Lease Questions - Ask Here

CarMan@Edmunds · February 2003

Hi vinyljunkie. I would be more than happy to help you out. In order for me to do so, it would be very helpful if you could tell me how long you want to lease your next car for and how many miles per year you need to be able to drive annually without having to pay a lease end penalty. Once I have that additional info, I will give you the program details that you are looking for. Talk to you soon.

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rivertown · February 2003

Thanks, Car_man

I didn't see how it could be big money; but I also didn't see how 'non-negotiable' could be strictly true, either.

Shucks, if it's trivial to the dealership, I'd be happy to have it taken off the car price. LOL.

Thanks, again.

jhk_db · February 2003

I am interested in leasing an Audi A6 Avant with the Premium and Cold Weather packages. I have been discussing a 42 mos lease (12k miles per year) because the salesman tells me Audi has better rates at 42 mos. The stated money factor is attractive at .00075, but I am told the residual is 49% for 42 mos. Is that true? Can you also provide the money factor and residuals for a 39 mos lease? Thanks!

vinyljunkie · February 2003

Carman, first of all, thank you for responding so quickly. I realized last night that I had not listed that information. Sorry.

I would like to lease the vehicle for 3 years with 12000 miles a year.

im_brentwood · February 2003

Tell ya what. The $100 flat that we get paid by one Bank we use for leases on certain models where BMW Financial isnt competitive is yours.

You have to pay us:

$.28 for the lease contract.
$50 flat fee paid to the F&I manager for doing the paperwork.
$18 to FedEx it to them$.20 for the phone call to your insurance company to verify insurance
etc...

But then again, we do actually make a profit on those particular models! (M3, M5, etc..)

Bill

im_brentwood · February 2003

Dunno if you got the bulletin..

But BMWFS is now at .00150 on 325i models. This is nationwide from what I know.

Bill

rivertown · February 2003

That wasn't my point, Bill. My point was that 'non-negotiable' really means partially negotiable, as in the dealer really does have some room, however small, for negotiation - whether he implies differently or not.

Just an example of hooey.

To your point, any bucks you wanna add to my end of the deal are welcome.

vinyljunkie · February 2003

Hey there carman, I am not sure if you saw the response to your question, concerning the length of the lease and mileage. So I sent you a direct e-mail and I will post the question again...

Residual rates for 3 year lease with 12000 miles on the following models:

LX 4-cylinder
LX V
EX with leather 4-cylinder
EX V6 (leather)

I highly appreciate the help and would consider this information truly helpful...

Once again thanks!

You da best!

im_brentwood · February 2003

You asked if certain fees, such as Bank fees are negotiable.

Theoretically you can try and negotiate anything. But the Bank fee, unless a dealer marks it up, which, in reality, is quite rare (Few banks even allow it), is the same amount wholesale/retail. BMWFS, Chase, KeyBank, ad nauseum.. they all charge us as dealers what we charge you.

We do get people who refuse to pay them on occasion. So there are ways around them.

Some banks waive them if the rate goes up, unless it is a very cheap car, this is not usually a good thing for the customer. Otherwise the $500 or so has to come from somewhere, usually in less discount, etc.

But dealers generally do not pay people to do business with them.

Bill

CarMan@Edmunds · February 2003

Hi jhk_db. It sounds to me as though you are dealing with a very honest dealership. Both the lease money factor and residual value that they quoted you are correct if you were to lease a 2003 Audi A6 Avant through Audi Financial Services this month for 42 months with 12,000 miles per year. This .00075 special money factor is available for all leases of up to 42 months in length, so it would also be good for the 39 month term that you inquired about. The 39 month, 12,000 miles per year residual value for this vehicle would increase to 51%.

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CarMan@Edmunds · February 2003

No problem, vinyljunkie. It happens all the time. Here is the information that you are looking for. If you were to lease any 2003 Honda Accord through American Honda Finance Corp. this month for 3 years with 12,000 miles per right now, their base lease money factor should be .00230. The 3 year, 12,000 miles per residual values for this car are currently 60% for the 2003 Accord LX 4-cylinder and 59% for the 2003 Accord LX V6 & EX without Navigation.

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CarMan@Edmunds · February 2003

Thanks for the heads up, Bill. I saw that BMW enhanced their lease money factors on the 325 on around February 4th. This is a national program. This factor allows them to arrive at the $299 advertised payment that they have been touting. It actually is a fairly attractive deal. There are a lot of good cars being advertised at $299 per month leases right now. I don't know which one I would go for if I was in the market, but it would probably be the A4 1.8T quattro in a tight race over the 325i. Of course, when you add a few options, realistic mileage, and no down payment none of these cars are really $299 per month, but they still are good deals.

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CarMan@Edmunds · February 2003

Rivertown, lease acquisition fees definitely are not "hooey" as you put it in your post. Even though their exact amounts vary slightly, all banks charge consumers non-negotiable lease acquisition fees when they agree to lease vehicles through them. Individual dealerships have no authority to alter or waive lease acquisition fees. They must be collected on all deals. The minuscule amounts that banks sometimes pay dealerships on contracts that are run through them are a completely separate issue. The two items are not related. I suppose that you feel as though this is a profit center for dealers that can be used to negotiate a better price on your vehicle, thereby making back some of the money that you had to pay in bank fees. This is not a very realistic view of the situation and it completely ignores all of the expenses that dealerships have.

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CarMan@Edmunds · February 2003

Vinyljunkie, I answered your question in post #5679. Please let me know if you have any other questions. If I don't speak with you, have a great weekend!

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vinyljunkie · February 2003

Carman, thanks for the information....I highly appreciate it. Thanks!

im_brentwood · February 2003

Yeah I just heard about the program tho!

You know.. two things piss me off about it.

1) THey advertise the wrong car! We dont have any ad cars.. heck, NOBODY has any of them! So automatically people think you're bait and switching them

2) It's good for us, I suppose, that they support the leases like this, but it sure as heck isnt helping much else. Well, customers getting a better deal, good for them. But these cars just don't need incentives. We still get very close to MSRP for 3 series cars and cannot get enough to sell.

footie · February 2003

Mr. BrentwoodVolvo

You may have a string of folks out there salavering to pay you MSRP for 3 series cars, but it ain't that way everywhere.

If you get on the Turnersvilleauto (NJ) internet list, they move 3 series for 1,000 over invoice from time to time depending on inventory (which implies they aren't just flying off the lots).

More importantly, here in Boston, where we have a very competitive auto market for all brands, I had a quote for a 325ixt in early January for $350 over invoice from one of the largest dealers in the city. They have 200+ BMW's in stock and this weekend (President's Day replay due to snowfall last week of 27") they'll move cars for almost anything.

All of the normal lease and finance deals apply. So anyone within shouting distance of this neck of the woods ought to shop carefully and drive home a good deal.

Regards

im_brentwood · February 2003

Should have read "most"

It is obviously not that way everywhere, but thanks for the revelation.

I get something called "Cross-Sell" reports that show what BMW dealers in a state are selling cars for.

I get NJ, SE PA, SE NY, CT

Will we do them for $1,000 over invoice? yes on certain models at certain times.

Is that Market on them? No. Within 100 miles of NY City, the average sales price on an E46 is within $1300 of MSRP.

My sales manager is still whining that he cannot get enough of them.

Bill

vwvw1 · February 2003

Hi, Please help. I am considering a lease on a Used 2002 Jetta gls 1.8t, fully loaded - sprt pkg, auto, roof, leather, etc. It has about 3000 miles. Can you give me the money factor and residual for 3 & 4 yrs lease w/ 12 & 15k miles. Will I be able to take advantage of current VW Credit incentives/promos?

Thank you for your help!

im_brentwood · February 2003

Unless there's a subsidised program I am not aware of for Certified Used VWs, generally the lease payments work out to be the same or less on new cars.

Bill

spencer13 · February 2003

Just wanted to say thank you for the info on the 4x2 V6 Highlander. We picked one up today with a MF of .001 and a residual of 58%.

onlyonce · February 2003

Carman - Thanks for the info regarding the VW Passat GLX. With your info and the lease calculator at leaseguide.com I was able to construct a fair deal and present it to the dealer. The Passat is now in the driveway.

Thanks again!

JJ

bv73ms3 · February 2003

Hi Car Man,
I've heard that Saab is offering some super low MF. Do you know the exact number and do you know if it will be extended into March? I hope to lease for 36 mos/12K.
Also do you know the dealer prep and advertising fees that supposedly Saab charges? The dealer showed me an invoice but I thought those fees are already incorporated into the invoice price. Is this another way for dealers to add profit?

thanks

gmanusmc · February 2003

CarMan - Do you have the Residual/Money Factor for the 2003 Civic LX Auto 159x48 Mo/12K lease currently being offered (I guess it expires on the 28th). Sounds like a good deal - I'm in Southern CA with lots of Honda dealers and the figures vary depending on who you talk to.

Thanks, Bill G

CarMan@Edmunds · February 2003

No problem, vinyljunkie. Thanks for the kind words.

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CarMan@Edmunds · February 2003

Bill, I know what you are saying. I don't imagine that BMW produces many stripped models. Interestingly enough, if you look closely at their ads, they don't even show a picture of the stripped model that they have the sample lease payment for. In the fine print it says something like pictured model includes options X, Y, & Z and has a monthly payment of $350 or whatever. Although I am sure the $299 price point is very attractive and probably generates a lot of showroom traffic, I can see where BMW dealers probably have a lot of irritated customers on their hands when they find out that they can not get the car that is being advertised all over the place.

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CarMan@Edmunds · February 2003

Hi vwvw1. Unfortunately, used vehicles are not eligible for Volkswagen's new vehicle incentives, like their special lease program and dealer cash. Many manufacturers do provide supported lease programs on certified used vehicles, but there are so many numbers associated with them because of all of the possible model years and mileages of used vehicles that I do not personally keep tabs on them. Sorry that I could not be of more help.

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CarMan@Edmunds · February 2003

You're welcome, spencer13. I am glad to see that everything worked out so well for you. Thanks for taking the time to update us on your situation. Enjoy your new truck!

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CarMan@Edmunds · February 2003

Hey this is great, two updates from consumers in a row

. I love it when community members come back to let us know how everything turned out. You're welcome, JJ. Enjoy your new Passat.

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CarMan@Edmunds · February 2003

Hi bv73ms3. Saab almost always has tons of incentives on its models. If you were to lease a 2003 Saab 9-3 Linear Sedan through Saab Financial Services right now for 3 years with 12,000 miles per, their base lease money factor and residual value should be .00022 and 53%, respectively. They also have $1,000 dealer cash on this particular model that may be used in conjunction with their special lease program. All of these promotions are only good through February 28th. It is difficult to say exactly what Saab will do with their March incentives, but in general manufacturers usually increase their incentives as the model year progresses. So it is probably safe to assume that Saab's March lease program will be at least as attractive as their February program, if not more so.

As far as pricing goes, I do not know what sort of fees are included in Saab's dealer invoices. Rather than worrying about all of the little fees that dealers try to add to deals, I personally believe that consumers should look at the big picture, their vehicle's out-the-door price. As long as you can drive off in the car that you are interested in with the lowest total price available from the dealers in your area, who cares what sort of little fees they break out. If I was in your situation, I would get an out-the-door price quote from my local Saab dealer and comparison shop it with a few other dealerships. If my local dealer has the best total price, or close to it then I would go with them.

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CarMan@Edmunds · February 2003

Hi Bill. I do indeed have the details of that lease. If you were to lease a 2003 Honda Civic LX Sedan through American Honda Finance Corp. prior to the end of the month, their 4 year 12,000 miles per base lease money factor and residual value should be .00092 and 52%, respectively. This is a very attractive promotion.

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jhk_db · February 2003

Car_man: Thanks for your response re: the A6 Avant (#5678). Just for comparison, would you also be able to provide the money factor and residual for a 2003 Passat GLX wagon with 4motion (either 39 or 42 mos at 12K miles per year)? Thanks for all your help.

im_brentwood · February 2003

Ayeahup!

It does get frustrating. Then we go and actually get a $299 car and nobody wants it! (There's your $800 over 325i...)

Watch for some enhancements to the 7-Series program BTW

cstabile · February 2003

I made this post on the VW Passat pricing board and got no response. I was hoping someone here could help me out. Thanks.

How is the holdback calculated for VW's? Is it a percentage of MSRP? Do you include the destination charge in the calculation? Is the percentage the same for all VW's or is it different for different models and trim lines? One dealer said it's 3% of invoice while another said it 2% of MSRP.

If it matters, I am looking to lease a Passat GLX Auto w/ ESP.

Thanks in advance for the help.

vwvw1 · February 2003

First of all, thank you Car Man & brentwoodvolvo for your help!

Now I am looking at leasing a new 2003 jetta gls 1.8t, automatic. Is it wise for me to take a 48 month lease for 60k miles? I know that 12k a year will not be enough. My concern is having it 10k after factory warranty expires. I was looking at 48 months to lower my payments. Also, what are the residuals for 12k / 15k, can you tell me the money factors through VW credit too. Does VW credit offer better lease rates for good credit score? My score is 701. Questions, questions, questions...

Thanks for the help!!

bttrahan · February 2003

I am presently in the 27th month of a 36 month GMAC SmartLease on my 2001 Monte Carlo SS. The car was "right on time" when I first got it, but now with a new fiance and a recent job move I need something "more fitting." Here's the facts

2001 Monte Carlo SS
Silver
Leather/Heated Seats
Moonroof
Power everything
a few minor dings
other than that - GREAT CONDITION
and "uh oh" I know I'm gonna get it for this(25k miles over the allotted mileage).

Here's the situation (sorry if not in the proper order):
I don't want another Chevy and don't want another lease, I want to buy my next vehicle. My residual value for my Monte is $15500 RIGHT NOW. My bank agreed to pay $13500 at a rate of 6.1% for 48 months. I then called GMAC directly to get a lower residual, but the rep. told me to negotiate with the dealer which I heard I should NEVER do.

What should I do next:

Take the $2000 hit and then sell the car?? (I heard carmax would give a good price for the car??)

Do like the GMAC rep. said and Deal with the Dealer??

Sell privately

I AM SO CONFUSED RIGHT NOW, CAN SOMEONE PLEASE HELP ME GET OUT OF THIS HELL HOLE!!!!!!!! I NEED SOME BIG TIME ADVICE.

P.S. I know I can't get off "Scott Free", but how do I take the smallest hit in my pocketbook.

eswanborg · February 2003

Car_man - I just searched through and the latest info I found on the Honda Pilot you mentioned a MF of .0022 (or .0023) and residual value of 61% for a 36 mo/ 15k lease. Do you think that's changed much? And would it be terribly different to go to 42 months? Thanks.

ogbuffguy · February 2003

whats the lease rates on a toyota camry V6 LE, in so cali, 15k/36 months?? and a toyota tacoma sr5 V6, thanks for all your help

CarMan@Edmunds · February 2003

You're welcome, jhk_db. I am glad that I was able to help you out. As far as the 2003 Passat GLX Wagon 4-Motion goes, if you were to lease one through Volkswagen Credit this month for 39 months with 12,000 miles per year, their base lease money factor and residual value should be .00140 and 55%, respectively. Like all other Passats, Volkswagen's $500 dealer cash may be used in conjunction with the above lease program.

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CarMan@Edmunds · February 2003

Thanks for the heads up on the 7-Series, Bill. I imagine that they probably will wait until March 3rd when their February program is scheduled to expire to announce any program revisions.

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CarMan@Edmunds · February 2003

Hi cstabile. Of course, it is important to know that it exists, but I have always found that it is counter productive to introduce holdback into negotiations with dealers. Doing so usually only irritates them and severs to break down negotiations. You would be much better off comparison shopping and getting a few out-the-door price quotes for the model that you are interested in. By doing so, you eliminate all of the little fees that often cloud the big picture, the ultimate price of the car that you are interested in. Given the $500 dealer cash that is available on Volkswagens right now, you should be able to purchase one right at or slightly above dealer invoice in most areas without too much difficulty.

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CarMan@Edmunds · February 2003

I am glad that you find this discussion so helpful, vwvw1. I personally feel as though it is best to lease cars for 36 to 39 months, but would not be completely opposed to leasing a model that has a 4 year bumper-to-bumper warranty, like the Jetta, for 48 months provided that I didn't foresee any dramatic lifestyle changes that would alter my transportation needs in the future. Volkswagen's 48 month lease money factors are slightly higher than their most attractive rates which they feature for shorter leases, but they still aren't bad. If you were to lease a 2003 Volkswagen Jetta GLS 1.8T Sedan though VW Credit this month for 4 years with 15,000 miles per, their base lease money factor and residual value should be .00175 and 49%, respectively, for consumers who qualify for their top credit tier. When negotiating your deal on this car, keep in mind that Volkswagen currently has $500 dealer cash on all Jettas that may be used in conjunction with their special lease program. You can use this money to your advantage when negotiating your car's capitalized cost.

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CarMan@Edmunds · February 2003

Hi bttrahan. I just responded to the identical post that you made in another discussion here on the Finance, Warranty, and Insurance Message Board. Please check there for my response. Thanks.

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vwvw1 · February 2003

Thank you so much for the info and your insight. This board has been a tremendous help!

cstabile · February 2003

Thanks for your quick response Car Man. Your comments are very helpful. One thing though, could you clarify what your definition of "dealer invoice" is. Is this amount net of the $500 dealer cash (probably not) and is it net of the holdback (probably not again).

Assuming no to both items, then, in the situation where I pay an "out the door price", I guess the dealer gets the $500 dealer cash plus the holdback but he "loses out on the misc fees". Is that right? Sorry for such a confusing post.

footie · February 2003

Car_Man

What is the current lease offering from Toyota on the Matrix XR 5 speed for 36 or 39 months for Massachusetts or Maryland. Is there any support?

Thanks and keep up the good work!

im_brentwood · February 2003

No problem.

If you don't get the info I can grab it for ya.

Bill

CarMan@Edmunds · February 2003

Greetings eswanborg. Honda has a base lease money factor of .00230 on the 2003 Pilot. The residual values for this truck are still the same as well. The one that you posted in your message is good for a 3 year 15k lease of the 2003 Pilot EX and LX. Other trim levels will have slightly different residual values. AHFC's 39 month residual values for this truck are 2% lower than their 36 month values. I suspect that their 42 month numbers would be another 2% lower (4% total) than their 36 month residual values.

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CarMan@Edmunds · February 2003

Hi ogbuffguy. Toyota's lease program on certain models varies depending upon what part of the country one is in. If you tell me the state that you plan on leasing these vehicles in, I will try to hunt down their lease data for you. Talk to you soon.

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CarMan@Edmunds · February 2003

Awwwwww, Thanks vwvw1. I appreciate the compliment

.

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