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  • CarMan@EdmundsCarMan@Edmunds Member Posts: 38,514
    Hi hspark. I don't remember discussing the lease program for the ES 330 recently. Who knows though, there has been a ton of traffic in this discussion lately. Either way, I would be more than happy to talk with you about it. Lexus Financial Services' base lease money factors vary by region. I will provide you with the program that it is running in the majority of the country. It should be the one that would be used to calculate your payments, unless you are on the West Coast. If so, let me know and I will provide you with the appropriate information for your neck of the woods. If you were to lease a 2004 Lexus ES 330 through LFS this month for 3 years, its base lease money factor should be .00180.

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  • CarMan@EdmundsCarMan@Edmunds Member Posts: 38,514
    Hi Dennis. Did I say in an earlier post that TFS' 3 year 15,000 miles per year residual value for a 2004 Toyota Sienna is that low? If I did, I made a mistake and am truly sorry. TFS' current residual value for a 3 year 15k lease of a 2004 Toyota Sienna (non-Limited) is 60%. This is still lower than Honda's 3 yr. / 15k residual value of 63% for the Odyssey EX, but there is not nearly as big a difference as it appeared. Sorry for the confusion.

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  • scottl2scottl2 Member Posts: 3
    Car man,
    I notice in alot of your responses you comment that the manufacturer is not offering any "lease support" on certain cars. What does that mean and how can we determine if the current manufacturer's lease terms are somewhat of a bargain. Also what is considered a desirable money factor? I am interested in an Infiniti G35 sedan if that helps. Thanks for your input.
  • infinitimninfinitimn Member Posts: 146
    Seasons Greetings to you too Carman. Your response to me about a 62% 36 month 10K residual in message 8697 is inconsistent with your response in 8670. In that response you stated that 62% was the residual for 15K miles and 64% for 12K miles.

    Is the 10 K that low because I am including NAV system?
  • cdt1cdt1 Member Posts: 10
    car_man,

    I apologize for the oversight. The MSRP on the 04 Passat would be $25,635. Thanks again.

    Chris
  • hsparkhspark Member Posts: 15
    and I have one more question. I am living in NY.
    Then what is residual value and money factor is still same as what you mentioned?

    Thank you.
  • mobofemobofe Member Posts: 51
    hi car_man and all,

    just wanted to let you know about my _final_ decision on the car. I was initially looking at leasing an audi A4 but ended up financing an Acura TL 2004. Thanksgiving weekend, i just dropped by the acura dealership in worcester MA for the heck of it - it was much more than a souped-up accord and the interior is amazingly comparable to the A4 (which still wins out on exterior styling).

    Nevertheless, i guess what might be of interest to this board is what I was getting for quotes on the cars in the NH/MA/VT area. The best quote for the audi before i changed gears:

    Audi A4 1.8T auto (Prem/Light/cold package - MSRP $32565+ $150 MA emissions control): $420/month/36 month/15K miles (not including tax). If I had bothered to negotiate further, would probably be able to get it down another $10-$15.

    As for the Acura TL 2004 non-nav + protection package, no lease quotes but the purchase price was $2000 below msrp of $33,195. If you in the NH/MA/VT area, do NOT be fooled by the dealers giving you the schtick about this car being so hot that it only goes for MSRP. If you leasing, using the residual and MF figures that car_man provided, you would be talking about a $395 monthly payment (not including tax) which I think is absolute kick-[non-permissible content removed] since my 2000 maxima lease only went for a few dollars less. December seems like a great time to buy a car and if you can compromise a little on the color (i.e. buy a car off the dealer inventory), you'll have more leverage.

    Let me know if you any of you need additional info.
  • metmdxmetmdx Member Posts: 270
    Hi again:

    Obviously there are no programs/incentives by Acura on the MDX, so what are their base money factor and residuals on the Touring Model (MSRP 39500)and what would a 36 month lease for 15K miles be, paying taxes and fees upfront?

    Being in NY, they now have this silly loan/balloon scenario, and I want to compare their numbers to a "regular" lease.
    Do you have any specific info that we could come up with a calculation here?

    As always, many thanks.
    metmdx
  • metmdxmetmdx Member Posts: 270
    As long as I'm here:

    My decision is these two (MDX/4Runner).
    As you indicated in the APR/Incentives thread, Toyota has 500 cash on the LTD.
    Given that, what would the lease be on the 4Runner
    at MSRP of 38300 (sales price of of 35500) doing 3 years/15k. What are the money factor/residuals?

    As again always, thanks.
    metmdx
  • adpcsadpcs Member Posts: 59
    Hi Carman. I know you can't predict the future, but the current residual on a 2wd RX (with nav / no RSES) is 44% (48 mo. / 60K Miles). Based on your info, does Lexus change their residuals monthly or quarterly? If you think quarterly, does that mean it will drop in January, and if so, do you have a guess (based on past history) on what it would be? Also, is it possible for two different dealers to have two different residual values? Thanks in advance again!
  • CarMan@EdmundsCarMan@Edmunds Member Posts: 38,514
    Hi scottl2. When I say that a manufacturer is offering lease support on a particular model, it means that its captive finance company's lease money factors for it are lower than its standard lease money factors. Having said this, some banks' standard money factors really aren't that bad. You can calculate an approximate interest rate equivalent for lease money factors by multiplying them by 2400. For example, BMW Financial Services' base lease money factor for the 2004 5-Series (a vehicle that does not have any lease support on it at this time) is currently .00235. This is equivalent to an interest rate of right around 5.64%, which isn't that great. On the other hand, Saab is providing lease support on the 2004 9-3 Linear this month. If you were to lease one through its captive finance company for 3 years, its base lease money factor should be .00107, or around 2.57%, which is pretty good. Infiniti Financial Services' 3 year base lease money factor for the model that you are interested in, the '04 G35 Sedan, is currently .00180, or around 4.32%. This isn't great, but its not terrible either. The thing that helps this car is that it has strong residual values, so your lease payments will be lower on it than they would be on a vehicle with low residual values.

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  • CarMan@EdmundsCarMan@Edmunds Member Posts: 38,514
    Infinitimn, to calculate 10,000 miles per year leases for vehicles run through BMW Financial Services, take its 15,000 miles per year residuals and add 3%. So if these cars' 3 year 15,000 miles per year residual values were 62%, their 10,000 miles per resids would be 65%. Sorry for the confusion. Have a great weekend.

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  • CarMan@EdmundsCarMan@Edmunds Member Posts: 38,514
    Ahhh the final piece of info. Thanks, Chris. There's no need to apoligize. Let's work up a payment on this car for you. According to my calculations, if you were to lease a 2004 Volkswagen Passat Sedan GLS 1.8T with an MSRP of $25,635 and a selling price of $23,652 through VW Credit this month for 3 years with 15,000 miles per, its zero down, pre-tax monthly payment should be right around $345. If you were to lease an identical vehicle for 3 years but with only 12,000 miles per, its payment would drop to around $331. When negotiating your deal on this car, keep in mind that Volkswagen is providing its dealers with $500 dealer cash on leases through Volkswagen Credit this month. This will definitely help you to negotiate a lower selling price.

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  • CarMan@EdmundsCarMan@Edmunds Member Posts: 38,514
    You're welcome, hspark. The lease money factor that I provided you with in my earlier post would be good for deals made in New York. Lexus financial Services' residual value for a 2004 ES 330 without navigation leased for 3 years with 15,000 miles per should currently be 57%.

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  • CarMan@EdmundsCarMan@Edmunds Member Posts: 38,514
    Thanks for the update, mobofe. I always enjoy reading how community members' deals turn out.

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  • CarMan@EdmundsCarMan@Edmunds Member Posts: 38,514
    You're right about Acura not providing any sort of support on the MDX right now. At least the market for them has softened up a bit. If you live near a major city where there is competition for your business, you should be able to get one for about $1,000 below MSRP. This is a little better than the full MSRP take it or leave it market that existed not that long ago. Let's calculate a few sample lease payments on this vehicle for you and see what we come up with. If you were to lease a 2004 Acura MDX Touring without navigation or the rear entertainment system through American Honda Finance Corp. with an MSRP and selling price of $39,500 this month for 3 years with 15,000 miles per, its zero down, pre-tax monthly lease payment should be right around $585. If you were able to negotiate a $1,000 discount, it would lower the lease payment to about $555 for these terms.

    Car_man
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  • cdt1cdt1 Member Posts: 10
    car-man,

    Thank you very much for your help on the sample lease payment. Would you mind telling me what the residuals and money factors that were used to compute the payment?

    Chris
  • topgun7topgun7 Member Posts: 412
    Hello Car_man, thanks for your information on the Solara SE V6. With the information on the Solara and the response for Accord that you gave others on the board. I changed my mind and started shopping for an Accord EX V6 coupe instead. Looks like the cap cost (still working on it but the initial response is promising), the residual (53% for Solara and 58% for accord), the money factor (0.0022 for solara vs 0.0016 for accord) are all favoring Accord this month. So far, I think I will save about $3500 total (almost a hundred a month) for the 36 months 15k mi per year lease by going to Accord. Thank a bunch for your information. I will let you know how the final number for the Accord come out
  • landinggearlandinggear Member Posts: 22
    Thanks for your reply. I think I'll do as you suggest.
  • avitelliavitelli Member Posts: 3
    Carman:
    I am negotiating a lease on a 04 Acura TL. In working up the price, I received a slight discount off the MSRP, but found that there was $800 added to the discounted MSRP to arrive at the sales price. When I questioned the math I was told that there is a $800 Honda Acquisition/Finance Lease Fee that is added to the CAP Cost. However, this $800 fee is not disclosed in any line item on the invoice or disclosed as a specific cost in the lease. It is said to cover the cost of gap ins and disposition at lease end. There is no security deposit or disposition fee, just this $800 acquisition fee. Can you help me to get comfortable with this or give me some help to make it go away.
  • sillyivansillyivan Member Posts: 21
    Hi there:

    I've been going through previous posts and have been very impressed with the thoughtful advice and info passed on by car man. Hope I can prevail upon you for data on the following vehicles: ES 330, G 35 & Audi A4 (3.0)
    @ 36 mos.

    I've taken a 2 yr. respite from leasing - was a staunch Infiniti customer - love their service, like their product - With very little to go on save for a barely negotiated sticker and was able to get a deal offered of 469 per mo. for 36 mos. + driveoffs (about $780 - 1 mo. lease and license?) The lease manager told me he was able to give me a competitive deal since I'd been a longtime Infiniti financial customer. Guess that's true.

    Would like to plug in the hard numbers on all three vehicles before making my decision.

    Thanks for any help.

    Sullivan
  • buddythedogbuddythedog Member Posts: 5
    Was wondering if you could tell me if these

    figures seem ok or on the high side 39 month / 15k

    04 G35c money factor .00220

             residual 59%

    Also 795 bank fee appears to be non negotiable as it covers GAP?

    I have excellent credit and am a previous

    infiniti customer. Am being told these are

    the numbers usuing Infiniti leasing.

    thank you so much . BTW Im in NJ
  • dominioncarxdominioncarx Member Posts: 6
    Carman--

    Would greatly appreciate any help you can offer: I'm looking to lease a Volvo S80 Turbo--Volvo has a significant dealer incentive now--$5,500, I believe. They also have bought down the MF to the equivalent of about 0.7%. But you can't have both, apparently. If I want to lease under that program, how do I know what selling price to shoot for? I was quoted $42,000, which is below invoice, which makes me think that perhaps there is some incentive money available to me on leases.
  • dcolatrianodcolatriano Member Posts: 5
    A local Philadelphia dealer has quoted me $350 per month over 39 months, 12k miles per year. ZERO down! Price includes tax.

    I am a novice at leasing but this sounds like a good deal.

    What do you think Carman? Is there still more room to work with on this one??

    Thanks
  • liagukliaguk Member Posts: 5
    Hello,
    A question for Carman,
    could you possible locate MF and Residuals for following models for a 36month 15K lease all 2004 models (I looked through the postings but could not find anything):
    Audi 1.8T AWD
    Saab 9-3SS Arc (also does $3,000 incentive available for purchase applies to a lease?)
    BMW 325xi

    And if anybody cares here is some info for a Infinity G35xi (All wheel drive):
    MF .00180
    Residuals
    15K - 57%
    12K - 58%
    10K - 59%

    I'd really appreciate the info.
    Thanks, Liaguk
  • liagukliaguk Member Posts: 5
    Hello,
    The quote for Audi, which dealership it came from, if you don't mind me asking? I am looking for Audi 1.8T around Boston.
    Thanks,
    Liaguk
  • passat_mxpassat_mx Member Posts: 32
    Hi all,
    Carman, is Lexus throwing any leasing support behind the IS300? I'm interested in a 5spd manual + leather, 15K miles/year, 36 mo. lease. What residual and mf should I expect from Lexus Financial Serv.?
    Also, there's a rumor that this model is scheduled for a makeover in 2005. In your opinion, would I be able to get a better leasing deal if I delay my decision until, say, next summer?
    Thanks.
  • mobofemobofe Member Posts: 51
    I dealt with Bernadi Audi - it's a low pressure dealership and i enjoyed dealing with my salesman. If you haven't already, you should go test drive the acura TL - you may be pleasantly surprised like I was. :) You can email me and I'll give you the details. lope@valley.net
  • robbygrobbyg Member Posts: 61
    Hey Car_Man - you helped me 3 years ago when I leased my 2002 Ford Explorer and it's time for me to turn that in for a new lease. Can you post the residual and money factors on 2004 36 month leases I am looking at (12K and 15K also)?

    1. Ford Explorer 2WD XLT 6cyl
    2. Honda Pilot EX 6cyl
    3. Toyota 4Runner Sport Edition 2WD 6cyl

    Thanks!
  • CarMan@EdmundsCarMan@Edmunds Member Posts: 38,514
    Sorry about the delay, metmdx. Here is the rest of the information that you are looking for. Again, I do not believe that Toyota is providing any sort of lease support on the 2004 4Runner at this time. So if you were to lease one through Toyota Financial Services this month, you would have to use its standard lease program. According to the latest information that I have seen, TFS' current 3 year, 15,000 miles per base lease money factor and residual value for the 2004 4Runner SR5 4WD are .00220 and 61%, respectively. Let me know if you are interested in a different trim level of this model. Plugging these numbers and an MSRP of $38,300 and a selling price of $35,500 into my handy dandy lease calculator, I come up with a zero down, pre-tax monthly payment of right around $467.

    Car_man
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  • CarMan@EdmundsCarMan@Edmunds Member Posts: 38,514
    Hi adpcs. As you mentioned, it's tough to predict exactly what a manufacturer or a bank will do with their future programs. Many banks publish new residual values on a monthly basis, while others do so quarterly. Regardless of how often they publish new resids, I anticipate that most banks will publish new residual values in January. This does not necessarily mean that Lexus will lower its residuals on the 2004 RX330, but there definitely is a good chance that they will fall a point or two. Generally speaking, individual dealerships do not have the authority to alter banks' published residual values. The only way that two different dealerships could use different residual values to lease the exact same model is if they are running the leases through different banks.

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  • CarMan@EdmundsCarMan@Edmunds Member Posts: 38,514
    You're very welcome, Chris. I used a lease money factor of .00120 and a residual value of 50% to calculate the 3 year, 15,000 miles per year lease of the 2004 Volkswagen Passat Sedan GLS 1.8T that we were discussing.

    Car_man
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  • CarMan@EdmundsCarMan@Edmunds Member Posts: 38,514
    No problem, topgun7. I am glad that I was able to help you out. Honda definitely has a more attractive lease program on the Accord Coupe than Toyota has on the Solara at this time. To be honest with you, I have always liked the Accord Coupe. It is a lot of car for the money. I'm looking forward to hearing how things turn out. Talk to you soon.

    Car_man
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  • CarMan@EdmundsCarMan@Edmunds Member Posts: 38,514
    You're welcome, landinggear.

    Car_man
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  • CarMan@EdmundsCarMan@Edmunds Member Posts: 38,514
    Avitelli, all banks that lease vehicles to consumers charge lease acquisition fees. Having said this, many banks do allow dealers to "mark-up" their base lease acquisition fees to add additional hidden profit to deals. I believe that American Honda Finance Corp.'s base acquisition fee for leases of Acura models is currently $550. Some banks have increased their acq. fees for leases to consumers who live in New York because of the vicarious liability laws that exist there. As long as you are not in NY, this car's fee should not be any higher than $550. Make sure to insist upon your dealer using AHFC's base fee in your negotiations.

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  • CarMan@EdmundsCarMan@Edmunds Member Posts: 38,514
    Thanks for the compliment, Sullivan. Let's take a look at the current lease programs for the cars that you are interested in. If you were to lease a 2004 Lexus ES 330 through Lexus Financial Services this month for 3 years with 15,000 miles per, its base lease money factor and residual value should be .00180 (.00190 on the West Coast) and 57%, respectively. If you were to lease a 2004 Infiniti G35 Sedan through Infiniti Financial Services this month for 3 years with 15,000 miles per, its base lease money factor and residual value should be .00180 and 59%, respectively. Last but not least, if you were to lease a 2004 Audi A4 3.0L Sedan with quattro through Audi Financial Services at this time for 3 years with 15,000 miles per, its numbers should be .00125 and 55%.

    Please let me know if you have any other questions.

    Car_man
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  • CarMan@EdmundsCarMan@Edmunds Member Posts: 38,514
    Hi buddythedog. I like your username :). I have good news and bad news for you. Which do you want first? The good news is that the dealership that you are working with is being honest with you. The bad news is that Infiniti is not providing any sort of lease support on the '04 G35 Coupe at this time and its base lease money factor of .00220 is a little on the high side. Infiniti Financial Services' base lease money factor is currently only $550. It did increase it recently to $795 for consumers who live in New York or Rhode Island because of their vicarious liability laws, but if you do not live in either of these states, your dealer may be marking-up the acq. fee to add additional profit to your deal.

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  • CarMan@EdmundsCarMan@Edmunds Member Posts: 38,514
    Unfortunately, you are correct, dominioncarx. The dealer cash that Volvo is providing on the 2004 S80, it was $5,000 last month but increased to a huge $5,500 in December, can not be used in conjunction with its special lease program. Providing consumers with amazingly low interest rates and the full dealer cash allowance would be way too expensive for Volvo. It is supporting the heck out of this car as it is :). Having said this, I believe that the additional $500 that Volvo is providing on the '04 S80 this month is technically bonus cash and as a result it may be compatible with its special lease program. The only other cash incentives that I am aware of that are compatible with Volvo's special lease program on the S80 are the $1,000 that it is providing on AWD models in the Northeastern U.S. and its $1,000 AARP incentive. If you can take advantage of this model's special lease program and lease it for less than dealer invoice I would say that you are getting a very good deal.

    Car_man
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  • CarMan@EdmundsCarMan@Edmunds Member Posts: 38,514
    Thaqt certainly looks like an attractive lease payment for this particular model, dcolatriano. I would be more than happy to calculate a sample lease payment on this model for you so that we can tell exactly how much room there is left to negotiate, or if this deal is even possible for that matter. However, in order for me to do so, I need you to provide me with its full MSRP and selling price. This information is usually listed in the fine print at the bottom of advertised leases. Take a look and see if this information is there. If not, we can always just base our sample payment on a relatively similar truck, looking up its price info here at Edmunds.com.

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  • CarMan@EdmundsCarMan@Edmunds Member Posts: 38,514
    Seasons Greetings Liaguk. Thanks for sharing the Infiniti lease info with everyone. Let's take a look at the current lease programs for the other models that you are interested in. If you were to lease a 2004 Audi A4 1.8T Sedan with quattro through Audi Financial Services this month for 3 years with 15,000 miles per, its base lease money factor and residual value should be .00145 and 56%, respectively.

    As far as the 2004 Saab 9-3 goes, I am sorry to say that the $3,000 dealer cash incentive that you mentioned is not compatible with its special lease program. Having said this, Saab is still providing $2,000 lease cash on the 2004 9-3 Arc Sedan right now which isn't too bad. Saab Financial Services Corp.'s current 3 year, 15,000 miles per base lease money factor and residual value for the 2004 9-3 Arc Sedan should be .00161 and 54%.

    Last but not least we have the 2004 BMW 325xi. If you were to lease this car through BMW Financial Services in December for 3 years with 15,000 miles per, its base lease money factor and residual value should be .00215 and 58%, respectively.

    Car_man
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  • CarMan@EdmundsCarMan@Edmunds Member Posts: 38,514
    Hello passat_mx. Lexus is actually providing lease support on all of its 2004 models right now as part of its "December to Remember" sales event. It has some very reasonable lease money factors on the 2004 IS 300 at this time. If you were to lease a 2004 Lexus IS 300 with a manual transmission and without navigation through Lexus Financial Services this month for 3 years with 15,000 miles per, its base lease money factor and residual value should be .00157 and 53%, respectively.

    It is difficult to predict what manufacturers will do with their future incentives programs. Generally speaking, the longer it has been since a model was introduced or has had a major redesign, the greater the support manufacturers' need to provide on it to obtain the level of sales that they have been achieving. There is a good chance that Lexus will have to increase its lease support on the IS 300 this summer. Keep in mind though that vehicles' residual values naturally decline as the model year progresses. So even through Lexus may lower its money factors on this car, at least part if not all of that enhanced support will be offset by a decline in this model's residual values. This means that its lease payment may not fall all that much lower than it is right now.

    Car_man
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  • liagukliaguk Member Posts: 5
    Thank you Car_Man!!! Your are the best! And season greatings to you and to all!
    Liaguk
  • passat_mxpassat_mx Member Posts: 32
    Carman, thanks for the info and prompt reply. This is a great discussion board!
  • hatteras1hatteras1 Member Posts: 8
    Car-man I'm looking to lease an 03 FX35, any deals going on w/Infiniti? What can I expect to pay for 42 mo. 12,000 no money down. I'm in No.Va.
  • hatteras1hatteras1 Member Posts: 8
    Guess I should've given you more info. AWD & the premium package
  • bazoooookabazoooooka Member Posts: 14
    CarMan,

    Great Site =)

    We are looking to lease a new Land Rovev Discovery (either an 03 or 04). What is the money factor and residuals for the various models for a 15,000 mile/year 3 year lease.

    Also is there any lease support being offered on these right now?

    Thanks for all your help,

    Bazoooooka

    **Also if anyone else has any experience/ideas where to get a good Land Rover deal in the Los Angeles area please post here or email me at occ2@msn.com
  • dominioncarxdominioncarx Member Posts: 6
    Thanks so much, Carman!
  • stevationstevation Member Posts: 15
    I've never leased and am thinking about doing so for a new Honda Accord Coupe. But I've been putting on about 17k-20k miles a year on my current car. Is it worth the extra cost to buy more mileage allowance? How much does that typically cost per mile? Also, Car_man, I saw you mentioned that Honda has a good lease program for the Accord coupe, but the dealer didn't tell me about it, and the example I see on the Honda website only mentions a sedan for $239/mo. I'd like to keep payments near $250. If leasing doesn't make sense for me, I can buy a Civic EX, but I was kinda hoping to get the V6 Accord if there's a good lease deal. Thanks!
  • CarMan@EdmundsCarMan@Edmunds Member Posts: 38,514
    Welcome back, robbyg. It's hard to believe that we've been discussing leasing for so long :). Let's take a look at the current lease programs for the candidates for your next truck. Although Ford's lease program often varies depending upon what part of the country one is in, the most common program for the model that you are interested in is as follows: if you were to lease a 2004 Ford Explorer XLT 2WD through Ford Motor Credit this month for 3 years with 15,000 miles per, its base lease rate and residual value should be 1.0% and 45%, respectively. If you were to lease this model with only 12,000 miles per year, its residual value would be 2% higher. When negotiating your deal on this truck, keep in mind that Ford is offering at least $1,500 lease cash on it right now that may be used to get a lower capitalized cost.

    Honda is not providing any sort of lease support on the 2004 Pilot at this time. So if you were to lease one through American Honda Finance Corp., you would have to use its standard lease program. AHFC's current base lease money factor and residual value for a 3 year 15,000 miles per lease of a 2004 Honda Pilot EX without the navigation and rear entertainment systems should be .00205 and 61%, respectively. If you were to do an otherwise identical lease with only 12,000 miles per year, its residual value would be 2% higher.

    Lastly, we have the 2004 Toyota 4Runner. Toyota's incentives vary by region. Having said this, I do not believe that it has a special lease program on this model in any of its regions. So if you were to lease a 2004 Toyota 4Runner Sport Edition 2WD through Toyota Financial Services this month for 3 years with 15,000 miles per, its base lease money factor and residual value should be .00220 and 57%, respectively. Again, this vehicle's 12,000 miles per year residual value would be 2% higher.

    This answers all of the questions that you had in your last post, but if you think of any others, please don't hesitate to ask.

    Car_man
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  • CarMan@EdmundsCarMan@Edmunds Member Posts: 38,514
    You're very welcome, Liaguk. I am very glad that I was able to help you out. Make sure to come back and let us know how everything turns out.

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