a lot greater than between that wax and average wax.
By the way, what is a polymer? I'm not a science guy, so I really am not sure what that means.
I have NO control over how fast the pics change. There is also no control as to how the pics fade in/out. It's still a cool site though. Expect more pics soon! ;-))
I like the wax/polish test page too. I suggested to someone in the acura-cl.com board to post it at that OTHER topic! ;-)) I would, but the way things seem to be going around here, I'd probably be banned for life! Been here too long for that to happen now!
pjyoung-
44 and you're having "trouble" bending and getting up?? Now I don't feel too bad. I have you beat in the age category! Like I always say- you're only as old as you FEEL!
fastdriver