VW GTI (All styles)

laterbmw · September 2002

I am sure this information is available somewhere but I can't seem to locate it. What are the stated 0-60 times for the 1.8T and the VR6-200?

I am contemplating buying one or the other, but I am not sure which way I should go. Any ideas? I live in CA so the roads are curvey and in pretty good shape.

Thanks!

welst10 · September 2002

After a few weeks research and test driving (I test drove 7 cars so far), my list narrows to Acura RSX, GTI 1.8t, and Passat 1.8t, although I haven't test drove GTI or Passat yet (test drove 2002 Jetta 1.8t tho, the car's mechanical quality was questionable). Just a question, what're the differences between 03 and 02 GTI? Are 03 models assembled in Brazil with German powertrain like 02? Thanks.

seguy · September 2002

VW.com(vwoa website)claims 7.5sec for 1.8T and 7.6sec for new 200hpV6. Although, car mags have gotten about 6.5 and 6.7 respectively. Pretty close, not enough to tell a difference really.

If you don't plan to do any upgrading to the car, go with the V6(Better power below 2000 rpm). 1.8T with a chip is slightly quicker in stock form, but throw in a chip (increase to 210 hp) and it'll blow by the V6, not to mention better gas mileage too. I have a 1.8T and love it. I drove a V6 and liked it too, but that boost is addicting when it kicks in.

Hope this helps...

gotenks243 · September 2002

Yes, they're still assembled in Brazil, just like last year. For '03 the GTI gets leather steering wheel, shifter boot, and handbrake standard even without the leather package (boo!), gets ESP available as an option, and has different color choices (Matchstick Red and Rave Green, my two favorite GTI colors, gone in favor of Silverstone, right?).

VW claims 7.7 for the 24v, .2 slower than their 1.8t claim, but since no magazines that I'm aware of have tested the 24v yet and VW always has conservative estimates, we really don't know what it's capable of.

Mike

adg44 · September 2002

So it would make sense that the 24v VR6 would do the same, if not better.

rickrover · September 2002

You need to drive the 1.8t and VR6, they are really different. Performance numbers don't do them justice, .2 of a second is not detectable 0-60. I went with the 1.8t because of it's tuneability and price, it also felt lighter and seemed to handle a little better although the VR6 only weighs about 100 pounds more. The VR6 is extremely nice, lots of low end torque, very smooth - you have to test both back to back and decide for yourself. I like the scrappy nature of my tuned 1.8t, the VR6 has a more refined Audi feel to it - hard to explain.

seguy · September 2002

with rickover...

and sorry about the wrong time on the 24V, my memory failed me. The times I believe are from Car and Driver, not sure which issue though. (Separate ones of course.)

mpg5 · September 2002

help me out man. i am torn between 2003 gti or a 4 door chipped tdi golf. tdi=lots of torque but no high end pull. gti 1.8t=wider powerband that really screams. i like 4 doors for the kids, but i think i really want a smokin' fast ride. i can get a tdi w/lux and monsoon for 17800. what would a 2003 gti 1.8t w 17"s and sunroof/monsoon cost?

seguy · September 2002

Gti should run around 20000.

A chipped TDI is pretty quick. If you compare the HP output from 0-4000 rpms (TDI redlines around 4200rpm vs 6300rpm 1.8T) of a stock TDI vs stock 1.8T, the TDI actually has the edge. Although its taller gearing will handicap its acceleration vs the 1.8T. A chipped TDI wouldn't be a screamer by any means, but for normal day to day driving, it may seem equal to the 1.8T in acceleration. i.e. shifting at 3000 rpms in a chipped TDI would probably yield better accel times Vs shifting at 3000 rpm in a 1.8T. I don't know if this has been tested, just my 2 cents.

nerd · September 2002

I am shopping for a fun-to-drive car for days when I don't need to drive my pickup. I am considering a new GTI. I would appreciate comments regarding reliability and what you owners like and don't like about the GTI. I know the styling is a little dated, but I just can't afford a BMW M Coupe.

rickrover · September 2002

Sorry I didn't get back to you sooner. I helped a friend buy an 03 1.8t GTI yesterday. He'd been looking for a couple months and compared RSX, MINI S and fell hard for the 1.8t GTI. He got a fully loaded 03 GTI with leather, luxury and 17's for $850 off MSRP. I checked Edmunds for invoice and noticed that they don't list invoice for 03's - you could use 02 GTI to figure invoice - TMV is useless, I never use Edmunds TMV as a guide. So working from Edmunds MSRP for cloth 03 1.8t GTI with luxury and 17's MSRP is $21,280, knock $850 off that and $20,430 wouldn't be too bad. Using 02 invoice as a guide it looks like there is about a $1,700 difference between dealer invoice and MSRP. I got them down about $1,300 below MSRP on my cloth 02 with luxury and 17's about a year ago. It will be unfortunate if Edmunds has stopped listing invoice prices.

As far as hooking up a TDI - I understand they are easy to get a lot of performance from. Here is a link to the best info I know on the TDI:

http://www.tdiclub.com/

rickrover · September 2002

I hadn't checked that TDI page for awhile - it looks like the consensus is an Upsolute chip for the TDI - 26 more HP and 40 LB Ft more torque. I have an Upsolute distributor near me, it was the second choice for my 1.8t. Upsolute ECU upgrade for TDI or 1.8t is $350 compared to the $500 I paid for the APR ECU upgrade on my 1.8t - Upsolute doesn't have the mode switching using the cruise control button that APR has and APR doesn't chip TDI's.

bpi · September 2002

www.kbb.com

$1,700 is the difference between the MSRP and invoice on the base car. More options mean a larger difference.

rickrover · September 2002

If you wanted to be really accurate you could figure out Invoice and MSRP on an 02 with options and apply that to an 03, it would be fairly accurate.

bpi · September 2002

My last post was meant to say that kbb.com has all the 2003 invoice information, including the options.

seguy · September 2002

I haven't had anything go wrong with mine as of yet. Only 5400 miles though. Just changed the oil around 4900. No troubles so far and I get decent mileage. 31 around town, and 35 on hwy. Every car has its share of problems. The Mk4 gti has been out since the 2000 model, so I'm sure they worked some of the kinks out by now...

As far as styling goes, I myself prefer the Gti's styling over anything else out there. Yes it's not radical, but to me that's good. IMO it has long term appeal in its clean lines.

nerd · September 2002

Thank you for the report. Happy to hear that you enjoy the car.

I agree with you on the styling. It might not be really "in", but I don't think it will ever be completely "out".

jgz1 · September 2002

I have a 2002 VW GTI that I bought back in April. As to reliability, for the past few years, VW has had a manufacturing problem with the regulators on the automatic windows. The glass falls into the door, and the window won't roll up.

Before purchasing mine, I knew of this (from this notice board) and asked the dealer if it had been fixed for 2002. He said adjustments had been made. Less than 6 months later, it happened to me. I have two other friends with 2001 GTIs, and they have had the same problem. Moreover, there is an international parts shortage. I could not get mine in to get fixed for three weeks.

Other than this problem, I LOVE my GTI. It drives great, and I, too, am partial to the styling. I just got it back from the dealer yesterday, and have been remembering what I love about this car. This is just a word of warning that there has been a serious and consistent problem with the window regulators that VW has known about for a long time. So, if I were you, I would ask the dealer if it has been fixed in 2003 models. You can probably find more posts on this problem that can explain it much more eloquently than I can.

--jgz

rickrover · September 2002

VW has recently redesigned the window regulators, the old one's had plastic clips that failed on a regular basis, the new ones have metal clips. VW is replacing window regulators that fail even if the car is out of warranty. I've seen pictures of the old and new regulators - the new ones are a huge improvement.

I haven't had any problems with the regulators on my 02 GTI but expect I eventually will.

nixomose · September 2002

I have a 99.5 mk4 vr6. And I'm just getting tired of all this stupid stuff breaking on it.
Anybody have this yet?
The stupid climatronic piece of crap now decides that when it turns on recirculate (which it seems to do automatically when the AC is on and the outside temperature hits 75 degrees) instead of blowing more air, it blows less. (but it makes a lot more noise)
My guess is that the gizmo be it vacuum or solenoid or whatever it is that opens the inside vent is broken. So it closes the vent from the outside, doesn't open the vent from the inside and does'nt blow very much air.
it wouldn't be so bad except YOU CAN'T TURN IT OFF. If you don't have recirculate on the stupid climatronic turns it on for you and there's no way to override it. So if it gets hot out, I get LESS AIRCONDITION. This has to be at least reason number 6 or 7 why this this is just so broken. I hope the fired the guy who came up with that piece of crap a few times.
So.
Anybody have any idea how the vents are controlled in the mk4's? I don't hear hissing, (but who knows) is it a broken vacuum hose? Do they still do that, or is everything done with motors now so it has a higher likelyhood of breaking?
Anybody wanna take this piece of car off my hands?

8u6hfd · September 2002

I heard VW issued a TSB that covers the replacement of the regs for a number of years.

nixomose · September 2002

Yes that poorly designed piece of computer is the absolute worst 'feature' of the car.

My only problem with vwvortex is that it's too big. This forum is a lot easier to read, although I realize it doesn't get the volume.
Thanks.

8u6hfd · September 2002

the recirc flaps in the ventilation goes quite often in the climatronic. the climatronic has the twin flaps, where regular ones have one.

nixomose · September 2002

Say that again? You have an idea of what I'm talking about. Any info on this somewhere I can read, and maybe how to fix?
thanks for any info.

mpg5 · September 2002

any info appreciated. i am thinking 20k-20.5k for 2003 gti w/lux and 17"'s. i want silverstone, so anyone who bought one i would appreciate the post. i realize demographics come into play, but any info would be helpful as i plan on negotiating px this weekend and placing my order. thanks. btw, i'm on long island.

8u6hfd · September 2002

I'll type the thing in tomorrow. I found it in the UK VW Driver Magazine.

rickrover · September 2002

I went out a couple weeks ago with a friend that got an 03 GTI, Lux, leather, 17's from my dealer - he paid $850 under MSRP plus they threw in the heavy duty GTI rubber floor mats. He wanted Silverstone but all they had in stock was a silver one and two black ones. He was so hyped he couldn't wait for a Silverstone so he got the Reflex silver one - same color as my 02 GTI :-(

johnxyz · October 2002

Is a base Audi TT (fwd) really worth the significant price premium over a Golf if they are for all intents and purposes very similar vehicles?

Some Golfs are even built in Germany while TT's are assembled in Hungary.

Love the look of the TT but you hear of reliability/quality control issues as well as the huge $$$ difference. Your thoughts?

ralphieboy · October 2002

I have a 2000 GTI/GLX, and the window on the driver's side recently fell into the door. I called VW customer service, and mentioned that the dealer said it was a common problem. I then asked why a recall was not done, since everyone is prone. VW then arranged for a n/c repair.(my GTI has 49k). If the window problem happens, and it probably will. Go to VW for help.
Good Luck!

gotenks243 · October 2002

As far as I know, all Golfs/GTIs sold in the US are built in Brazil, so that's no real advantage or disadvantage compared to a Hungary built TT.

But yeah, the GTI 1.8t and TT amount to very similar cars with very drastic price differences. It's not worth it to me, especially considering how much more room the GTI has inside for people and stuff, though it may be worth it to some.

A special-edition GTI, like the 337 or the possibly upcoming 20th anniversary edition seem to be the best deal to me.

Mike

nippononly · October 2002

some of the golfs built in Germany? I thought it was just the jettas and beetles that are built in Brazil...also in mexico? The Central/South American VW's are REALLY poorly built - stuff begins to fall apart in less than two years..

gotenks243 · October 2002

I'm pretty sure there are tons of Golfs built in Germany, but they don't come to America that I know of. As far as I know (emphasis on that), all US Jettas/NewBeetles are built in Mexico and all US Golfs/GTIs are built in Brazil. I haven't seen one in lot cruises with something else on the sticker anyway.

If anyone has information to the contrary, feel free to correct me.

Mike

moparbad · October 2002

All GTI and Golf are currently assembled in Brazil. In 1999 some Golf were assembled in Mexico and then assembly was in Germany from 1999 to early 2001, then in early 2001 all Golf and GTI were sourced from Brazil. Jetta Wagon is built in Germany as is the Passat. Jetta Sedan, Cabrio (no longer being made), and New Beetle are assembled in Mexico. Quality seems to be unaffected by country of assembly.

nippononly · October 2002

but long term reliability and repair costs are HEAVILY affected by whether or not the car is built in germany or not.

8u6hfd · October 2002

the Golf variant....the Golf wagon.

The US and Canadian market get the Jetta wagon...others have a Golf front end on it.

yg3 · October 2002

I have a GTI 2001 and recently started a problem with the passenger door lock which was not operating from neither the remote or the door button. I have been twice to the dealer and still trying to figure out what it is. They fix it and breaks the same afternoon and I had to pay since it was out of the basic warranty. Being from Europe I have heard horror stories for the electrical systems of VW and I should have known better...

inigoco · October 2002

The problem is not likely an electrical one since the door locks are vacuum operated. Have the dealer check all that stuff.

inigoco · October 2002

reliability and repair costs for these cars are not affected by where the car is produced. They all use the same part for assembly, they just put them together in different countries. It's not even as though there is a lot of human contact anyway. Vehicles these days are built by machines with humans making sure that everything is moving smoothly. Where the car is built only affects how much it will cost to transport the finished product to the final destination. BMW builds cars here in South Carolina and Mercedes Benz has plants in Alabama also, I don't here anyone claiming they are having problems with their cars because they are not built in Germany. As far as repair cost, that will not change because of where your car is built either. If you need a part it will be the same part that the German or Mexican, or Brazillian plant put on it in the first place, they will all cost the same. You won't get special German-built pricing on any of your parts.

gotenks243 · October 2002

I'm not sure if Mercedes and BMW are good examples. I'm not personally familiar enough with the reliability of the US built models compared to the reliability of the overseas built models, but as far as I know, the Z3, X5, and ML-class don't have a good reputation in that area.

I wonder how the reliability of South African-built vs. German-built 3-series is though. I expect not much difference. I just wonder.

Mike

header2 · October 2002

I'm had my 1.8 GTI, 02 for over a year now, last Monday 1 yr birthday, no complaints with the car since it's a blast to drive. 2 points worth noting though

Although the GTI has a 4 yr warranty, you only get 1 yr for any creaks or rattles from the doors, bodywork, dash etc. This may not be common knowledge since no one told me when I was buying it. After 1 yr if you want a noise looked at it might cost you.

The window problem is very common, the lifters for the glass are half metal/ half plastic and in hot climates with a dark coloured car the temperature in the door will make the plastic brittle and it will break. This happened to me 8 wks ago, both windows failed within 2 weeks of each other, the dealer has been a pain about it saying that it can take up to 8 wks to get the parts. Since this is a known problem, VW should just have these kits at all the dealers, plus they won't replace them until they break.

nippononly · October 2002

are a huge problem in jettas/golfs.

Oftentimes production location of a car will determine the parts source for the car too. A lot of the japanese models built in the U.S. use U.S. parts for the engine and occasionally tranny as well, and certainly for incidentals like windows, switches, and the like. Why pay the premium to import them from another country?

It is not uncommon to see reliability problems crop up even in Toyotas and Hondas, where the ones that are American-built are more problem-prone than the ones imported from Japan. That is one of the reasons they have mandated having that sticker on the car saying where the car was built when it is new. You can actually walk around a Toyota dealership right now, for instance, and see Japan-built corollas and American-built ones, and pick one based on its Japan build, if you like. or whatever.

Point is, where a car is built changes a lot about its build quality and parts make-up. Don't you think otherwise, that it is just a little bit of a coincidence that passats have average to above average reliability as a group, while beetles are some of the most unreliable and repair-prone cars out there today, with jettas not far behind?

nippononly · October 2002

It is much more than a coincidence that the VW models sold here that are built in Mexico or Brazil are so much more problem-prone than the identical models sold elsewhere in the world...

inigoco · October 2002

Last I checked there aren't nearly the number of problems with New Beetles as there are with the Jettas even though the NB's are built in Mexico. The Jettas and Golf seem to have the most problems, especially the cheaper versions like the GL's. The uplevel version of each as well as the GTI's have less problems overall and they are not all built in Germany either. I believe it all comes down to "You get what you pay for" If you want a better built car, you pay for it.

nippononly · October 2002

for $18-20K, "you get what you pay for"..in other words for all that money (maybe not a lot to carmakers, but darn plenty to many of the people buying these cars) you don't get a car you can count on NOT to cost you an arm and a leg in repairs and leave you stranded or annoyed on a regular basis?

mikos · October 2002

uh.. they may be wrong.. but according to Edmunds.. the 2003 GTI VR6 is built in Wolfsburg, Germany. AND 20 - 20.5G for this car with the luxury package... isn't going to happen. Invoice on that particular VW with that package is about $21,600. Add a grand for the dealer and you're looking at 22.5 plus T&L. however, I wish you well finding a 2003 GTI VR6 that hasn't been bundled with leather.. I've yet to see one. so that'll tack on another $800.

inigoco · October 2002

I'm not sure where the VR6 GTI prices came from, but you can get the 1.8T GTI for $19K-$21K, but yes the VR6's are more expensive, but to some it's worth it. Especially since they now have the 200 HP VR6 and the 6-speed trans. You can get the VR6's without leather as well since VW changed the model designations for 2002. I understand what you are saying, however, that dealers are more likely to have leather-equipped seats in them already, which is pretty likely. I guess the best way to go about it is to just order your car from the factory and get everything you want and nothing you don't.

rickrover · October 2002

You guys talk about these vague "problems" with the GTI/ Golf but other than the window regulator issue these are not problematic cars. My Brazilian built 02 1.8t GTI is year old with 12k miles and hasn't had a single problem - not even a window regulator failure. I've done a lot of performance modifications to it and take it to the track and SCCA Autocross it on a regular basis. It's driven a lot harder than typical without a problem. And the problem with the regulators has been solved - the old regulators had nylon clips that failed - VW has redesigned the regulators with metal clips and are even replacing window regulators on cars that are out of warranty free of charge. All late 02 on Golfs and Jettas have the new regulators.

The biggest beef on the New Beetles was a hatch rattle that VW solved a long time ago. Like any car company VW addresses problems and is continually upgrading their cars.

I get tired of hearing a particular car company's vehicles built outside of their home base aren't as well built. Last time I checked cars are mostly built by robot and most anything that fails in a car is a particular part that could have been made anywhere - the failed German part didn't fall off the car because a Brazilian was having a bad day at the VW plant - get real. I hope you aren't implying that Brazilians or Mexicans are somehow inferior and can't build a quality product under VW's supervision - that would be racist. Or Americans for that matter in the case of the X5 and Z3 - are German citizens the only people that can build cars properly? Do you think VW or BMW (or Mercedes, Honda, Toyota, Subaru, etc, etc) are worried that Mexicans, Brazilians or Americans are building their cars and screwing up their reputations??? thats just stupid

I bought an AMERICAN BUILT X5 3.0 last year about a month before the BRAZILIAN BUILT GTI - no problems with the X either and 3 of my friends have various Z3's that are fanatical about them. Not once did I ever consider where either vehicle was built.

The GTI and X5 are extremely well made cars, top notch fit and finish, flawless paint, rock solid dependability, BMW and VW don't build inferior products period.

nippononly · October 2002

except for the X5s that went up in flames...those were probably inferior...LOL

jsg5 · October 2002

I test drove a 2003 GTI 1.8T today, and the salesman said they were built in Brazil and that VW had fixed the window problem in the 03 models by replacing the plastic clip with the more durable metal part.
I liked the car a lot but am leery of overall reliability.
A friend of mine has the 01 Beetle and has had some minor repairs to things like control switches and knobs.

inigoco · October 2002

The window reulator problem has been solved. All VW's built after July 2002 have the new metal clips to replace the problematic older, plastic clips.

As far as all the other problems, like those that jsg5 stated, those are minor problems that shouldn't steer one away from a certain car. I have an '02 GTI 1.8T, my friend has a '00 Beetle Turbo with a number of mods, another friend has an '02 Jetta 1.8T, another with a '00 Jetta 1.8T and I also have a friend with a '99 Jetta 2.0. The only one of us who's had any kind of a problem was the friend I have with the '99. She bought hers used and it wasn't in the best shape when she got it, so that doesn't exactly say anything bad about VW, just the previous owner. All of our other cars have performed perfectly well. Any kind of a problem with control switches or knobs is surely something minor that could happen to any other vehicle. If something simple like that is enough to get you to decide against a car, then you likely won't be buying one any time soon because those types of repairs are performed on all vehicles, not just VW's. The switches and knobs are not usually even built by the car company itself, they farm their work out to other supliers and just install the parts in their factory. So, it's also likely that many of these switches and knobs are built by the same company that would supply many other car manufacturers as well.

VW GTI (All styles)

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