Subaru Legacy/Outback

subiefan1

Oops. I meant lose a second from 0-60 using a stick....

ateixeira

I knew what you meant.

-juice

kens

Regarding torque, the ideal situation would be to have a very flat torque curve so that the engine produces the same level of torque at all RPMs. In reality, all engines have a sweet spot where they make peak torque.

Depending on the application, one would want torque to be either at low or high RPMs. For a daily driver with lots of stop and starts, low RPM torque results in a vehicle that is snappy off the line. However, the same car would be quite unsatisfying to drive, say on a track, where the engine would be seeing high RPMs. Of course, RPMs also depend on the transmission gearing the manufacturer choses as well.

As for octane requirements, why doubt what the manufacturer recommends? They engineered and tested the vehicle so why try and skimp out on $0.10/gallon by going to a lower grade? If you do the math, you really don't save THAT much by dropping grades. Furthermore, engines often run less efficiently at octane levels outside their spec so the cost savings may even be a wash.

Ken

occking

I just put on a set of Triple Treads as well & will get their first test today on trip to Quebec (from Prov RI area) I am concerned about gas mileage decreasing (have 2.5 ltd outback) Have you noticed any changes???

rwenger

Could someone tell me in what month the new models of Legacy and Outback wagons can be purchased--e.g., the 2007 models. Any conjectures concerning what upgrades might be included in the next model? Thanks.

jeffmc

My guess would be May or June. Not sure what kind of upgrades will be made to the standard equipment list, as it's already pretty good, and 2006 already received a structural tweak which allowed it to ace the crash tests.
If I had to guess, I'd say increased availability of HID headlights, VDC (stability control), and navigation as options throughout the lineup, and the replacement of the remaining 4-speed automatic transmissions with their nice 5-speed auto. I could also see Subaru adding snazzy blue puddle lights like the new B9 Tribeca's.
If sales are slow, maybe we'll even see the incorporation of the new corporate grill along the lines what Impreza just received for '06, but I wouldn't bank on it.

ulpilot

Message:
I have a 2003 Legacy GT Station Wagon which came with 205/55/16 tires on 16" wheels. I want to install a "winter package" consisting of 195/60/15 tires on 15" wheels.

A 15" package is a lot less expensive that a 16". I went to 2 Subaru dealers and they knew less about it than I did. At least they would not commit to the 15" and that I should go to the tire sellers. I did this and they said they couldn't tell without the 15" inch wheels. Something about the "calipers" might be different.

They all said to go to "Tire Rack" on the internet and of course they would be happy to sell me anything I wanted, but no guarantee as to fit.

Isn't a Legacy L wagon and a Legacy GT basicaly the same suspension wise except the L comes with 15" wheels and the GT comes with 16" wheels?

Is there anyone who has made this change successfully?

Any help is greatly appreciated.

leo2633

I can tell you this. The 15 inch steel wheels I have for my Forester's winter tires definitely do NOT fit on my wife's 2003 Outback, due to the brake calipers. Give the Tire Rack a call. They will definitely be able to help you, but you may be stuck with 16" (or larger).

Len

robr2

Go to tirerack.com. They do actual fitments of steel and alloy wheels.

I just checked for you and they state you cannot downsize to a 15" on an 03 Legacy GT wagon and they are already sold out of 16" steel rims for the season.

ateixeira

Yup, they are trying to make sure you have enough clearance for the brakes. The brake caliper is the part that comes closest to the inside of the rims, so that is why they mention it.

I doubt most 15" rim will fit, though there may be rare exceptions (the Gold rims on the Impreza RS left an unusual amount of space for instance).

-juice

occking

Just back from 800 mile trip. Same trip I took three weeks ago. Weather was fine, no additional traffice. Gas mileage with the triple treads down a full 10%. From 26.5 to around 24. That is exact calculation based on miles driven divided by amt of gas put on. Of course, the computer in the car always registers more than actual. In this instance showed 26.7

I have a call into Goodyear consumer service to complain. I have a 30 day trial on the tires. Anyone out there with similar experiences, having gas mileage drop dramatically due to new set of tires?

garandman

A 15" package is a lot less expensive that a 16". I went to 2 Subaru dealers and they knew less about it than I did. At least they would not commit to the 15" and that I should go to the tire sellers. I did this and they said they couldn't tell without the 15" inch wheels. Something about the "calipers" might be different.

The GT has bigger brakes. The 05 and 06 models can't go down to 16" for the same reason. You can go to the joe spitz site and all the wheel - and brake - sizes are listed.

bobny11580

Jason,

If you decided not to get dedicated winter tires in Fairbanks how are us folks in the lower forty eight supposed to rationalize Blizzaks? I was counting on the Alaska people to spur me on with tales of snow and ice. But no, you have opted for all seasons. You have let me down lad.

Bob from Long Island

bobny11580

My Subaru OB XT's engine is a tabernacle of the Holy Ghost and I would not put anything but premium in it.

bobny11580

I too experienced a drop in gas mileage when I switched from OE Potenzas on my OB XT to Michelin Pilot Sport A/S tires five thousand miles ago. But that changed as the tires "broke in". Now I am getting same 23.5 mpg I formerly got with the Potenzas. Perhaps the improved mpg could be the result of the car breaking in. I switched tires at 5,000 miles. Now I have only 10,000 miles on the car. So I'm not sure what to attribute the improvement I'm now seeing to.

ebony5

Well I finally went in to have my squeaky brakes looked at. The pads and rotors are O. K. just had the caliper slides cleaned. But when the mechanic was checking things out he found that one of the front caliper slide boots was sticking. They had none in stock that fit my 15' wheels so a set is on order. Of course I have never even heard of this part. I was shown what it is and how it works by the mechanic. It seems a slightly resistant slide is not of immediate concern but I am told it is best to have it replaced. Any thoughts anyone(wesx)?

jay_24

Other thing to keep in mind is temperature. Since Novemeber 1 my MPG has dropped from 26ish to 24ish. Average temps have dropped from 50's to 20's. Happens every year. By January I'll be in the 22 range. By next May or June it will be back to 27ish.

So more than tires may have changed in the last 30 days depending on where you live.

--j

ebony5

To clarify the above message(#11059) I believe it was the pin that was problematic and has to be replaced. Thus both front brakes require work.

xwesx

LOL!! Oy.... a week away and I am hopelessly behind. Sorry about that, Bob, but I really do NOT need dedicated winter tires; maybe it is just comfort level with driving in snow/ice/slush/what-have-you. It is not just the car. For instance, I rented a FWD Dodge something-or-other sedan back in Dec 2001 when my wife and I went tp PA for the holidays. We drove up to Niagra Falls/Buffalo, NY on what, the 21st? There was a huge storm that dumped 7' of snow in 5 days there, and we were there on day one with about 12-14" on the ground. The roads were perfectly dry all the way to Buffalo, then WHAM! There were cars/trucks/vans sliding into the ditch all around me, driving sub-20 on the freeway. I was going about 35-40 dodging all these yahoos and my car had po-dunk whatever all-seasons on it. I do not even recall slipping.

Like I said, at this point, when I get a new vehicle I will probably get a set of dedicated winters w/ rims, but it is not worth the investment on my current Subaru since I feel comfortable enough without them.

I am a bad, bad lad! :P

xwesx

I'd like to comment, but honestly I am not overly familiar with the operation of the disc brakes. Prior to my Subie, all of the vehicles I own/ed had/ve drums all around. In general though, I like to have no problems or potential problems with the brakes.

I ran my van from Oregon to Alaska once on a bad master cylinder (unknown at time of departure!). I was about 1000 miles from my start and 1500 miles from my destination when the cylinder when poof and my brakes along with it. Being a broke college student with a 30-year-old van in the middle of wilderness, Canada, I nursed it the rest of the trip but it made for a few hair-raising moments. Ah, my young, foolish days.

xwesx

It is hard to say this time of year. I was only at about 18-19 mpg before the swap, then we had a few days of -30F and colder days. With that tank, just under 16. Sheesh. I should be driving a compact crew pickup for these mpgs! I'll look more at my #s come spring time, as they are always terribly bad this time of year. :sick:

rwenger

I am considering legacy GT Limited wagons but I really want a black or charcoal interior. The exterior color I'm interested in is Atlantic Blue Pearl for which, strangely, a black interior is not available in 2006. How likely is it that such additional color combinations will be available in 2007?

This could be a deal-breaker for me.

just_phil

This color combination was available in 2005, so you may want to try to find one of those. I noticed that they dropped a lot of color combos for 2006, so it makes me glad I bought mine (white exterior/black interior) when I did. I doubt anyone knows for sure what will happen in 2007.

localhero

Newbie here and I just read thru the archives to glean info on the 98 Outbacks since I am considering buying one.
I gather that consumer reports rates the 98 engine reliability as "poor" because of a gasket failure problem. My question is has this been fixed or is it fixable (like replacing the gaskets once with new & improved) so that it is not recurring?

The ask on this vehicle is $6,900 and it only has 84K on it. If it's in as good shape as the seller claims, it might be a good deal but I'm worried about what I've heard.
Should I run away?
Thanks,
John

localhero

Follow-up to my own post: The owner tells me they've never had a seal or gasket problem, and that the timing belt and all other belts were replaced at 70,000. The "rear transaxle" was also replaced 1,200 miles ago (is that normal?) and other than that they've never had any problems.

Sorry for making my original post longer but I thought the above info might help. I'm no mechanic but I was wondering if since the car has had no seal/gasket trouble so far if that meant it was not likely to. Just guessing here...any opinions would be valued and appreciated.

Thanks again,
John

ateixeira

CR rates the engine "worse than average", but at least it's not a big black dot like on some cars.

The new gasket material is indeed better, so as long as the engine doesn't overheat badly and warp, you'd be fine with a new set of gaskets.

They probably mean rear wheel bearings, which isn't exactly common on Outbacks but does happen on occasion.

-juice

localhero

you're right, CR does rate it as "fair" (I would have bet money that I saw a big black dot) I stand corrected, thanks.

So yes the new gasket material is better but this car still has the original gaskets. I'm not even sure which gaskets/seals we're talking about but are they expensive to replace?
And "as long as the engine doens't overheat badly..." was that a problem with the 98 models? Is that why the gaskets were failing or maybe the other way around?
Sorry, but I did try looking thru the archives and can't get a clear understanding of what I might be getting into.

Thanks,
John

pf2001

Hi all,
The dealer wanted 100 bucks to change out the cabin filter so I'm deciding on it doing myself. I searched the forums to change out the in-cabin filter, and came across the information but too bad the links don't work since they are old. I was wondering if anyone is willing to share the photos or has a more recent instructions for an 04?
Thanks.

ateixeira

I have one on my '98, but I know that it's different. In fact I think even the '99 model used a different filter (2 piece, mine is just 1).

John: FWIW, for the past couple of model years the engine is rated "much better than average", data which agrees with what we've observed here on Edmunds. I think since mid-year 2002 or so we haven't observed any pattern of gasket issues.

-juice

pf2001

I am researching replacement tires for my 04 OB H-6 in the forums and I saw that alot of people like the Turanza LS-H. I notice that some people like the Falken Ziex ZE512. How well does Falken handle in snow? I like the price of the Falken.

Any other comments would be appreciated?

Thanks

ateixeira

I have a set of Falkens on my Miata, but in the snow I choose to take the Forester every time. It's good in the wet, though.

-juice

xwesx

John,

The overheating is typically a result of gasket problems, but can be caused by other things such as thermostat failures, water pump failures, etc as with any other car. The point is that if an overheating occurs, you could likely have more problems than existed before.

The question is not if, but when, the gaskets will fail. I would say that if the car is in good condition now and you are prepared to invest another $1,800 in it for gasket replacement, go for the buy and research the gasket issue extensively (there is plenty of documentation on it!) so you can nip it in the bud early on when problems begin to arise. Or, you could preemptively replace them as part of scheduled maintenance (probably the best option). $6,900? Are the '98s still worth that much?

Maybe with the mileage on it, I suppose.

Here is a recount of my contribution to head gasket replacement if you're interested.

self_mechanic

I have a 02 LL Bean, and I replaced the cabin filter about three months ago. The cabin filter is made up of 2 separate units, one is a rectangular shape, and one is a trapezoid shape. They sit in a plastic frame. The dealer wanted $65.00 for the filters. So, I went to Home Depot, bought 3M filter and cut it according to the original shape and place it back in the frame. Plastic frames are reusable part. These filters have no supporting frame like in air filter. The material I use is Filtrete™ Dust and Pollen 500 - Pleated Filter Media Refills. Cut it according to the shape. That is the easiest part. The hardest part is removing the dashboard drawer. First you need to remove the middle center console that convers the Automatic transmission stick and hand brake. The reason is one of the screws behind the dashboard drawer can not be removed unless the middle center console is removed first. After the middle center console is removed, remove 3 screws, one on the right side of the drawer closed to passenger door, and 2 in the left side of the drawer closed to the CD player side. You will need a 90 degree angle star (phillip) screw driver. I got it from Lowe's. Need to have plenty of patient. Barely have enough room to wiggle the screw driver. After removing the dashboard drawer you are home free. The filter sits behind the drawer. It took me about 1hr and 30 minutes. If you need more details drop me a line. I will try to take some pictures of where the screws and what to remove.
Good luck.

Alland

localhero

Well I've learned a lot but that outback sold to someone else today.
Thanks for all help from all quarters. I'll keep my newfound knowledge handy for when I find the next one.

John

jeffmc

cars101.com is a Subaru-only site that has instructions and diagrams for replacing the filters (and tons of other Subaru info, too!). Here's a link to the filtration page:
http://www.cars101.com/subaru/airfiltration.html

I own the same year Outback, and after having paid to have this done once, plan on doing it myself in the future. Unfortunately, of all the models now with filtration, ours seems the most complicated to replace... but still easily worth saving $100.

jeffmc

Lots of other Subie owners have lauded their switch to Nokian WR tires. Do a search for them in this forum and you'll find many comments. Apparently they're one of the only (or maybe the only) all-seasons rated for snow as well. I plan on buying a set of them in a year or so when my factory tires need replaced.

Maybe some Nokian users will chime in to offer more info.

pacman2004

I bought for my 2005 Legacy GT a set of Dunlop Graspic's put them right on my factory wheels. they are a grat winter tire and I will switch back to my summers in spring. I have a set of Nokians on my pacifica and they are great tire but all most 300 dollars more then the dunlops and do the same job. With Subs for winter go with the cheapest good tire and the car is glued to the road.

self_mechanic

Jeff, great link for cabin filter replacement instruction. I did the hard way because I did not know that the glove comparment can be flipped down by pushing in the knock pins. Now I know. That is the key, other wise the screws are pain in the neck to remove.

Alland

jeffmc

Glad to add my little drop to this Subie-owner pool of knowledge.

pf2001

Thanks Jeff for the site. I will try it. The only part I'm alittle nervous is the plastic clips. Don't want to break em.
Oh well, see what happens. Thanks again

pf2001

Hi Alland,
Thanks for the tip bout the filter Hmm, $65 for the cabin filters? I might try your way. I will let you know what happens. Thanks again.

pf2001

I will take a look. I know each tire has its pros and cons. Trying to get most bang for the buck

pf2001

Just passing this information if you have not seen this yet.
I think the Nokian WR tires might be alittle extreme since we do not have really cold winters in the philly are. I can see in the northern states or Canada to get this tires.

http://www.consumersearch.com/www/automotive/tires/reviews.html

I will let you know what I decide on.
Thanks again

amsbear

I just replaced my Nokian WRs after 55,000 miles which is about the expected life of these tires. I thought they were excellent in wet and snow but maybe somewhat overkill for the NJ weather.

Now I have a set of Yokohama Avid TRZ which are again unidirectional and have very good wet and snow ratings but don't have the All Weather Plus rating of the Nokians.

My tire size is 205/70/R15 and due to the sidewall height and flexibility, I felt that the WRs didn't corner as well as I prefer. The Avid TRZ is much better in the performance category and are rated for 80k miles.

The cost differential made the decision easier too.
Nokian WR $112
Yoko Avid TRZ $79

Alan
98 OBW Ltd (~110,000 miles)

pf2001

That is what I read as well about the Nokian WR. They do not corner well, but great in bad weather.
Yeh, can't beat the price. I saw that Falken ZE512 cost $55 -$63?
Has anyone heard anything about the Nokian I3? Just curious.

lfdal

You might want to shop the filters on-line. I pay $31 for the one in my wife's 03 OBW, and about the same for the one in my 04 FXT

mrk610

I have a 02 Outback and I was wondering . My car is the base model so it didn't come with the filters. Do you think it still has the place to put the fliters in.

Mike k

fibber2

My only word of caution would be to do this work in the summertime when the plastic is warm and pliable, rather than on a cold winter day. I found that the tab on the center console side strip came off easier, as did the glove box 'pins' when they were warm.

If you have any other accessories to install, this is also the perfect time. I did the alarm system upgrade, as well as the sound system subwoofer install. Much of what you need to get to with these items can be reached when you have the glove box assembly and console side strip out.

Oh, and great idea about 'rebuilding' the filters! Base model cars do not have them installed (at least they didn't do so on '02 models), so I did have to buy them the first time. But maybe I will refurbish them the next time around rather than throwing them out. Thanks for that tip.

Steve

edit - Mike - yes. The spot is empty and they pop right in. I did notice, however, that the total airflow is reduced slightly due to the filter media restriction.

Steve

mrk610

subadud

72000 miles on my Subaru Automatic Transmission, A week ago spent $1700 on Head Gasket and now 5 days later transmission and differential fluids mixing. Looking at another costly repair. Please read my post at NASIOC for details
http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=929236

Any help very much appreciated. Would like to get a reliable mechanic in the Detroit area to get my tranny fixed. Thanks.