Lease Questions - Ask Here

dealmkrjjd · October 2002

Car_man:

Sorry I forgot- 36 months. Also, If they are not offering any lease incentives, do you think I am better off taking a lower finance rate & buying? I can write off a lease through my business. Thanks again!

zachary2 · October 2002

Thanks for all the help to date.

Here is the information for the Pilot:

48 months, 12K, Price: $30,980, cap cost the same.

sandra6888 · October 2002

Thank you for all your help, Car-Man
I do admit I had to read your response a few times in order to completely understand it. Did I mention I am a rookie at this? Anyway, here is the information you requested:
I plan to lease for either 36 or 39 months, my intentions are to purchase the car at the end of the lease, I am a weekend driver in NY so I do not think I would need more than 12,000 miles but what would the cost difference be if I decided to lease with 15K option just to be on the safe side. Another question, what type of money factor can I expect from Nissan?

moelexx · October 2002

Hey Carman, I wrote to you not to long ago about my end of lease Lexus. I would like your thoughts about this situation. My Parents have kept a 1995 Acura Legend (Type II Engine) in there garage undriven since they got it. It has only 5,000 miles, they are willing to give it to me. I was wondering for a car that has been sitting in the garage for almost 8 years, what kind of work would most likely be needed on the car? As always, your knowledge is admired. Thanks for any info you might have

brianmcc1 · October 2002

Car-Man,

I am trying to figure out what (ballpark) I should expect to pay on a 2003 Acura TL with navigation (not typeS)
lease 36mo/15,000yr for (lets just say, because I havent been to the dealer to get a price yet) $30,000 cost. I would like to put a max of 4,000 down.

Any #'s you could provide would be of great help...I am trying to learn all the terms, cap cost, money factor, residual value and what they mean before I go to the dealer. Oh, and I am really hoping to keep my monthly payments in the mid 300's. Hopefully your info will tell me if that is realistic or not. Thanks a bunch!!

Regards,

Brian

tomm14 · October 2002

I had a BK 7 years ago. My FICO score with Equifax is 719, Transunions is 694, Experian is 637 until they fix a mistake then I hope it will be on parr with the rest. Can I still lease a car even though there is still a BK on my report?

CarMan@Edmunds · October 2002

No problem, dealmkrjjd. OK, if you were to lease a 2003 Audi allroad through Audi Financial Services prior to November 6th for 3 years with 15,000 miles per, their base lease money factor and residual value should be .00200 and 59%, respectively. Their 12,000 miles per year residual value would increase by 2%. This money factor is equivalent to an interest rate of around 4.8%. Audi's special financing program on this car currently provides interest rates of 1.9% for up to 36 months and 2.9% for 37 to 60 months. As you can see the financing rates on this model are definitely more attractive than the lease rates at this time. You need to decide whether the tax benefits of leasing are enough to make up for this difference in rates.

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CarMan@Edmunds · October 2002

You're welcome, zachary2. OK, let's calculate a sample lease payment on this truck and see what we come up with. If you were to lease a 2003 Honda Pilot EX-L (MSRP: $30,980 / Cap Cost: $30,980) through American Honda Finance Corp. during the month of October for 4 years with 12,000 miles per, you should have a zero down, pre-tax monthly lease payment of right around $391. So the monthly lease payment that they quoted you for this truck seems to be fairly reasonable to me. The price that you were quoted for the Pilot, full MSRP, isn't even that bad considering that dealers really aren't discounting it right now.

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CarMan@Edmunds · October 2002

Sorry about that, sandra6888. The visitors to this board definitely have varying levels of familiarity with the leasing process. For more information on this subject, I suggest that you check out the following post that I wrote a while back, Car_man "The Return of "How to Calculate Monthly Lease Payments"" Jun 28, 2001 6:15pm and the following articles, Leasing Basics - Edmunds' Do-It-Yourself Guide to Leasing, Leasing Glossary, and The "Residual Value" of Leasing. After reading some of these selections you will be an expert on the subject

. OK, here is the information that you will need to calculate sample lease payments on this truck. If you were to lease a 2003 Nissan Pathfinder SE 4WD through Nissan Motor Acceptance Corp. this month for 39 months with 15,000 miles per, their base lease money factor and residual value should be .00112 and 54%. The 12,000 miles per year residual value for this truck should be 1% higher than the 15,000 miles per residual. If you were to lease an identical 2002 Pathfinder through NMAC the numbers should be .00111 and 50%. However, the '02 Pathfinder is also eligible for $1,000 lease cash that you may use to negotiate a lower selling price. I provided you with the 39 month lease data because NMAC's 39 month program is better than their 36 month program. Let me know if you have any problems calculating sample lease payments on these trucks and I will help you out.

Car_man

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sandra6888 · October 2002

Car-Man, Thank so much for the info. I already had printed these articles before and am in the process of committing them to memory. I have also picked up a few books for more reference.So once I know what the price for the car is I can actually do the math myself. Ballpark figure, if I leased the 2002 truck with the MSVP of 30K with 2k down what should I expect the lease to be?
One last question, Do you know when the $1000 lease cash offer expires?

CarMan@Edmunds · November 2002

Moelexx, congratulations on your windfall. I would love it if someone gave me a like new car for free. I definitely would take this car if I was in your situation. Legends are great cars. In fact, they almost have a cult like following. Acura made a big mistake dropping the Legend nameplate. Prior to doing any extensive driving in this car, I would probably have it checked out by a mechanic. Make sure to either check yourself or have someone inspect any rubber parts on this car, like the hoses, belts, tires to see if they are still in good shape. I also would probably immediately give it an oil change. Obviously it is not ideal to have a car sit virtually unused for 8 years, but if you have it checked out you should be fine. You may want to hop on over to the Maintenance and Repair Message Board and run your situation by them for some additional feedback. Enjoy your "new" Legend

.

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CarMan@Edmunds · November 2002

Hi Brian. You've come to the right place if you are interested in learning about leasing

. First, I suggest that you check out the links to several articles on leasing that I posted links to a little while ago. They contain lots of good information on this subject. Here is a link to this message: Car_man Oct 31, 2002 8:29am . Once you have read that material, you can use the following information to calculate a sample lease payment on the car that you are interested in.

First, let me begin by saying that I personally feel as though one should never make down payments on leases. I say this for two main reasons. One is that if your vehicle is stolen and not recovered or totaled in an accident during your lease, your insurance company pays off the bank that you were leasing through and your down payment essentially disappears. The other reason is that down payments on leases do nothing to establish equity in vehicles, they only serve to reduce the amount of interest that you pay over the life of your lease. So whether you make a $10,000 down payment or no down payment on a leased car or truck, its lease-end purchase price will be exactly the same.

The prices of leased vehicles can be negotiated, just as if you were paying cash for them. The negotiated price for a leased car or truck is called its capitalized cost. The MSRP for a 2003 Acura TL with navigation is currently $31,630. The Edmunds.com True Market Value for this car is $30,083. So this means that you should be able to negotiate a price (capitalized cost) on this car at least as low as $30,083 and probably a little better than that.

Now that you have the MSRP and selling price, the only other items that you need to calculate approximately how much it should cost you to lease this car are its money factor and residual value. If you were to lease a 2003 Acura TL with navigation through American Honda Finance Corp. during the month of October for 3 years with 15,000 miles per, their base factor and residual should be .00220 and 59%, respectively. I don't know what AHFC's November lease program will be like yet, but I suspect that I may know by late next week if you would like to check back with me then.

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brianmcc1 · November 2002

Car Man,

Thanks a lot for your advice. You say

"I don't know what AHFC's November lease program will be like yet, but I suspect that I may know by late next week if you would like to check back with me then."

I plan on leasing in Nov, so I will definitley check back.

The "down payment" I mentioned before is actually the amount of $$ that I hope to get on a trade in for my current car. I pray that they offer me a decent amount for my trade, because I live in the middle of nowhere, and think I'll have a rough time of it if I try to sell a car out here in the boonies. I know it is helpful to apply a trade in value to a car if you are financing it, but is it smart to do it towards a lease?

Last question: Since I have some $$ saved up for a down payment just in case they dont give me a decent trade in value, and you dont recommend I put a down payment on a lease, should I just save that $$ and use it towards monthly payments? The main reason i was going to put a down payment on a lease was that I figured it would look better to AHFC and they would be more comfy leasing to a young guy like me. Perhaps it doesnt matter to financing companies how much i put down?

Sorry if that was as clear as mud...I will read those articles you linked me to as soon as i get a chance.

Regards,

Brian

ct_yank · November 2002

Mike: If you decide to pass on your parent's Legend, drop me an email or respond on this board. I may be interested in buying it.

moelexx · November 2002

Thanks for your response carman, however let me emphasize something, the brand new Legend that my parents are giving me is not free! Although I would have loved that, they are actually going to sell it to me, however they are giving me a really good price...$10,000 I know this car can easily fetch 18K - 20K due to the fact that I see 95 Legends with 50 or 60K miles going for 10K - 12K. So either way, I guess I'm getting a good deal. I'm not getting it until I turn in my GS 300 in December, but I can't wait! Like you, I hear awesome things about this car, especially the Type II engine, which is a little faster than the normal Legends. Carman, your great! thanks again.

moelexx · November 2002

Thanks for your interest in the Legend, I'm just getting out of a 39 month lease on a 1999 Lexus GS 300, so I think I will probably use the Legend for at least a couple of years, it only has 5K miles on it, so it's basically brand new! However, I might be interested sometime down the road in selling it. I know this does nothing for you now, but just to ley you know my state of mind.

rio0 · November 2002

Hi Car man, carsdirect found me an 03 Avant that will be here on 11/17. For a 36months 15k/miles lease, they get me 56% and .00243 with Bank One. Is it reasonable? They told me AFS's money factor for this car is at .00275. Will a sedan get better money factor? If that's the case I might consider sedan instead. Thanks!

superman5 · November 2002

car man ,a question about lease, if i am paying 500 a month, including tax and interest, for lease, and i have one year left. If i want to payoff the lease and purchase the car, I pay the purchase price AND 500 x 12 month payment? is that how much I need to pay to own the vehicle? Or , less since I am paying 1 year early, less interest? or is interest fee is charged no matter how soon you pay off?

drlonline · November 2002

I'm considering the following lease for early next year:
* 2003 Volvo XC 90 2.5T, FWD (due Spring 2003)
* 36 months
* 12K miles per year

Question: Where can one find online values for expected residuals and money factors? I've seen where several software packages that are for sale can provide this, but am curious if the info is out there for free on the internet?

clscflm · November 2002

Car-Man,
Asked a few months back for figures on 2002 Passat when I hoped to get that, but ended up special ordering a 2003. Still waiting, delivery expected just after New Year's. So, a couple of questions as I gear up again: do lease rates change periodically? ie, every month? Substantially? Is it like interest rates that vary with the economy? Will figures I get now be completely off for a lease signed at the end of next month? Does VW include gap insurance or is it something "tacked on" when one asks? (I thought it was automatic to all leases). How much can the numbers differ from top-tier to "near the top" tier? And specifically, am interested in the figures for 10,000 36 month -- and 39 month if offered. Also 12,000 for same periods. As always, thanks in advance for your invaluable help. ClscFlm

dealmkrjjd · November 2002

Car_man:

Thank you for your help on the allroad!

My dad is looking at a 2003 Rang Rover and wanted to know about the leasing rates on such. He is looking at either a 36 month or 39 month lease with 15k per year, and I told him I would check with you and keep his dealer honest. Also, are there any special programs for leases or again might it be better to purchase if they have special APR to buy. I don't know if they have any loyalty $, but he is a current LR owner. Thanks Again.

CarMan@Edmunds · November 2002

You're welcome, Brian. I definitely do not think that it is a good idea to use the money that you get for your trade as a down payment for your lease. I mentioned the reasons why I discourage people from making down payments on leases in my previous post. Here is is again if you missed it:

"First, let me begin by saying that I personally feel as though one should never make down payments on leases. I say this for two main reasons. One is that if your vehicle is stolen and not recovered or totaled in an accident during your lease, your insurance company pays off the bank that you were leasing through and your down payment essentially disappears. The other reason is that down payments on leases do nothing to establish equity in vehicles, they only serve to reduce the amount of interest that you pay over the life of your lease. So whether you make a $10,000 down payment or no down payment on a leased car or truck, its lease-end purchase price will be exactly the same."

If you feel as though you are going to have a very tough time selling your vehicle privately, you should be able to still trade it in to the dealership that you are leasing your new vehicle through and have them cut you a check rather than apply the proceeds as a down payment on your lease. That is what I would do if I was in your situation.

Unlike with conventional loans, banks don't usually seem to care as much whether consumers make down payments on leased vehicles. They usually either approve you or they don't, regardless of the down payment that you make. Even if you are young, you should be able to qualify for a lease through AHFC if you have a good income, your credit is in decent shape, and you have a stable job. I have seen them approve young people who I had doubts about as to whether they would qualify on their own.

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CarMan@Edmunds · November 2002

Ahhhh, I see moelexx. Thanks for the clarification. It is difficult to say exactly how much money the low mileage adds to this car's normal value. If I had to estimate off of the top of my head, I would say $1,500 to $2,000. It still sounds to me as though you are getting a good deal on this car. Just for the heck of it, you may want to hop on over to the Real World Trade In Values discussion on the Smart Shoppers Message Board and see if one of our most knowledgeable community members, Terry, would be kind enough to give you an estimate of the car's value.

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CarMan@Edmunds · November 2002

Hey rio0. I haven't seen Audi's November lease program yet, but I can tell you that CarsDirect was wrong about Audi Financial Services October lease money factor for this car. While it still is not as low as Bank One's money factor, their 3 year factor of .00255 is a lot closer than they made it look. Furthermore, Audi Financial's 3 year 15,000 miles per residual value for this car was 61% in October. As you can see this is much higher than the 56% that they quoted you for Bank One. I personally feel as though the Audi Financial's October lease program was more attractive than Bank One's. I will not know what Audi Financial's November lease program is like until the end of this week, but please feel free to check back with me then and I would be more than happy to give you an idea of what this month's numbers are like. In answer to your second question, both the 2003 A4 1.8T Sedan and Avant have the exact same money factors if you were to lease them through Audi Financial right now.

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CarMan@Edmunds · November 2002

Hey superman5. No you would not have to pay the sum of your remaining payments and your vehicle's purchase price to buy your leased vehicle right now. In order to find out exactly how much money it will cost you to buy your leased vehicle at this time, you need to call the bank that you are leasing it through. The purchase price may be higher than your normal lease-end purchase price would have been because your vehicle is a year newer and some banks have minor early termination fees that they charge their lessees, but it still should cost you less money than it would to pay all of your remaining payments and your normal purchase price. When calling your bank to find out how much money it will cost to buy out your lease, keep in mind that banks are sometimes willing to negotiate on their vehicles' purchase prices. You may find that the person who initially answers your call does not have any authority to work with you, but managers usually do. Of course, there certainly is no guarantee that they will be willing to lower their initial price quote, but it's worth a shot.

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CarMan@Edmunds · November 2002

Hello drlonline. I am not familiar with any source that allows consumers to query what sort of money factors and residual values banks are offering on vehicles. Even the software packages that are available on the Internet will not be able to accurately predict what a manufacturer will do with their future lease programs. Heck, they usually can not even provide accurate information on current lease programs, let alone future ones. I usually am able to find out what current lease programs are like for consumers if they ask me in this discussion. However, most banks' lease programs only run for a month or two at a time, so there is absolutely no way to know what Volvo Finance's spring 2003 lease program will be like on the XC 90 this far in advance. Please feel free to check back with me closer to the time that you will be taking delivery of your new Volvo and I should be able to give you an idea of what its lease program should be like at that time.

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CarMan@Edmunds · November 2002

Hi again ClscFlm. Different banks release new lease programs at different intervals. In this case, Volkswagen Credit usually issues a new lease program every month. There are a couple of factors that affect vehicles' lease money factors. As you mentioned in your post, captive finance companies money factors often fluctuate with normal interest rates. If interest rates in general are rising, then banks' cost of money increases and they in turn will likely raise their rates for consumers. The opposite is usually true if rates are falling. Manufacturers also subsidize their captive finance companies' money factors for many vehicles in an effort to help stimulate consumer demand for their products. There is a very good chance Volkswagen Credit's November lease program will be different than the December program. In order to get an accurate idea of what it should cost you to lease your new Passat in December, it would be best for you to check back with me at the beginning of that month. I don't know if VW Credit leases automatically include gap coverage. In order to find out for certain, you need to ask the F & I person at the dealership that you are working with or contact VW Credit directly and as them.

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CarMan@Edmunds · November 2002

No problem, dealmkrjjd. Your father in certainly interested in a nice vehicle (it sure is expensive though

). If he was to lease a 2003 Land Rover Range Rover HSE through its captive finance company this month for 3 years with 15,000 miles per, their base lease money factor and residual value should be .00285 and 51%. Their 39 month factor would be exactly the same, but the residual value would fall to 49%. This lease program is nothing special, but I do not believe that Land Rover is providing any sort of incentives on the Range Rover at this time. This means that it will likely cost over $1,200 a month to lease one for 3 years.

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digthisxl · November 2002

Hello Car_man,

Do you have the November numbers & incentives for the 2003 Expedition?

Thx,
dig

clscflm · November 2002

I'll check back the second week in December for rates on the Passat!
ClscFlm

superman5 · November 2002

thank you so much car man, you are the man!

CarMan@Edmunds · November 2002

Hey dig. I have seen Ford's November lease program for the 2003 Expedition. How long do you want to lease it for and how many miles per year are you interested in driving? I will need these additional details before I can give you an idea of what this truck's lease rates and residual values should be like. I can tell you that Ford is currently running a dealer volume bonus program on the 2003 Expedition in certain parts of the country that provides dealers with $500 to $1,500 per unit.

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CarMan@Edmunds · November 2002

Sounds good, ClscFlm. Talk to you then.

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CarMan@Edmunds · November 2002

You're welcome, superman5. I am glad that I was able to help you out.

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jefepro2 · November 2002

no one has asked about Toyota 4Runners Lease numbers. So, Carman, if you will, could you please inform me of what a 2003 4Runner Sport 4x4 for 15k / 36m and 12k / 39m- residual and money factor? If there are differences in regions, I am in MO.
Thanks for the service...

digthisxl · November 2002

Hi Car_man.

2003 Expedition 4x4 XLT Value & Popular. 15k miles/yr.

The dealer tells me there is a $1,500 lease renewal bonus for returning Expedition lessees. What I don't understand is how, using this bonus, they expect to draw ppl who drive competitor's makes.

Thanks for any info!
-dig

mtnmike · November 2002

Car_man,

I know that using a down payment is not the best thing to to do when lowering Capitalized Cost. However, how do you feel about putting that money in a savings account and using it to subsidize each month's payment?

For Example we have about $4,000 available, which if applied to reduce the negotiated Capital Cost would lower the lease payment about $110 per month. Would it be better to bank this money, make a little interest, and pull the $110 per month out of this savings account applying it to subsidize (reduce) the higher payment? We are trying to keep our payment down but want to do it the best way possible.

Also anxiously awaiting the November 2003 Honda CR-V LX 42 month Residual and Money Factor for both the 2wd and 4wd.

Thanks

Mike

rio0 · November 2002

Thanks Car man! I didn't buy from carsdirect. This is what happened...

Armed with the numbers that you gave me I ask him to check with AFS and see if you're right. He called back and said that 61% is true but AFS requires me to put a security deposit (equal to one month payment) to buy down the money factor to .00255. I didn't buy that. Anyhow, he back down and we were trying to finalize a contract although I started to think carsdirect is no different than a classic car dealer in terms of sales tactic. In the end, there is a $400 (return Audi customer) rebate that should be applied to the cap cost were left out. He said that the rebate is already calculated in the monthly payment but my work sheet shows otherwise.

Thanks again!

dpedersen1 · November 2002

Does anyone have an estimate of the difference in payments for a lease on a 10K/yr lease vs. a 12K/yr lease. I typically only drive 10-11 per year, so I leased at 10K, but now I am wondering about where the breakeven is on the 0.25/mile if I go over on my 39 month lease. I am in a 2002 Audi A6 2.7T from Audi Financial. $500 or so payment total.

chow3 · November 2002

CAR MAN, Still looking for a minivan or third seat suv. I am interested in the Expedition Popular 2 wd @ 12k per year. I'm in south fla and it seams the deals are only on the value but it has no rear a/c. No very practical. Thanks for the info.

drlonline · November 2002

Car_man, thanks for your reply to my earlier question on residuals and money factors. Another question for you: is there a difference between interest rates quoted for a new car purchase and the interest rate assosciated with lease money factors? I realize not every financial institution does both (lease and purchase loans), but am curious if the rates are normally about the same for someone that does. Thanks.

CarMan@Edmunds · November 2002

Hey jefepro2. As one would imagine with a redesigned model like the 2003 Toyota 4Runner, and I suppose most Toyota models for that matter, there is not any sort of lease support available on this truck at this time. So if you were to lease one through Toyota Financial Services during the month of November, you would have to use their standard lease program. Unfortunately, I have not seen TFS' standard program for November yet. I suspect that I will have had an opportunity to take a look at it by next week. Please feel free to check back with me then and I should be able to give you a much more specific idea as to what the factors and residual values for this truck currently are like. Talk to you soon.

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CarMan@Edmunds · November 2002

Dig, the person who you spoke with is correct. There is consumer cash on the 2003 Ford Expedition, but no lease cash. However, they do have $1,500 owner loyalty cash for current owners or lesees of any Ford product that may be used on leases. In addition to this $1,500, there is an additional $1,000 owner loyalty cash, $2,500 total, for current owners / lessees of Expeditions who upgrade to the new model. Ford has owner loyalty cash on all of its produces, so this is nothing special. Conventional wisdom in the automotive industry says that it is less expensive to retain your own customers than it is to advertise and try to steal your competitors' customers. By providing this loyalty cash, I suppose that Ford is trying to make sure that they they do not lose any of their current customer base.

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CarMan@Edmunds · November 2002

Hi Mike. The scenario that you described sounds like an excellent idea. You would be able to effectively reduce your vehicle's monthly payment by contributing to your normal payments from your other account, but do not risk losing the money that you normally would have used as a down payment.

I don't know if AHFC has this sort of program, but many banks allow consumers to make multiple security deposits on leased vehicle. With each additional deposit that a consumer makes, these banks will reduce the lease money factor that they are charging them by a certain amount. So, if you would make $4,000 worth of additional security deposits on your next vehicle, or whatever the cap is (it's usually up to 9 or 10 additional deposits), you would be able to reduce your monthly payment AND actually get your money back at the end of your term, provided that your vehicle does not have any excess mileage or wear and tear. You may want to check with your dealership's F & I person or with AHFC to see if they offer this sort of program.

I have been able to get a hold of the numbers that you are looking for. If you were to lease a 2003 Honda CR-V LX through AHFC during November for 39 months with 15,000 miles per year, their base lease money factor and residual value should be .00230 and 58%, respectively. Their 48 month numbers for an otherwise identical lease should be .00210 and 53%, respectively. I have not seen AHFC's 42 month numbers for this truck, but imagine that they would be somewhere in between the numbers that I just posted.

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CarMan@Edmunds · November 2002

I am glad to see that you didn't get taken advantage of, rio0. Let me know if you have any other questions and good luck in your quest for a new vehicle.

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CarMan@Edmunds · November 2002

Hello dpedersen1. It is difficult to estimate dollar-wise what sort of difference a reduction in your lease mileage allowance will make to your monthly payment off of the top of my head. However, I can tell you that Audi Financial Services provides a 2% increase in their published 15,000 miles per year residual values for consumers who lease with only 12,000 miles per year and a 3% increase for consumers who only lease with 10,000 miles per year. So essentially there would be a 1% increase in your vehicle's residual value if you were to lower your mileage allowance to 10K. I would be more than happy to tell you exactly what difference this increase in residual value translates to dollar-wise if you let me know the full MSRP and selling price for your car.

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CarMan@Edmunds · November 2002

Hi again chow3. I would be more than happy to give you an idea of what the Ford Expedition's lease program is currently like in most of the country. However, I am going to need you to tell me how long you want to lease it for first. Once I have this additional piece of information I will provide you with the information that you are looking for.

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CarMan@Edmunds · November 2002

You're welcome, drlonline. Yes, there definitely is a difference between the interest rates than manufacturers charge to lease vehicles and the rates that they are providing through their special financing programs. To illustrate, many domestic manufacturers are providing 0.0% special financing rates on certain models right now, but no manufacturer that I can think of has ever provided lease money factors or lease rates that are equivalent to 0% interest. Some have come pretty close to that number, but in the majority of cases, they will provide lease cash and a higher interest rate on leases.

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moelexx · November 2002

Hey Carman, still debating on taking my parent's 95 Acura Legend. My lease on the GS 300 ends in December and my monthly payments were around $650 (including tax). I am also considering another lease, however I'm thinking of a max monthly payment of around $450 with maybe $2,000 down (First month, security, etc). What are some of the "entry level" luxury cars do you think is within my monthly payment range. As always, your knowledge is admired.

mtnmike · November 2002

Car_man,

Thanks!!! as usual "You Da Man"!!!

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