Subaru Legacy/Outback

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Comments

  • viktoria_rviktoria_r Member Posts: 103
    i was offered llbean for $280022. They did not want to budge. I wish I got llbean, but the payments would have been too much for me. So i think you've got a good deal.
  • nygregnygreg Member Posts: 1,936
    Congratulations! Welcome to the club. Sounds like you both got decent deals. I picked up my base for about $300 over invoice at the end of April which was the TMV. Came with security, cd, AWP and auto (in Winestone). Maybe I could have gotten another $100 or so off, but, to me it wasn't worth the hassle and I was also looking for a dealer with good service (I bought mine in Danbury, CT). Rich, it sounds like you got a particularly good deal and at a perfect time of the year to open the moon / sunroof(s).

    Have fun,
    Greg
  • andytandyt Member Posts: 10
    Something has cut up my right front tire. I can drive it, but will feel safer once it is replaced. Do I need to replace one tire, both front tires, or all 4 tires? I have about 28 k miles on the car, so the other tires are worn a bit. I expect that they need to rotate evenly and I will have to replace either 2 or 4 tires. I do not trust my dealer enough to expect a straight answer on this from them.

    I seem to remember some discussion a long time ago about which tires are best to replace the Firestones with, but I cannot seem to find that thread.

    Thanks in advance.

    -andy.
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    I saw at the NY Auto Show was wearing white-lettered Bridgestone Protenzas. I'm not sure which version of the Protenza, however. Same size as the current model.

    If you put the Protenzas on you can tell everybody you have an '02 model. ;)

    Bob
  • vincer2vincer2 Member Posts: 97
    Andy,
    I don't have my owner's manual handy but I remember reading that the circumference of each tire per axle should be checked and there should be no more than "nn" difference between the two.
    I don't remember w/o my manual what the value for "nn" is. My guess is if you have 28k miles you would probably need to replace both tires on the same axle.
    Vince
  • oclvframeoclvframe Member Posts: 121
    As for replacing the tires...just bite the bullet and buy all 4 new (unless of course you are in debt up to your ears and cannot afford to feed the family). Otherwise, play it safe and get all 4 new. If you go to discounttiresdirect.com they have a plus 0 size listed for our outbacks...instead of 225/60/16 I think it is 235/55/16...the rolling size stays the same so no affect to the speedo or gearing. Get the best tires you can afford and stay away from anything ending in 'stone. Try the Michellin/Pirelli/or even Yokohama versions of the lt or ltx tires with raised white letters. Tirerack.com has great pricing and user comments sections on most of the tires they carry...use that to rate the tires since there is no real 'review/testing authority' when it comes to tires.

    That is my $.01 worth....

    .....See, I am saving you money already!

    BTW tirerack.com has partners state wide that will install tires that are bought from them...you simply buy the tires, have them shipped to one of the partners, coordinate and install date and go have them installed.

    Whatever you do, don't drive an a 'cut up' tire.

    I will shut up now.

    -r
  • 20llbean20llbean Member Posts: 83
    Thanks, I am looking forward to a long life with this vehicle. I choose the boxer 6 to get a good life, hopefully 10 years. Deal was pretty decent and was handled online through a series of emails that established a base price. Very little haggling and that was with the trade-in. No pressure for dealer add-ons and I firmly stated that things like rust-proofing should be free so unless it's for free don't bring it up. I considered the VW Passat V6 and the Volvo V70 but the V70 was too expensive and the VW V6 was only available with the leather and 4 matic which drove the vehicle cost to $32K. Plus, the VW guys wouldn't go below $30K and didn't want my trade-in. Besides Porsche, the Subaru outback is the only other vehicle that has a boxer 6 on the road so the hell with VW. VW parts in the later years are just too difficult for your local mechanic to carry nonetheless get, so you become locked into the dealership for out of warranty repairs. Forget dealing with Volvo's, unless you dress and look the part the dealerships in southeastern PA don't even give you the time of day. When I asked them for invoice they stated that the sticker price is the invoice. Come on, I just didn't craw out from under a rock. Another thing about Volvo's, Ford is instilling their 'Effective, efficient ways of production' into Volvo so I suspect that Volvo reliability and quality will drop off in the coming years.
  • evilizardevilizard Member Posts: 195
    >Another thing about Volvo's, Ford is instilling >their 'Effective, efficient ways of production' >into Volvo so I suspect that Volvo reliability >and quality will drop off in the coming years.

    Will drop off? Try HAS dropped off
  • hypovhypov Member Posts: 3,068
    I missed running over its muffer yesterday. :-D
  • mammothsunmammothsun Member Posts: 10
    Purchased over the internet at Irvine Subaru (So Cal)...$100 over invoice, std doc fees ($49), no pressure.
    Broke in keeping it under about 3500 with varying speeds for first 1K.
    Tinted windows all around. With so much glass area it really helps keep the car cool. The climate control is as good any car I've owned. At outside temp of 103 we could have froze ice inside
    Acceleration is disappointing off the line for 212 HP, but on the road if the revs are kept up it's fair. (Other car is an 01 Acura CL-S which is a rocket next to the Bean).
    Gas mileage has varied from 25 on the first tank to high of 27.2 mainly hiway with a/c on. Would expect it to get better.
    Seats I find comfortable (6',175) except the pass seat could go back another 2-3 inches.
    Fit and finish is excellent, stereo fair
    Car has excellent road feel and is solid and quiet at all speeds, except for the one problem I have had. After 1K miles and increasing hiway speeds, I started hearing a slight hum (whine) under light acceleration. Coast and the sound goes away.. touch the gas and it's back. Coming from rear and center of car.
    Brought it back in to the shop at Irvine, they first ran the car on the hoist, then road tested it (mechanic only). He eliminated road noise and tire noise and as we were on our way to Mexico, we didn't have time to leave the car at that point. His best guess was a pinion bearing. said to put another 2000 miles on the car and see if it changes. He had not seen that particular situation on the H6.
    I have owned 2 other Subs and driven 2 or 3 friends cars. None had this problem. Any one else had a similar situation ?
  • rk_goark_goa Member Posts: 11
    I am looking for an AWD for snow. I have converged on Legacy/Outback after doing some reading. I test drove the Outback base and Legacy L wagons. I liked the Legacy L handling and power better (I was surprised at the power part as the weight difference is just 80 lbs., OB 3490 - L 3410 lbs.).

    I have read experiences of people where they have used the OB in up to 18" - 20" of snow. My question is, how much of snow can the L wagon handle (lower height, no rear LSD), and how much of snow can the GT wagon handle (lower height, has rear LSD). The OB is 1" higher in the front, about 2.5" higher in the center, and about 3.5" higher in the rear than the L wagon. We get snowdrifts in the driveway. Also, snow plows dump snow across which is typical. TIA.

    Roger
  • vincer2vincer2 Member Posts: 97
    The noise you're hearing from the rear and center of the car may very well be the typical Subaru roof rack wind noise. We thought a very similar noise in my 2000 OB was a rear bearing as well. The district rep drove the car and said it was the roof rack. I didn't believe him but to prove his theory I popped the sunroof just slightly to alter the air flow over the roof rack cross members and magically the whining noise disappeared.

    Vince
  • francophilefrancophile Member Posts: 667
    An important thing to remember about snow is that tire width is very important in determining traction and grip. General rule is that wide tires suck. Because the L has the narrowest tire of the 3, it would not surprise me to find that a head-to-head comparison found the L to be the best in snow. Also, putting winter tires on any car will vastly improve its snow and ice performance. As for snow drifts - well, unless you're driving a monster truck with 20" of true ground clearance, you're going to wind up going *through* the drift, not *over* it, so traction and torque is what will matter. If it were me I'd go for a manual transmission and rear LSD.

    One more really big difference among the three cars is the effective final drive ratio. The GT and the OB share the same final drive gearing, but the GT has low profile tires; so it feels quicker in acceleration but is turning higher revs than the OB at highway speeds. (I have a GT and I do not find it to feel at all like it is revving too high at highway speeds, but a prospective buyer should note that there is a difference.) The L has a taller final drive ratio and therefore should deliver slightly better gas mileage than either the GT or OB, at the expense of having a bit less oomph off the line. Because its tire diameter is smaller than the OB it might feel very similar in acceleration to that car.

    After about a month of ownership out there in The Real World, I don't think any of that last paragraph will make much difference. Go for a model with rear LSD and pick the one that looks the best in your eyes, and welcome to the club!

    Cheers,
    -wdb
  • kturner1kturner1 Member Posts: 33
    While lurking some other forums comparing Soob's to other "cars," I noticed they were always comparing in the $25k+ range. In case any Passat or whatever potential buyers are out there, don't overlook the Legacy L or Impreza. They can be yours for $20k or much less and are absolutely awesome. They share a lot of the mechanicals and (for me) all of the fun of the upscale models. I've said it here before but: I LOVE my L!
  • jandow1jandow1 Member Posts: 6
    I've been researching AWD wagons, especially interested in safety. But all the problems with Volvo XC wagon made me nix that car. The subaru legacy wagon looks promising, though not as safe as the volvo. But Consumer Reports says the Outback model is tricky in emergency handling. Does that mean the Legacy is also tricky, or not? I drive on a busy freeway that has ice, snow, rain, fog, and any combination of those. I don't need tricky emergency handling.
  • originalbitmanoriginalbitman Member Posts: 920
    Maximum 1/4 inch dif in circumferance is what the manul says.

    bit
  • pattim3pattim3 Member Posts: 533
    Ross may have the right answer. Also, have you ever had some type of oil leak? If you residual oil on the exhaust it might me the cause.

    Patti
  • pattim3pattim3 Member Posts: 533
    I think in due time, we'll see a lower end 6 cylinder become available. Right now it is only on the higher end vehicles, but that's because it is so new. As production of the engine increases, we should have broader availablity.

    Patti
  • pattim3pattim3 Member Posts: 533
    Good Morning. I'd suggest you do a carfax check on the vehicle. Look for any signs of salvage (water damage). Also, you can get a feel by vehicle registrations where the car has been.

    Patti
  • francophilefrancophile Member Posts: 667
    I have a Legacy sedan, not the wagon, and so I can't speak directly to the comments from Consumer Reports. But I'm not exactly their greatest fan; CR has a tendency not to like the handling of anything that isn't a sedan. So my personal view is to discount CR's handling viewpoints.

    The Outback is a stable handling, safe car; however it has larger diameter tires, and sits a bit higher than, a Legacy L or GT, and so in true emergency situations it may not feel as stable as those cars. However it is still leagues ahead of ANY SUV, and it is by no means a dangerous handling car.

    That's my opinion and I'm sticking to it :-) But seriously, what you should really do is go to a dealer and drive the cars. Decide for yourself what handles well and what does not.

    Cheers,
    -wdb
  • viktoria_rviktoria_r Member Posts: 103
    BTW, what is AWP? my insurance agent asked if mine was AWP, and i don't even know what that means! Thanks
  • hypovhypov Member Posts: 3,068
    Always Parked?
    I think they meant AWD.
  • bat1161bat1161 Member Posts: 1,784
    AWP = All Weather Package (Heated Seats, Mirrors, Windshield) ; something I wish had been on my base OB in retrospect.

    Mark
  • hypovhypov Member Posts: 3,068
    unless the Agent is interested in getting a Subaru, what would that have to do with the insurance?
  • theobtheob Member Posts: 148
    The windshield is more expensive on AWP OB, OB LTD, LLB, VDC because of the heating elements in it.
    HTH, Theo
  • nygregnygreg Member Posts: 1,936
    AWP as mentioned by Mark is good for the cold climates. I only really wanted the heated mirrors and Windshield (to keep ice off the wipers), but, I'll take the heated seats too. :) Can't tell a big difference with the heat on in the seats now, but, can't wait until winter to test them out....along with my OB in heavy snow!

    Jan - Consumers stated that "handling can get tricky AT IT'S HANDLING LIMITS" which means you really have to push the car to get to that point - something you won't do in snow / ice. Also, look at the year they tested it - 99 when the new OB just came out. The 01 OBs have limited slip rear diffs which I would imagine at least helps this. However, I don't know what they mean by tricky. Anyway, I purchased the OB anyway and love the way it handles. I feel safer in this car than my 92 Camry. It holds the road much better especially in wet weather, handles rough roads easily and when winter comes...... :-))

    Greg
  • hypovhypov Member Posts: 3,068
    that explains it.
    Funny, GEICO never asked. AWP not even indicated on my policy ('98 OB Ltd.).
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    On our 430 mile drive back home from Wilmington NC last week, mostly in the rain from the tropical storm that swept up the coast, the heated mirrors really kept the water off, and made the mirrors really quite usable.

    On our Forester, they're wired in with the rear window defroster, which has a timer. So, every 15 minutes or so, you would have to turn it back on. I think on the Legacy/Outback you have a separate switch by the power mirror controls. I don't know if there is a timer on those models.

    Bob
  • hammersleyhammersley Member Posts: 684
    are great... even if it's not winter! I use the heated seats 3 seasons/year, and even on cool summer evenings - makes the back feel better! The mirror heat is great, if only because the mirrors are small enough that my scraper can't scrape 'em! (and mine are switched separately from the rear defrost) I wish the 97 vintage had the heated wipers - ice buildup bites!

    Cheers!
    Paul
  • sibbaldsibbald Member Posts: 106
    Mamothsun - I posted the same whine observation (#1678) and it is not the roof rack. I do a lot of highway travel and never use the roof rack cross members. So, nothing up there has changed but the whine problem has just recently developed. If you find out anything, please E-mail me (my address is in the profile). Tks.

    Patti - No previous oil leak but Ross could be right although I would never tell him that! Will let it ride unless I have a similiar problem under dry conditions. Thanks :~})

    Tom
  • kturner1kturner1 Member Posts: 33
    My L has a bit of a whine too. I think it's tire noise. Cruising along on normal pavement - whine. Hit smooth pavement - silence. Same whine 30 - 70 mph, accelerating or coasting in/out of gear. Car is 01 L with 1,600 miles, Potenzas and roof rack.
  • armac13armac13 Member Posts: 1,129
    with my ego it's best that you don't. :-)

    Ross
  • maw1982maw1982 Member Posts: 62
    I wanted any opinions /advice/info. on a legacy. I am looking at a '95 legacy LSi wagon (predeccesor to the GT wagon). It has 163k miles and the following issues:

    1. wheels have peeling clearcoat and beginnings of corrosion (common to subaru alloy wheels from this vintage)
    2. broken power antenna (comon on older cars with this feature)
    3. brake shudder on hard stops
    4. cracked headlamp and broken fog lamp
    5. cd player does not work

    I'm not positive on what I will get the car for (I know it will be <$4500).

    I like the LSi model because it is fully loaded without having the outback treatment (which is overdone and overpriced in my opinion) and the fact that used outback and GT models are outrageously expensive.

    Thanks

    BTW, did this year and trim of legacy have a factory keyless entry system.
  • mammothsunmammothsun Member Posts: 10
    Sibbald.. Read your 1678 post. Same situation except need to get to around 70-75 before I hear it . It is not the roof rack. As I mentioned Don at Irvine Subaru eliminated tire or road noise.This is what he wrote up on the service order
    "Customer states whinning noise from rear end. Test drove vehicle, heard a slight noise on accelerationaround 70-75 MPH like a pinion bearing noise in rear diff..Unable to pinpoint noise at this time. Need to have customer return for further diagnosis"
    Had the car out for a 80 mile drive yesterday and it seems to be getting louder.
    Patti...what is your take ? Would hate to have a bearing sieze up while driving. I am almost 400 miles from Irvine, ca. Who do you feel is the better service dealer between Hohl in carson City and Lithia in Reno ? Maybe meet with a Subaru rep as well ??
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Matt: that's a lot of miles for that kind of money, no matter what the car. Plus, given all the problems it seems it's not in great shape.

    My Miata's antennae was broken by the gate at my garage, and the estimate to replace it was absolutely ridiculous, something like $350 IIRC. I ended up putting in a $14 rubber antennae from Wal Mart and it works great.

    The wheels could be repainted, but it's most likely just cosmetic damage if you don't mind.

    The brake shudder and the mileage probably mean the rotors are warped. At that age, you can forget resurfacing them, so it needs an expensive brake job ASAP. I'd guess at the very minimum $300.

    A headlamp is probably $150 or more, and double that for the fog lamp. You'll probably need to replace both to pass any safety inspections. Usually, if you have fogs, they must work, so you could just remove those.

    Fixing an old head unit probably costs more than replacing the entire thing. You can get head units pretty cheap, even installed.

    But that's a pretty long list of damage, and it likely means the car was not well taken care of. I'd pass, personally.

    -juice
  • nab00nab00 Member Posts: 6
    Hi all.

    Anyone out there know how to turn off the annoying tweeting when you lock/unlock the car? Doesn't say in the manual how. If anyone can help, that'd be great. Just email me at NBor101@aol.com.

    Thanks.
    Nick
  • subirsssubirss Member Posts: 5
    Try pressing both the lock and the unlock buttons simultaneously and keep pressed for 2-3 seconds.
    -sub
  • osellesoselles Member Posts: 6
    I just purchased a Legacy cutback and am considering buying a roof carrier. The dealer is willing to sell a box-like one for about 335 (a discount I was told). I looked into similar carriers by Thole and two stores priced them between 219-235 What was confusing was that in one sports store a salesclerk told me I needed to buy all sort of Thole crossbars etc. costing over 150 and the other store said I could just attach it to the factory crossbars. In both stores, I was told that I could ignore the dire warnings to use only Subaru approved products

    Any advice? Thanks .
  • russ27russ27 Member Posts: 1
    Was your Legacy "cutback" model cheaper than my Outback? Thule does make quite a few rooftop carrier models that will apparently fit the standard factory rack. Check 'em out at www.thule.com. Prices range anywhere from $250 - $700.
  • subaru_teamsubaru_team Member Posts: 1,676
    Good Morning. I'd think if it was a bearing, the noise would sound like more of a roar. Before getting a Field Rep. involved, give us a call so we can review the situation with the dealer and see what is going on. We are at 1-800-SUBARU3.

    Thanks,

    Patti
  • oclvframeoclvframe Member Posts: 121
    Does anyone know of a good place to place a floor jack and jack up either the entire front end or rear end of a 2001 Outback? I used to be able to jack the entire front end of my Accord with a centrally mounted tow hook, the Subaru does not have any such thing...there is a cross member way in about centered with the front wheels, but, there is a short brace bolted to it runing for/aft that looks like to would not be strong enough to hold the weight of the vehicle. On the rear, I have a differential protector. Is it strong enough to hold the weight of the rear? If so, is it better to place the jack on the front of it or at the rear where it folds up and gets bolted to the frame.

    The reason I want to do this is because this way I can simply place jack stands under the either the two front or the two rear jack points. I can either get all four corners or either front/back off the ground and rotate tires, or change the oil, or whatever.

    -r
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Otto: I think you can find clamps that use the factory cross bars, though round cross bars may make things easier.

    Check out the current issue of Consumer Reports - they tested a bunch of carriers, including soft ones and hard ones (long, wide, and big).

    I have a Samsonite soft carrier, and what they wrote about soft carriers in general applies here - it's water resistant but not water proof, and it'll cost you about 1-2mpg. The straps make it a pain to open and close, but it's cheap at just $40 from Samsonite outlets.

    My cousin used a Sears X-Cargo on his last trip and it worked well for his '99 Outback. The older ones are kind of ugly though.

    r - I have used the rear diffy to jack up the entire rear, and it worked for me. Just be very careful that it doesn't slip. I have the diffy cover and used a peice of wood inbetween to protect it from damage.

    I have not jacked up both front wheels, since I use ramps for oil changes.

    Tire rotations are front-rear and vice versa, so I have jacked up both tires on each side at the same time. I used a very long piece of 2"x4" lumber along where the recommended jack points are.

    I bet you could jack the front up with part of that cross member if you used wood to distribute the load evenly. Just be very, very careful to make sure the wood does not slip.

    -juice
  • theobtheob Member Posts: 148
    FWIW, Most of the rack stuff sold as Subaru Accesories is either current or recently obsolete Yakima gear. SubaruParts.com has most of it cheaper than you can get the equivalent at REI, etc. All of the Yak carriers can be mounted directly on the OB crossbars. See Yakima.com for details.

    HTH, Theo
  • evilizardevilizard Member Posts: 195
    Got the Thule Weekender at REI for $220 last year. Mounts onto existing crossbars.

    Yes there is a jack point on the front. It is right in front of where the exhaust system comes together in a "Y". Slide it back there and jack it up. Do use a piece of wood for padding though. Gets rid of slippage and scratches. Go take a look at a Hanes Manual for Subaru. It will point it out if you cant find it.

    On the rear it is the rear differential case.
  • nygregnygreg Member Posts: 1,936
    Yesterday was the first real test of my new OB. Major thunderstorm (which knocked out our power for 5 hours) and I got to drive home from work in the middle of it. Buckets of water with rivers and lakes covering the roads. The car performed like it was dry and sunny out! Couldn't believe it. Not once did it "search" for traction. I was impressed. Can't wait for snow. :-)

    Greg
  • osellesoselles Member Posts: 6
    Thanks for all for the information on carriers (note that REI has a special on the Thule carrier, $159). As to russ27's message, I paid about the invoice price on a '01 (5 sp. winter package). I say that because I have been wondering how do the dealers make any money? The salesman noted that they get a small "reward" from the maker. Does it come from the financing/warranties? Even there I think I got a good deal at 6.5 percent (much better than what my bank quoted)--and I didn't go for all the extra life/disability insurance, nor any accessories, except for a hitch. A CD-player would be nice but maybe next year...

    In any case, I love driving it and am impressed by how much get-up-and-go it has for a non-turbo 4 cylinder (I used to own a Volvo 4 cylinder Turbo that was mighty sluggish at low speeds).

    Otto
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Otto: dealers get a 2% holdback from Subaru after they sell the car. It amounts to $200-300, so that alone does not bring in profits.

    Selling a WRX for near retail, and servicing cars, brings in profits. Even used cars can be more profitable than new ones.

    -juice
  • goosegoggoosegog Member Posts: 206
    Nygreg, Sorry to disappoint you but it doesn't hunt for traction in snow either.
  • drew_drew_ Member Posts: 3,382
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  • rk_goark_goa Member Posts: 11
    In #1380 juice wrote about a neat idea if stuck without a rear LSD: "One trick would have been to feather the brakes and create some artificial resistance on that tire, so power was redistributed. This is what traction control systems do, essentially. The Outback VDC uses this type of system."

    Is this idea tried and known to work? Thanks,

    Roger
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