I'd say invoice plus taxes and tabs is a pretty good deal out here. I paid invoice plus a couple of hundred in early 2000 - but that's before all the dot.coms went bust. Deals should be better now. Welcome to the club.
I had a Toyota Supra that did the same thing a few years ago. It was always worse in wet fresh snow. Whenever the RPM's were low the dash lights started going on and off. I replaced the alternator and that solved the problem. I think maybe the moisture causes alternators that are weak or old to short out and become less effective (just a guess). Also when it snowy it is cold, so the battery will be less effective, especially if it is weak or old. Sten
Thanks everyone for your tips and advice. Way better than when I took it to the mechanic. It seems with all your thoughts it is narrowed down now to the alternator or belts. This is my first time using this site and it was the best ever. I'll come back someday and let you all know how it went! I still stand firm that the subaru is good choice for Lake Tahoe! Jude
Just got back from a 200mile day on the road. In case my 100 mile/day commute didn't clinch it for me, today's driving did: These tires are AWESOME!
I strongly recommend these tires. They say they are M+S, but I can't offer an opinion on their performance in the snow. In the rain, and on dry pavement, the tires are awesome! The ride is a lot quieter, and the car drives as if there is a bottle of rubber cement being poured just in front of the car!
It seems like many people have problems with prices of service/parts at the dealer. So they go to a mail order parts/tire place. Then they get costco to put the tires on, go to walmart for batteries, pepboys for wipers, etc. The dealer has to sell at invoice (or just above) to make any sales, they keep the hold back (3% or $700 on 23k). To sell a car a dealer has to prep it, store it , wash it, keep it lit, etc. - all for maybe $1000. My dealer has 3 sales people, 5 service techs. 2 service writers, and some other people. My point is -the dealer has to pay these costs somehow. i agree that often there is a lot of padding in parts prices, but if they are reasonable I will give that dealer my money because I want them to be there for me when I really need them - I feel the same way about independent parts/tire businesses. Box stores can give you great prices, but service is always worth paying for. Do you feel better about getting advice for your car from some kid who was selling payless shoes last week, or the guy that has been selling and installing tires for 20 years?
My grand father used to say "quality is remembered long after the price is forgotten."
by the way - stores above are just examples- I don't really think that they want to put the little guy out of business so they can get ALL of your money - would they? steve-v santa cruz
Ken in Seattle: I think the prices will probably get even better as Boeing continues to lay off people, but I couldn't wait any longer, I've got that "new car fever" thing going on.
Juice: 02 Deep Sapphire base Outback Wagon, all weather package (wife had to have the heated seats or I couldn't get the car) and the automatic. Yeah I know the 5 speed would have been more fun, but I have 20 miles of twisty roads each way to work and shifting would have eliminated my morning coffee. No place to put my favorite mug with a handle. Why can't Subaru build a decent cup holder? Almost didn't buy the car because of it. Looking forward to waking my neighbors up at 5 in the morning with the squeeky brakes
I had the squeek thing going on for the first few weeks of ownership, but, I can't say I've heard my brakes squeek in the morning while backing up in a long time. I now have 18000mi on my 01 Bean and the only brake problem I have had is the front rotors warped. My car is in the shop right now getting new rotors and pads put on (I refused to accept them resurfacing the rotors.)
I agree with your basic rant on principle but the part that I have had specific problem with is the "... hope that the dealer will be there for me in the future." Unfortunately, my dealer service experience has been poor. Multiple trips to correctly diagnose and fix minor problems, multiple trips due to parts inavailability, etc. And this is after the family purcahsing 3 Subes within one year. My sister-in-law has received the same apathetic treatment from the service department. ( I don't want to bore people by going into further detail. The Crew has already heard my "rant" about dealer service departments.) So... my plan is that after the 15K servicing, I plan on having my OB maintained by my indie mechanic of 17 years. That's why I'm looking to "stockpile" filters so that I can ensure that he is using OEM parts. If I had confidence that I received COMPETENT and good service from my dealer, I would be more willing to pay "list" for parts. I agree that quabbling over a buck doesn't make much sense. Ron
Hello all. I just picked up my first Subaru last night, and decided to share my joy! I got a 2002 Wagon, Wintergreen, 5 speed, weather package, auto dim mirror and security system for $500 under invoice. I hope that was a pretty good deal - I'm not very good at playing car dealer games. I am switching from an SUV to this car, and so far I absolutely love it. Thanks to all for the great information available here. It really helped me with my research.
ron - I have a good dealer (so far) but before my first new car - dealers were minions of Satan - most still are - my sooby dealer and a handful of BMW motorcycle dealers have been the exception for me. I have always found indy services that I felt i could trust and that listened to my problems and did their best to address those. Subaru Santa Cruz has so far done that. I have not heard the same about multi-brand Subaru dealers in the S.F. bay area. -steve-v
Jude, Sounds like you're alternator is going to me. That was the same behavior my old 4Runner was displaying until I replaced the alternator.
Defrosting windows: Had an interesting experience the other day. All of the defrosters worked well, but the side windows behind the driver's door frosted over. It was -10F on Vail Pass :-o, so I figured that since all of the critical windows were clear, that was good enough. Theo in Colorado
I've had the rear side windows in our OB fog/frost over at least partially last winter. Too bad the rear defrosters don't work on the side windows. (patti - is that possible to implement?)
Usually opening a window a little helps reduce the fog over. I bet if you have the moonroof(s) that opening them a smidge helps too. But, as you said, the critical windows were just fine with the normal defrosters.
Can H6 owners comment on what they are getting for gas mileage? I know that some of the early H6 owners thought the mileage was on the low side, and I am wondering what it's like now that we have more owners out there and longer term data.
My '01 LL Bean, bought in November last year, now has a bit over 10k miles. I consistantly get between 21-22+ mpg in mainly city driving and that's with the a/c running here in southern Florida. The best mileage was 27. when driving on the thruway from Illinois to Florida at 75-85 mph last April.
I've found the gas mileage is as good, if not better than my old '96 H4 Outback.
I can't remember where I read this, I think some car magazine, but the M & S rating merely means that the tread pattern is such that the contact patch is at least 25% empty (ie there is no rubber there).How well it really does in mud or snow is totally unrelated to this rating.As long as you meet that criteria the manufacturer can stamp M & S on the sidewall. As for "all season" , thats not even defined by any govt or industry group. It goes back to the days of tires when tread designs were less than scientific. The new winter tire logos - snowflake/mountain - can only go on tires which have met certain industry traction tests though.
Nice coincidence. We have what sounds like the exact same car, and I too sold an Isuzu Rodeo to get the Subie. I've had it 5 weeks, and love it so far. I'm sure you will too. Happy motoring.
Welcome to Subaru mania. Great to hear that you ditched SUVs for OB's. My conversion was from Suzuki Sidekick to Forester in '97 and now to WRX wagon this year. Do your snow dance if you live in an appropriate area and then if you like your Subie now, you'll love it then. TWRX
I have the engine block heater on my Ford F250 diesel, it warms the engine coolant for easier starting on below freezing days. I wouldn't think it would be needed on a gas engine unless you live in an area that gets way below zero. Same with the battery warmer, which is just an electric blanket that goes around the battery. With both, you need to plug them into your house current, so if you park on the street you would need a long extension cord.
I have a 2K O/B with the engine block heater, and live in Seattle. Although I've "ops-checked" it a couple of time to ensure it works, I never use it locally (rarely gets below 30s in Seattle proper, even in January). I expect you'd not use it much in Boston metro. However, if I head over the passes (or you head up to ski in Vermont), it could be real useful if you're forced to leave the car outside overnight when it gets into the -20 or colder range. I had a couple of older cars "freeze up" (meaning the dino oil of the era got too thick for the battery to turn the engine over) when I lived in Vermont, and would have appreciated the block warmer. When I lived in Norway in the 1970s, they were real common even then, and you could often find a street-side outlet to plug into (avoiding the long extension cord) that looked rather like a parking meter.
I imagine a battery warmer would be of similar utilitarian value, but if I had to deal with serious cold, I'd go for the block heater first, and consider adding the battery warmer next.
Something else to consider in this day of synthetic oils is to use Mobil 1 or an equivalent (you'll see many folks here swear by it). A clear advantage of the synthetic oil is its cold-starting characteristics - it doesn't turn to molasses like dino does.
So if you're headed for serious cold, I'd consider it. If you're a "Rte 128-type" - don't bother.
A block heater is no doubt useful in aiding starting in low temperatures.
But it should be appreciated even more that having a block heater warm the coolant really helps in lessening the wear on the engine that cold starts cause.
Therefore I would recommend the use of a block heater in even moderately cold climates.
Also a block heater is way more preferable than a battery warmer.
First off, thanks for the MPG info, Don. That sounds pretty good to me.
My wife has gotten a little more open towards the notion of upgrading from our base OB wagon to an LL Bean or VDC, so I am again shopping around. What's more, my father (in CT) is interested in buying my current wagon, which really works out great for both of us (I told him about $16K for the 2000 model with 23000 miles).
I did test drive an Acura MDX today, since it is a vehicle I have always been interested in. As usual, my shopping budget always inflates as I get excited, which is how I stretched the shopping list to include the $38K MDX. Truth be told, it is way out of my range, but I still wanted to check it out.
Surprisingly, the MDX seems to be a poor value to me, and there were several defficiencies that stuck out like a sore thumb -- too much wind noise (even after improvements they made for the 02 model year), poor stereo, useless roof racks, and what seemed to be a weak climate control system. The engine, transmission, and suspension were superb, but that is to be expected from an Acura. The rest was kind of underwhelming. Makes the Bean and VDC all the more appealing to me.
I have to do some shopping, but am almost certain I will drive up to DC and get the new car from Fitzgeralds. It's worth the trip. I may give the local dealers a shot, but don't expect much in the way of deals.
I forgot to add that the block heater keeps the coolant warm enough (at least on my Ford diesel) that you have instant cabin heat when you start your car in the morning and also keeps most of the windshield clear of frost because of the heat coming up through the defroster vents. A nice extra if you park outside. Just brought the new Outback home last night. Dark, windy, heavy rain, 12 Miles of twisty roads, perfect conditions for my introduction to Subaru. The car felt solid and handled great. Less road and wind noise than our 98 Honda Accord. The honda's I-4 engine seems to run a little smoother than the Subie's H-4, but the over all feel (ride, noise, comfort) is a little better in the Outback. I'll report back when the honeymoon is over. Eric
You are right -- the Honda four cylinders are much silkier than the H4. However, the H4 has a "rumble" to it that I really like. I do miss the kick of VTEC, but the low end / part throttle grunt of the H4 is equally nice.
If you are going to live in metro Boston (inside 495), it rarely gets brutally cold. You may have a few days in January - February in the single to minus single digits with wind chill of -30 but that is only for 3-4 days at a time. A block heater may be of use on those nights. Personally I don't know anybody that uses one.
Now today it's high 60's and I was finishing our holiday decorations in jeans and a t-shirt. Why did I even bother with snow tires this year...???
Try going to Fitzgeralds website and printing off the pricing on what you are looking for. THEN take the page to your local dealer to get him to match it. You'd be surprised at how flexible salesmen can get when they see a lower price in black and white and the fact that you're willing to walk if they don't match it. I had a problem with Fitzgerald's, showed what they would take for the car to Valley Motors in Md., and they matched it no problem for my VDC. They were a real pleasure to deal with also.
That's a good idea. I noticed there is a dealer in Richmond (about 45 min drive) that has a few LL Beans on the lot. I think I will drive up there tomorrow with the Fitz printout and see what they can do. It's worth about $300 to me not to have to drive into the DC area, so that gives the bargaining some extra room.
1) Has anyone installed the auto dimming mirror/compass to an 02 Outback themselfs? If so, was it very difficult? I'm pretty handy with a wrench on engines and drive trains, but haven't done much interior work such as pulling headliners, door panels etc. The dealer wanted $60 labor to install one before I bought the car. Probably more now. If it was only $60 its probably not a major project. 2) For those that have the mirror/compass, what do you think of them? Are they worth $200 (parts & labor)?
I installed a Donnellye auto-dimming mirror/compass in my 2000 OB. Since then, I got a 2001 VDC and the dealer re-installed it for me on the new car for free.
On the 2000 OB, the install was relatively straight forward. I had an early model and the wiring was not present under the headliner. So, I had to connect the reverse inhibit wire to pin 14 (wire is Brown/Yellow) of R3 which is the connector into which B99 connects. It is located behind the passenger side kick pannel (in front of door and below glove compartment). This is for the 2000 model. Later 2000 models (and later years) are supposed to have the wiring ready under the headliner.
I did not have to remove the headliner. There is enough space between the windshield and the edge of headliner to fish wires with a finger or push the new wiring in place. The plastic cover on the right pillar pops out easily (no screws, just clips). The lower right kick panel unscrews easily.
The whole job took me 1 hour. There are only 3 wires to connect: + to accessory (ON only with key on), ground and reverse inhibit (connected to the rear back-up light circuit). The reverse inhibit prevents the mirror to dim when you are backing-up. My recommendation: get a copy of the wiring diagram for the 2002 to find where to connect the reverse-inhibit wire to the front of the car. Otherwise, you will have to go fish it in the rear of the car!
The Donnellye is a superb unit, functionning extremely well (both auto dimming and compass). The only problem: it is larger than the original mirror and the right sun shade cannot be lowered completely without hitting the mirror if the mirror is set high (to leave maximum windshield vision).
Overall, I found the install fairly easy and the unit excellent.
As a previous owner of an 01 Outback LTD wagon, which was traded towards a 01 Honda S2000, I am considering adding another Subie to our stable. (This would be car #4 for us). My question is what kind of deals have been had lately on these car? Buys, Leases, and the 2.9% financing...what is the term for this rate?
We really LOVED our Outback and would welcome another one into our home. Any help, as always, is greatly appreciated!
Wow, an S2000! Nice car! Subaru has the following rates going (until the end of December):
2.9% for 24 months 3.9% for 36 months 4.9% for 37 to 60 months
These rates are good for all model lines except the Impreza. You can probably get most of the Outbacks (even the Bean and VDC) for very close to invoice. I think it's a good time to buy.
Can anyone comment on road noise and wind noise for H6 LL Bean compared to Acura 3.2 TL or similar priced range car? I test drove the H6 LL Bean today and it seemed that the road and wind noise are a bit louder than my wife's Honda Odyssey. Other than that I have no complaint for the car. Asking price is 1.7% over invoice at Carlsen Subaru in Redwood City California.
P.S. Anyone know what Motor Trend or Road and Track measured the noise level at 70 MPH cruising speed?
I think the Outback will be slightly noiser than the Acura. However, I was surprised that the Acura MDX had so much wind noise (worse than my base Outback), so there is probably not a general Acura-Subaru conclusion to be drawn. You'd have to compare the cars yourself. Note that the OASPL numbers that most testers publish are weighted over all frequencies, and do not give the whole picture. As an example, the Acura MDX I drove was quieter overall than my Outback, but the wind noise was worse (and stuck out like a sore thumb). So, you really have to drive each car and make your own call.
One other thing -- the VDC apparently has additional sound insulation over the LL Bean, but it is associated with the McIntosh Stereo system (ie, speaker insulation) and may not have an impact on road noise. I did drive a VDC a few weeks ago, and it was pretty quiet. I hope to drive a Bean this week, and may be able to make a comparison.
I have the VDC wagon. One of the things that has impressed me most is the overall quietness and absence of wind noise. I have no idea whether it is just my specific car or the extra insulation on the VDC.
Can anyone tell me what the exact name of the "Fitzgeralds" website is (where you can get the low Subaru price quote?) Thanks alot for your help! I am just starting to look at the Subaru Outback 2002. Phil
I too have an Odyssey ('99 48,000mi ~20mpg). I think my 01 Bean (18,400mi ~23mpg) is much quieter than my Odyssey. Once on the highway, you have to really crank the stereo up to sound over the wind noise, whereas the Bean is just as quiet as can be. I would venture to say that it is as quiet as my Mom's TL or quieter than my old ES300.
I just got my first Subaru (see earlier "Newbie Subie" post) but did not get the factory CD player because of availability with the other package and price I wanted. I definitely want to upgrade, but can't decide whether to have it installed by the dealership or by an aftermarket stereo system. I was told that it will be much more expensive to have them put one in at this point. Does anyone have any comments/suggestions/experiences with this issue?
Pat - Thanks for all the info on the mirror, it helps me alot. Nice pictures too. One question, is the Donnellye mirror the same as the Subaru mirror? If not, is it about the same size?
Self Mechanic - Just a note on Outback pricing, if you are shopping several dealers, get a total price out the door, not just a % from invoice. Some dealers may try to tack on a few "ad" or "doc" fees after they have you in the finance office. Up here in the Seattle area I got an Outback for invoice plus tax and license, no other fees. That was a few days ago. I noticed that the quotes started getting better towards the end of the month. I think I remember reading somewhere that the best time to buy is at the end of December.
Donnellye made OEM mirrors/compass for Subaru for the 2000 model. I don't know for the following years but I would guess they still do as this is an excellent mirror/compass. From the pictures of available Subaru accessories for 2001 and 2, it looks identical. However, I don't see it as available on the Donnellye website anymore, so it must be sold only under the Subaru name. The ones now available at Donnellye have a temperature indicator as well, which you don't need in the 2002.
The one I have is exactly the same as the Subaru one (even though it came with the wiring and a probe for a temperature sensor which was not in the mirror electronics, not the standard Subaru wiring connector - easily modified by removing the temperature probe and corresponding pin in the connector).
Recommend after-market. For the same price the dealer charges, you can get some amazing after-market decks. Also, there are great deals to be had, especially with Christmas approaching. I found mine for $100 off a day or two after X-Mas.
I installed a DEH-6000 Pioneer in my 00 OB and it fits in well with the decor. Fits flush with a detachable face. It made a HUGE difference in the sound quality compared to base deck. The OEM speakers are quite good. (I added the OEM door tweeters). In fact, the sound was so good, that I decided against upgrading the speakers. My installer also commented on the sound quality with OEM speakers. If you're an audiophile, you may wish to upgrade speakers....but suggest you wait until after you have a new deck installed. You may be surprised by the sound.
Suggest you visit a couple of local stores that carry a good variety of brands and see what you can get for the price the dealer would charge, then decide. Will cost you $30 - $50 to get the deck installed by professional. Also check out websites of manufacturers to compare models and features.
Keep in mind that the CD player you get installed by Subaru will not be covered by the 3 year warranty....since it was not part of the original purchase.
My wifes 2k OB Ltd. is in for its 30k. Lets see if this dealer can fix the engine knock issue. Other than that problem most of the stuff that was annoying me has been corrected. The only other thing of note is that its getting switched to full synthetic engine oil.
I have a 2K O/B, and installed the 3-way mirror in September 2000 (auto-dimming, compass, and temperature). The installation was straightforward and no-hassle - even running the wiring for the temperature probe wasn't too bad, although I did take down the front of the headliner for that.
Bottom line - installing just the dimming/compass mirror in a 2002 should be a piece of cake. My mirror has performed flawlessly, and we all love it - especially the boss, who gets to drive the car much more than I do. One neat thing about the temperature function is that when the ambient temp is 37F or less, the readout flashes "ICE" at you a few times on start-up, to warn you about possible road hazards (yeah, I know, "DUH!").
Comments
I'd say invoice plus taxes and tabs is a pretty good deal out here. I paid invoice plus a couple of hundred in early 2000 - but that's before all the dot.coms went bust. Deals should be better now. Welcome to the club.
Ken in Seattle
tidester
Host
SUVs
I replaced the alternator and that solved the problem. I think maybe the moisture causes alternators that are weak or old to short out and become less effective (just a guess). Also when it snowy it is cold, so the battery will be less effective, especially if it is weak or old.
Sten
-juice
Just got back from a 200mile day on the road. In case my 100 mile/day commute didn't clinch it for me, today's driving did: These tires are AWESOME!
I strongly recommend these tires. They say they are M+S, but I can't offer an opinion on their performance in the snow. In the rain, and on dry pavement, the tires are awesome! The ride is a lot quieter, and the car drives as if there is a bottle of rubber cement being poured just in front of the car!
Just thought I'd share.
-Pete
The dealer has to sell at invoice (or just above) to make any sales, they keep the hold back (3% or $700 on 23k). To sell a car a dealer has to prep it, store it , wash it, keep it lit, etc. - all for maybe $1000. My dealer has 3 sales people, 5 service techs. 2 service writers, and some other people. My point is -the dealer has to pay these costs somehow.
i agree that often there is a lot of padding in parts prices, but if they are reasonable I will give that dealer my money because I want them to be there for me when I really need them -
I feel the same way about independent parts/tire businesses. Box stores can give you great prices, but service is always worth paying for. Do you feel better about getting advice for your car from some kid who was selling payless shoes last week, or the guy that has been selling and installing tires for 20 years?
My grand father used to say "quality is remembered long after the price is forgotten."
by the way - stores above are just examples- I don't really think that they want to put the little guy out of business so they can get ALL of your money - would they?
steve-v
santa cruz
Juice: 02 Deep Sapphire base Outback Wagon, all weather package (wife had to have the heated seats or I couldn't get the car) and the automatic. Yeah I know the 5 speed would have been more fun, but I have 20 miles of twisty roads each way to work and shifting would have eliminated my morning coffee. No place to put my favorite mug with a handle. Why can't Subaru build a decent cup holder? Almost didn't buy the car because of it.
Looking forward to waking my neighbors up at 5 in the morning with the squeeky brakes
-r
So... my plan is that after the 15K servicing, I plan on having my OB maintained by my indie mechanic of 17 years. That's why I'm looking to "stockpile" filters so that I can ensure that he is using OEM parts.
If I had confidence that I received COMPETENT and good service from my dealer, I would be more willing to pay "list" for parts. I agree that quabbling over a buck doesn't make much sense.
Ron
-steve-v
Defrosting windows: Had an interesting experience the other day. All of the defrosters worked well, but the side windows behind the driver's door frosted over. It was -10F on Vail Pass :-o, so I figured that since all of the critical windows were clear, that was good enough.
Theo in Colorado
Usually opening a window a little helps reduce the fog over. I bet if you have the moonroof(s) that opening them a smidge helps too. But, as you said, the critical windows were just fine with the normal defrosters.
-Brian
8^b
thanks,
Craig
I've found the gas mileage is as good, if not better than my old '96 H4 Outback.
Hope this helps.
Don
Nice coincidence. We have what sounds like the exact same car, and I too sold an Isuzu Rodeo to get the Subie. I've had it 5 weeks, and love it so far. I'm sure you will too. Happy motoring.
David
TWRX
These are the listed accessories in the OB.
What is an engine block heater ?
Are they both useful enough in the cold weather, for me to buy & install them ?
I have a 2K O/B with the engine block heater, and live in Seattle. Although I've "ops-checked" it a couple of time to ensure it works, I never use it locally (rarely gets below 30s in Seattle proper, even in January). I expect you'd not use it much in Boston metro. However, if I head over the passes (or you head up to ski in Vermont), it could be real useful if you're forced to leave the car outside overnight when it gets into the -20 or colder range. I had a couple of older cars "freeze up" (meaning the dino oil of the era got too thick for the battery to turn the engine over) when I lived in Vermont, and would have appreciated the block warmer. When I lived in Norway in the 1970s, they were real common even then, and you could often find a street-side outlet to plug into (avoiding the long extension cord) that looked rather like a parking meter.
I imagine a battery warmer would be of similar utilitarian value, but if I had to deal with serious cold, I'd go for the block heater first, and consider adding the battery warmer next.
Something else to consider in this day of synthetic oils is to use Mobil 1 or an equivalent (you'll see many folks here swear by it). A clear advantage of the synthetic oil is its cold-starting characteristics - it doesn't turn to molasses like dino does.
So if you're headed for serious cold, I'd consider it. If you're a "Rte 128-type" - don't bother.
Cheers!
Ken in Seattle
But it should be appreciated even more that having a block heater warm the coolant really helps in lessening the wear on the engine that cold starts cause.
Therefore I would recommend the use of a block heater in even moderately cold climates.
Also a block heater is way more preferable than a battery warmer.
Cheers Pat.
My wife has gotten a little more open towards the notion of upgrading from our base OB wagon to an LL Bean or VDC, so I am again shopping around. What's more, my father (in CT) is interested in buying my current wagon, which really works out great for both of us (I told him about $16K for the 2000 model with 23000 miles).
I did test drive an Acura MDX today, since it is a vehicle I have always been interested in. As usual, my shopping budget always inflates as I get excited, which is how I stretched the shopping list to include the $38K MDX. Truth be told, it is way out of my range, but I still wanted to check it out.
Surprisingly, the MDX seems to be a poor value to me, and there were several defficiencies that stuck out like a sore thumb -- too much wind noise (even after improvements they made for the 02 model year), poor stereo, useless roof racks, and what seemed to be a weak climate control system. The engine, transmission, and suspension were superb, but that is to be expected from an Acura. The rest was kind of underwhelming. Makes the Bean and VDC all the more appealing to me.
I have to do some shopping, but am almost certain I will drive up to DC and get the new car from Fitzgeralds. It's worth the trip. I may give the local dealers a shot, but don't expect much in the way of deals.
Craig
Van Bortel Motorcar, Inc.
6327 Route 96
Victor, NY 14564
716-924-5230
Just brought the new Outback home last night. Dark, windy, heavy rain, 12 Miles of twisty roads, perfect conditions for my introduction to Subaru. The car felt solid and handled great. Less road and wind noise than our 98 Honda Accord. The honda's I-4 engine seems to run a little smoother than the Subie's H-4, but the over all feel (ride, noise, comfort) is a little better in the Outback. I'll report back when the honeymoon is over. Eric
Craig
Now today it's high 60's and I was finishing our holiday decorations in jeans and a t-shirt. Why did I even bother with snow tires this year...???
Getting 20MPG seems good considering mostly short trips around town...
As far as Dealers...Well a mixed bag...Got what I considered a great deal on the car...27,974 out the door tax, lic etc...
However, having a heck of a time getting a couple of paint problems fixed...
The car is great only real complaint is Wind Noise! Geezz above 60mph really hear it around front windows...
Does anyone know what kind of Extra sound deading (sp) they add to VDC with the Mac radio? Like to see if I can add it to the Bean...
Thanks,
Tom
I had a problem with Fitzgerald's, showed what they would take for the car to Valley Motors in Md., and they matched it no problem for my VDC. They were a real pleasure to deal with also.
Just a thought to save you a drive
Dukephoto in WV
thanks,
Craig
2) For those that have the mirror/compass, what do you think of them? Are they worth $200 (parts & labor)?
On the 2000 OB, the install was relatively straight forward. I had an early model and the wiring was not present under the headliner. So, I had to connect the reverse inhibit wire to pin 14 (wire is Brown/Yellow) of R3 which is the connector into which B99 connects. It is located behind the passenger side kick pannel (in front of door and below glove compartment). This is for the 2000 model. Later 2000 models (and later years) are supposed to have the wiring ready under the headliner.
I did not have to remove the headliner. There is enough space between the windshield and the edge of headliner to fish wires with a finger or push the new wiring in place. The plastic cover on the right pillar pops out easily (no screws, just clips). The lower right kick panel unscrews easily.
The whole job took me 1 hour. There are only 3 wires to connect: + to accessory (ON only with key on), ground and reverse inhibit (connected to the rear back-up light circuit). The reverse inhibit prevents the mirror to dim when you are backing-up. My recommendation: get a copy of the wiring diagram for the 2002 to find where to connect the reverse-inhibit wire to the front of the car. Otherwise, you will have to go fish it in the rear of the car!
The Donnellye is a superb unit, functionning extremely well (both auto dimming and compass). The only problem: it is larger than the original mirror and the right sun shade cannot be lowered completely without hitting the mirror if the mirror is set high (to leave maximum windshield vision).
Overall, I found the install fairly easy and the unit excellent.
Pat.
Pat.
We really LOVED our Outback and would welcome another one into our home. Any help, as always, is greatly appreciated!
2.9% for 24 months
3.9% for 36 months
4.9% for 37 to 60 months
These rates are good for all model lines except the Impreza. You can probably get most of the Outbacks (even the Bean and VDC) for very close to invoice. I think it's a good time to buy.
Craig
P.S. Anyone know what Motor Trend or Road and Track measured the noise level at 70 MPH cruising speed?
Thank You.
One other thing -- the VDC apparently has additional sound insulation over the LL Bean, but it is associated with the McIntosh Stereo system (ie, speaker insulation) and may not have an impact on road noise. I did drive a VDC a few weeks ago, and it was pretty quiet. I hope to drive a Bean this week, and may be able to make a comparison.
Craig
Just another data point.
Mike
And to C HUNTER- I would bet it would be worth MORE than $300 not to have to drive to DC!!
DUKEPHOTO IN WV
I too have an Odyssey ('99 48,000mi ~20mpg). I think my 01 Bean (18,400mi ~23mpg) is much quieter than my Odyssey. Once on the highway, you have to really crank the stereo up to sound over the wind noise, whereas the Bean is just as quiet as can be. I would venture to say that it is as quiet as my Mom's TL or quieter than my old ES300.
-r
Self Mechanic - Just a note on Outback pricing, if you are shopping several dealers, get a total price out the door, not just a % from invoice. Some dealers may try to tack on a few "ad" or "doc" fees after they have you in the finance office. Up here in the Seattle area I got an Outback for invoice plus tax and license, no other fees. That was a few days ago. I noticed that the quotes started getting better towards the end of the month. I think I remember reading somewhere that the best time to buy is at the end of December.
The one I have is exactly the same as the Subaru one (even though it came with the wiring and a probe for a temperature sensor which was not in the mirror electronics, not the standard Subaru wiring connector - easily modified by removing the temperature probe and corresponding pin in the connector).
Pat.
I installed a DEH-6000 Pioneer in my 00 OB and it fits in well with the decor. Fits flush with a detachable face. It made a HUGE difference in the sound quality compared to base deck. The OEM speakers are quite good. (I added the OEM door tweeters). In fact, the sound was so good, that I decided against upgrading the speakers. My installer also commented on the sound quality with OEM speakers. If you're an audiophile, you may wish to upgrade speakers....but suggest you wait until after you have a new deck installed. You may be surprised by the sound.
Suggest you visit a couple of local stores that carry a good variety of brands and see what you can get for the price the dealer would charge, then decide. Will cost you $30 - $50 to get the deck installed by professional. Also check out websites of manufacturers to compare models and features.
Keep in mind that the CD player you get installed by Subaru will not be covered by the 3 year warranty....since it was not part of the original purchase.
I have a 2K O/B, and installed the 3-way mirror in September 2000 (auto-dimming, compass, and temperature). The installation was straightforward and no-hassle - even running the wiring for the temperature probe wasn't too bad, although I did take down the front of the headliner for that.
Bottom line - installing just the dimming/compass mirror in a 2002 should be a piece of cake. My mirror has performed flawlessly, and we all love it - especially the boss, who gets to drive the car much more than I do. One neat thing about the temperature function is that when the ambient temp is 37F or less, the readout flashes "ICE" at you a few times on start-up, to warn you about possible road hazards (yeah, I know, "DUH!").
Enjoy the new car!
Ken in Seattle