Lease Questions - Ask Here

mobofe · November 2003

HI Car_man,

Coming to you again from NH/VT for more lease info - am shopping for 2, so please indulge.:)

Looking for the september residuals and base money factors for:

Audi A4 1.8 Quattro and A4 3.0 Quattro, Automatic

G35 Sedan Automatic

Avalon XL Automatic

36 month lease, 15000 miles.

Are there any lease support/rebates for these vehicles this month?

thanks again.

stevel12 · November 2003

Dear Carman,

Could you please tell me the residual value and money factor for the 04 Nissan Altima 2.5S with convenience pkg + ABS and the 04 Toyota Camry LE
with convenience plus pkg + ABS? Are there any incentives?

Lease terms of 36 and 39 months, 15K miles.

I live in Tamarac FL 33321.

Thanks!

snow_boarder · November 2003

Thanks Carman for your great info. I was just interested in a new BMW truck coming up this month, it's X3 not X5. If you have any numbers for those, would be great!

Thanks again

chrism124 · November 2003

Can you confirm for me the residual percentages for the 04 TL w/ Nav based upon a 42 month lease. Two dealers have quoted me 57% and 55% for a 12k & 15k respectively (vs. 59% & 57% as posted in your message).

Best regards,
Chris

stevel12 · November 2003

Dear Carman,
Could you please tell me the residual value and money factor for the 04 Toyota Corolla LE
with cruise control and ABS? Are there any incentives?
Lease terms of 36 and 39 months, 15K miles.
I live in Tamarac FL 33321.
Thanks!

frugger · November 2003

Hey Carman,

Do you know what the money factor and residual are on the RL auto with Nav. Looking at a 3 year lease with either 12K or 15K miles per year.

Thanks!

wantanmdx · November 2003

Carman,

I am trying to lease a 2004 Acura MDX and dealers are throwing a variety of numbers at me with residuals that look reasonable but questionable money factors. Could you please tell me what AHFC is offering for 42 month and 48 month leases with 12K miles per year? Is there any way to go directly to AHFC to avoid haggling with a dealer over the money factor?

CarMan@Edmunds · November 2003

Hi mobofe. You're shopping for two new cars, huh? You've got quite a task ahead of you. I actually think that it sounds like fun. I'm going to be in the market for a new ride in a few months myself. Decisions decisions... OK, let's take a look at the models that you are considering. If you were to lease a 2004 Audi A4 1.8 Sedan with quattro through Audi Financial Services this month for 3 years with 15,000 miles per, its base lease money factor and residual value should be .00145 and 56%, respectively. If you were to lease a 2004 Infiniti G35 Sedan through Infiniti Financial Services this month for years with 15,000 miles per, its base lease money factor and residual value should be .00200 and 57%, respectively. Last but not least, if you were to lease a 2004 Toyota Avalon XL through Toyota Financial Services this month for 3 years with 15,000 miles per, its base lease money factor and residual value should be around .00220 and 53%. Unfortunately, none of the aforementioned cars have any sort of lease cash available on them at this time.

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austin6498 · November 2003

Like to know if I'am getting a good deal on a 2003 FX35 with RWD
a local dealer gave me a lease figure of $518 a month for 48 months with $1000.00 down 12000 miles a year
Vehicle comes with the tech. package
need information soon.

mobofe · November 2003

Appreciate your prompt response. Testdriving those cars is definitely the fun part...it gets ugly once you figure out your budget can't support that dream machine, much less 2.

If I may ask....what are you driving and what types of vehicles you're looking to test out. i just had an end of lease inspection on my maxima today...more dings than i would've liked and am sure looking forward to a new ride.

rbr · November 2003

A few days ago I asked Car_man for input on a number of lease rates for a Lexus ES 330, Acura TL, Honda Accord V6 w/NAV and Saab 9-5 Arc.

My final decision was to finance a purchase (not lease) of the Honda Accord. I made this decision in part because Honda is offering purchase financing rates (1.9% for 36 months) on the Accord, which is below the lease rate. Also, I was able to use the lease information provided by Car_man to input correct numbers into the Edmunds lease v. buy calculator, which determined the savings to purchasing the car to be to be about $20/month.
Additionally, after leasing my last two cars (both Saabs), I must say there's is -- at least to me -- a distinct feeling of "emptiness" after making all those payments and having nothing to show for it at the end of the term. There's also the constant concern about every dent or ding adding up to tunrback fees, even though I am meticulous about maintaining my car. I know these are ultimately emotional considerations that are probably not supported by the hard math (for instance, what if I would take the $12,000 cash down payment I'm going to make on the Accord and lets say, buy 500 shares of Cisco or, for that matter, an stock index mutual fund), but for me its the right decision.
Car_man -- thanks again -- you're a saint. Your politness and generosity to all posters is a model for all of us. By the way, you have also seen me post a couple time about my wife's leased Toyota Land Cruiser -- if we dont buy it at the end of the lease, I'm sure I'll be back for some SUV and minivan numbers!
Rich

clpurnell · November 2003

Austin I would say that is a good deal. I leased mine for 39 months and paid 625 with 0 down. So it looks like a fair deal.

clpurnell · November 2003

Thanks for the pilot numbers. Could you give me 39 and 48 month numbers on an 04 Pathfinder Armada SE 4x2. Looking for 15k miles per year.

Thanks Again

austin6498 · November 2003

Thanks Clpurnell

doccp · November 2003

Hi! Car_man,
My friend owns Audi A6 2.7QT AWD, 2001 make, has only 15,000 miles on it. His three year lease is set to expire in four months.He pays around $700/mth and the buy back option is at $ 21,5000. I really like the car and want to buy it. What are the options:
1. Can I assume the lease about a month before it's over and buy back the car.
2. Let him buy back and sell it to mee but then we may have to pay double sales tax
3. Or any other ideas

doccp

landru2 · November 2003

You may not be able to take over his lease. Many lease companies don't allow lease transfers when there is less than 6 months remaining.

Technically, he will have to buy it from the lease company. Then you will buy it from your friend. As far as taxes go, he will likely have to pay tax on the buy out amount. Then it will be a private sale to you. Are private sales taxed in your area? If they are, I doubt you'll be able to avoid paying taxes. The taxman is not usually easy to fool. :^)

austin6498 · November 2003

Looking to lease a FX35 with Technology Pkg.
I thought I had a deal with a local Dealer for a 2003 FX35 with tech. Pkg for $518.00 a month 48 month lease with $1000.00 down.
When I got to the dealer it seams that they made a mistake on the lease numbers.
The lease was now $575.00 and $1500.00 down
I did not go for the deal and left the dealership.
like to know if anyone has lease this vehicle in the Tampa FL.(area) for less then 575.00 for a 48 month lease.

ponytrekker · November 2003

Don't buy that car. Just give me his phone number.

That is an outrageous deal on a great car - assuming he sells it to you for his cost. Can't he just sell it to you and pay off the buy out?

landru2 · November 2003

It isn't technically his to sell until he buys it from the leasing co. Typically what I do with customers in that situation is have the new buyer write a check payable to ABC Lease Co. AND the lessee. The lessee endorses the check so that the lease co. can cash it. This prevents the lessee from running off with the new buyers money and never paying off the lease. Two bills of sale are required - one from the lease co. to the lessee and one from the lessee to the new buyer.

CarMan@Edmunds · November 2003

Hi stevel12. Let's take a look at the lease current lease programs for the cars that you are interested in. If you were to lease a 2004 Nissan Altima 2.5S through Nissan Motor Acceptance Corp. this month for 36 months with 15,000 miles per, its base lease money factor and residual value should be .00141 and 56%, respectively. The numbers for an otherwise identical 39 month lease of this car should be .00145 and 55%.

As far as the 2004 Toyota Camry LE goes, Toyota's lease program for this car varies by region. To complicate the situation even more, as I am sure you are aware all of the Toyotas that are sold in Toyota's Southeast region are sold through a distributor that sets up its own lease and incentives programs. I am sorry to say that I have not seen the completely separate lease program for Toyota's Southeast region and will not be able to give you an idea of what the Camry's numbers are like in your area at this time.

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CarMan@Edmunds · November 2003

Ahhhh, I see. I didn't notice that you said the X3. I actually saw one in a local parking lot a few weeks ago. It had the badges all taped up, but it was obvious what it was if one knew what to look for. It looked pretty neat. Unfortunately I have not seen any sort of lease program for the soon to be released X3 yet. I suspect that BMW will not provide any sort of lease support on it initially. If that is the case and you were to lease one through BMW Financial Services, you would have to use its standard lease money factors. These factors often vary from month to month. Please feel free to check back with me in December and I will be more than happy to let you know if I have heard anything new.

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CarMan@Edmunds · November 2003

Hi again Chris. I thought that you meant a 39 month lease. The residual values that you were quoted by the dealers that you are working with are absolutely correct. I apologize for any confusion that this may have caused. There must be something funny in the water here today. Generally speaking, the residual values that dealers quote consumers will be correct. This is because most banks publish lists of residual values for vehicles that dealers have no authority to alter. The lease money factors are the important numbers to research because banks usually give dealers the ability to mark-up money factors to add additional profit to deals.

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CarMan@Edmunds · November 2003

Hello frugger. I would be more than happy to help you out. If you were to lease a 2004 Acura RL through American Honda Finance Corp. this month for 3 years with 15,000 miles per, its base lease money factor and residual value should be .00032 and 47%, respectively. The money factor for an otherwise identical lease with only 12,000 miles per year would be exactly the same, but the residual value would increase by 2%.

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CarMan@Edmunds · November 2003

Hi wantanmdx. You certainly have a very appropriate user id. I'm surprised that one wasn't taken already. It must have been your lucky day

. Here is the information that you are looking for. I have not seen the 42 month program for this model, but if you were to lease a 2004 Acura MDX (non-Touring and without the rear entertainment or navigation systems) through American Honda Finance Corp. this month for 48 months with 12,000 miles per year, its base lease money factor and residual value should be .00200 and 55%, respectively. Unfortunately, AHFC does not deal directly with the general public. Consumers who wish to lease through AHFC must deal with the F&I departments at dealerships.

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CarMan@Edmunds · November 2003

Hi there austin6498. I would be more than happy to calculate a sample lease payment for you on the vehicle that you are interested in using Infiniti's base lease program. However, in order for me to do so, I need you to provide me with its full MSRP and selling price. The selling price is an extremely important number for you to know anyways. Remember that the selling prices of leased vehicles can be negotiated just as if you were paying cash for them. Without knowing this number, it is difficult for consumers to assess what sort of deal they are getting. Let me know and I will give you an idea of what this vehicle's lease payment should be like.

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CarMan@Edmunds · November 2003

No problem, mobofe. Right now I am leasing a V6 Accord Coupe. I am not sure what I want for my next vehicle. Unfortunately my family situation dictates that both coupes and sticks are out, booo hoooo

. Forgive my crying. I am probably going to look at the Audi A4, BMW 3-Series, perhaps the VW Passat, for a while I was fascinated with the Toyota Scion xB just because it was different and could be personalized very easily but I have cooled on that idea a little bit, mostly because I have a feeling that it is going to be a dog with an automatic, I'll probably consider the new Accord V6, the Acura TL, and perhaps the Infiniti G35. As you can see I definitely have not made up my mind yet, but have a few months to do so.

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CarMan@Edmunds · November 2003

Thanks for the kind words, Rich. I am glad that I was able to help you out. Also, thanks for taking the time to check back and let us know how everything turned out. Honda definitely has some attractive special financing rates on the Accord right now. I would seriously consider financing one if I was currently in the market for one. Enjoy your new car!

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CarMan@Edmunds · November 2003

You're welcome, clpurnell. Let's take a look at the Pathfinder Armada for you. If you were to lease a 2004 Nissan Pathfinder Armada SE 4x2 through Nissan Motor Acceptance Corp. this month for 39 months with 15,000 miles per, its base lease money factor and residual value should be .00219 and 53%, respectively. The numbers for an otherwise identical 48 month lease of this model should be .00225 and 46%.

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CarMan@Edmunds · November 2003

Greetings, doccp. That sure sounds like a sweet car. You may be able to assume your friend's lease on this car. Different banks have different policies on this sort of transaction. You need to contact Audi Financial Services, or whichever bank it is being leased through directly in order to find out if you will be allowed to do so. If you can't do this, you could always have your friend purchase it and sell it to you as you mentioned, but you may indeed to get taxed twice for doing so, as if they don't get enough of our money already

. In order to avoid paying tax on the car twice you may be able to work with an Audi dealership to have them take the car at the end of the lease and sell it to you. I would assume that any dealer that does this would want to make some money on the transaction though. So your best option would be to assume the lease, but as landru2 mentioned they may not allow you to do so.

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austin6498 · November 2003

Thanks.Car Man
Numbers are:
MSRP=$44145 Selling price $39,500 12,000 or 15,000 miles a year.would also like to buy vehicle at end of lease.
Looking for 39,42,48 month lease with $1000 down

a6biturbo · November 2003

Looking for residuals and money factors for a 2004 allroad 2.7T with Tiptronic (automatic). 42 and 48 month would be just fine but need 12K and 15K. I have last months which were 51% and .0018 for 48 months and 55% and .0018 for 42 months based on 12K a year. Need November rates please. I'm in Ohio. TIA
George
2004 Audi S4
formerly: 01 A6 2.7Tq MT6

doccp · November 2003

Thanks Car_man and landru2

doccp

smason1978 · November 2003

Heya Car_man,

I have a question about rebates & incentives.

I qualify for the Mazda S-Plan through work and am looking at a Protege for my wife.

We get a good deal on it already, but I also see on this website there are...

$500 Grad School money (I am in grad school)
$2500 Manufacturer to Customer
$500 Manufacturer to Dealer

Do I get all or any of this money? The trick question is do I get this money IN ADDITION to my S-Plan price? If so, I'm going to the dealer today to pick up our new Protege.

According to the Ford S-Plan website, "19. Am I eligible for other incentives?
Yes, for most. Partner Recognition participants are eligible for all public incentives and many incentives normally paid to the dealer. There are some offers that are not compatible with this offer. Your dealer can best determine which incentives you are eligible for. "

THANKS!!!!
Link to Rebate offers page
http://www.edmunds.com/new/2003/mazda/protege/100122420/incentive- s.html?vdp=off&setzip=63031&state=MO&tid=edmunds.n.in- centivesindex.incentives.3.5.Mazda

chrism124 · November 2003

The residual & m.f. information that you provide does this change monthly or quarterly? It is my understanding once you look in there is a grace period where the dealer will hold the rate & residual. My lease will be through Honda Financial.

Another question for you regarding m.f.s. According to information provided by you recently, the current m.f. from Honda Financial is .0020 (TL & MDX lease). I spoke with three different dealers and I have received three different factors of .0023, .0024 and .0025. I know this is their way of making back-ended profit. When I presented the dealers with the .0020 base factors, they all stated that my information was incorrect. My question for you, is the F&I person obligated to show us the rate provided to them by the lending institution (such as Honda Financial)? Or does it simply come down to my negotiating skills.

Regards,
Chris

dayers · November 2003

Hello Car_man,

I was curious about leases on 2003 BMW's. Specifically, 2003 BMW 325i sedan (list $35095). I live in Alabama and would be interested in a 36 month, 12K miles per year lease. I assume that residual % drops is lower on the 2003 vs the 2004? Also, any issues with leasing a 2003 when 2004's are out?

Thanks

CarMan@Edmunds · November 2003

You're welcome, austin6498. Lets run some numbers and see what sort of lease payment we come up with. According to my calculations, if you were to lease a 2003 Infiniti FX35 2WD (let me know if you are interested in the AWD version instead) with an MSRP of $44,145 and a selling price of $39,500 through Infiniti Financial Services this month for 39 months with 15,000 miles per year, your zero down, pre-tax monthly lease payment should be around $544. The payments for the other options that you mentioned are as follows, $534/mo. for a 39 month 12k lease, $573/mo. for a 42 month 15k lease, $563/mo. for a 42 month 12k lease, $632/mo. for a 48 month 15k lease, and $612/mo. for a 48 month 12k lease. As you can see, the 39 month term is definitely the "sweet spot" for this model's lease program.

I always advise consumers against putting money down when leasing vehicles. You would be better off not putting $1,000 down when leasing this vehicle because if it is stolen and never recovered or totaled in an accident during your lease term, your insurance company essentially pays off the bank that you are leasing it through and your down payment essentially disappears.

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CarMan@Edmunds · November 2003

Hi George. Did you say in your post that you are currently driving an Audi S4. If so, I'm jealous. I really like that car. Here is the information that you requested for the other vehicle that you are interested in. If you were to lease a 2004 Audi allroad 2.7T through Audi Financial Services this month for 42 months with 15,000 miles per year, its base lease money factor and residual value should be .00150 and 50%, respectively. The numbers for an otherwise identical 48 month lease should be .00160 and 46%. If you were to lease this model with only 12,000 miles per year, its residual values would be 2% higher.

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landru2 · November 2003

FWIW, with Ford anyway, the only incentive they don't allow with their X-plan pricing is the grad rebate. All other rebates and dealer cashes apply.

However, you may want to clarify whether the price you have been given already includes those incentives. There is paperwork that needs to be completed by you and dealer to account for the incentive money so it is unlikely that the dealer would attempt to scoop the money for themselves. Knowing this, this may have just quoted you with the incentives already deducted.

CarMan@Edmunds · November 2003

No problem, occp.

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CarMan@Edmunds · November 2003

Yes, smason1978, consumers who purchase through manufacturers' supplier or employee purchase programs usually have all of the available consumer cash and dealer cash incentives subtracted from their special prices. Having said this, certain permanent programs, such as college grad cash are not always compatible with these purchase plans. You need to check with the dealer that you are working with to find out for certain which incentives are compatible with this program.

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CarMan@Edmunds · November 2003

Hi Chris. The expiration dates for manufacturers' lease programs vary from company to company. Some manufacturers publish a new program every single month. Others issue one every two or even every three months. Of course, they always reserve the right to alter their programs prior to their scheduled termination dates. I believe that American Honda Finance Corp.'s current lease program is scheduled to run through December 1st on the Acura RL and through December 31st on most other models, unless it revises its standard lease money factors before that date. Dealers are under absolutely no obligation to show you a bank's base lease program. Whether you get them to lease you a car or truck using a bank's base lease money factor all depends upon how good a negotiator you are.

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CarMan@Edmunds · November 2003

Hi dayers. BMW is no longer providing any sort of lease support on its 2003 models. It replaced its special lease money factors on '03s with dealer cash. Specifically, it is providing $2,000 dealer cash on the 2003 325i this month. If you decide to lease this car, you may use this cash to negotiate an attractive capitalized cost and then lease it through BMW Financial Services' standard lease program or through some other bank. BMW FS' current 3 year, 12,000 miles per base lease money factor and residual value for this car are .00225 and 56%, respectively. The fact that the 2004 3-Series are out definitely has a negative impact upon the '03 models' residual values. You may still be able to achieve a reasonable lease payment on a 2003 model, even with these low residuals, if you negotiate a low enough selling price.

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dayers · November 2003

Thanks for the info.

Could you give me the similar lease data for the 2004 (325i sedan, 36 months, 12K miles per year, Alabama).

CarMan@Edmunds · November 2003

You're very welcome, dayers. If you were to lease a 2004 BMW 325i through BMW FS this month for 3 years with 12,000 miles per, its base lease money factor and residual value should be .00215 and 63%, respectively.

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ricochet600 · November 2003

Hey Car_man,

You helped me out in leasing two cars a while back in 2001 (an IS300 and an Accord)...it's good to see you're still here. I had a couple of questions I was hoping you could answer.

I know that residual value (as calculated when starting a lease) diminishes as the year goes on, and drops dramatically once the new year model, let's say, 2004, comes out. Assuming that the 2004 model contains no improvements/price changes from the 2003, and assuming incentives and money factors are equal, am I correct in thinking that it would be cheaper to lease the 2004 (simply based on a higher residual)? Realistically though, in this type of situation, is it better to buy before the new model year comes out?

Also, let's say that you have someone like me, who would like to drive a new car every 3 years. Based on that preference/condition, would purchasing and then selling the car still be financially prudent for me (assuming that the current residual value that would've been used for the lease ends up being accurate at the end of 3 years)?

Thanks,

Mike

CarMan@Edmunds · November 2003

Welcome back, Mike. You're making me feel old

. You are absolutely correct. Assuming that there are no cash incentives or special money factors and that one can not negotiate a much lower selling price on the 2003 model, the higher residual values that a 2004 model would have at this point would actually make it less expensive than an '03 to lease. In this type of situation it would indeed be better to lease a 2003 model earlier in the model year. However, this is a fairly unusual situation because most manufacturers provide some sort of incentives to help their dealers unload their leftover inventory. This support may come in the form of special lease money factors, or very late in the model year it most likely is consumer or dealer cash. When this support is combined with the fact that dealers are usually willing to provide attractive discounts on leftover models one can often negotiate a pretty good deal on a 2003 at this point.

Assuming that a manufacturer's residual values are accurate, there is little difference between financing a new car or truck and selling it after three years and just leasing it for three years. Of course, the interest is calculated a little differently on leases, but to make up for this leases protect consumers from diminished value when their vehicles are in accidents. Unfortunately, it is difficult to generalize about whether it is better to lease or purchase vehicles because it will all depend upon the lease program that is available on the vehicle that you are interested in. Some models lease very well, well enough that leasing may be more attractive than buying, others do not lease well at all.

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earcom · November 2003

Greetings Car_man,

Edmunds is showing a lease for a 2004 Acura RSX 5spd with the following terms: 229/month, 48/months, and a $1375 cap reduction. Is it possible in cases such as this to improve things further by negotiating an additional cap reduction? Can you provide the money factor and residual for this lease?

Given todays discussion about 2003 models, perhaps a 2003 Passat might make for an attractive lease when the current cash incentives are taken into consideration. What are the residuals, money factors etc. for a 2003 5spd manual Passat for 36 and 48 months with 12,000 miles? Are the numbers different for the wagon?

Sorry for asking so many questions. Thanks in advance for your consideration.

Thank you, Erich

drburns · November 2003

Hi there. Great forum!!

I'm looking at the Infinity 2003 FX35 AWD with Sport package ($41K MSRP) and the 2003 FX45 AWD with Premium package ($47K MSRP)

Lease terms of 39, 42, or 48 months with 15K a year

Can you give me the lease money factor and residual values for these two?

Not sure if it matters, but I'm in NC.

Thanks...David

s852 · November 2003

A few years ago, I would sometimes see subsidized and advertised 24 month lease deals, but I haven't seen anything in a long time.

I have looked at leasing for the least few years, but still always end up purchasing in the end. I'm looking at leasing again for a future vehicle, but so far I haven't found a lease deal on a car I wanted that was going to work out cheaper than just getting a very good purchase deal on a vehicle that retains its value well and reselling it on my own schedule (less than 36 months).
In my case I actually prefer to change cars roughly every 2 years. I haven't found any good deals on 24 month leases, so I have made out better by financing with zero down for 60 months, then selling at roughly 24 months.
And , yes, I was able to do it without being "upside down" in the loan at 24 months despite putting no money down. In the past I have purchased new Hondas for about invoice price and resold in less than 24 months for more than the loan pay off amount while still having a lower monthly payment than any "zero down" 24 month lease I could find at the time had.

Are there any manufactures with aggressive 24 month lease programs?

CarMan@Edmunds · November 2003

Hi Erich. You can never ask too many questions

. I am familiar with the lease that Acura is advertising on the 2004 RSX this month. Interestingly enough, they are promoting this lease even though they technically are not providing any sort of lease support on this model. They are able to achieve this reasonable monthly payment without any support because Acuras traditionally have very solid residual values and because American Honda Finance Corp.'s standard lease money factors are usually reasonably low. The $1,375 capitalized cost reduction that is mentioned in this ad is essentially a down payment that needs to be paid by the person who is leasing the car. Let's take a closer look at this offer and see if there is any room for negotiation. It is based upon a 2004 Acura RSX with cloth and a manual transmission. This car has a full MSRP of $20,570 and a dealer invoice price of 18,806. The capitalized cost for this advertised lease is $18,682. when we add the down payment back into it, we arrive at an approximate selling price of $20,057. this means that the deal is based upon a price that is about $1,250 over invoice. As you can see, I definitely think that there is room for negotiation.

I'm not sure how attractive a lease would be on a 2003 Passat would be at this point because Volkswagen has terminated its lease support on 2003 models. If I was in the market for one, I personally would probably take advantage of the dealer cash and dealers' desire to clear leftover models off of their lots and finance the vehicle. Having said this, I would be more than happy to give you an idea of what VW Credit's unsupported lease program is like on the '03 Passat right now. However, in order for me to do so, I need you to tell me exactly what model you are interested in, i.e. a Passat Sedan GL, a Passat Wagon GLX, etc... Once I have this information I will be able to help you out.

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