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Lease Questions - Ask Here

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  • gfelkergfelker Member Posts: 26
    Hi Carman--
    Am interested in leasing but have a ? about how to handle my current trade in (worth about 6k).

    I realize that it is better not to make a downpayment on a lease--will most dealers be willing to give you cash/check for the trade-in value rather than apply it against the lease?
    Thanks
    Mike
  • CarMan@EdmundsCarMan@Edmunds Member Posts: 38,514
    Wow you certainly are interested in a lot of numbers, Paul. Let's see what we can do for you. Before I start, keep in mind that Ford's lease rates often vary somewhat by region. These numbers should be the most commonly available. OK, if you were to lease any of these vehicles through Ford Motor Credit right now, their 2 year lease rates should be 4.0% for the 2002 Explorer 4-Door, 6.75% for the 2002 Ranger Super Cab, 10.00% for the 2002 F-150 4x4 Regular Cab, 4.50% for the 2003 Explorer 4-Door, 6.75% for the 2003 Ranger XLT 4x4 Super Cab, 10.50% for the 2003 F-150 4x4 Regular Cab, and 5.00% for the 2003 Expedition 4x4. I can not provide you with residual values for the F-150s, Expedition, or Explorers without more information form you about what trim levels you are interested in, but here are the 2 year 15,000 miles per residual values for the other trucks that you mentioned: 48% for the 2002 Ranger XLT 4x4 Super Cab and 49% for the 2003 Ranger XLT 4x4 Super Cab. If you decide what trim levels of the other trucks you are interested in, let me know and I will see if I can give you an idea of what their residual values should be like.

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  • CarMan@EdmundsCarMan@Edmunds Member Posts: 38,514
    Hi carltu. Technically the only part of a lease that consumers can negotiate is the price of the vehicle that they are getting. However, many dealerships attempt to mark-up their manufacturers' base lease money factors in an effort to bake additional profit into deals. In these instances, if one knows what the base factors are they can also negotiate to make sure that they are getting the best lease terms that are available. In this particular case, it does not appear to me as though your dealership is marking-up the money factor, so you shouldn't have anything to worry about. If you would like to know what sort of deal you are getting, take a look at this discussion that I created a while ago: Car_man "The Return of "How to Calculate Monthly Lease Payments"" Jun 28, 2001 7:15pm . Using the information that it contains, you should be able to calculate exactly what your monthly lease payment on this truck should be. Please let me know if you would like the current BMW FS lease money factor and residual value for this truck.

    Car_man
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  • CarMan@EdmundsCarMan@Edmunds Member Posts: 38,514
    Did I say that the residual value for a 15,000 miles per year lease should be 2% higher than for a 12,000 miles per year lease? If so, I certainly apologize. The lower the mileage allowance is, the higher a vehicles' residual values will be. In most instances 12,000 miles per year leases will have residuals that are 2% or so higher than 15,000 miles per year leases. Sorry for the confusion.

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  • CarMan@EdmundsCarMan@Edmunds Member Posts: 38,514
    You're welcome, jbacura. The easiest way to calculate exactly what your monthly lease payment should be for this car is to use the formula that I posted a link to in post #4503 and plug the following information into it, this car's full MSRP, its Edmunds.com True Market Value (or whatever selling price you expect to be able to negotiate), this' month's 3 year AHFC lease money factor for it of .00220, and their 3 year 12,000 miles per residual value for it of 63%. Please let me know if you have any trouble calculating a payment on it or if you would like me to double check your numbers.

    Car_man
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  • jbacurajbacura Member Posts: 4
    Thanks Car_Man. I followed your directions and FYI came up with a pre-tax lease payment of $387/month. This gives me the knowledge I need to negotiate a reasonable deal.
  • rbm5rbm5 Member Posts: 4
    I am looking into leasing a 2003 Accord EX V6 for 36 months with 12k to 15k miles per year. Do you have the numbers on this car yet?
  • jefepro2jefepro2 Member Posts: 16
    Carman-
    Thanks for following up on the questions for the 2003 Toyota Tundra. I appreciate all the help.
  • carltucarltu Member Posts: 8
    Hi Car_man,

    Thank you for your reply.

    Yes, please send me the current BMW lease money factor and residual value for 03 X5 3.0, 36 or 39 month term, 15K miles/year.

    Appreciate all the help.
  • carltucarltu Member Posts: 8
    Hi Car_man,

    Another question. Does BMW offer any promotion program for leasing and usually when it will be.

    Thanks for your help.
  • gfelkergfelker Member Posts: 26
    Boy, carman, we are killing you with volume!

    Do you know if Audi allows multiple security deposits to lower the money factor, and if so do you know how much it lowers the money factor by?
  • CarMan@EdmundsCarMan@Edmunds Member Posts: 38,514
    Hi question3. First let me begin by saying that no lease through Mercedes-Benz Credit Corp. should have an interest rate as high as 10%, even one on a car as new as the redesigned E-Class. The dealership that you are getting this car from is definitely marking up MBCC's base standard lease money factor in order to bake some additional profit into this car. Their normal base standard factor for a 3 year lease for consumers with good credit is .00314, or around 7.5%. If you make a huge down payment on a vehicle and it is stolen and never recovered or totaled in an accident, that money essentially disappears and the bank that you are leasing through has no obligation to refund any of it to you. Not to mention the fact that this down payment only serves to reduce the amount of interest that you are going to pay over the length of the lease and does nothing to establish equity in the car. Your lease-end purchase option price would be exactly the same regardless of whether you make a $10,000 down payment or none at all. These reasons are why I usually advise consumers against putting so much money down on a leased vehicle.

    Car_man
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  • CarMan@EdmundsCarMan@Edmunds Member Posts: 38,514
    Hey bradlake1. Volvo has done away with all of their lease support on 2002 models, except for the S60. So if you were to lease a 2002 V70 XC through Volvo Finance you would have to use their standard lease program. For the month of September, their 4 year 15,000 miles per standard factor and residual value for the 2002 V70 XC in your area should be .00319 and 43%, respectively. The 12,000 miles per year residual value would be 45%. The reason why there is not any lease rate support on this car (or truck as some people call it) is that they are now providing $3,500 dealer cash on 2002 V70 XC models that may be used with this standard lease program.

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  • CarMan@EdmundsCarMan@Edmunds Member Posts: 38,514
    Hi Mike. Good question. If you want to lease a vehicle without putting any money down and have a trade in, most dealerships will have no problem with cutting you a check for your trade in allowance. Of course, I am sure that there are some dealerships out there that would try to get you to use your trade as a down payment on your lease in an effort to make your deal more confusing and hopefully help them bake a little additional profit into your deal, but most reputable dealers probably won't have any problem with keeping the two transactions separate.

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  • CarMan@EdmundsCarMan@Edmunds Member Posts: 38,514
    That's great, jbacura. Calculating lease payments really is not all that difficult once you know how to do so and have all of the necessary data. Happy hunting.

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  • CarMan@EdmundsCarMan@Edmunds Member Posts: 38,514
    Hello rbm5. Yes, I have seen the lease program for the 2003 Accord. Not surprisingly, Honda is not providing any sort of lease support on the redesigned Accord. However, this car has great residual values. Combine that with the fact that American Honda Finance Corp.'s standard lease money factors are actually very reasonable and this is a decent vehicle to lease. Right now if you were to lease a 2003 Accord EX V6 through AHFC for 3 years with 15,000 miles per, their base lease money factor and residual value should be .00230 and 63%, respectively. Their 12,000 miles per year residual for this car would increase to 65% for this term.

    Car_man
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  • CarMan@EdmundsCarMan@Edmunds Member Posts: 38,514
    No problem, Jeff. I am glad that I was able to help you out.

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  • CarMan@EdmundsCarMan@Edmunds Member Posts: 38,514
    You're welcome, carltu. If you were to lease a 2003 BMW X5 3.0 through BMW Financial Services this month for 3 years with 15,000 miles per, their base lease money factor and residual value should be .00265 and 60%, respectively.

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  • CarMan@EdmundsCarMan@Edmunds Member Posts: 38,514
    Yes, carltu, BMW definitely does provide lease support on its vehicles from time to time. They just introduced their 2003 models, and as a result are not providing any sort of lease support on them yet. I suspect that the vehicles that had support on them as 2002 models will likely have support on them again in a couple of months, but it is difficult to say exactly when this will happen.

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  • CarMan@EdmundsCarMan@Edmunds Member Posts: 38,514
    Tell me about it ;), gfelker. I suspect that Audi does indeed allow consumers to make additional security deposits on leased vehicles to buy down their rates. Most European luxury manufacturers' captive finance companies allow this. However, I do not know what the exact deduction is. I don't see any reason for a dealership to lie to you about the deduction, but if they are not straightforward with you, give me a shout and I will see what I can dig up for you.

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  • ogbuffguyogbuffguy Member Posts: 42
    i went car shopping on yesterday and all the dealers i went to said that the lease factors i got from car_man were wrong??? they were giving excuses that the factors were for people you had the same make in the past(loyalty program??) this was the same for BMW and Audi, while mercedes agreed with my lease factor but they said since my credit isnt up to par (fico mid 600) the lease factor will be higher, 3 different dealers, 2 answers, i believe in car_man and i think these guys are trying to rip me off, but can they raise my lease factor if my fico isnt up to par, i think i have "ok" credit....my score is 672, thatss isnt bad is it??
  • cfg1cfg1 Member Posts: 85
    Carman,

    You advise against making a large down payment on a lease (because you would lose your money if the car is totaled).

    Do you advise against a one-payment lease for the same reason? Is a one-payment lease equivalent to making a giant down payment, or is there something special about them, that you wouldn't lose all of your money if the car is totalled?
  • drewdrew94drewdrew94 Member Posts: 19
    Hello All,

    On a lease is there an credit based finance rate? If I am upside down say $3k-4K on my current car, will the bank roll that over into a lease?
    I am thinking about leasing a 03 Honda Civic EX Coupe for 3.5 years @15K miles a year.
    I am trading in a 99 Mitsu Eclipse Spyder GS with only 22K miles on it, problem is the thing leaks terribly and I can't deal with the smell inside the car!
    I owe about 17.5K on this car (don't ask), so I figured my only chance to get out of this car is to possibly try to lease a civic and hopefully it will also lower my payments as well, I got burnt real bad with an interest rate (there is no chance of refinance, credit is not good enough) on the mitsu not to mention overpaid.
    I am thinking that the mitsu should bring about 13K trade and I am planning to put between 1K-2K down on the civic lease.
    Will I still be in bad shape with a lease? Is a lease the way I should go to get out of this car?
    Please answer these ??'s plus the first two.Thanks. Sorry this got long.
  • luxcar101luxcar101 Member Posts: 1
    I'm going into my second year of my car lease ad due to work related changes it doesn't seem as though I will be able to keep the car. Without risking my credit (which is all I have left now) what can I do to get out of the lease? Is there anything at all (any barely there loopholes) ANYTHING! I'm desperate at this point.

    Thanx,
    Alexis
  • CarMan@EdmundsCarMan@Edmunds Member Posts: 38,514
    Ogbuffguy, the lease data that I provided you with for BMW, Mercedes-Benz, and Audi are definitely 100% correct. These companies are not even running any sort of program that provides lower money factors for returning lessees, nor have they for as long as I can remember. These people are definitely pulling your leg, most likely in an attempt to mark up these cars base lease money factors. Having said that, there definitely is a chance that your credit score does not qualify for these banks' top credit tiers.

    Car_man
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  • CarMan@EdmundsCarMan@Edmunds Member Posts: 38,514
    Although different banks may indeed have different policies on this particular subject, I believe that one payment, or pre-paid, leases are different than leases with large down payments in that consumers will likely get a refund from their bank for the unused portion of their payment in the event that the vehicle is totaled or stolen in most instances. Again, it is definitely best to check with a representative with the bank that you are considering leasing through to make certain, because their policies on this subject may vary.

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  • CarMan@EdmundsCarMan@Edmunds Member Posts: 38,514
    Hi drewdrew94. No questions about leasing are stupid. It can be a very confusing subject for people who are not familiar with it. Let's see if we can answer some of your questions.

    1. Yes, leasing does have an interest rate associated with it. While some banks, like Ford Motor Credit and General Motors Acceptance Corp. use a normal interest rate to calculate lease payments, the vast majority of banks use what is known as a lease money factor to calculate the interest portion of monthly lease payments. This money factor is in the form of a 5 digit decimal, like .00320. One can calculate an approximate interest rate equivalent to lease money factors by multiplying them by 2400. So in the previous example, a money factor of .00320 would be equivalent to an interest rate of right around 7.68%.

    2. Yes some banks will allow consumers to roll negative equity into leases. Exactly how much negative equity is allowed will vary from bank to bank. Some banks will not allow you to finance more than 100% of your new car's full MSRP, while others will allow you to finance 105%, 110%, etc...

    3. It certainly sounds to me as though your lease payments may end up being fairly expensive on a new Honda Civic if you roll quite a bit of negative equity into your lease and your credit is in bad shape. Definitely do not count on getting top dollar for your trade if it smells really bad inside.

    4. I don't know if leasing a brand new car is the best way for you to get out of your current vehicle. Ideally, you would continue to drive it until you are less upside down on it. Perhaps you could take it to a good repair shop and have them fix the leak and then have the interior detailed to hopefully get out the smell. Refinancing your existing high interest rate loan is also an excellent idea. In your post you mentioned that your credit is not good enough to refinance. Well, if it is not good enough to refinance your car at a better interest rate in today's economy where rates are extremely low, then there definitely is a good chance that it is not good enough to lease a new car either. Your least expensive option in this situation is to fix up your car and refinance your note. You may be able to lease a new car and roll some of your negative equity into it, but it will likely be very expensive to do so.

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  • CarMan@EdmundsCarMan@Edmunds Member Posts: 38,514
    Hi Alexis. I am sorry to hear that you need to get out of your current lease. You have a few options in this situation. Before we discuss your options, remember that leases are legally binding contracts in which you the lessee agreed to pay the bank that you are leasing through a certain amount of money over a specific period of time. This bank is going to want all of the money that you are obligated to pay them unless you can find someone else to assume your lease or you sell your leased vehicle and pay them off. If the terms of your deal are favorable, there may be someone out there who would be willing to assume your payments, like a friend or neighbor, or perhaps even someone that you find through one of the Web sites that help consumers who are looking to get out of their leases to meet people who are looking to assume leases. In order to entice someone to assume your deal, you may have to sweeten the pot a little bit by giving them a one time payment or offering to subsidize the lease payment a little bit out of your own pocket. Your other option is to sell your car. In order to do so, you need to call up your the bank that you are leasing through and find out exactly how much money it would cost your to buy your car at this point. Once you have this figure you can either try to sell your leased vehicle on your own or trade it in for close to that number. If you can not get that much money for it, you would be forced to pay the difference out of your own pocket to get out of your deal. Unfortunately, there is no easy way to get out of a lease way before your scheduled termination date.

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  • jbacurajbacura Member Posts: 4
    Car_Man, thanks for your help. Here is the deal quoted by my local dealer:

    Sales Price=$28455, Acquisition Fee=$550, Security Deposit=0, RV=$18572, LRF=0.0024, 36 months, 12000 miles/year, Monthly Payment=$403.99

    I think this looks OK. Agree?
  • cfg1cfg1 Member Posts: 85
    Carman,

    Thanks for the explanation.
  • clpurnellclpurnell Member Posts: 1,083
    Is the TL a type S or does it have Nav. If not you are about $1000 too high on price. If it has nav then that is a good deal and if it is a type s it isa great deal based on selling price.
  • jefepro2jefepro2 Member Posts: 16
    Carman-
    I was looking at another site (carsdirect) who was claiming Nissan is providing dealer incentives in my area for the 2003 Nissan Pathfinder(St. Louis, MO.) I was wondering if you have any more detailed information, as I am not able to find it anywhere else (including this site.) Also did this change any lease information on the 2003 Pathfinder SE for 39 months, 12k?
    Thanks
  • cennis1cennis1 Member Posts: 31
    Dealer is definitely playing games. I just spoke with a dealer who seems pretty honest. Quoted me the EXACT same terms that Car Man posted. Also asked about qualifying for Audi's terms (my FICO is pretty close to yours), his answer was that you either qualify for Audi's program or you don't, the rate doesn't adjust. He says that with that kind of FICO, a good history on auto leases/loans and a good income/payment ratio he doesn't see a problem. Just an FYI.
  • esswebessweb Member Posts: 51
    I am getting 1099 for my second job, if i were to lease a car for $500 a month, is all the $500 x 12 deductable from tax?

    thanks
  • stinkypinkystinkypinky Member Posts: 27
    That's a question for a CPA who specializes in small businesses. Advice given out on an internet message board are worth exactly what you pay for them - nothing.
  • mac_suibhnemac_suibhne Member Posts: 5
    I got above on Labor Day & am worried if I got a raw deal. Problem is that I (first-time) leased it & am clueless as to how to tell. I'm sure the (Texas) dealer didn't do me any favors since he recorded (inflated) the sale price to $33,619 & oh sure, gave me $3,500 too much (over book) for my trade. I guess the fact he booked it (in Sept) as August sale tells you why all the numerical gymnastics - boost August sales, why don't I? Of course I was never told what money factor was used. I did get them to tell me (verbally only) what price I actually paid which was $30,119 with true figure of $12,500 for my 00 Accord SE trade but these figures are not the ones recorded anywhere. Anyway I tried to plug in as close as I could in to the Honda.com lease calculator ($1,500 down, $2,980 net balance owed on trade) & closest I come is $455/month whereas I "negotiated" with them to $485/month. I even plugged in the tax amount, though not the title/license costs. However, part of reason I got 02 was that I was sure there would be a little more negotiating from them as 03 Odysseys were on the way. I was assured that rates from Honda Lease were better than what they would be offering for 03s in a few weeks. I have best credit you can have but it still seems anyone can get an 03 for less/month than I got my 02. I did put down first month which is not really first month as I'm due another in 30 days from purchase date & was waived security deposit (big deal). Did I get screwed?

    Then there's this leasecompare.com - what's up with them? I plugged in same figures & I come out with $375/month?

    Help, anyone?
  • ogbuffguyogbuffguy Member Posts: 42
    can i get lease rates on an 2003 bmw m3 and mercedes c32, 36 months/15k a year, thanks....also car_man and cennis1 thanks for all your help, the dealers were pulling my leg, i did an emailing spree and found some real truthful people...
  • CarMan@EdmundsCarMan@Edmunds Member Posts: 38,514
    You're welcome, jbacura. As I may or may not have mentioned earlier, AHFC's base standard lease money factor for 36 month leases is currently .00220, which is slightly less than the .00240 that you were quoted. However, this may be explained by the fact that you do not have to pay a security deposit on your deal. Many banks will waive lease security deposits in exchange for a slight increase in the lease money factor. The $550 acquisition fee is right on the money. As far as the price of this car goes, you should take a look at the Edmunds.com True Market Value for this model on the Edmunds.com New Vehicle Pricing Pages and also stop by the Sedans Message Board to see what others are paying for similar cars right now.


    Car_man

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  • CarMan@EdmundsCarMan@Edmunds Member Posts: 38,514
    No problem, cfg1. I am glad that I was able to help you out.

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  • CarMan@EdmundsCarMan@Edmunds Member Posts: 38,514
    Hey Jeff. The other Web site that you were looking at is indeed correct. Nissan is currently providing $500 dealer cash on the 2003 Pathfinder, but only on retail units. This cash may not be used in conjunction with their special lease program, but you should be able to combine it with their 0.9% to 4.9% special financing rates. The lease numbers that I provided you for the 2003 Pathfinder for the month of September should still be exactly the same, but again this cash may not be used on leases.

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  • CarMan@EdmundsCarMan@Edmunds Member Posts: 38,514
    Hi mac_suibhne. Unfortunately, there really is not anything that you can do to reverse the deal that you just signed at this point. Rather than worrying about if you got "screwed" use this deal as a lesson and learn everything that you can about leasing and negotiating so that the same thing doesn't happen next time you go shopping for a new vehicle. It is extremely important to be in control of negotiations when shopping for a new car or truck. It is unacceptable for a dealer not to tell you exactly what the full MSRP of the vehicle that you are interested in is, its selling price, and preferably the terms of the lease that you are entering, such as the money factor and residual value. Without these numbers it is very difficult to tell if one is getting a good deal. Remember that there are plenty of dealers out there and you can always walk out if you feel as though a dealer is not being straightforward with you. As far as leasing a 2002 Odyssey versus a 2003 goes, Honda is not providing any sort of lease support on any Odyssey models at this time. So you should be able to use the exact same lease money factors on both the 2002 and 2003 versions of this van. When you take the facts that the 2003 Odyssey will have higher residual values than the 2002 will at this point and that there usually is not much room for price negotiation on any Odyssey into account, it is safe to say that it would probably be less expensive to lease a 2003 Odyssey than a 2002 model right now.

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  • yhariyhari Member Posts: 30
    Carman,

    A couple of questions about Honda's lease company for a csutomer with Excellent Credit.

    1. What fees are typically charged on 2003 Accord leases? Aquisition, Desposal, Security deposit etc.

    2. Residuals and MF for 2003 Accord 4cyl Auto --Lx, EX, Ex with Leather.

    Thanks in advance
    YHARI@YAHOO.COM
  • CarMan@EdmundsCarMan@Edmunds Member Posts: 38,514
    Hi ogbuffguy. I had a feeling that the dealers that you were working with were not being completely straightforward with you. I am glad to see that you were able to find some honest dealers to work with. Here are the answers to your two most recent questions (sweet cars by the way). First, if you were to lease a 2003 BMW M3 Coupe through BMW Financial Services this month for 3 years with 15,000 miles per, their base lease money factor and residual value should be .00265 and 62%. As far as the 2003 Mercedes-Benz C32 AMG goes, if you were to lease this car this month through Mercedes-Benz Credit Corp. for 3 years with 15,000 miles per, their base lease money factor and residual value should be .00314 and 60%, respectively.

    Car_man
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  • CarMan@EdmundsCarMan@Edmunds Member Posts: 38,514
    Hey yhari. If you were to lease any Honda produce through American Honda Finance Corp., you would typically have to pay your vehicle's first month's payment, a security deposit of that payment rounded up to the nearest $25, an acquisition fee of $550, and any sort of down payment that you choose to make at lease signing. Interestingly enough, given its high residual values and the fact that AHFC has very reasonable standard money factors, the 2003 Accord actually makes a fairly good vehicle to lease at this time. If you were to lease one through AHFC this month for 3 years with 15,000 miles per all trim levels would have a money factor of .00230 and the residual values would be as follows: 59% for the DX and LX V6, 63% for the EX, 60% for the EX-L with navigation, and 60% for the LX 4-cylinder.

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  • ogbuffguyogbuffguy Member Posts: 42
    if was i wasnt top tier credit according to the banks, what is the highest base money factor they can give me, or there is no limit??
  • taxattorneytaxattorney Member Posts: 4
    Hey Car_Man,

    Could you please post the money factor and residual for an '03 Audi A4 1.8T CVT (FWD) w/ Sport, Premium, Metallic Paint (I don't know if the options matter) in the Southern California area?

    48 month lease, 12K and 15K miles/year?

    Thanks in advance.
  • bradlake1bradlake1 Member Posts: 48
    Hi Carman:

    I wanted to share with you the lease deal I was able to strike for a 02 Audi allroad (automatic). It has all the options except navi. The MSRP was $46,650. We agreed on a selling price of $41,800. My lease term is 48 mo / 12 mi per. The lease is with Chase and they were offering money factor of .0023 and a residual of 50%. Thank you for all your valuable advice, I felt empowered in my negotiations today. I would appreciate your thoughts about the deal.
  • mac_suibhnemac_suibhne Member Posts: 5
    thanks for your comments, Car_man HOST. May I ask what are the residuals (% and/or $?) on 02 & 03 Odyssey EXL-RES? what would (AHFC I guess?) money factor be for 48 months, 12K & platinum credit? are these data public somewhere?

    given that there's no discounts on Odysseys, what would chances have been of negotiating my trade-in for higher-than-book value to get around the fact that there's no discount off the new vehicle? or does the dealer simply hold all the cards where Odyssey is concerned?

    Is leasecompare.com too good to be true?
  • ct_yankct_yank Member Posts: 10
    Hey Carman
    Here in the tri-state area, there have been many commercials and ads for 2003 Audi lease specials but they give no details. I am specifically looking for a 2003 A4 3.0 Quattro, 36 months, 12/k per year. I live in Connecticut. Can you fill me in on the details (lease rate & residual and any lease cash there might be in this "special" Thanks
  • yhariyhari Member Posts: 30
    CarMan,

    I think I am going to go with leasing a 2003 Accord EX. The residual is just too great to pass up. A few more questions:

    1. Does Honda Finance include gap coverage in their leases?

    2. Are all closed end leases walk away .. THis residual seems extremely high. I guess Honda will eat it when the time comes??

    Thanks
    YHARI@YAHOO.COM
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