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I posted this on Edmunds a week ago and got no responses. I know the discussion here is about new (2001) Volvos, but I've browsed this site a lot, and hope that you can give me the benefit of your experiences with both cars...
We own a 1988 740 GLE wagon that has close to 175000 miles on it. It's running fine, but we're looking to get a used (probably off-lease) wagon with more power (and an automatic transmission, as it's for my wife and she has an hour-long commute in traffic). I've test-driven the 1996-98 960/V90, the 1994-1998 850/V70 (light and heavy pressure turbos), the V70 AWD, the XC, the '97 Audi A6 Quattro and the '98 Subaru Outback Wagon.
The Subaru's noisy, doesn't seem to have many amenities, and the steering wheel's difficult to turn.
The 850/v70 non-turbos are nice cars, but difficult to get going. I've driven both the stick and auto versions, and while the stick is okay -though still slow -the automatic is a snail. My worry with the turbocharged 850/V70s is... the turbo. These cost a lot of $$ to repair, and I've heard scattered reports of turbo casing leaks and suchlike on these high-pressure turbos, so that purchase might lead to a slightly scary situation.
The Audi's way too much money for the engine and size (it actually looks like it has less room in the back than the Subie). Plus, for less dough, the Volvo has the same front-to-back and side-to-side AWD system.
This brings me to the V90 vs the XC/V70 AWD.
The light-pressure turbo in the XC/V70 AWD seems to carry less of a load (boosts the hp by 22 from 168 to 190), and the added security of Traction Control and AWD seems great, but the horror stories on various websites about the problems with these cars have intensified - if anything - for the 1998 and newer models.
The post 1996 960/V90 (which carries side airbags, like the 850/V70s, from that model year on) looks like a hassle-free car so far - dated looks, true, but not too many recorded problems - and has a lot of standard goodies, like the XC. The handling is great, turning radius is awesome, and the engine's smooth as silk - one can hardly hear it.
The problem here is RWD. We've managed so far for 3 years (stuck in snowbanks twice, always carry a shovel, used to the smell of burning rubber, very frustrating but no calls to triple-A for a snow-tow yet), and I don't know how useful the V90's rear limited-slip differential is going to be in slippery weather (we live in CT).
I've heard conflicting reports so far - one side is of the opinion that 4 snow tires and 200 pounds of kitty litter and salt in the back should help you go anywhere, and the other scoffs at RWD and propounds AWD as the only way to get anywhere safely in winter.
The weight and power of both wagons are very close. Power-to-weight and torque-to-weight ratios are almost identical. The V90 gets the edge in ride quality, the XC in highway merges.
So now it's down to (a) higher repair costs and more problems, but newer technology with the safety of AWD or (b) smoother, more comfy ride, older but tried-and-true innards, and debatable safety in bad weather. Kids in the (not very) near future also in the equation.
It'd be lovely to get both , they're great cars, but reality intrudes.
I'd welcome your suggestions on some of the issues I've raised.
Live in CT too. Have a 1991 740 w/125K - a solid car that I pan to keep for a few more years.
I too was looking at a car for my wife, looked at the new V70's - (older ones seem to have problems and they seemed smaller than my 740.) I ended up buying a Saab 9-5 wagon - slightly bigger, faster, better driver ergonomics, and more fun to drive.
Re RWD v. FWD v. AWD. I was born/raised in Buffalo, NY - snow around here is nothing compared to Buffalo. However, 4 snows with sand in back doesn't buy much - I had 300 pounds of sand in back this winter w/ 4 snows and driving it was a joke. Fortunately I can work from home so it wasn't an issue.
Your issue comes down to how often car is going to be used and when. My other car is a 4WD Ford Expedition so when weather was bad, I just drove the SUV. If your other car is FWD than I would get the RWD Volvo. You may also want to look at the Saab - price was very competitive at Saab of Westport.
Good luck.
I used snow tires (Blizzaks)on the '98 in the Chicago area and they worked quite well.
Several of my friends have had '96-'01 Volvos and have not mentioned any problems mentioned in your post.
I might just buy the V90 (go with tried-and-true) and use the Passat in bad weather - of which we got a lot more this winter than I expected! For now, it's wait-and-see.
Good luck.
I'm not to sure about a hitch-type option and not sure if this would take away from the look of the car (not to mention the potential clearence issues with an already lower riding 17" wheel).
Has anybody ordered one of the strap on types bike racks that keeps the bikes far enough way from the back hatch that it will not bang into it? I would most likely put a heavy blanket to over the back hatch area regardless, just to protect my baby.
Any recommendations out there?
all the best,
Gary
The Good Side - Car is a rocket, either I have gotten use to the turbot lag or it has lessened. The dangerous thing about merging onto a crowded highway is running up on the car that just flew by you afew seconds earlier when you were at crawl. Brakes take getting use to but they bring the vehicle to smooth and quick stops. Vehicle is still one of the best looking on the road. Extremely comfortable, just came in off 4+ hours on the road and still have the energy to post this message, at 6' 7" being comfortable in anything but an SUV is amazing. Car handles well enough - remember its a wagon. Handles the winter slop we have had in Boston over the past 5 weeks wonderfully, note that I took the 17" Pirelli's off for the winter and put on 16" Michelin Pilot Alpin, those combined with the traction control and we had no problems in all types of conditions. Cargo space is good with the rear seats up, put the seats down and all I can think of is my college buddy's El Camino (that's a compliment). Very functional interior, except the radio controls, they finally figured out cup holders! 22 miles per gallon and it looks like the prices will be rising for the summer driving season - glad I did not go the big SUV route.
The Not so Good Side (have a tough time calling these issues bad...yet) - See the above comment on radio controls, not sure what they were thinking but I don't think I've turned a radio dial since 1975 - also am getting questionable radio reception but that could be the area I travel. The simulated wood door inserts on both front doors has chipped where the handle hits, annoying, but is being taken care of, Volvo has redesigned door inserts. When vehilce is at dealer for door insert work I am going to have them check the steering column, I get a feel of a thump when turning from a stop - sorry for the vague description but it is something you feel rather than hear. Believe it has been mentioned on these boards before, I am confident my dealer will take care of it - Stutz in Salem is great. Watch out for the blind spots, A pilars are too thick and B pilars make some merging situations an adventure.
Bottomline I would buy this vehicle again and am recommending it to friends. I'll let you know what the verdict is on the steering column. And will post an occasional update.
I should mention that I haven't felt any bump problem in the steering (yet).
In spite of the above concern over the hp and the dissappointingly useless third row, I'm actually still contemplating buying this car (like the looks, safety, comfort). Then I get the April 9 issue of AutoWeek. It slams the XC. Identified my issue with power ("you have to keep your foot down"), says it's noisy, has tipsy handling, vague steering and modest brakes, and calls it SUV-ish. I actually thought the breaks on the XC were sweet. Now I'm confused and concerned. What's your opinion out there?
Thanks, again.
more detailed answers ? Thanks for your help
Also, more information about technical service bulletins, here's an interesting article from Edmunds.com's Ownership area: You, Your Vehicle and the Technical Service Bulletin (TSB). Good luck, and please keep us posted.
Pocahontas
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ryskit, I had a similar problem once a few years back (I don't remember if it was with my old 850 turbo or S70 T5). Oddly, it turned out that it was in part due to a leather / vinyl treatment I was using (I'm pretty sure it was Armor All). For some reason under humid conditions if I had this stuff applied in the car it made a petrol-like smell. It also leaves a film on your windows (most noticeable at night or when your windows get foggy). Once I moved to Lexol I never had the problem again. I don't know if this might be your cause but I do recall having a similar problem and finding it was essentially a chemical reaction between the car and the protectants (I use the term loosely because I'm not a fan of Armor All) I was using.
Hope this helps.
Good luck.
-rdo
rdollie@home.com
It may apply to the XC, push the issue with the parts dept. and service.
I live in So NH too and work in MA. Stay away from 128 Volvo, by any means. Merrimack Street in Manch. is great & Lovering in Concord is great. I've purchased from Merrimack st. & their service is great. Lovering in Nashua is alright, but i have not purchased from them yet. I have owned 4 Volvos. Call Cliff @ Merrimac Street. He's great.
However, ask them for the service record and see if any fixes match the earlier reliability posts on this board.
http://www.draw-tite.com/findhtch/results3.asp?make=Volvo&year=2001&class=CLASS+I&model=V70&style=&Go=Go
I'll then put a thule or yakima hitch bike rack on the back and away we go!!!!!!!!!
Gary
Thanks
Here's a list of problems we've encountered with our 2001 V70 T5. It's been a disappointing vehicle to own given all the problems. Fun to drive, but not fun to drag into the shop for repairs all of the time. The wheel hub blowing out was pretty scary. BTW, the car has not been driven hard, so the problems aren't related to unusal usage.
1. Steering rack was off center, front wheel was hitting the inner wheel well. Both front steering stops had to be retightened and adjusted.
2. Defect in upper part of steering column discovered. Steering shaft/countershaft was replaced.
3. Sharp clunking noise was detected coming from left front quadrant of the car. The subframe O ring was defective and replaced.
4. The front wheel hub failed while driving at 30 mph, the bearings were completely shot. The wheel hub had to be replaced.
5. Just happened this weekend..., the rear tailgate wiper is not working, the fuel gauge does not register any fuel even with a full tank, and the rear passenger and tailgate door locks do not function. These problems emerged simultaneously. Fuses are intact, so must be something else. Car will be in the shop, again, tomorrow.
And there have been some less serious defects:
- Squeaking glove box-spring needed lube.
- loose material in rear passenger door, caused buzzing noise with bass sound from stereo, needing fixing twice.
- cup holders in rear fold-up table warped and needed to be replaced.
We've discovered enough problems with the car by now, so what does Volvo send to us in the mail this weekend, a new lug wrench with instructions to immediately discard the old lug wrench, so obviously the existing lug wrench was defective as well. I took one look at the lug portion of the original wrench and immediately saw the design problem. One would think something simple like a lug wrench would be designed properly the first time. It validates my overall disappointing experience with the quality of our particular vehicle. Hopefully other owners have had a better experience with their 2001 V70 T5.
Lastly, in fairness to the people in the service department at our Volvo dealer, they have been very helpful and courteous and the mechanics seem to do quality work.
Just bought a 2001 2.4T. Should pick it up tomorrow. Anybody have any opinions about Volvo pitched VIP extended warranties. I'm guessing that you can buy other warranties for less money, but these aren't always problem free because they weren't Volvo Factory extended warranties. Volvo VIP plan prices range from $1440 for a 75k mile 5 year (really 25k 1 year) to $3025 for 6 year 125k miles. Since I don't do alot of miles, looks like their best buy for me is a 7 year 85k at $2110. Just wonder if anybody thinks they're worth it.
Thanks.
These boards, though not a statistically valid sample gives one the impression that there are
nitty problems with the newer volvos.
Any way, I liked the Saab 9.5 waqon and bought it 3 weeks ago!
My first Volvo was a 240 wagon bought in 1980s---reliable to the core.....the newer the Volvo the worse the problems get! Sad, sad, sad....and even sadder that there seems to be no end in sight!
However, I've been getting conflicting stories on whether I need to wire from the battery using Draw-Tite's modulelite kit or if it's OK to use just a convertor and tap into the existing taillight wiring.
Draw-Tite apparently feels that many of the new cars today have very sophisticated electrical systems that can be overloaded and damaged if an additional load (such as the draw from a trailer's lights) is placed on the existing electrical system and therefore Draw-Tite believes that by running a completely separate wire to the battery solely to power the trailer avoids the risk of damaging the Volvo's electric components and computer. Is the additional work to run a wire from the battery to the back of the car really necessary or is there plenty of power and proper gauge wiring to just use a convertor and tap the Volvo's taillight wiring? Also, are you aware of any software update that would be needed to update my car's computer when I add the trailer wiring?
As additional information, I will be towing a lightweight kayak trailer that only has rear lights on the trailer.
Thanks for any and all information that you can provide on this subject.
Tom
1) We're in the Bay area. What prices have folks paid (over invoice) for
either the V70 or the V70 2.4T? Either $ or percentage will work.
2) Is the base model power sufficient in automatic mode? I thought it
was relatively sufficient when I test drove it, but want to hear from
folks who have been driving this car for a while.
3) Has anyone had success in negotiating the Advertising charges that all
dealers seem to charge?
4) I'm getting conflicting reports of reliability on this forum. Some say they
love it, most say there are minor issues. If you are dissatisfied with the
Volvo V70, can you please post here with your reasons as to why you
are dissatisfied? Alternatively, drop me an email...
5) The V70 2.4T comes ONLY with leather and sunroof. Many dealers have
checked inventory all over california and that's the only way they ship them.
One can't even order a 2.4T without a sunroof any more. Also the brochure
specifies that these are options. Seems like Volvo's trying to maximize
profits. Is there any law against this and if so, where can one file a complaint?
Thank you very much for your help
PS
I'm curious what others have paid for the car, I bet my deal was "average or slightly better than average" but not the absolute best deal.
What prices have you been quoted?
good luck,
Gary
Volvo's reputation for producing reliable cars has been hit by a survey of a 1.6 million breakdowns.
The report, which documents cars which broke down on German motorways last year, places Volvo in fourth position for having the most breakdowns.
The only cars to place worse than Volvo models were Renault's Espace, Fiat's Bravo, Brava and Marea, and Opel's Omega. The company has promised action.
The 850, S70, V70 and C70 series were the most likely of the Volvos to experience some kind of problem.
The survey was carried out by the respected German automobile organisation Adac, and only included cars between the ages of four and six years old.
Volvo spokesman, Olle Axelsson, told the Sydsvenska Dagbladet newspaper: "The truth is that we have not concentrated on quality the past few years, but we will now analyse and correct the problems."
Last updated: 09:59 Sunday 13th May 2001
http://www.ananova.co.uk/news/story/sm_291074.html?menu=news.surveys
Is this a fair price?
Should he include the warranty since it was a rental?
Also we asked that he include a security cover for the back and the removable roof racks. Does anyone know what these cost? And has anyone had problems with road noise when using the removable roof racks?
The supplemental warranty could be worth it if you will keep the car for 70m miles and if the coverage applies to any Volvo dealer. The price may be a bit high, but include the warranty in the $26480 and a commitment by the dealer to fix any rattles-these cars had a few in the instrument panel. Also, I would insist on a service history.
except for the remote control problems, the car is/has been fantastic. I'd buy it again.
Keep a look out for other related V70 articles, features, and discussions in that area. Happy Motoring!
Pocahontas
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Hatchbacks / Station Wagons Message Boards
2). Speakers: occasionally the right front speakers seem to fade out. Can't tell if it's the dash or door. Have had both speakers replaced and radio replaced. Still occuring.
Any help would be appreciated.
If it's a lot more pronounced than usual, I experienced that too this past winter. Something was frozen or stuck, and running through a car wash with underspray took car of it. There could be something frozen, not do to ice, but just due to a poorly lubed service. You could try jacking up the car, taking each wheel off and spraying the articulating parts of the brakes with a penetrating lube like WD-40. I'd try the wash first.
Bought a Volvo V70 2.4T at $300 above invoice, with the advertising charge of $400 waived. Doesn't matter what the dealers say, the advertising charge is completely negotiable.
I live in the San Francisco Bay area.
I talked to a few more dealers and all were ready to deal. Seems like mid-30K cost cars are not moving quickly, and all want to deal. The last day of June is coming up, it will be the end-of-the-month and end-of-the-quarter, so I am sure that deals will be very good then.
I also used an information service to get details on incentives, rebates, negotiation tactics, etc.
If you want the name, please email me. I am not posting the name here because I don't
want to blatantly advertise their services on a public forum.
PS
I am curious if there are any other special "end of model year" incentives that might be available and should be considered in any negotiation. I live on the east coast and it appears that there are a lot of new 2001 XC's available. Summer is probably not the best time to move them.
How do I contact you if you have some other suggestions that might make me a better informed consumer?
Thanking you in advance.
I guess I thought people could click on my UID and could send me email. Not true, unfortunately. I wanted to avoid plugging other websites or companies, but since it is not easy to email someone through Town Hall, here is my experience.
I obtained information from Fighting Chance, www.fightingchance.com; It's worth the $30 that you pay to get information on one car, totally. They will give you very up to date information on recent sales, inventory situations, current incentives, as well as what prices people got on Volvos in your area. In addition, there is other information such as how to negotiate, etc. Worth every penny.
Another website which has useful reading is
http://www.carbuyingtips.com/carintro.html
The 1% of MSRP that is dealer holdback should be considered for negotiation as should be Customer Service Index bonuses, etc. Yes, dealers are in business to make a profit, and so you can give them a fair profit. The profit that you give them should include the above $$.
I did not find any end of the model year incentives. I called Volvo and they said they were still building 2001 cars. Not much information is available in various car mags about 2002 models, so I suspect that we are a few months away from 2002 model introduction. If you can wait till October, then you could probably get an end of the year deal. But, the 2001 will already have depreciated by then and so it may not be a wise idea to get that deal.
My other tips:
1) Negotiate on the last day of the month or quarter. If it is both, even better. Bottom line, dealers need to make sales quotas and they will definitely give you a good deal then. Closing the deal at around 7-8 pm will get you the best deal. I bought three cars in this manner and I have got better deals than everybody that I know.
2) Negotiate the advertising charges. It's just cost of doing business so why should they pass it on to you ?
3) Negotiate other freebies such as Free Scheduled maintenance, free options, etc. Everything is negotiable. See what they will give you, because maintenance is expensive (as you know) on these European cars.
4) Get buy-in from a salesperson. If he/she has invested time with you, then they will definitely be willing to negotiate. That means call them for clarifications, talk to them, go out on a test drive with them, etc. And be up front with them about what you are thinking. I knew that I would buy from a particular dealership if they were within $200 of the lowest price. Because I got the salesperson invested in the process, I got the best price from this dealership. Also, let them know that you will be servicing the car at that dealership and so they can make money off you in the service.
5) Be prepared to walk. You can always buy it next month. Or they may close their books a day late and call you with a "deal" the next day. If you are in a hurry to buy a car and you show it, they will not be willing to negotiate as hard.
6) Get the no-hassle price from the web. It's a useful reference point. And you can always use it if you don't want to negotiate. But, if dealers are willing to offer a car for $500 over invoice (without negotiations) via some Internet referral (Autovantage, Autoweb, etc.), and if the Internet is in 60% of US households, I am sure I can do better than $500 over invoice, because I like to negotiate. (If most people can get it for $500 over, I am sure I can do better.) This is what I was thinking when I didn't use this service.
7) Sound intelligent. You don't have to spout info, but let them know that you are informed. The above websites will allow you to be that.
Hope this helps:
A disclaimer: I have just condensed all my reading and experience into the above points. I am sure you will see the same information elsewhere. I am not plagiarizing, but I don't know where I picked up what information so I am not specifying the source of it.
Regards
PS