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Comments
Buy what you want, but I know what I won't be buying again. I would have been willing to buy another GM if the AVM and the dealership would have been more understanding to work with, but they really turned me off when they told me that an oil leak is normal and they are not going to do anything about it. I really think the root cause of the problem is a flatness problem on the engine block since 2 new oil pans could not fix the problem. I guess we'll never know since GM is not going to do anything about it.
Good luck!
I have a new family member and think we could use a van for future family members and normal home depot runs and camping, etc.
I won't be putting a lot of milage on the van (i have 2k on my truck in seven months), and I'm a good mechanic with a lot of tools, so I was considering getting a used van like a 94-97 hopefully for less than $5k. No depreciation on such a used vehicle, no payments and it should fit my needs. I'm not super concerned about a flawless vehicle, wife and I both play soccer and kids will too, plus going to Home Depot for mulch, etc will not help the interior. I'm replacing a std cab pickup. I have a few questions about the GM vans I was hoping folks could help me with:
What year did they stop making the plastic panels, and did they have problems?
What year was the 3.8 motor optional?
What is normal fuel milage for the 3.8 Highway and mixed?
Anything else I should know, cool options to look for on my used van?
My father's bonneville 3.8 (not supercharged) gets 27+mpg on the highway going 80mph. I am hoping since the drivetrain is the same just about to get reasonable milage.
Thanks,
DD
I have seen a '97 P TS in autotrader. Guy wants $8900 (top dollar) for a white one with 50k miles on it. Says the only engine maintenance to the vehicle has been put a new belt on it. Has dual AC, not sure of other options, its 50 miles away and I haven't gone there yet.
Resale on these things does not appear to be stellar (sorry) but that means they are a great value, right? What would a reasonable offer given that dealers never pay blue book for a trade - I don't want to offend him but if I had cash and its before Christmas.... maybe $5k?
Also, the reveiw of this vehicle is much more positive than the earlier ones. Hmm... I guess I was stupid to want to look at those early ones.
What sort of MPG is anyone getting?
Thanks for everything (is anyone here??)
DD
Ken41
Anyone had any experience on this and what the problem was?
We love our '99 extended with 64,000 miles.
The 3.8, while a excellent engine, does not overcome the previous design shortcomings according to the reviewers. I have yet to get to test drive the latest generation GM van, but will this weekend. Many of the reviews say "fun to drive" which seemed mutually exclusive with "mini-van". I was also surprised to see the 0-60 of the 3.4 below 10 sec - the new Buick Rendevous for instance has same powertrain but is slow - 11 sec 0-60.
I know the '97 does not have dual doors - a big drawback, but being cheap the lower price of this model is a plus and this isn't our main vehicle, our Maxima is.
Also surprising is the excellent reliability rating from users like on carpoint.com - where the Transport gets all top marks. Funny how even CR mag shows them as pretty reliable in 90% of the catagories (especially engine/transmission) but they put the van in the "models to avoid used" list. Go figure. I have heard complaints about wind noise.
The van I'm going to look at supposedly has only had the belt changed since it was new besides scheduled maint. - that is excellent. Our 2000 Maxima (supposedly one of the best cars) just had a oxygen sensor go out on it at 11 months and 12k into its life.
The GM transmissions are also much better than the competitions, that is a big factor.
DD
Apparently there are problems with any vehicle. He finally got fed up with the Maxima and traded it in on a NEW 2001 Honda Accord EX 4 cyl. He loved driving the Maxima but got fed up with it being in the dealer for repairs all the time.
He said the Maxima got the same gas mileage on the highway but had lots more power when needed. I reminded him of the 20 cents per gallon he is saving all the time not buying Premium fuel requred by the Maxima.
Drove the van in not the best mood, but it was smooth. The high-profile tires and soft springs (esp. in rear) did not make handling a strong point, but I'm not a van driver. The motor pulled acceptably, but seemed a bit reluctant to spin (rev) like the imports. Torque of course was reasonable. Brakes worked ok, but the "brake" light stayed on even with the parking brake released.
In summary, the driving experience was not enough to make me further consider getting a van, but I bet some better tires and wheels/shocks rear springs/airbags. would make a world of difference.
The van w/o rear air in Houston is not worth even considering. I think only the longer ones had it a option, going off the pontiac.com web site info for the new ones. I guess I'll have to look at some extended wheelbase models if I keep looking at them.
Anyway, that's it.
Very pleasant experience since I did not have to fight for a good price.
At work we are eligible for a program with GM,so I used it and I end up paying a pretty good price.
I will take possession of the car January 12 2002.
I was pushed by the wife and the kids toward the minivan,at first I was reluctant,but the van are much better than before,very confortable and quiet ride,big big surprise for me.
Now I hope that this van will be as reliable as my Lumina (cars) was.Buying any and I say any brand of car is a craps shot, but I will not loose sleep over that lets enjoy today and dont worry about tomorow!
Now,lets go back to the montly payment charts....
The '98 GLS didn't have view screen thing like so many of you have but it has about everything else - dual doors, load leveling, leather, dual air, dual power seats, side air bags, etc etc. My kid is only 6mo old and I can add a aftermarket view screen, I'm pretty handy.
It was much firmer in the rear with the air shocks than the poncho I drove w/o them and good tires like michelins really make a huge difference in one van being terrible handling and one being decent. And the leather power seats are very pimped out and super comforatble. This is a road tripping baby I tell ya! The thing is super clean and runs straight, brakes straight, great motor condition, etc. I agreed on the purchase wth the owner but will have to get the wife over to see it while I get some money together. The van is super clean even rugs are still new looking, no dents, 60k miles. I got it for $10,900 - a steal in my opinion given the prices on new ones. Blue book ranged from 10.5 to 12.9k, and given the great condition of the van, I'm doing ok. I didn't want to screw the guy at Christmas and he didnt' have to sell right away either, so we compromised. The new vans with 0% and the new features were tempting but for me this is a better use of capital on a depreciated asset, and we won't be driving it all that much.
I'm going to upgrade to some aftermarket mags to make it look cooler, as the prev. owner has whitewalls on it! Ughhh!!!!!! Puke!!!!. Has anyone gone to a +1 (16" wheel) and if so how do you like it? I figured the base wheel / tire combo the base poncho was the reason I was not sold on the Poncho I drove. PS. You can see what it looks like with different wheels at tirerack.com BTW
Would also like to add a subwoofer that is out of the way. The van has 4 captains chairs, so it rules out under the second seat -- Any hints appreciated.
Also, I'm sort of a tweaker on suspensions - I think this van needs a rear sway bar to keep it more neutral handling (not pushing through corners). Has anyone tried this? I've added Addco rear anti-sway bars to my last two vehicles (shadow turbo and dodge truck) and it really helps roadholding and is cheap at like $120.
DirkDaddy
dave
Thanks!
Someone posted this on the Odyssey site in response to a question I had.
http://www.highwaysafety.org/vehicle_ratings/ce/html/96026.htm
I realize this is for one specific test but it does worry me.
I did read that they tested a 1997 Pontiac.
Does anyone know if GM has made any improvements to their vans since '97 that might improve these scores?
In a sense you got to be lucky to hit a barrier, offset, at 40 mph.
I'm looking at the result of the side impact and the Montana gets a 5 stars,that good enough for me.
Peoples dies in big Kenworth truck and also in Geo Metro, so... don't worry and be happy , happy holidays !!!
I replied to your post in the Honda forum. They get kinda touchy there if you honestly discuss the Honda.
I recently spent some time researching vans, mostly the GM van and the Honda. GM did have that one crash test issue which is a concern. However, from discussing it with my insurance agent the GM van is CHEAPER to insure. Part of that is because the Honda vans seem to be a greater target for thieves, but there does not seem to be a safety issue resulting in higher risk of insurance loss with the GM. If there were significant safety issues with this van, there would be higher insurance costs.
I asked you to check out the "problems" forum for any of the GM vans. There are none. There is a Honda Problem forums, and a problem forumd for most other makes. It is not that the GM vans are without problems, but it does appear that GM has a much better drive train.
Depreciation is the other thing to consider. Any new vehicle you purchase will depreciate a lot in the first year. I happend to stumble on an almost new 2001 with 8K miles that the dealer let one of his employees use to make frequent trips to his dying mother. I got it for about $5000 under the original invoice, $9000 under the original sticker. I couldn't see buying new. The GM extended warranty transferred too.
The problem with these forums is that we all try to justify the choice we made. I think you'll find that there are a couple of good choices in mini vans out there, some really bad ones, and no perfect ones. Just try to cut through the bull and objectivly consider all the issues. You'd be okay with either the Honda or the GM. I chose GM and I think I would have if I had bought new.
I checked out the Honda problems discussion and do see they can have problems as well.
I think the biggest downfall is the depreciation of the GM's but I'm hoping my $2300 GM dollars will help some.
While I think the Honda resale value will remain good I do wonder what the increased production will do to it?
It's a tough decision it may come down to who gives me the best deal. I have to deal with a trade in as well.
Thanks for you help.
Let's face it, anytime you buy a car it's a crap-shoot. You could have problems, but that shouldn't be an indictment on ALL cars of that make and model. There are some that seem to have more problems then they should, but most seem pretty reliable.
bcd99 had good advice. Mine is a Silo. I love the way it rides. I get to take it on it's first trip over the holidays and I'm actually looking forward to spending the 8 hours I have to travel with the wive, 3 boys and the dog locked in the little space!
Keep us posted on what you decide to do.
I had posted recently, thought I'd follow up.
I drove a '98 olds and it was better equipped and better tired, had rear self leveling - was much better than a much lesser equipped shorter wheelbase Trans Sport I had tried.
I would definately consider the olds. Its about the same exact van, and I think the warrenty is longer and the equipment is different.
The ride is ok, would like more damping in the rear but would have to do major mods to get a 2nd shock mount back there, have to live with it.
I'm not dissin' the Pontiac, these vans are about the same.
I am looking at aftermarket wheels for it to spiff it up some.
DD
Chicago Tribune New Cars Column
Steve
Host
SUVs, Vans and Aftermarket & Accessories Message Boards
With regards to the major components (i.e., engine and transmission), some detractors note that the 3.5 liter V6 push rod engine and transmission from GM are old technology. I agree - but old is not bad. The reliability track record for these older engines is phenomenol. Look at the repair history of the drivetrain components for many of these minivans - GM's are, by far, the best for reliability. By comparison, if you get 60,000 out of a Chrysler without major meltdown, you're lucky.
Good luck in shopping and have a great holiday!
Have you ever had the fuel filter changed since you had the van ?
If when running it goes OK at all speeds etc and nothing else seems wrong such as engine, then unless some bogey electrical problem, it would appear that the fuel is not getting to the engine.
It seems that some folks have had trouble with the fuel pump wiring being corroded or otherwise not making good connection all the time. That would cause problems like you are having.
Have someone check the condition of the wires to the fuel pump and check the power using a tester.
Other engine problems will be reported in the computer memory.
DD
1) ignition coil, when these are going out the can be very intermittent. I believe the 94s still just had one coil for all 6 cylinders.
2) Intermitent contact in ignition system, (short). The easist way I can think of to check if this is the problem is, the next time you experience a shutdown, pull a spark plug wire, stick a screwdriver in the boot so it makes contact, then hold the screwdriver very close (less than 0.050 inch) to a grounded engine component. Then have someone crank the engine, if you see a spark, then this is not the problem, if no spark, then it is a good possiblity, and you have also at least significantly narrowed your list of probable suspects.
Getting down to the basics, the engine only needs air, fuel, and an approprately timed spark to run. For you to have the symtoms you described, something must be interupting either fuel or spark.
They agreed this was an abnormal occurrence and therefore are going to replace the foam(or whatever is needed) and supply a new piece of material to the outside seat back.
Anyone else have this problem?
The passenger seat is showing signs of the same thing, so I've asked them to have a look at it as warranty expiry is near.
One general question for any of you. Once a warranty repair has been done, and if the fix does not fix the problem(smelly A/C, for example), does any further repair attempts for the same problem still come under the original warranty. This, to me, would be a warranty of a warranty repair. Thoughts?
Under warranty had the foam all replaced in the left side bolster.
In regard to warranty being valid beyond mileage and time, I had a situation related to a new gas tank sender unit which had a faulty gasket and kept putting on the Service Engine Soon light.
The dealer fixed under warranty eventhough I was over by 500/600 miles. I am sure there is a small window, but once well over then unlikely.
Thanks and Happy N.Year
Thanks and H.N.Year
I bought the side terminal tool and have moved the fuse/relay center but it still is in the way with all the wire looms and stuff. My positive is reachable but hate to swing a wrench when the negative is still attached.
I'm getting the service manual but amazed at how this battery is wedged into there and how hard it looks to mess with it.
Thanks,
DD
Happy New Year to all.
Is it springs, shocks, sway bar???
The front stablizer bar (sway bar) looks huge, so I guess I'll assume that's plenty beefy and just upgrade the rubber in the linkage for starters, and I'm looking at 16" tires like the new ones or possibly 17" if they are not too pricy. My maxima has 17" wheels and 235 50 r17's and rolled them up next to the van and they were exactly the same diameter.
I know the van is not a trans am or anything but I got a good deal and wheels make such a visual and driving difference.
DD
The fit and finish is excellent, good enough at least to shut up a GM basher !I've read all the post on the Silh, Vent.and Montana, that looks pretty good to me
Future will tell but I'm pretty confident that I bought a good van,not a perfect product that doesn't exist.
Thanks to the 0% financing, the ring to win promotion ,the GM points and the car buying program at work.
That was my best car buying experience ever, I highly recommend Ab Cox Pontiac Buick GMC in Aurora Ont. No BS, lots of delicate attention, a very good team.
Now lets go back to the car payments ...!
I took the door panel off. Amazingly, all the door operations (window, handle, locks, speaker) are mounted on one big piece of plastic then bolted into the door as an assembly.
I can't see anything wrong and I'm afraid the dealer will just want to replace the entire assembly rather than repairing what's broken.
Has anyone else had this problem?
I took the van in when the alternator failed this past monday. The dealer advised the motor in the door is bad. $355! Ouch.
I have checked for recalls and reports but found nothing.
change the transmission fluid.
wait a minute...
CHECK the transmission fluid.
if it still gives trouble, have someone keep track of the gears as you drive, and see what is happening, if its in 3rd-4th shift, or the torque converter lockup. Sounds like a software problem with the computer shifting. a good tech should be able to get to the bottom of this if they devote sufficent time with a computer plugged into it.
Many people never have tranny trouble with these, so I'm hoping I don't either.
DD
used '98 Olds van
Later it happened again and this time had them explain to me what the computer said. They suggested replacing the spark plug wires. I did. It went away. I have since changed the plugs (what a pain that was!) and had the tranny fluid and filter changed.
Now a year and a half later, it's doing it again. So I'm thinking the distributor. I'll let you know what I find out.
Hope this helps.
DD