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  • CarMan@EdmundsCarMan@Edmunds Member Posts: 38,514
    Hi cennis1. Check back with me on Monday, I should have the details of Audi's latest lease program by then. Thanks.

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  • CarMan@EdmundsCarMan@Edmunds Member Posts: 38,514
    Hey bradlake1. Like with many of the other programs that I just mentioned, I suspect that I will have had an opportunity to check out Saab's September numbers by some time early next week. Please check back with me then. Thanks.

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  • CarMan@EdmundsCarMan@Edmunds Member Posts: 38,514
    Hello bosbear. Pre-paid leases can be great deals in many instances. I hesitate to comment on the tax aspects of this deal, because tax laws vary from area to area, but in terms of the interest rate you will be getting this pre-paid Navigator deal looks great. This is especially true in today's uncertain times when interest rates are low and the stock market isn't doing very well. Tying up this amount of money is not nearly as difficult a decision as it may have been back when interest rates were much higher and people were making a minimum of 10% to 15% a year in the stock market.

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  • cennis1cennis1 Member Posts: 31
    I hear all the time that you should NEVER put money down on a lease, and have been trying to figure out why people say this. Nobody ever seems to give a reason, just a blanket statement. Seems to me that the total amount you pay over the length of the contract will be exactly the same.

    I have been thinking of doing just that, putting maybe $5,000 down to keep the payments lower. Given that money markets are paying like 1% these days the "invest the difference" theory doesn't make too much sense to me.

    The only reason that I have heard suggested that makes any sense is what happens if the car is totalled or stolen. So, what does happen. Do you lose this money or do you get the difference between the payoff and what the insurance company pays?

    Otherwise, can someone please explain why you should never do this?
  • cfg1cfg1 Member Posts: 85
    I think the logic is something like this. Mr. X leases a $20,000 car. He puts down $5,000. His payoff is $15,000. One year later, his payoff is down to $14,000. He totals his car, the value is $16,000. He gets 2,000 ($16,000 - $14,000) from the insurance company. Mr. X has lost $3,000.

    Mr. Y leases the same car with $0 down. One year later his payoff is $19,000. He totals his car, and he is upside down $3,000 ($19,000 - $16,000), but gap insurance pays this. So he loses nothing.
  • clpurnellclpurnell Member Posts: 1,083
    It would go like this.

    Mr X puts down 5k The car gets totalled the bank owns the car and gets the 2k and it is in their sole discretion to give you anything. so if you had bought the car you would receive 2k back but if you lease you get nothing because you have no ownership rights. Think of it as if you totalled a rental. Would you expect any of your rental fee to that point back?
  • cfg1cfg1 Member Posts: 85
    Yes, I would. If I rented a car for a week and it got totaled on the first day, I would expect another car for the rest of the week.

    Of course, I would have to pay for the damages if the accident were my fault.
  • clpurnellclpurnell Member Posts: 1,083
    maybe I phrased that wrong would you expect the rental company to pay you because the car is worth more than you owe. With leasing that is basically what you are doing renting. So any down payment reduces monthly payments and that is it does not reduce residual or give you equity as in a buy.
  • cfg1cfg1 Member Posts: 85
    It doesn't reduce the residual, but it does reduce the payoff.

    So the day before the accident, Mr. X could have walked into the leasing company with a check for $14,000 and bought the car. The day after the accident, he walks into the leasing company with a check for $16,000 from the insurance comany. Why does he lose his right to buy the car for $14,000, just because the car was totalled?
  • martywrightmartywright Member Posts: 1
    the dealer is being vague as usual about the rental charge

    the residual is 70% for 36 mos 12k miles
    money factor is .00295 (or so)
    the price (haven't negotiated yet) is $66529.00

    What would my payments be? with 5k toward residual, and 7500 toward residual.
    Can you give me the formula to figure out the rental charge?
  • footiefootie Member Posts: 636
    Residual isn't the buy price until all of the lease payments are made -- or least that portion of the lease payments that comprise the difference between the negotiated price less down payment less residual.

    What the lease company is owed by the insurance company is the fair market value of the car the point in time that it is totalled.

    At least this is how I look at it. But deals may vary! Read the T's and C's.

    Regards
  • tguerinotguerino Member Posts: 22
    Looking for the residual and money factor for a 2003 BMW 540i (both the 6 speed and the automatic. Thanks for all your help.
  • lef4tylef4ty Member Posts: 3
    Should there be additional fees associated with a lease in comparison to financing? Besides the title and registration fees, what else should I expect (doc fee, acquisition fee, dealer prep fee, etc.)

    How can I determine which fees are really carged by the leasing company and which are made up by the dealer? I am specifically looking at leasing a Infiniti G35.

    Thanks
  • CarMan@EdmundsCarMan@Edmunds Member Posts: 38,514
    Hi cennis1. The reason why I usually tell consumers not to make large down payments when leasing vehicles is that if their vehicle is totaled in an accident or stolen and never recovered, their insurance company will pay the bank that you are leasing it through the value of your vehicle, but your down payment essentially disappears. As one could imagine, if you were to make a $5,000 down payment on your leased vehicle and some random person were to smash into you totalling it a few weeks later, it would be very disappointing to have that $5,000 vanish.

    Also, down payments on leases are only used to reduce the amount of interest that you will pay over the length of your lease. The money that one puts down when they are leasing a vehicle does absolutely nothing to establish equity in it. As a result whether you don't put any money down or were to put $10,000 down, your lease-end purchase price of the car or truck that you are leasing will be exactly the same.

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  • CarMan@EdmundsCarMan@Edmunds Member Posts: 38,514
    Hello Martywright. Excellent choice in vehicles. I have always liked the CLK. How do you like the new 2003 version compared to the 2002? I haven't had an opportunity to play with an '03 much yet. Although I have not seen the September lease program from Mercedes-Benz yet, I can tell you that they really were not providing any sort of lease support on the 2003 CLK in August. If you would like, please feel free to check back with me in a few days. By then I should have had an opportunity to check out their new lease program and would be happy to give you an idea of what the numbers are like. Talk to you then.

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  • CarMan@EdmundsCarMan@Edmunds Member Posts: 38,514
    Hi tguerino. I have not seen BMW's September lease program yet. Please feel free to check back with me in a few days and I would be more than happy to let you know what I have been able to find out. Thanks.

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  • CarMan@EdmundsCarMan@Edmunds Member Posts: 38,514
    Hi lef4ty. The only fees that are associated with leases, but not finance contracts, are an acquisition fee (sometimes known as a bank fee) and a security deposit. The amounts of these fees will vary from bank to bank, but generally speaking, the acquisition fee is usually equal to between $400 and $500 and is not refundable and the security deposit is usually equal to your vehicle's monthly lease payment rounded up to the nearest $25 or $50 and is refundable at the end of your term. Specifically, in your case Infiniti Financial Services (the bank that you likely will be leasing through) has a lease acquisition fee of $450. Of course, in addition to the aforementioned fees, at the end of your term if you have exceeded your mileage allowance or if your vehicle is in rough shape, you may be responsible for wear and tear or excess mileage charges.

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  • lef4tylef4ty Member Posts: 3
    Carman,

    Thanks for the assistance on the lease questions. I'mm also trying to find the september money factor and residuals for a GS 300 with 39/12000 mile lease. Since the September numbers have already been out for a week, is there anywhere on the web to find this info instead of constantly bothering you. :)

    Thanks!
  • jefepro2jefepro2 Member Posts: 16
    Could you please post the 2003 Toyota Tundra SR5 V8 and 2003 Nissan Pathfinder LE for 12k miles and 39 months. I live in Missouri. Thanks

    Jeff
  • gfelkergfelker Member Posts: 26
    Carman--
    you said check back monday for the 2003 audi a4 1.8t with quattro: mf, residual, etc. for 36 mos, 12K miles, in North Carolina.
    thanks as always!
    Mike
  • ogbuffguyogbuffguy Member Posts: 42
    i would like to know the lease rates for an Audi 1.8T Quattro, BMW 325ci and 330ci, and Mercedes C320, i dont know what car to choose, so i am going for the one with the lowest lease rate (hopefully its a better investment) i live in southern CA for a 36 month and 15k/miles a year, thanks a lot for your help!!
  • gfelkergfelker Member Posts: 26
    I'm not sure I would characterize the lease of a car as an "investment"..since all you are really doing is paying for the use of a car and not establishing any equity...of course, cars are depriciating assets anyway so I don't think I would consider any car purchase an investment!
  • pgullopgullo Member Posts: 5
    Im about to pick up my 2002 odessey ex from my local dealer in NY on long Island. I am looking to lease for 36 mos at 12k per. The dealer is offering a 39 mo lease also. Any info? Thanks
  • tguerinotguerino Member Posts: 22
    Looking for the residuals and money factor on a 2003 BMW 540 (6 speed and automatic) with either 10k or 12k miles per year. While you are looking, can you please provide same info on the 2003 BMW 530. thanks in advance for your information.

    Tony
  • ogbuffguyogbuffguy Member Posts: 42
    i meant "investment" as in managing my money, also i'll get most of my money back anyways (tax deducatable...hehe)
  • CarMan@EdmundsCarMan@Edmunds Member Posts: 38,514
    Lef4ty, I am not aware of any place on the Web that provides this sort of information to consumers. I tell you what, I will send you an e-mail to the address in your profile as soon as I have seen the latest Lexus numbers.

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  • CarMan@EdmundsCarMan@Edmunds Member Posts: 38,514
    The same offer stands for jefepro2, gfelker, ogbuffguy, pgullo, and Tony too. I will send the all of you e-mails as soon as I have the information that you are looking for. I should have it shortly. Talk to you soon.

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  • cennis1cennis1 Member Posts: 31
    You also suggested I check back this week.

    Looking to lease an A4 in Colorado in September. Would probably opt for whatever offers the best terms (2002 v 2003, 3.0 v 1.8t, 12k v 15k miles, etc.) so the more info the merrier.

    That said, if that involves too much work on your part, I would say the most likely would be a 1.8t quattro 5-sp, 3 year, 36,000 mile lease. Anyway, that seems to be a "basic" lease and I think I could ballpark if the numbers make sense if I decided, for example, that I wanted 15,000 miles per year.

    Whatever you can do will be greatly appreciated.
  • bradlake1bradlake1 Member Posts: 48
    Carman:

    Hope this finds you well. Checking back with you about lease terms for a 2002 Audi Allroad. We live in Atlanta and are anticipating a 15K mi / 48 month term. The dealer continues to tell me he is getting huge assistance (from Audi Financial) to move this vehicle. The selling price maybe ~$40K. Thanks!
  • tcohntcohn Member Posts: 1
    I noticed that Suzuki is offering some lease incentives that I do not notice in the "Incentive & Rebates" section. Suzuki has a $299 lease on the XL-7 advertised on their website at: http://www.suzukiauto.com/specials/lease_specials.html


    carman - would you know what the MF and Residual is on this lease?


    This lease deal is for the XL-7 limited, I would be interested in the 4WD Plus model with automatic - would these number be the same?


    Thanks for any help!

  • CarMan@EdmundsCarMan@Edmunds Member Posts: 38,514
    Hi cennis1 and bradlake1. I almost definitely will have the details of Audi's September lease program tomorrow. I will post answers to your questions here then.

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  • CarMan@EdmundsCarMan@Edmunds Member Posts: 38,514
    Hi lef4ty. I was able to find out an answer to your question. Last month if you were to lease a 2002 Lexus G3 300 through Lexus Financial Services for 39 months with 12,000 miles per year, their base lease money factor and residual value should have been .00195 and 55%, respectively. I believe that this program was continued for the month of September. I will let you know if I find out otherwise.

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  • CarMan@EdmundsCarMan@Edmunds Member Posts: 38,514
    Hey Jeff. I was able to find out the lease program for one of the models that you are interested in. If you were to lease a 2003 Nissan Pathfinder LE 4WD through Nissan Motor Acceptance Corp. this month for 39 months with 12,000 miles per year, their base lease money factor and residual value should be .00172 and 54%, respectively. I haven't seen the 2003 Tundra program, yet, but will let you know when I have.

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  • CarMan@EdmundsCarMan@Edmunds Member Posts: 38,514
    Hi tcohn. I should have the lease information for Suzuki in a couple of days. Please feel free to check back with me at the end of the week and I almost certainly will have the info that you are looking for. It is difficult for me to say why the Edmunds.com "Incentive & Rebates" section has not been updated to include this information because I am not involved with that aspect of this site, but you can always check with them by filling out the feedback form on the following page: Edmunds.com Feedback Form.


    Car_man

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  • markhamptonmarkhampton Member Posts: 74
    Hey there Car_man. Thanks for all of the information you have provided in general, and specifically to me over the past year. I've learned a great deal about leasing through this board, and feel much better prepared to negotiate a good deal.

    I've been car-shopping on-and-off for the past year, but for some reason I never take the plunge. A little skittish about the economy, I suppose. Who knows, maybe this car will be the one...

    Anyway, I heard about this great lease deal on 2002 BMW 745s, so I asked my local dealer about it. He gave me these numbers:

    2002 BMW 745i -- base model
    12k mi/year
    36 months
    Money factor: .00215
    Residual: 63%

    Financing is through BMW. When you get a chance to see this month's numbers for BMW, can you verify that these are correct?

    Thanks!
  • jbacurajbacura Member Posts: 4
    Can anyone tell me how much I should expect to pay on a standard 2003 Acura TL, 36 month, 12000 miles/year lease (in Wisconsin)?

    My current lease ends 10/31/02 - how soon do I need to get a deal done to insure I have a new car by that date?
  • probertstxprobertstx Member Posts: 7
    Hi Carman - Been a while since I was here, but since your information saved me hassle on my last lease I thought I'd come back again now it's time for a new one. :)
    I would like MF and Residual info for 24/15 leases on the following:
    2002 Explorer 4x4
    2002 Ranger XLT 4x4 Super cab
    2002 F-150 4x4 Regular cab
    2003 Explorer 4x4
    2003 Ranger XLT 4x4 Super cab
    2003 F-150 4x4 Regular cab
    2003 Expedition 4x4
    Also, if you could give me the figures for a 36/15 lease on the Expedition, I'd appreciate that too.
    The 2003's don't have as good incentives, but I guess lease support could make up for that.
    Thanks,
    Paul
  • carltucarltu Member Posts: 8
    Hi,

    I am interested in leasing 03 BMW X5 3.0

    My local dealer (in NY) told me that only the sale price is negotiable. Once the sale price is determined, the leasing payment is calculated based on it. Is this true ?

    I got a guote for 03 X5 3.0 for total price $40595 (MSRP $41490), 36 month, 15K miles/year, money factor 0.0026, monthly payment $659. $2059 due at sign up. Is this a good deal?

    Thanks for your help.
  • CarMan@EdmundsCarMan@Edmunds Member Posts: 38,514
    You're welcome, markhampton. I am glad that you enjoy visiting this section of the Town Hall so much. BMW does have some fairly attractive lease money factors on the 2002 7-Series right now. However, it appears as though the dealer that you are working with may be trying to mark up this car's base lease money factor a little bit in an effort to bake some additional profit into your deal. During the month of September, BMW Financial Services' base lease money factor for 2002 7-Series models leased for 3 years should be .00195.

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  • CarMan@EdmundsCarMan@Edmunds Member Posts: 38,514
    Hi jbacura. I wouldn't worry too much about hurrying to get a deal done. You should not have any problem if you go shopping for a new TL in early October. There's no reason to have two cars for the last month of your current lease. Acura's lease program for the TL will likely be slightly different during the month of October than it is now. I still would be happy to provide you with the September numbers if you would like though. Either way is fine with me, check back with me in early October for that month's numbers or let me know now and I will give you September's. Talk to you soon.

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  • CarMan@EdmundsCarMan@Edmunds Member Posts: 38,514
    Hi Mike. I have finally been able to find out an answer to the Audi question that you asked me a few days ago. If you were to lease a 2003 Audi A4 1.8T with quattro through Audi Financial Services in the state of North Carolina this month for 3 years with 12,000 miles per, their base lease money factor and residual value should be .00278 and 63%, respectively.

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  • CarMan@EdmundsCarMan@Edmunds Member Posts: 38,514
    Cennis1, here is the answer to the question that you asked a few days ago. If you were to lease a 2003 Audi A4 1.8T quattro through Audi Financial Services in the state of Colorado this month, their base lease money factor and residual value should be identical to the numbers that I just posted in my previous message. The numbers for an otherwise identical lease of a 2002 version of this car should be, .00285 and 52%, respectively. The 15,000 miles per year residual values for both of these cars should be 2% higher than the ones that I just posted. Given the fact that there is no dealer cash support on the 2002 1.8T version of this car, you are definitely much better off leasing a 2003 at this point, unless you can get a killer deal on the '02 price wise.

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  • CarMan@EdmundsCarMan@Edmunds Member Posts: 38,514
    Hey, Brad. Lots of Audi questions this week, huh. OK, if you were to lease a 2002 Audi allroad this month for 4 years with 15,000 miles per, the Audi Financial Services base lease money factor and residual value should be .00245 and 45%, respectively. As you can see, Audi has discontinued their lease support on 2002 models. They have however, introduced dealer cash on many of their leftover '02s. Right now they have $2,000 dealer cash on the 2002 allroad that may be used to reduce the capitalized cost of vehicles leased through their standard lease program.

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  • cennis1cennis1 Member Posts: 31
    The residual for a 15k lease is 2% more than for a 12k mile lease? Shouldn't it be lower?

    I'm confused.
  • jbacurajbacura Member Posts: 4
    Car_Man, thanks for your reply. I appreciate your advice that I don't need to get a new lease done until early October. I would, however, like an idea how much (based on September numbers), I would expect to pay for 36 mo, 12000 miles/year, on 2003 standard 3.2TL.

    Thanks again.
  • question3question3 Member Posts: 1
    I am leasing a 2003 MB E320, I have an option of a 13,000 downpayment. Since the underlying interest rate in 10% I would make sense to pay the lease down. With a 69% residual do I assume any additional risk if the car is totalled or stolen, for example, does my downpayment come before the GAP insurance that is part of my lease, so therefore I am self insuring.
  • bradlake1bradlake1 Member Posts: 48
    Carman:

    You have been great about answering my inquiries. Just this last one....2002 Volvo XC (Cross Country) 48mo / 12k and 15k miles. Atlanta area. This past weekend there were ads discounting the 2002s 6K off of MSRP (but supposedly just for the weekend). I am hoping that there is money available again this weekend. Thanks for any info you can offer.
  • CarMan@EdmundsCarMan@Edmunds Member Posts: 38,514
    OK, Jeff, here is the answer to the second part of your question. Although Toyota's incentives do vary by region, to the best of my knowledge, they are not currently providing any sort of lease support on the 2003 Toyota Tundra anywhere. So if you were to lease a 2003 Toyota Tundra SR5 V8 4WD this month through Toyota Financial Services, you would have to use their base standard lease money factor, which I believe is .00250 and a 39 month 12,000 miles per year residual value of 58%.

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  • CarMan@EdmundsCarMan@Edmunds Member Posts: 38,514
    Hey ogbuffguy. I have finally had an opportunity to take a look at all of the necessary lease programs to answer your questions. In your post, you didn't specify whether you were interested in the 2002 or 2003 versions of these cars, so for now I will assume that we are talking about'03s. Please correct me if I am wrong. If you were to lease a 2003 Audi 1.8T Sedan Quattro through Audi Financial Services for 3 years with 15,000 miles per this month in the state of California, your base lease money factor and residual value should be .00278 and 61%, respectively. An otherwise identical lease of a 2003 BMW 325ci or 330ci leased through BMW FS right now should have numbers of .00265 and 60%. Last but not least, I believe that an otherwise identical lease of a 2003 Mercedes-Benz C320 leased through MBCC should have numbers of .00275 and 62%.

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  • CarMan@EdmundsCarMan@Edmunds Member Posts: 38,514
    Hi again Tony. Here is the information that you are looking for. If you were to lease a 2003 BMW 540i through BMW Financial Services this month for 3 years with 12,000 miles per, their base lease money factor and residual value should be .00265 and 62%, respectively. The 10,000 miles per year residual value for this lease would increase to 63%. This answers the question that you posted a few days ago. If you think of any other questions, please let me know. Have a great weekend!

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