Lease Questions - Ask Here

djdez · May 2003

$424 is an ok deal ... but running my numbers, I came out with a slightly BETTER # ... all things being considered that you mentioned, and I got a $388 a month base payment and $23 a month for the tax, for a total of $411.71 .. instead of the $424.

Hell, I always give em the 'I like even number payments' line - so ask them for $420 a month, or better yet, $410 !!!

jpierce26 · May 2003

Here is the final numbers on a lease that I got this afternoon.

MSRP $38,933
RV 61%
Inv $36,788
Months 36
MF .0017
Pay wo tax $465.10
Pay w/tax $497.66

How does that sound?

usmj1 · May 2003

djdez,

Thanks for the advice. Monthly payment includes: 719 - tax
550 - acquisition fee
98 - documentation fee
65 - registration
= 1432-275(downpayment)= 1157/39=$30/mo

$424-$30 = $394. I know the acquisition and doc fees are profit but tough to dump.

I'll try to squeeze for the extra $6/mo if I have the energy. Again, appreciate the input.

sanah · May 2003

Hi Car Man, I know I said I'll be back in touch in June, but I wanted to know (hypothetically) what type of monthly payments I could expect for a 2003 325Ci with Steptronic, xenon lights, and the sports package (in DC area). A 36 month/12,000 mile lease with the MSRP $34,595 and selling price $33,095 (and $0 down). Let me know if you need anymore info. Thanks a bunch.

CarMan@Edmunds · May 2003

Hi Neil. Other than the possible variation in tax laws, there really should not be much of a difference between leasing a BMW in Pennsylvania and leasing one in Florida. BMW's lease program is national and does not have any sort of regional variation, like some banks' leases programs. I am not personally familiar with the market for BMW's in PA and FL, in terms of which place would be easier to negotiate an inexpensive price, but I would probably wait and just lease in Florida if I was in your situation.

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CarMan@Edmunds · May 2003

Hey Gregg. Ford's lease program often varies regionally. I will provide you with information on what I believe is it's most widely available program. If you were to lease a 2003 Ford Escape V6 4WD XLT Popular through Ford Motor Credit this month for 36 months with 12,000 miles per year, its base lease rate and residual value should be 3.25% and 47%, respectively. Ford also has lease cash of up to $1,500 on this truck that may be used to reduce its capitalized cost.

Next we have the 2003 Nissan Murano SL AWD. If you were to lease this model through Nissan Motor Acceptance Corp. for 3 years with 12,000 miles per, its base lease money factor and residual value should be .00216 and 56%, respectively. the 39 month money factor for this model would be exactly the same, but the residual value would be 1% lower.

Last we have the 2003 Toyota Highlander AWD Non-Limited. Keep in mind that Toyota's incentives have a great deal of regional variation. In most areas though, Toyota is not providing lease money factor support on the 2003 Highlander. If that is the case were you are and you were to lease one through Toyota Financial Services for 3 years with 12,000 miles per, its base lease money factor and residual value should be around .00240 and 60%, respectively. the money factor for a 39 month lease should be exactly the same, but the residual value would be 3% lower. Toyota's Southeast region has its own finance company and would have a completely different lease program than this.

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CarMan@Edmunds · May 2003

Greetings john888. BMW's base lease money factor for the 2003 X5 3.0i and 4.4i is currently .00150 for leases of up to 42 months in length. It is not providing any sort of lease support on the 2003 X5 4.6is. I am not all that familiar with the market for X5s right now, but I am almost certain that you would have to pay much more than dealer invoice to purchase or lease one in the New York metro area. You may want to stop by the SUV Message Board or the Smart Shopper Message Board for more feedback on this truck's current pricing.

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CarMan@Edmunds · May 2003

Thanks for the additional information, JP. OK, if you were to lease a 2003 BMW 325xi through BMW Financial Services this month for 3 years with 15,000 miles per, its base lease money factor and residual value should be .00150 and 59%, respectively.

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CarMan@Edmunds · May 2003

You're welcome, usmj1. Good luck and if all goes well, enjoy your new car!

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jpierce26 · May 2003

I changed the milage to 12,000 and they could only offer me .0017 how does that translate in dollars. According to my calculations it was only about $350 more.

Any help would be appreciated.

JP

CarMan@Edmunds · May 2003

Hey sanah. Even though you aren't planning on taking delivery until June, I would be more than happy to calculate a sample lease payment on this car for you now, just to give you an idea of approximately what it will cost to lease this car. According to my calculations, if you were to lease a 2003 BMW 325Ci (MSRP: $34,595 / Capitalized Cost: $33,095) though BMW Financial Services this month for 3 years with 12,000 miles per, your zero down, pre-tax monthly lease payment should be around $415 or so.

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CarMan@Edmunds · May 2003

Well, JP, the number of miles per year that you lease with does not have anything to do with this car's lease money factor. It's base factor is still .00150. It looks to me as though the dealer that you are working with marked-up BMW FS' base money factor to add additional hidden profit to your deal. It's difficult to know exactly how much money this mark up is costing you without knowing this car's selling price, but on a typical deal, it looks like a little more than $12 per month or between $400 and $450 over the length of the lease.

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gperr · May 2003

Car_man,

Thanks again for the info. Southern NJ is the location. Any changes to your numbers from post 6445?

Gregg

gperr · May 2003

Car_man,

A different friend is considering these two very different cars. Would you please provide the MF & Res for 36, 39 & 48 months 15K miles.

Acura TL (Non-nav, Non-type S)
Mazda 6i (auto 4cyl)

Thanks
Gregg

garyw · May 2003

Is this a good/bad lease - what should I negotiate to make it better. Miles are not important to me.

36 months
Cap price = $27,790
Miles = 12k per year
Residual=17,893
Money=.00255
Payment $348
Down = $2500

Thank you very much.

ensm00 · May 2003

Car Man:

Please update me with the May lease factos and residual values for a 2003 Audi A6 3.0 with quattro. 39 months, 12K miles per year.

Thanks.

sanah · May 2003

Thank-you very much, Car Man.

squirreljam · May 2003

CarMan - hey there - just wondering if you have yet seen the May Acura mf and rv% for TSX. Details would include 36 or 39 mos., 15K miles/year, St Louis MO, manual trans with no nav.

Thanks a ton,
Squirrel

rwright · May 2003

Car_man

Hope you're going well -

I was hoping you could post the base lease money factors and residual values for 2 cars:
BMW 325Ci (36 months/12,000 miles per year)
Honda Accord Coupe EX v-6 Auto (no nav) (36 months/12,000 miles per year)

Thanks.

icdchess · May 2003

Hi Car_man
Hoping that you got to see the 39 month, New York, money factor/residuals for the G35 Sedan. Thanks, as always.
Steve

mota1 · May 2003

2003 BMW 325 Ci....36m, 12k
Money factor: .00150
Residual: 59%

2004 BMW 325 Ci....36m, 12k
Money factor: .00220
Residual: 62%

Those are based on BMWFS' May program.

2004 TSX (manual, no navi)......36/39m, 15k
Money factor: .00205
Residual @ 36month= 63%
Residual @ 39month= 59%

I'm using older (april)tsx residual numbers, but I don't think they've changed much, wait for carman to post the official ones before you sign anything, heh. I believe the money factor is current (may), as I to am looking at a tsx and this is the money factor I was quoted through email (although I am looking at one with navi, I don't know if that affects the money factor for this vehicle....I doubt it does).

mbarros · May 2003

Hi Car_man,
I was hoping you can help me with the MF and RV% of a 2003 or 2004 Audi Allroad (no nav), NY, 36 and 39 mos., 15k.

Thanks, in advance.

bama60 · May 2003

Car Man,

I am interested in money factor and residual for the Audi A4 in the following configs: 3.0 CVT, 3.0 quattro, and 1.8 CVT. The lease info is 36 months and 12k miles per year.

Thanks

madmanager · May 2003

Carman: Please update me with the May money factors and residual percentage on a 2004 325Ci from BMW FS. Thanks for your help!

mota1 · May 2003

BMW 2004ci
residual @ 36months, 15,000/year= 62%
money factor= .00220

Add 2% to the residual if you are only doing 12,000 miles per year. The money factor is the same for 24-42 months (.00220). Residuals change as follows(again, based on 15,000 miles): 24months=70%, 30months=66%, 36months=62%, 42months=54%, 48months=48%.

These are based on bmwfs' May program, that runs through 06/02/03

lponz7 · May 2003

Also looking for May numbers on money factor and residual value for Audi A4 (1.8T, FWD)--12K/36 months.

By the way, I've run into a phenomenon at two local dealerships (Acura and BMW) where they've marked up the money factor and, in BMW's case, the acquisition fee. When confronted, Acura backed off but BMW dealer simply said "we're entitled to make money on the financing." Well not on my financing--besides they're not doing the financing, they're just selling to BMW F.S.!

I hope to have better luck with Audi, but I'm beginning to doubt there's an honest dealer left out there.

Thanks for the help, as always.

knr5 · May 2003

Carman,
I am interested in leasing a 2003 Infiniti G35 Sport Sedan with 6-Speed MT. It has the Premium package, Winter Package, and the Aero Package.

Here are the basic numbers I am considering from a dealer for a 39 month lease, with 12,000 annual miles:
MSRP: 33,845
Selling Price: 32,344
Residual Value: 55% = 18, 614.75
Money Factor: 0.00225
License & Fees: 924 (284 + 640)
Cash Capital Reduction: 2,000
Total Sales Tax: 901.27
Amount Due at Beginning: 4,236
Total Monthly Payment: 410.91

While I may be able to do a little better on the selling price, my concern is more with the money factor. I read somebody in New York got 0.00155 and another person (a couple of months ago, perhaps) suggested something like 0.0018 or so. Can you please let me know what the current money factor is from Infiniti, for the midwest (if it varies by region). As I am hoping to finalize the deal in a couple of days, I sincerely hope you will be able to provide me the info on time!:)

Thank you, in anticipation!
Raj

p.s.: I hope others on this board will also share with me their opinions on the lease terms. Thanks.

landru2 · May 2003

Before you annoint the finance company with a halo and banish the dealership to Hades, it may interest you to know that dealerships mark-up money factors and interest rates with the finance company's blessing. Usually they will set limits on how much the dealership can mark-up rates.

I understand you may not like it, but I just wanted to point out that dealerships don't just raise the rates to whatever they feel like. After all, your deal gets bought by BMW FS and they could just reject the contract if they didn't approve of the rate on it.

clpurnell · May 2003

They are jacking up the mf big time I would suspect it would not be over .00157 (this is what I paid in april on an FX35). Also I would advise against putting more than the first payment down.

lponz7 · May 2003

landru2, you make a good point--there's precious few halos to go around here. What irks me is that when I negotiate the cap cost the dealer says, "gee, that's the best we can do; after all we have to make some profit on the deal," without ever disclosing that they're writing up the money factor by 100 basis points and making another $1,000 over the life of the lease, plus a couple of hundred on the acq. fee.

Perhaps this is a good reason to avoid using captive finance subsidiaries. As for your point that BMW F.S. could reject the contract if they don't like it, I'm not sure I follow. If the dealership writes it at the current base lease money factor and my credit checks out, what's to reject?

landru2 · May 2003

Using % rates to illustrate, if the base rate is 6% and the dealership marks your rate up to 7% then 7% is what is on your contract. The finance company pays the dealership the difference that 1% makes.

Taking it to extremes, if the dealership could get you to agree to 15%, the contract would read 15% and I doubt BMW FS would accept that contract from the dealership.

Oh and BTW, pretty much every bank lets dealerships mark-up their rates. Non-captive banks usually allow the biggest mark-ups.

lponz7 · May 2003

I follow that. But my question is why should I accept the dealership making a profit through the financing. After all, if I paid cash, or financed through a third party, all the dealership would receive is the difference between invoice/cost and my purchase price.

Add to that they don't tell you they're making money on the financing. That certainly affects what I will accept as capitalized cost, but most people are unaware of this hidden profit when they are negotiating the cap cost.

landru2 · May 2003

the answer is that you don't have to accept it. You are always free to pay cash or arrange your financing yourself.

As for the profit being hidden, I think that's only because people haven't given the situation enough thought. After all, dealerships aren't charities. If the dealership owner is paying someone (like a finance manager) to work there, you can bet that he or she is being paid to help generate a profit. That's the only reason a delaership does anything - including arranging your financing.

You can bet the loans officer at the bank is paid to generate a profit for the bank too. They mark-up their money before they loan it to you.

Again, you can avoid the whole issue by arranging your financing yourself. That way the dealership will not expect to be paid for doing it for you.

knr5 · May 2003

clpurnell,
Thank you for your prompt response. I will reduce my cash down if I am able to get a reasonable money factor. Thanks, again!

taxd00d · May 2003

CarMan,

Thank you for your help on the BMW 325xi and 330xi question.

I have another question regarding Volvo leases. What are the Money Factors and Residuals for 24, 36 and 48 months at 15,000 miles per year for a 2003 Volvo 2.5T AWD?

Also, is the $4,500 in Dealer Cash available for leases through Volvo Finance?

Also, can you lease (and thus apply the Dealer Cash) when you use the Volvo Overseas Delivery program?

Thank you,
Taxd00d

CarMan@Edmunds · May 2003

You're welcome, Gregg. The numbers that I provided you with should be good in your neck of the woods.

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CarMan@Edmunds · May 2003

Hi again Gregg. Here are the numbers for the vehicles that your friend is interested in. If they were to lease a 2003 Acura TL through American Honda Finance Corp. this month for 3 years with 15,000 miles per, its base lease money factor and residual value should be .00093 and 56%, respectively. The numbers for an otherwise identical 39 month lease should be .00093 and 53%. It definitely does not make sense to lease this car for more than 39 months, because that is the longest available term for AHFC's special money factors. Anyone who leases one for longer than that would have to use its standard factors, which are much higher.

As far as the 2003 Mazda Mazda 6i goes, if your friend were to lease one through Mazda's captive finance company for 3 years with 15,000 miles per, its base lease money factor and residual value should be around .00105 and 47%, respectively. The numbers for an otherwise identical 4 year lease of this car should be around .00131 and 40%.

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CarMan@Edmunds · May 2003

Hello garyw. Let me begin by saying that the lease money factor that this deal is supposedly based upon looks to be a little on the high side to me. According to the most recent information that I have seen, American Honda Finance Corp.'s current base standard lease money factor for 3 year terms is .00210. Your dealer is probably marking up this base money factor to add additional hidden profit to your deal. This is a perfectly legal practice, but you as a consumer should insist that they use the base money factor to calculate your monthly payment. If they don't, there are plenty of dealerships out there that will gladly do so. I would be more than happy to calculate a sample lease payment on this van for you, so that you have an idea of what it should cost you to lease one right now. However, it would be a big help if you would provide me with its full MSRP first. Once I have this additional info, I will be able to help you out. Talk to you soon.

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CarMan@Edmunds · May 2003

Greetings ensm00. Here is the info that you're searching for. If you were to lease a 2003 Audi A6 3.0L Sedan with quattro through Audi Financial Services this month for 39 months with 12,000 miles per year, its base lease money factor and residual value should be .00050 and 51%, respectively.

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CarMan@Edmunds · May 2003

You're welcome, sanah.

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CarMan@Edmunds · May 2003

Hey Squirrel. I actually have seen Acura's new program for the TSX. As one might expect, Acura is not providing any sort of lease support on this brand new model. So if you were to lease one through American Honda Finance Corp. right now you would have to use its standard money factors. I believe that AHFC's 3 year base standard factor for Acura models is currently around .00220. The 2004 TSX's 3 year 15,000 miles per residual value should currently be 63% for models that are not equipped with navigation.

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CarMan@Edmunds · May 2003

Hello rwright. Here's the info that you're looking for. According to the most recent informaiton that I have seen, if you were to lease a 2003 BMW 325Ci through BMW Financial Services this month for 3 years with 12,000 miles per, its base lease money factor and residual value should be .00150 and 61%, respectively.

If you were to lease a 2003 Honda Accord EX without navigation through American Honda Finance Corp. this month for 3 years with 12,000 miles per, its base lease money factor and residual value should be .00210 and 59%, respectively.

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CarMan@Edmunds · May 2003

Hey again Steve. I didn't forget about you

. It took me a little while, but here is the information that you are looking for. If you were to lease a 2003 Infiniti G35 Sedan through Infiniti Financial Services this month for 39 months with 15,000 miles per, its base lease money factor and residual value should be .00140 and 54%, respectively. The 12,000 miles per year residual value for this term would be 1% higher.

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CarMan@Edmunds · May 2003

Hi mbarros. According to the most recent information that I have seen, if you were to lease a 2003 Audi allroad through Audi Financial Services this month for 3 years with 15,000 miles per, its base lease money factor and residual value should be .00120 and 57%, respectively. The numbers for an otherwise identical 39 month lease should be .00120 and 55%.

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CarMan@Edmunds · May 2003

Hey bama60. More Audis huh

. OK, if you were to lease a 2003 Audi A4 1.8T Sedan without quattro through Audi Financial Services this month for 3 years with 12,000 miles per, its base factor and residual value should be .00095 and 56%, respectively. The numbers for an otherwise identical lease of a 2003 Audi A4 3.0L Sedan without quattro should be .00070 and 52%. Lastly, the numbers for an otherwise identical lease of a 2003 Audi A4 3.0L Sedan with quattro should be .00130 and 56%.

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CarMan@Edmunds · May 2003

Hi there madmanager. I would be more than happy to give you an idea of what BMW's current lease program is like on this car. However, first I am going to need you to tell me how long you plan on leasing it for and how many miles per year you need to be able to drive it without having to pay a lease-end penalty.

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CarMan@Edmunds · May 2003

Hi lponz7. I believe that I just provided the information that you are looking for in post #6485. Please check there for the information that you are looking for.

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CarMan@Edmunds · May 2003

Hey Raj. The lease money factor that you are being charged to lease this car is definitely high. Infiniti Financial Services' 39 month base money factor for the 2003 G35 Sedan is currently only .00140. This is a national program and should not vary depending upon what part of the country one is in. Using the prices that you provided in your post, MSRP: $33,845 / Selling Price: $32,344, if you were to lease a 2003 Infiniti G35 Sedan through IFS this month fro 39 months with 12,000 miles per, your zero down, pre-tax monthly lease payment should be right around $432 or so. With a $2,000 down payment, which I definitely do not recommend, the payment would drop to right around $369.

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CarMan@Edmunds · May 2003

No problem, Taxd00d. I would be happy to give you an idea of what this vehicle's lease program should be like, but you never mentioned which model you are interested in. Volvo has 2.5T AWD versions of both the S60 and the V70. Either way, Volvo has done away with its supported lease program for 2003 models and replaced it with the dealer cash that you mentioned. This cash is available on leases through Volvo Finance, but since there are no special lease money factors or residual values on 2003 models through Volvo any more it is entirely possible that it is less expensive to use this cash to negotiate an attractive price and then finance or lease it through another bank.

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knr5 · May 2003

Car_man,
Thank you for your detailed response. I will certainly use the information you provided.
Thanks, again!:)
Raj

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