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Subaru Impreza Outback Sport & TS
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Comments
90/10 was the 1st gen of 4EAT prior to '96MY.
-mike
Look under the car and see if the Subaru also has a very narrow filler tube....
In NJ, you can't pump your own gas and everyone was telling me that it was the attendant. It happened no matter where I went. The dealer had never heard of it, but there were two people in New England on another forum that had the same problem.
Maybe open the cap, and let the tank breathe a little before inserting the nozzle. That's my highly technical advice. :-) It hasn't happened in a couple of years on her car.
-Dennis
Chuck
Don't ask me how I know, but I love the tie-strap idea.
-juice
Chuck
The 2.5TS sedan is being shown for the first time at the Montréal International Auto Show, at the Palais des congrès in Montréal (9-18 January).
-juice
Even the 2002 RS lost the rear LSD and the fog lamps, so right away enthusiasts jumped to the WRX. I doubt it has sold well.
May as well offer the TS as a value-priced sedan, and cancel the RS, since performance buyers spring for the WRX anyway.
-juice
-at 94k miles would it be stupid to start using a synthetic or a syn-blend oil? Undercarriage is spotless on engine and differentials. YEAH! BTW, I love the Subie oil pan.
-I am appreciating the 4sp automatic although I still find myself reaching for a clutch when starting.
-I hope the "tightness" of new subie is an indication of the care and dedication and low severity miles that the first and only other owner put into it (knock, knock).
-I wondered about putting in the spare fuse to increase mileage during the summer-but Click & Clack said that was pointless (I bought AWD for reason I guess).
-The transmission does seem to appreciate the driver committing to a slow or fast start. It is always in first after I come to a stop. Just need to learn about Auto trans. BTW, is it dumb to use the 1,2,3 positions like a manual and will this behavior shorten the life? It would seem best to just let it do its job and leave the lower gears for the mountain passes. I drove a 2000 obs 5sp manual with 98,000 miles and the clutch movement seemed like a foot. Even my 95 civic was shorter (are obs clutches hydraulic or mechanical ?)
Does anyone have tips on how to clean the crap (5 years of bugs etc) out of the radiators to make everthing running better?
I love this car-it deserves all the care and repair it needs.
IMHO 98 seems like it was a good year for OBS.
Thanks for reading and Good luck on #6 LA.
I wouldn't bother switching to synthetics now. Your seals are established and I wouldn't mess with it for that reason.
-juice
My OBS is an '02, but I'd suspect the transmissions work pretty much the same. My owner's manual says 1st & 2nd are just that. When you have the shifter in that spot, that's the gear you get. But 3rd operates like D ( drive ), except it won't shift above 3rd gear into 4th. Suppposed to be good for using engine braking for going downhill, and good to keep it from going into 4th and bogging down going uphill. So who knows what gear you might wind up in as you moved from 2nd into 3rd shifting manually.
I have a transmission question of my own for the group. Is there any benefit to moving from D ( drive ) to nuetral when sitting at a long traffic light? The engine just seems to be more at ease when I do this.
And what is a Python 460HP and an Eclipse CD3413?
Thanks,
Tuckerdog
Python is an alarm by DEI and Eclipse is the stereo deck-nothing fancy but decent for the drive to the slopes
Thanks,
Jon
In the 2nd and 3rd generation 4EATs and VTD 4EATs you are correct. 1 = 1st and will bounce off the rev limiter, 2 = 2nd and will bounce off the rev limiter, 3 = 1, 2, 3 like D but no 4th gear. D = 1,2,3,4
In the 1st gen 4EATs if you put it in 1, you get 1st gear and at redline it shifts to 2nd, and so forth. Same with 2, and 3. There is also a Power light on these models that when you nail the gas to the floor, will change the shift points to higher up the rev band. Same thing happens in the 2nd and 3rd gen 4EATs but no dash light to indicate it. On 1st gen 4EATs the way you start in a gear other than 1 is to push the "manual" button and this will enable you to start in 2nd or 3rd gear depending on where you place the gear selector.
The torque split on 1st gen 4EATs is 90/10 initially up to 50/50. On the 2nd and 3rd gen 4EATs it's 80/20 up to 40/60. VTD give you 45/55 torque split and it can vary up to 80/20 from there.
-mike
How does the 4EAT break down by generations and model years?
I assume my '97 is 2nd generation?
Is our '03 TS 3rd gen?
Will the new '05 Legacies be a new gen, or is the tranny staying the same?
TIA
utahsteve
The Forester XT and Legacy get the "Direct Control" automatics, I believe that's the first revision where the internals changed substantially.
-juice
Another question is I don't quite understand how the 4EAT works? The 2513 message said the torque split is 80/20 initially and up to 40/60 and I am confused because I thought AWD is always 50/50 in normal situation unless there is wheel spin, then it will send power to other wheels. I know the Audi Quattro can send up to 66% of power to one wheel and in normal situation, it is always 50/50. So, does anyone know exactly how the Subaru AWD system work?
thanks,
ramza
This link has some good technical info on the 4EAT system:
http://www.endwrench.com/archive/sysdrive.html
We swapped WRX wheels for the stock steel wheels on our '03 TS. Here's a photo:
http://users.sisna.com/ignatius/subaru/mods/wheels/wrxwheel.jpg
There is a % difference in size, as you noted. We feel the car handles better, although in theory we have lost some off the line speed due to the gearing. This is not noticeable to us, but the improved handling and looks are. We paid $250 for nearly new wheels and tires. Actually the speedometer is now more consistent with that of our '97 OB and more accurate when checked by roadside radar displays. A 50 series tire on the WRX wheels would very closely match the TS's stock circumference, FWIW.
Post 2440 in this thread discusses this as well, and mentions differences in wheel/tire weights. Also I think I brought it up in the "Modifications" board last summer, but at that time I was asking the same kinds of questions. Hope this helps.
utahsteve
I've owned 1st and 2nd gen 4EATs.
My guess is that the 5EAT will be the 4th gen of EATs. Also VTD models are different as well. So it is a bit skewed.
IMHO
3rd gen is really the 4EAT that is being sold now. Although there is 3rd gen 4EAT and 3rd gen 4EAT VTD.
They haven't changed much even in the 4EATs with "direct control" or whatever it's called. No new torque splits or sensors used. There is also VDC versions of the 4th gen 4EATs.
-mike
The viscous coupling does act as a center limited slip diffy, so both axles can get power full time. The default split is 50/50, its main advantage.
It's a little different then VW's because VW uses a torsen (torque sensing). Torsens act quicker but fail completely when there is no resistance, which is why they need traction control on those.
But back to Subaru, the VC will heat up and temporarily lock the two axles together if there is slip. It works great in snow and even on ice.
The Autos are totally different. While they do have a front bias of 80/20 or 90/10, depending on who you ask, they can be proactive. Inputs like throttle position and gear can help it determine to send more power to the rear axle when you hit the gas, for instance. So it's proactive and intelligent, basically, but the default power split feels more like FWD.
Both are very effective in snow.
-juice
thanks,
mshor
Seriously, I looked the other day on fitzmall.com, and a NEW Outback Sport cost less than that. OK, that was a 5 speed, but auto is only a few hundred more.
Buy new, really, Subies don't depreciate much.
One rule I apply is don't take a loan that's longer than your powertrain warranty. Subaru's is 5 years, so with a 5 year loan you'll be covered for the big stuff until it's paid off.
If you get a 2002, you have about 3 years left on the warranty, payments on a 3 year loan will actually be much higher, for you to have it paid off by the end of that warranty.
Buy new unless you can get them way down to $13k or so.
-juice
I'm your height, and have similar back needs (slipped lower disk). For me, almost no seat in any car is great, but by putting a small lumbar pillow on the seat it's just fine. That, and finding the right combination of height adjustment and seat recline. Once you play with it a bit, you'll be perfectly comfortable. And I take mine for long drives.
And for those who know, my 04 OBS is now fixed. I'll pick it up tonight. The thing saved me from an awful hurt, so I've missed it the past almost two months.
-Dan-
mshor
-juice
The dealers here in Salt Lake City tend to ask inflated prices on Subies too. They're extremely popular here. A year ago we looked at some auto '02 OBS's w/ 20K miles... they wanted $18K for them. They laughed at my suggestion that $15.5K was a fair price for them. So, we went down the road and bought a brand new '03 TS with auto and some options for around $17.5K. Better financing on the new one too.
The OBS has some features that the TS doesn't, but we didn't care for the 2-tone as much anyway, so the TS was a better choice for us. FWIW, they are 98% the same car, so you might consider the TS as well. In any case, shop around and educate yourself. This site has some good info, but it's not very popular with dealers:
http://www.carbuyingtips.com/
I'm 6'4" and find the car comfortable to drive, but the seat is all the way back and a tall person couldn't sit behind me very comfortably. We drove the car 2300 miles in a week, I was a little sore but would have been in any car. I'd say the seats are better than most cars I've driven, although I like the leather ones in my OB better. Cabin noise is worse in the OB though.
utahsteve
Baja, Legacy, and Outback are built at SIA in Lafayette, Indiana.
-juice
The AWD does come in handy down here in TX as well. We don't get much snow, but it rains so hard the roads can't drain it off as fast as it comes down. So it can get pretty dicey on the freeway. but this car handles it like nothing I've ever driven before. I love it.
Tuckerdog
-juice
Slide the front passenger seat forward, then recline it all the way. You have to remove the head rest.
I've fit very long lumber inside my Forester that way. You can insert it all the way into the passenger foot well. Use a tarp to keep the interior clean.
-juice
IMO, the Subaru is more substantial. If I got in a wreck, I'd definitely want to be in the TS.
Also look at some details, the finished edges of the carpet, the welds in the door jambs. The Zook has more loose/sharp edges, it's a small detail but I see cheaper construction.
Aerio is very space efficient, tall and upright, and 140hp would probably still be adequate given the low price.
But if I could afford the TS, I'd get that.
-juice
My main question is has anyone tried carry a bike upright in the back with the rear seats folded down? I'm thinking I would remove the bike's front wheel and perhaps the seat/seatpost. I realize that the bike could easily be carried flat or on a roof rack, but if I want to carry it inside I also have to accommodate my two dogs (and wife). Thanks.
-juice
Basically it involves getting power from the dome light wiring under the passenger side a-pillar trim, cutting a suitable hole in the headliner above the rear-view mirror, then screwing the map light assembly in using the holes which are already there, awaiting your new map light.
utahsteve
-juice
Owen
Check it out, let me know what you think.
Owen: It is definitely not a TS specific light, in fact you need to ask for the part for a WRX or OBS and you may get dumb looks from parts counter folk if you ask them for a map light for the TS. FYI I'm talking about the U.S. versions of these cars, I can't guarantee the Canadian version is identical. You lucky folks get some stuff we don't get, of course we get roof racks on our TS's
utahsteve
I was doing something similar to my Miata but was interrupted half way through and never finished. I guess I should...
-juice
Chintzy omissions, I agree, but bigger profits for Subaru. Add a few hundred dollars of content to the TS, paint it differently, call it an Outback Sport, and sell it for $1200 more. And sell a lot more of them because (most) people want that extra content and don't want to add it themselves. Pretty smart, actually.
utahsteve