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Subaru Impreza Outback Sport & TS
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Comments
thanks for the ne info - maybe i'll just have to visit ct & check out the foliage
Anyway, the lowest quote I got was $16,483 for 5-spd with anti-theft, cargo net, and tailpipe cover. Is there anybody in the NJ/NY area that has gotten one for less? How much? Anybody purcahsed from the Wilke dealer in Philly?
I'm told a Utah dealer will sell a 2000 OBS w/ few options (mats & tailpipe cover) for $17,6.
If I project the resale values of base models of the 1999 and 2000 OBS into 2003 (using Intellichoice depreciation figures), and subtract those values from the initial selling prices estimated above, the loss in value due to depreciation is about $1300 worse for the 1999 than for the 2000. This difference goes to zero if the 1999 is discounted to $15,9. Since the 1999 I was looking at had more options, $16,3 feels like a fair total price (inc. dest.) for a 1999 to me. But the salesman says he's confident he can sell the 1999 to someone else for more than $17,1, and he'd rather match the Utah dealer if I order a 2000. (6-8 weeks delivery)
So, I guess it's either travelling to the East Coast where there seem to be better deals on 1999's or faxing around to see if I can do much better on a 2000. Local (in Michigan and Ohio) supplies of the 2000 MT seem quite limited.
Ever notice Civics have a tendency to fog up? To resolve this, Honda set the a/c to turn on automatically when directing the air flow at the windshield. So driving with it on in the rain or winter actually makes sense.
I mention the above because I've "been there, done that".
Have you tried something like www.dealernet.com to see if they list any inventory closer to you??
I like your accounting re 99 vs 2000 except that if you plan to put on a lot of milage - that would effectively lower the $1,300 difference a bit, no?
Thanks for the tip. Unfortunately, dealernet is turning up null results when asked to search for 1999 OBS, though I can look up individual dealers' inventory. I'd been searching my area the slow and tedious way, with Subaru's dealer locator, concluding there weren't any other 1999 5 spds in Michigan listed in the internet inventory, and that 2000 5 spds are also in short supply (and mostly seem to be silver, whereas I'd prefer red). But dealernet has given me a lead on at least one other local 5 spd from a dealer whose URL is screwed up at Subaru's dealer locator site - so thanks!
I'm a low mileage driver, so I didn't take high mileage into account. Adjusting for inflation (vs. present value) would also reduce that $1300. It was just a ballpark way to try to "impose some structure on the problem" as my stats profs say to try to see at what price(s) the 1999 is clearly a better deal than the 2000.
I'm shopping inthe Maryland/Virginia area, looking at 1999 Outback Sports...a quick posting would be really appreciated...I'm on a limited timeframe. Thanks...
check edmunds home page - or even autobytel - My current understanding is $850 on 99 obs - but it seems that it's either rebate OR incentive depending where you live - I have heard but can't confirm there may be both or some combination.
Also look through some of the Subaru threads, I thought I saw something about people getting Foresters in MD and they sounded happy - good luck
-ryanjill
I hope that one works out - the other thing I've noticed in dealernet is that you sometimes have to put in just impreza vs impreza wagon to get all the listings...also they seem to have links to some dealer pages that seem faster than suby's locator... continued success!
It sounds like there's no way of getting at regional discount information directly, but several sources recommend getting at it indirectly by faxing multiple dealers. The ones getting special incentives tied to region or sales levels will presumably offer you lower prices, assuming of course, that you've demonstrated in the fax that you know the real cost of the vehicle and the options you want.
You (we?) just don't seem to get any breaks
I found carsmart through snap.com yesterday, they seemed to say $500 reb or $500 inc... I may just go 97 used...
Anyone else with thoughts, experiences, better luck??
No, just more bad news. Talked to the Michigan dealer today; he says they sold the 1999 for $1200 off STICKER, i.e., they convinced someone to pay $18,1 (a thousand more than his last offer to me!). So the dealership made $600 over invoice + the $750 dealer incentive.
Eastern Pennsylvania looks to have a bigger supply of 1999s than Michigan or Ohio (although only few have cruise control -- why?). Anyone have an idea whether dealers are more eager to deal there? Northwest has cybersavers to Harrisburg this weekend, but the price would have to be really good to make it worth the hassle -- definitely below $16,5!
sorry for delay - but I have an idea - can we sell suby's in Michigan - sounds like way to get rich!!
I saw one msg about Philly area dealers allegedly "giving away" what's on lot (99s)... a friend told me same @ New Hampshire - but their invoice price doesn't jive with anything on the net...
I would recommend serious online or phone negotiating before taking the flight... good luck
-ramon
thanks for suggestions- but @ what is loony worth in usd?? I prefer 99's for rebate/incentive.
MY00 spoilers are fine, but you have to understand that my Car Talk carmascope placed me on the cheap side of frugal. :-) When I read that the MY00 changes were mostly cosmetic, not mechanical, that made me think the 1999s would be good bargain hunting territory for essentially the same car.
-bustanutt
And don't lose hope, bustanutt -- today all the research into dealer inventories paid off for me! I bought a 1999 5 spd in Ohio with cruise control, foglamps, and keyless entry for $16,4, minus another $200 for my 15-year-old Toyota, to come out at $16,2. A comparable 2000 would invoice at $17,5, and I don't think many dealers would accept less than $300 over that amount, particularly since 2000 5 speeds are also in short supply in my state.
I e-mailed the Fleet Manager at La Riche Subaru in Findlay Thursday night saying I was ready to buy a 1999 with cruise control from the Subaru dealer who gave me the best price; I laid out invoice & MSRP, destination & totals, and said I knew there was 2% holdback, $750 dealer incentive and that I expected the price to reflect this plus the fact that cruise was now standard on the 2000s and the 1999 would suffer more depreciation as soon as I drove it off the lot. He called me Friday; we bargained for about 20 minutes and agreed on the price; I drove down this morning and picked it up. They were great -- all the paperwork was in order, exactly as we had agreed over the phone. I think they just really wanted to move the car this month; it wasn't a matter of huge local supply since I could only locate 2 1999 5 speeds in northern Ohio.
For my own peace of mind, I've decided the Oregon coup (i.e., paying $15,3) must have been the result of a dealership marketing strategy to advertise & sell one car at a phenomenally low rate to pull other buyers in -- very hard for a consumer to replicate without being in the area to see the ad and being the first one through the door after it runs!
Now I'm ready to switch gears and worry about picking car cleaners & waxes, which I never bothered to do for my poor Toyota. Any advice?
Congrats!! Perhaps your success will reinvigorate my search... especially as we near the end of month! If you could just teach me to drive a 5sp I'd save @ $800, plus fuel, and have more fun! I will definitely use your depreciation point; superb
You're right, there are literally thousands of posts on this topic. Interestingly, a car detailer is saying it's no longer necessary to wait before waxing; the paint is already cured. I'm convinced I need to do something before Michigan starts salting the roads, and Meguire's does seem to be the second choice of the people posting on this topic. (They love Zaino's.) I also learned that my usual ways of caring for the car probably do more harm than good, since it seems to take extreme care with towels, etc, not to end up driving contaminants further into the paint. So I'm not going to go any further off topic, but do recommend those threads as being very educational, even if it's a pain to spool back to the beginning of their conversation in 1998.
-bustnutt
I agree with Ramon; take some lessons in a manual. If I hadn't traded in the Toyota, you could have practiced in that! ;-) Good luck hunting; this next week should be great for making deals.
FYI - I paid $17,000 for mine in Chicago (auto, mats, tailpipe cover). Probably could have done a little better with a little more persistence, but I think it was a pretty fair price. The dealer was easy to work with.
I am hesitating between a Jetta (probably GLS) and a Subaru Outback sport. That may seem two very different cars but they have more in common that may seem: subcompacts, about the same price tag, fun to drive, good reliability records, attractive looks, well equipped. Of course the Subaru has 4WD and mini-SUV type space in the back. Jetta has its German craftmanship going for it. Anybody is interested in voicing an opinion? I am looking for the tie breaker!
This was at Flemington Subaru in NJ. The dealer has one white one left (the one I test drove) which is essentially base, and thats it for the 99's.
I probably could have done better, but since my 93 Chevy Beretta broke this morning, I kinda wasn't in the mood to really push.
Gary
My advice to you is to drive both and then consider what you want and need. I live in western PA, with a fair amount of snow, but a whole lotta hills, so AWD and ABS were important to me. Depending on where you're from, those may not be quite as important. I really don't think you can go wrong with either one.
PGS1
Styling on drawing renditions I've seen is more agressive, with a more wedgy profile.
Sounds sweet, eh?
The Legacy gets the H-6 in the fall on automatic Limited models, but the question remains what will the Forester get? A turbo or the H-6?
-juice
Also, for those with the factory hitch, how high is the top of the ball from the ground? What trailer wiring comes with the car (flat four plug)?
I've found this forum valuable in making my decision!
Pros:
1) I live in the country in NH, and only got stuck once - it wouldn't go up my unplowed driveway with 15" snow. It snowplowed of course.
2) No breakdowns or unplanned maintenance.
Neutral:
1) Gas mileage in the high 20's.
2) Stereo is OK, but needs some bass.
3) The original Bridgestone Potenza tires lasted approx. 40K miles. They are only adequate in the snow - I bought separate wheels and Blizzak tires.
4) If you do your own oil, make sure you only put the filter on "hand-tight-snug". I used a filter wrench once and cut the gasket, losing most of my oil in the next 20 miles.
Cons:
1) Seats are uncomfortable on long trips. End up with a sore lower back - I need to stuff a pillow there.
2) Road noise is high, not great for long trips.
3) Have a paint "blister", raised - not a chip, on the hood.
4) Brakes cost $100, not $80 at NTB. Not bad for a foreign car I guess.
http://clubs.yahoo.com/clubs/subaruimprezaoutbacksport
Been driving an 87 madza 323 for 13 years and just bought a lake property with a long dirt road. I am very anti SUV. 95% of them in Philly are a complete waste.
Didn't like the Forrester, mostly bc of the handling but loved the Impreza outback. Am condsidering a Legacy, but the outback is out of my comfort (price range). I am also leery of buying any new car in its first year of release.
Questions -
1 Is it at all possible to special order an Impreza outback WITHOUT that (near hideous) hood scoop? The dealer told me no.
2. How important is the heavy duty suspension if I will be dealing with a 0.75 mile dirt/gravel road, winter weather and no off roading, really. (Reason for query, can go to Legacy L and get bigger engine).
3. Is the gas mileage accurate for the 2.2 vs. the 2.5 L engines (they post only a minor diff here).
Thanks for your time!
2. All 2.2l Imprezas sold in North America are basically the same car. I'm pretty sure that the 'raised' stance of the obs is just down to larger tyres and clever styling (somebody please correct me if this is wrong). The legacy outback is however, lifted an inch or so compared to the regular legacy. If you need ground clearance, go with the forester or legacy outback. However, any Subaru will handle your dirt/gravel road.
3. I'd say seat-of the-pants performance of the 2.2l obs will feel better than any legacy, even with 2.5l engine due to lower weight. However the main difference is in the handling and space. If you need the loadcarrying ability of a wagon, the obs only just qualifies - it is more of a hatchback, with a cramped back seat and small trunk. If you need space, go with the legacy. If you want to have the most fun, go with the obs, or better still the 2.5l Impreza RS coupe/sedan or upcoming WRX turbo (the street-legal rally car coming later this year).
How about a used (97-99) Legacy Outback or GT - there are probably a few about by now at prices cheaper than a new obs.
Lastly, 5-speeds are the way to go to get the most out of the boxer 4 engine.
JP
Indeed, you would need a 5spd to harness the most power from the boxer engine. It's not that it's not capable with an auto. It's just more fun with a 5spd. I live in Soutwestern Ontario and we do get some snow. My OBS so far had no problem whatsoever going on fresh snow or bumpy condition.
On gravel and dirt path, I don't see any problem for the OBS to handle. Most important are the tires. they are different from the RE92s found in other regualar Subarus. The OBS tires are more suited for rugged use. That is the difference with say a regular Impreza. Otherwise, with the right tires, I am sure any Impreza can handle the conditions you mentioned. I think JP mentioned the stuff which I can think of. So there you go.
1)would you buy the OBS again if you'd do it over?
2)what are the honest +/-'s ?
3)is it as cramped as it could potentially be?
4)is it as safe as the other subarus if it is considered a "subcompact"?
5)how does it compare to the other subarus?
6)would this fit my need for a fun, reliable, safe car? i am a 27 y.o. single, female, soon-to-be resident physician in PA. is there enough cargo space to haul every day stuff, as well as things for special occasions/trips?
i know lots of questions, but i'd certainly appreciate ANY info you could pass along. thanks in advance and God bless!
sincerely, jenny porter
1)would you buy the OBS again if you'd do it over?
- Yes. But I would be keeping mine inhopes to turbo the car up. It was meant to be in teh first palce anyways. It's a great car. Very very unique
2)what are the honest +/-'s ?
- plus: Amazing handling, good storage, peppy engine with 5spd, gotta love the boxer growl, distinct look, the reflection of the hood will make u smile, everybody will be staring at you stunned... I can go on and on...oh yeah the bulletproof reliabiility of Subaru.
- minuses : It's a driver's car. Why? Cus it's alot more expensive then say a saturn wagon or even a Civic Si! Gas is more than the average car. I can go 400km on afull tank with strictly city driving. tint the window as the summe can get hot in the car...many windows.
3)is it as cramped as it could potentially be?
- huh? I am the driver so I will never know how cramp the rear is. But apparenly tho the car is smaller than a Jetta the interior volume is larger than a Jetta!
4)is it as safe as the other subarus if it is
considered a "subcompact"?
- It is one of the safest car you'd ever drive! The frame is very rigid. Reason being that it is the hatchback version of the World rally Championmship racer! It won the championship 3 times!!!
5)how does it compare to the other subarus?
- Which one? Very hard to say. Smaller than the OUtback and Legacys. About the same size as the Forester as it based on the Impreza chassis. All Imprezas are the same in size...be it sedan, coupe or wagon. the OBS has 2.2l. a 2.5l would be great but it still is a quick car thanks to it's crazy amount of torque ~150ft/lb at 3600rpm for a small car. This is a vague question.
6)would this fit my need for a fun, reliable, safe
- Fus is what hte OBS is all about. you haven't live until you executed a 4 wheel drift on the snow in an empty parking lot!!!! I love this car! Has lots of character.
There's an OBS newsgroup you can go to and ask them wha tthey think. Becareful tho as their enthusiasm is very contagious....
BTW what other cars are your choices?
all you owners of the Outback Sport.
I started to search for one, and as I'm finding out, its becoming difficult to get the right car. I spent a whole day trying to find a WHITE one. There are only 2 dealers here in South Florida within 50 miles or so, In Miami, theres one, and all practically have one car to show. Ok, here we
go with questions..
1. Does the automatic have sufficient power??
2. Is the A/C powerful enough for the South Florida summer (150 degrees +or-) just joking.
3. Can you add leather?
4. How about WIND NOISE??
Anyway, I would love to see a White one before I
buy. The dealer near me, has a Green one which I
will test drive tomorrow. He's asking $18,900, is
this a fair price? I also did not drive the 5 speed, maybe I should before I decide.
Thanks for the comments!!!
1. I drove an auto Outback Sport and thought the power was O.K., but I wanted and bought a manual and it takes off alot faster from a stop I think. You can really leave alot of cars behind at those traffic lights!
2. The a/c is a dream and yesterday we drove in I-4 about 40 minutes, in the midday heat, and it was a HOT one yesterday. My husband is a big person who really suffers in the heat but he is emphatically happy with the A/C on this car. It's great for Florida. But get the windows tinted as dark as you can stand. I had mine done yesterday and you'll want to get this done, too. Makes the car look REALLY sporty, also.
3. Who wants leather? It's sweaty to sit on, hot, and a pain the the *** to condition and keep supple in a hot climate. Come on, the upholstery color in the Outback is just to me the most wonderfully outrageous I've seen. I mean, the stripes are wild and have tones of purple, blue and pink which are really campy.
4. I thought the wind noise yesterday on I-4 was really minimal. Now, don't look for a big cushy Lincoln or Cadaillac, but I think the noise level is very very tolerable and the car is such a pleasure to drive!!
5. Maybe you can get the dealer down to $18000.
Tell him you want a base car with no options and you're no paying for anything extra, that he'll just have to throw that stuff in.
6. Just to throw in one more comment: What a fun car to drive. Now I know what someone meant when they said the car puts a smile on their face everytime they get in it. Be sure to ACCELERATE on the corners and curves, it can take it and is such a thrill. You won't believe the feeling!
http://clubs.yahoo.com/clubs/subaruimprezaoutbacksport
It was kind of fun making the sales manager whine, which he did in the most pathetic way, and we almost left but wanted the car too bad and he found a silver manual OB sport. So, he had a little leverage since there aren't too many of these in Florida.
Now I know why all the OB Sport owners are so enthusiastic, and how nice to know you're not driving one of those "clones"!