Subaru Legacy/Outback

ateixeira

That is weird. Did someone borrow it and use it to collect the golf balls at a driving range?

All the panels you're describing are galvanized steel. Aluminum is on the hood and trunk, but you didn't mention those are being dinged, and they're less sturdy. So that is very strange.

-juice

chrisl22

I just bought a new outback and am considering getting a "protection package" for the paint and interior (carpet and leather fabric) since I'm in the mountains alot with dust and tree sap, etc. I got a price of $495 for all interior and paint from a local autodealer: 7 year warranty with a product called Perma Plate. This is two years longer and $100 cheaper than what my local Subaru dealers are offering.

Does anybody have any experience with this product and would you recommend it or not?

Thanks,

Chris

cptplt

I paid 1560 for the zero deductible 7/100. you could probably get it down a little more but its a decent price. I usually figure 40% off "list" is pretty good, but I know some people have managed to get almost 50%.

chrisl22

Where did you get that $1375 quote from, if I could ask? Am I right in thinking that you can just buy a Gold Plus warranty by phone anywhere across the country?

cptplt

you are not restricted to buying from the dealer you purchased the vehicle from and you can buy it anytime before the 3/36 factory warranty is out, there are some dealers who will do it over the internet. when I got my WRX 4 yrs ago I found a dealer in new england with a great price then called around several local chicago dealers, one was willing to match it but wanted me to come into their showroom in person , the others balked. I got it from the guys in NE as they had sent me a stamped addressed envelope with all the paperwork done, all I had to do was sign it and send in the payment and 2 weeks later my paperwork arrived from Subaru. did similar with my Tribeca, but the selling dealer was willing to match my web price this time.

fibber2

Mostly true.... There are a few states (like Florida) in which interstate warranty purchases are prohibited.

angelobanjo

Anyone compared the turbo vs. the six at higher altitudes (say above 6,000 ft)? We've had audi/vw turbos in the past and love the pep (especially when going over mountain passes).

Does the six cylinder really take a hit when at high altitudes?

Thanks,
Angelo

ateixeira

Absolutely, any normally aspirated engine will. The atmospheric air is less dense. Unless you're forcing it in to the cylinders, you have less oxygen to burn and will produce less power. No question.

-juice

angelobanjo

Thanks Juice,

I know this is technically the case, but I'm looking for real world driving experiences. Is there really a noticeable difference, and if so, was it a deal breaker?

Angelo

ateixeira

I'll let someone from Colorado answer that. Here on the East Coast the highest peaks are nowhere close to what they get.

My dad just went to the Canadian Rockies (loved it!), and told me the GMC Envoy he rented felt a bit wheezy at higher elevations.

-juice

sfnova

at high temps, after driving 20 min., our subaru, 115,000 miles, has gradually developed difficulty in turning in tight spaces such as parking lots. at first the wheels felt as if they were flat - now they feel like they are squar-ish. we took it to the local subaru dealer and they said it was in the AWD mechanism and would recommend opening/replacing the "viscous unit" at $600-700 for parts plus $800 for labor. they are suggesting ditching the car since we haven't had many expenses on the car yet...clutch, catylic convertor sensor O sensor. anyone else heard of such a thing?

fibber2

Binding in the AWD system can indeed make tight steering moves difficult. I would suggest that you find a quick oil change shop that can do a fluid flush with a solvent package to see if varnish buildup can be removed. If it works you are miles ahead. If it doesn't help, you are only out another $75 or so.

Steve

ateixeira

Ditch the car? No way, that's worth fixing, easily.

-juice

sfnova

Thanks for the suggestion. this fluid flush will clean the engine of oil but not the viscous coupling unit? or are they one and the same? the subaruspecialists.com site was helpful. makes it seem like it's a separate box.

suze

fibber2

Suze,

Sorry, I should have been more clear. This is not an engine oil flush, but a particular type of tranny service.

The automatic transmissions in these cars contains essentially three units in a single housing. The front differential is in the forward, lower section and has it's own dip stick & drain plug, and uses 80w90 gear oil. The main 4 spd tranny & torque converter shares its fluid with the 'center' differential. This differential is electronically controlled, and is located in the tail section of the case. Its job is to distribute power front to rear. If this center diff binds up, it will not let the front wheels roll smoothly thru a tight turn, as the sum of the front arc is different from the rear arc.

Some quick oil change shops & some tranny shops have the power flush systems that might help you. One thing to note - while the center diff & tranny share fluid, there is only a small orifice that routes fluid between them. So it is important that the innards spin during the flush, otherwise the tail section may receive little benefit. Ask the tech if it is possible.

Steve

sfnova

Steve,
Thanks again. Ours is a manual but your advice may still apply. The service station changed the fluid with synthetic [?] and added LTD slip transaxle conditioner, but problem is still there. They are predicting doom. Is this common in subarus of this age? should we consider changing the part?
Suze

fibber2

Oops.... made the assumption that we were talking about an automatic.

The manual uses a different system. The front diff is probably much the same. The 5 spd gearbox uses gear oil, and I believe the rear tail shaft center diff uses a fixed (non-electronic) torque split clutch plate arrangement with its own fluid reservoir. I don't know much more about it than this, nor can I comment about service life. I don't suspect it to be problematic, as the number of inquiries like yours is practically zero. But I will let someone else jump in here that might be able to help you more.

Steve

sgaddy

Why is it a problem?

luvmbooty

I've looked at various ratings for both including Edmunds editors, IIHS, JD Power, C.R. They both rate the same or very close.

The price, horsepower, and MPG are also very close.

The only difference is the obvious. Forester is a crossover SUV and the Legacy is a sedan (not considering wagon because of increased price). Meaning Forester has more passenger and luggage space. But the Legacy has curtain side airbags, Forester doesn't. I have children. I would want side curtain airbags. Forester seems to me would be a family centered vehicle. Why wouldn't it have the airbags? :confuse:

ateixeira

http://www.edmunds.com/ownership/safety/articles/105563/article.html

Adults Are Protected, but Kids May Not Be

-juice

ephemere1

Not sure which engine/trim you are considering, but with current incentives the Legacy 2.5i wagon costs about $1,500 less (carsdirect.com) than the Forester X w/ premium package and has roughly comparable features and more passenger/cargo space. EPA 95/31 for Forester, 97/34 for Legacy. You might also want to look at this thread:

http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=689844

ateixeira

You probably mean the 2.5i SE package. That adds the moonroof to the base 2.5i.

Equipment is close, but one important thing is missing from the Legacy SE: the all-weather pack. You do not get heated seats, heated mirrors, or a wiper de-icer.

Actually, now that I look, there's more than that. The Forester X Limited also has a rear limited-slip differential and a 6CD changer as well.

To be honest that stuff is easily worth the $1500 difference if you priced those out individually.

I've been watching those closely because I want cloth but I want heated seats. We had 6CDs in both our cars now, so that would also be hard to give up. And we love moonroofs, both our cars have aftermarket ones.

-juice

luvmbooty

Great article! Thank you! :shades:

luvmbooty

I'm looking for a vehicle with an out-the-door price of under $25,000. Most likely the base trims. The 2.5i for Legacy and the 2.5x for Forester. I checked on fueleconomy.com and Legacy is listed 93 cubic feet passenger volume and 11 cubic feet luggage volume. The Forester listed at 95 cu ft passenger and 31 cu ft luggage.

luvmbooty

97/34 EPA is listed for the wagon not the sedan. I've also been considering the Hyundai Sonata GLS I4, which its MSRP is considerably lower. I'm trying to find cars with the best crash test scores at the most affordable price.

ateixeira

The sedan is a lot smaller, less rear head room and a lot less cargo room.

We have a 98 Forester and an 02 Legacy. The Legacy fits longer items better, but the Forester just seems more versatile, fitting tall/boxy items better.

The Forester is pre-wired for a tow hitch; the Legacy is not. The Outback is, though.

-juice

cptplt

how much does that really help??? my 98 legacy doesn't have it but my WRX does, I never go off road.

akg

I just bought an '06 Outback from a friend of mine who purchased it brand new a couple months ago, then realized that he didn't really fit in it. His loss was my gain and I got it with 1800 miles. It now has 2043 miles and I'd like to purchase a Gold Subaru extended warranty.

I don't want to buy it from my local dealership. Don't ask. But, years back when I bought my '01 4Runner, a very helpful person on the Edmunds Toyota forum helped me to purchase a Platinum Toyota warranty from his dealership just over wholesale.

So, anybody know of a Subaru dealership out there that is well priced for an extended warranty? I am in California, but I believe it doesn't matter where I am, at least it didn't with the Toyota warranty which was in Washington DC. Thanks!!

cptplt

Curry Subaru in MA used to sell online but a google search doesn't find a site for them anymore but you could call them. subaruwrxparts.com and some other subaru parts places whose names I can't recall offhand also sell on line but when I was looking last year for my Tribeca their prices were not as good as Currys. I purchased my WRXs ext warranty from Curry and they were easy to work with, give them the VIN and your name , address etc, they send you the Subaru paperwork to sign and you send back payment and Subaru sent me all the warranty papers.

akg

Great Thanks! I'll give them a try. Any others?

xwesx

Depends a lot on why you need it. In terms of performance driving (i.e., WRX), LSD is good because it helps prevent tire slippage under acceleration. For my purposes, I would find it helpful in those instances where I have a low-traction situation (such as icy, uneven terrain, deep slush, etc). Once one tire on each axle loses traction, it is all over - time to break out the shovel. If my '96 had a rear LSD, it would take three tires losing traction (quite a rare instance!) to reach that point. If you are not a performance driver and have little or no ice/snow, then it "helps" just about nil.

sb55

There is a Curry Subaru in Yorktown, NEW YORK.

ddunbar

Are you saying that without LSD, that AWD doesn't help tf two tires slip?

cptplt

Curry is a pretty common dealership name in my experience!!
http://www.curry.subarudealer.com/

but they don;t have a seperate warranty website anymore flogging cheap warranties.

xwesx

Not on mine. Once I lose traction with one tire on each axle, it is done. Now, every time this has happened, it has been one wheel on each axle and each side (so opposite corners, never the same side), so I am not sure if it would get stuck if, say, the two low traction tires were on the same side. Hmm. Well, anyway, Subaru's AWD has continued to advance since 11 years ago, so it is likely "smarter" than it was then. The only time I get it stuck is when I pack so much snow, slush, etc., under it that it lifts the body and takes the weight off the tires. The rear is not a big deal, but high-center the front end and dig. In that regard, I am not sure even LSD in the rear would help me too much!

Maybe some of the owners with newer OBWs will chime in here with their experiences. I cannot be the only owner who loves driving his Subaru in adverse conditions...

fibber2

Think about it.... The center diff forces power to both the front and rear (different torque split depending on conditions and the car/engine/tranny model). From there, however, if both the front and rear differentials are 'open', a spinning wheel on each axle (doesn't matter which side) will steal 100% of the torque. If you have a limited slip rear, then both the left and right rear will get a share.

If you have the VTD/VDC setup which uses the brakes to clamp down on the spinning wheel, you will effectively have a front 'limited slip' setup as well.

Steve

bkaiser1

That's correct -- with open (non-LSD) differentials, the power takes the path of least resistance, so if you've got one tire on each axle on ice, the car's not likely going to move. In essence, 4wd with open diffs is functionally 2wd, and a 2wd vehicle is essentially 1wd. So 4wd "doubles" your traction, but that's still leaving open the possibility of losing traction in slick conditions.

For what it's worth, both of the Subarus that I have owned (Outback and WRX) had a limited slip rear end and I never got stuck in the snow or mud with either of them. It doesn't make the car unstoppable, but the addition of a LSD does seem to give you one extra layer of protection against getting stuck in the deep stuff.

Brian

xwesx

so if you've got one tire on each axle on ice, the car's not likely going to move.

Not to be argumentative, but ice was a bad example. Ice, in and of itself, will not stop you. Combine it with deep snow, etc., and then you'll start having problems.

fibber2

To take Brian's post one step further as his illustration was quite good....

2wd with an open diffy is 1wd
2wd with a limited slip diffy or traction control is 2wd on one axle
4wd with two open differentials is 2wd, but on two axles
4wd with a limited slip rear is 3wd drive
4wd with VCD/VTD is 4wd

Now torque might not be spit evenly in each of the cases listed above, but by now you hopefully get the general concept!

Steve

rdowney

When we closed on a new Outback last night, we were offered Subaru extended warranties at dealer cost (which seemed to be half of list price) plus $1. We paid $1076 for a 7 yr/100k gold plan. The dealer was Burnsville Subaru in Minnesota. I have no idea if they would do this deal if you weren't buying a car, but there was no mention of it until after we bought the Outback.

fibber2

If that is for the $0 deductible plan, I'd say that you did pretty well.

rdowney

We did the $50 deductible. The 0 lists at $2460 and--even at half price--would have cost us another $155. Based on our experience with two previous Subarus, we decided that the odds were against using the plan more than three times. On the other hand, I really wished that I had bought an extended warranty when my 98 Outback overheated with 95,000 miles.

fibber2

Back in early '03 I purchased the Gold 6 yr / 80k / $0 ded plan for $799 thru the internet (out of state, no sales tax). Considering price increases, the increased coverage you got, etc., you did fine.

I went zero deductible because my local dealer is a crook, and always tries to scam on something. Figured there would be less opportunity for games if I had no built in liability.

Steve

ateixeira

I think you got a historical best-price-ever. Some people pay $1400 for that coverage.

-juice

wanttobuy1

I looked at a used Legacy Outback with 135K+ miles, and the owner had just had the timing belt and other belts and pumps changed in the last few months. I know most people replace these at 105K miles or sooner, so I wonder about the owner saying it just didn't need to be done sooner. (Obviously, the car continued to be driven until 135K miles, but I wonder if there will be problems later because of it.) She had some maintenance receipts, but the only one I saw for regularly scheduled service was for 90K, so I'm not sure how well they took care of the car in general. Any advice on whether this car even would be worth taking to a mechanic, or would it be a waste of my time and money?

imbrettscott

i want to put a wrx engine in my 86 gl-10 wagon. does anyone know if this is possible? impossible? any other suggestions? i just want 150+ hp for further lifting and 4bying purposes.

xwesx

Hard to say; depends on whether all that "regularly scheduled maintenance" was done at all. Some of it, if not done, could spell trouble down the road. As for the timing belt - it is not a problem unless it breaks. The 105K schedule on them tells me that they should last much longer than that, but perhaps not safely (meaning there is a possibility they could break). If it were to break, the engine is pretty much toast, so better to not take a chance. 135K is a lot of miles to wait!

ateixeira

They took a risk but I agree, it's an interference design so the engine would have exploded if the belt broke, since it didn't he got away with it.

...and you have a newer belt that will last until 240k miles.

-juice

mikenk

I recently bought some replacement oil filters for my 2001 Outback H6 and 2002 WRX. The filters are smaller than the originals; dealer said they are a direct replacement and that the originals are discontinued. True?

PN 15208AA09a 65mm

Thanks,
Mike

subearu

According to ScoobyMods, the black AA09A filter had issues with some leaking, so they discontinued it earlier this year. I think there was a certain batch that had issues.

H4 NA and Turbo motors = 15208AA100, H6 Motor = SOA5165109

-Brian