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I doubt you will ever see a 2WD Legacy again. Subaru's worldwide branding vehicle identity is 99.9% AWD. In Japan they offer a few bottom-feeder Imprezas and tiny 660cc JDM-specific models that are offered in both FWD and AWD, but that's it. Outside of Japan every Subaru sold is AWD.
Being virtually all AWD is what they known for. It's part of their DNA and a huge part of their marketing. It goes to the core of what a Subaru is all about. I don't expect that to change.
Offering a FWD alternative will weaken their brand image. Subaru has been saying for years that AWD is the best drive system out there. If they offer FWD, in a way they're saying that what they've been promoting all along may not be true. It's sending mixed signals to their customers. They would be shooting themselves in the foot. Let the other brands offer a variety of drive systems. Being 100% AWD is another braggin' right feature they can sell to the public.
Bob
All 2006 automatic non turbo models EPA mpgs:
Legacy sedan/wagon: 23/30
Impreza sedan/wagon: 23/28
Forester: 23/28
Outback: 22/28
Baja: 21/28
Tribeca: 18/23 premium only
As of right now, these mpgs aren't bad, but I live in the city and really don't need AWD. People who live in an area that needs AWD, these mpgs are probably the one best you can find (except for the Tribeca).
Interiors of Subarus could be a little roomier for people who have families. Like the Legacy, with a 93 cu ft interior, is classified as a midsize sedan, but for a growing family of 5 I think would need at least 100 cu ft interior.
Otherwise I think Subarus are one of the best and original makes out there. There are AWD alternatives though like Toyota Matrix/Pontiac Vibe, Dodge Caliber, Ford Five Hundred, Dodge Magnum, 2006 Toyota Rav4 (which has an optional 3rd row), Honda Pilot (with standard 3rd row for a total of 8 passengers), and others.
MPG should really be compared between like vehicles.
Jim
Bob
Where they'd succeeded is at being a niche player, AWD wagons mostly. The OB and Forester have done quite well and now sales are nearly double that level, selling more profitable cars at that.
Remember something - common sense does not apply to Subaru. Think about it, they DROP half their lineup (all FWD, Justy, SVX), increase prices dramatically, and sales DOUBLED! :confuse:
Sure, they could come out with a FWD Legacy, but it would probably still not match the Accord's 26/34 mpg and so the fuel misers would still buy the Honda. They could probably get about 25/31 out of a FWD Legacy, but it would be smaller than the Accord and they have only half as many dealer outlets to sell them from.
Now, look at it differently. You're shopping for an SUV that gets 16mpg, and suddenly an Outback's mid 20s mpg seems quite reasonable. It is a legit alternative to what most people use SUVs for. Bingo. Jackpot.
Forester's 23/28 doesn't seem that great? Well guess what? It's best in class, matching the 4WD RAV4 and besting the CR-V, which takes 3rd place. Bingo again. Jackpot #2.
Those are the models that sold well. FWD Legacys from 1994 and earlier were a disaster Subaru is better off forgetting about.
A FWD Legacy is less efficient than an Accord.
An AWD Outback/Forester is more efficient than an Equinox/Vue/Escape. That's why it works.
-juice
It seems to be ending so what will be the next move?
Krzys
Hope this helps. Good luck with whatever you decide.
Mark
The Vue and Escape have hybrid versions that get hwy milage in the 30's. Yes they cost more $$, but the milage is there. Even a Chevy Tahoe is improving mpg (up to 22 mpg)
The new GMC/Saturn/Chevy SUV coming out soon is an 8 passanger that is reported to get about 24 or 25 mpg. Its an improvement over the old Trailblazer and 22mpg. I wonder what the hybred Tahoe will get? maybe 24mpg? The RAV4 can get 30mpg and can carry 7 passangers. The v6 4wd RAV gets 28mpg. Size and power wise thats more like a Tribeca.
Yes most big SUVs are still less than a little Forester, but 4 to 6 mpg isn't a big deal.
Recent years Subaru has gone more to worse MPG for sake of performance. Look at the turbo models.
How about a Hybred? or Flex Fuel model? or something that gets slightly better MPG.
Most (All?) the other companies are showing improvements in MPG. Where is the improvement from Subaru?
The products are well positioned, the only question is how much new AWD competition will appear and how will it affect their sales.
-juice
Saturn Vue Greenline will be a hit, I predict. The price is right - under $23k. But....we're talking very limited supplies, here. It won't put a dent in anyone's market share.
The RAV4 that gets 30mpg is FWD. The AWD model in automatic gets the same 23/28 as the Forester auto. The next-gen Forester is coming soon, so we'll see how Subaru responds. The RAV4 is a hit, sales have boomed.
I think the Forester is competitive. It needs to grow a tad, else people will cross shop with the cheaper Jeep Patriot. The Jeep even LOOKS like a Forester.
-juice
Also, just got a quote from a dealer in Sac saying he will sell for 100 dollars over invoice, plus the rebates for both the 2006 Legacy and Outback wagons. Good deal?
Think of the Outback as a heavy-duty Legacy. The suspension is HD and raised, and it has larger tires. If you travel a lot of bad roads the Outback the better choice. if, however, you prefer great handling, the Legacy is the better choice.
Bob
The OB is pre-wires for trailers, so if you tow that's the way to go.
You also get the roof rack w/cross bars. Fog lights and that sort of thing. Heated seats are standard on the 06s, as are heated mirrors and wiper de-icer up front.
So the price is higher but so is content. If you can make use of those things, it's probably worthwhile.
The Legacy is a better value if you do not need those items.
-juice
Any and all thoughts are welcome!! THANKS.
You'll save more gas with the Lexus. Following Safety features standard: Braking assist, traction control, stability control.
More passenger and trunk room with the Subaru and 46 more horses.
Drive both. Go with your heart, with the one you love the most.
Something to consider: if camping is in the mix the Outback will have considerably more cargo space (and also room for skis without having to use a rack). The Outback also is a pretty decent trailhead camper with the seats down in a pinch, key for late night escapes for the city that find you arriving at a trailhead at 2am.
My cousin has a Lexus IS250 and its nice, but for your purposes, I'd say go Outback.
Given the deals Subaru is running right now, I'd try to talk your parents into using some of the money they can save vs. the Lexus up front to buy you an extended warranty.
Krzys
Long story short: I made a black box module that wires in under the dash to give the car retained accessory power after removing the key for a selectable time (2 to 16 minutes.) Does the job nicely.. It has options for killing accessory power, since I don't like it when opening the door kills power instantly - because often I'm out of the car then realize I need to jump back in and use a power accessory... I made it that when you LOCK the car cuts power. And along these lines, I made it that pressing UNLOCK breathes life into accessory power - the radio comes on and is playing when you hop in which is kind of novel.. but also lets me use other accessories without ever having to put a key in the ignition! .. it powers off after a time, or locking the car again.
I also found a one-wire way to get power windows to work when Accessory power is on (instead of requiring ignition power to be on).. Also applies to sunroof on wagons.. so now I can use windows during retained power time.
I've posted the brainpower on doing this elsewhere on another forum, legacygt.com I also offer install kits on a website if you don't want to make your own but buy a complete and tested kit ready to install, with Legacy instructions. Read more about it here
http://legacygt.com/forums/showthread.php?t=34363
Cheers
Scott McPhee
Also can anyone tell me of ther fuel mileage with the 2,5 (either trans.)?
Thanks
Mike
Welcome to the Bay Area in advance! If I look at your statement, it's not even which will be more expensive, but which one will let you do the things you want.
If you take one trip to Tahoe, you'll notice that the area is crawling with Subarus. While the IS250 is a nice car, it's not going to let you do all the things you want to do. You'll need the AWD, extra ground clearance and cargo space for an active lifestyle.
When CHP waves you by during chain controls on I-80, you'll be SO glad you're in a Subaru!
Ken
Anyway, I immediately got a 2.5i Legacy wagon manual transmission across the street (literally) after the VW service tech said, "if you want reliability get a Japanese car". Advice taken. Glad I did so far, it's been 6 months. Got 14,000 km on the Legacy now, the fuel economy has constantly improved now to about 8 l/100km average. This is all a very Canadian way of saying, it's good.. but not as good as you might have got on the 1.8T - for both power and economy. But VW "gas economy" comes at a price.. It costs about $4000 for a new engine after 175,000 km, so I'd call it a false economy.
Scott
towing just for bike rack. I looked at several brands on
e-trailer and downloaded the instructions. Installation
appears simple with no drilling by using existing holes
with weldnuts. When I look under my car I see brackets on
both frame rails where the hitch is to be mounted. Since
these are'nt mentioned in the instructions that I have read
I was wondering if these need to be removed for the hitch
installation. It does'nt look like the hitch would bolt on
top of these brackets. Anyone have idea about this.
-juice
-juice
-juice
I have a 2000 Legacy GT (5 spd MT) with ~65k miles that displays the exact same characteristics as sfnova's problems: juddering or binding during tight turns when hot. I first suspected CV joints, but boots are fine and no unusual rotational play is evident when the wheels are jacked up.
I'll try getting a good transmission flush, but I'll bet they'll try to sell me a bunch of new parts. We'll see . . .
Also, anyone know of an online service manual that includes the manual tranny? I found a great one, but it only covers the automatic.
Thanks,
Peter
You fill via the yellow dipstick. I ran a tube down from the engine compartment and then put a funnel on the top of that tube. Poured in just under 4 quarts of 75w90 GL5 gear oil, just until it begins to spill out of the filler hole.
It's messy so wear gloves and take your time. But overall it's not any harder than changing engine oil.
-juice
I found this job much easier after I completely removed both mufflers rather than just letting them hang.
I love everything about this car and look forward to a very long term relationship here in Bellingham, WA ((where the car will see much family duty up to Mount Baker (skiing/snowboarding), down to Seattle, and over the Cascade Mountain passes to the in-laws amongst other trips.))Not only is this car a good practical fit on all fronts for our active family of four, but I really love the styling -even more so than the pre-2005 models, which I always coveted.
I am also stoked to own what has always been portrayed as one of the more reliable cars on the road. And in the event it does need work, it won't cost me an arm and a leg like some other cars. Reassure me this is the case, have I really bought one of the more reliable cars out there?
Finally, I thought it was really cool to find these Subie message boards. I've also lurked around the Ultimate Subaru Msg board. Got to say, it's kind of addicting to read all the positive feelings and feedback. Makes me even more excited to be a new Subaru owner. Any other resources/sights worth visiting?
:confuse:
I totally agree with you about completely removing the mufflers. Took me only about 15 minutes to remove both of them. Removing them made the job much easier - allowed me to get everything aligned properly as well as providng good access to get a torque wrench on the bolts.
juice, That is the correct instruction for the diffy, however, the manual tranny has a dipstick and should be filled to the "full" mark. (Just a thought...mine is a 2000 so your instructions may be correct for a '99.)
The drain is very close to the "Y" of the exhaust pipe. If you get gear oil on the exhaust, it's going to stink until it burns off. Consider shielding the exhaust pipe while draining.
Jim
-juice
The RAV4 has very little clearance, in the 7" range. Consider a Forester, maybe even an LL Bean with the self-leveling rear suspension.
-juice
All I've ever done to it (other than oil/filter changes every 5,000) is new brake pads, new battery (last year), new timing belt (at 89,000) and a new clutch (recently).
I guess I got lucky.
I thought you were supposed to "hike" the trails - not drive up them! :-)
Matt