Len- Bolt pattern are the same. Offset on the Forester is +48mm. I have no idea what is the offset on the '02 OB. The 225/60-16 stock size leads me to believe it would be +48mm too.
Len: are you making a road trip to DC any time soon? I have a set of 15" Legacy steelies lying around, actually just 3 because I used the 4th to make a full size spare.
You could buy a 4th from a wholesaler and have a complete set. I'd sell you those steelies for next to nothing. E-mail me off line, ateixeira@ifc.org.
I'd rather not ship them because it'll cost more to ship them than their value!
1 set Legacy 14" steel 1 set '99 Montero alloys (sold, not picked up) 1 set new unmounted Arctic Alpins for the LandCruiser 1 set new unmounted Arctic Alpins for the Sube 1 set partly used Michelin LTXs for the LandCruiser
I'm keenly aware of these now that I've started to clean/organize the garage for winter. Time for more shelving....
Bob asked my thoughts on the attractions of the Baja here in Australia. By way of background, I should explain that the Utility (or more usually "Ute"), a car up front with an integrated tray area behind, was developed in Australia.
Ford has a plant in Geelong, about 45 mile from Melbourne. In 1934, a farmer's wife wrote to Ford at Geelong, asking for a vehicle that her husband could use to cart things through the week, but in which she could be driven into town without the indignity of riding on a truck or tractor. Ford developed a Coupe Utility which had a stylish two door body to the front with a load area behind. It was an instant success and has remained a staple body style for Ford and Holden (General Motors) ever since.
For many country folk, a Ute is the preferred transport, ideally carrying a barking dog in its tray (to be really correct, the dog should be a Kelpie, Border Collie or Blue Heeler, all breeds with a fondness for nipping the heels of unsuspecting punters passing by, but beloved of their owners, despite their fondness for rolling in undesirable smelly bits). A lot are fitted with extra lights, a roo bar and a swag (sleeping roll) in the tray.
Australia has a thriving sub-culture amongst the rural youth who congregate at B&S Balls (Bachelors and Spinsters originally, but this loses something in translation) held in outback shearing sheds where they drink copiously, drive there Utes in circle-work in the grass (quickly changed to dirt or mud), hanging the tails out as the admiring crowds cheer and then, if their luck holds out, get to mate with the opposite sex in the tray of the ute.
This final activity is also frequently cheered on by admiring mates. Ute ownership is not something I aspire to! It's a bit too public for my taste.
There are however a large number of perfectly politely driven Utes, used by all manner of citizens for mundane tasks. For many years, my father drove a succession of Utes, which he quietly cursed as he is short and the bench seat with they used to be configured, restricted the ability to move the seat forward close enough for him to reach the pedals. The light tail, fitted with leaf springs strong enough to support as half ton load, meant that handling was always tricky with the tail likely to let go at any moment. More recent models tidy this up a little but utes remain less stable than normal cars.
They are however, desirable for those users who have a real or imagined need for the open storage area. Twin cab utes are frequently Japanese sourced and are generally pretty utilitarian.
The Baja may be a more appealing proposition but I do wonder a bit - it's pug ugly to my eyes and seems a pointless exercise. Still, it will be interesting to see the buyer response in the USA. Some pundits have pondered whether it would come to Australia, but the market size would probably be too small to re-engineer to Right Hand Drive. The competition here for Utes is very strong and, despite the extra utility of the four doors, I can't see it being a big seller.
Now, for the fun bit, Holden look likely to sell their Ute into the US, possibly to substitute for the Chevy El Camino. Given that it is shortly to be given 4WD underpinnings, this may be a serious option for American drivers. Should be fun!
It'll be hard to sell an incomplete set of 3, so anyone interested in a single steel rim to replace the donut with a full sized spare?
They are 15"x6" and will fit any Soob. They'd be ideal for a 2000-2003 Legacy L, or a 1995-1999 Outback, since they have 15" rims standard and a donut spare.
Graham: those are two seaters, in Australia, though, right?
-juice
PS Pugs are cute! My neighbor has one. Dogs love Subies!
I'm going to re-post it over in the Edmunds Baja forum, as I think those who are interested in the Baja, will also enjoy it.
As to the right-hand drive application, as you know the Baja is built here in America, whereas Aussie Outbacks are built in Japan. So, you may be right, in that shipping right-hand drive components to America, then shipping the cars (Utes!) to Australia may not be cost effective. Besides the RHD aspect, Aussies would also want the dual-range 5-speed tranny, which would also need to be shipped from Japan.
Also, as you say, Aussie utes are thought of as—and used as—trucks. The Baja is more of a "lifestyle" ute, which Aussies may(?) have a harder time understanding.
Thanks for the info. I may try to find some Subie wheels locally for the winter tires on the OB. Maybe a set off a wrecked OB, or maybe just another set of Forester L steelies. I'll have to try one of mine for fit and clearance first, just to make sure. I'll post the results once I get some time to play around a bit.
There are some lifestyle derivatives of Holden Utes, but this usually means very hot motors, trick bodywork and terrifying performance. Incidentally someone raced one at Bathurst (a 100km race for road car derived racers) a few years ago with a fiberglass dog mounted on the rear tray. Aerodynamics and handling were interesting but the humour was well appreciated.
As far as I know all Australian manufactured Utes are 2 door. The four door versions are imported.
Imports from Nissan, Toyota, Mazda, Mitsubishi, Isuzu. Probably others, but they all look the same with slightly different badge on front. All powered by 4 cylinder engines of about 2.6 litres, I think.
Strictly speaking none of these are Utes, as they have a tray separate to the cab. A real ute is the one flow through body from cab to tray.
Does anyone know if the cargo cover is covered uner the 3/36k warranty? Ours broke for no apparent reason to me, and I really don't want to open it up and see what's going on inside, particularly if that will void any warranty on the thing. TIA.
I have been looking at a 2002 Outback with 11k miles for $18k. Has all the options of a 2003 except the weather pkg. and the mirror compass, which I really like. I could live without the heated seats.The 2003 has 90 miles and is $22,999. According to the dealer the are no major changes to the 2003. Am going to test drive the 2002 on Tuesday . Is it worth $4k more to get the newer model? I'm not giving them my car as a trade. Their offer was insulting.
has some suspension changes, for crisper handling. I would drive both, back-to-back, and then decide if the handling upgrades are worth it. When I say drive, I mean "push" the vehicles a bit harder than you would normally drive. Only then would you likely notice the suspension upgrades.
Also, when go to trade, having the '03 model will give you an edge, if that important?
Ultimately, it's up to you as to whether the new model is worth it, IMO, I think it is.
You may also want to consider that Subaru is still offering 1.9% financing (3.9% for 3, 4 or 5 years) on '02 Legacys and Outbacks. My wife and I were looking at used '01 and '02s, and wound up buying a new '02 Outback because of the financing, which was cheaper than we could get through her credit union or anywhere else. It wound up costing us less than a used model at a higher interest rate.
You can easily install the mirror compass (with auto-dimming feature) yourself. Buy it from Subaru or direct from Donnelly Corp (who makes it for Subaru and almost everyone else - they have a convenient web site for ordering - packed with product info - I've installed two myself - one on a 2K OB wagon, and the other last week on my Maxima - but mine included the temperature feature which makes it a more complex job - I believe the 2002 Soobs already have an ambient air temp readout somewhere on the main dash).
You'll just need to pop off the sunvisors and the overhead light/sunroof control to make some room to work - then hook the mirror up to the existing power connector and you're set! You won't even have to change the mounting wedge glued to the windshield as it's the same as the basic mirror (make certain you order the proper mirror type from Donnelly - they have a Soob-specific mirror mount). Total time would be a few hours - do it now while it's warm, as you'll be bending and twisting some plastic components that you'll not want to break.
OK... I hate the OnStar thing they've appended to the 2003 Bean. Heard (unsubstantiated) rumor that they're planning a complete makeover of the Outback line next year.
What do YOU think is going to happen with the 2004 Outbacks? Can you substantiate this or are you just spreading rumors?
What do you WANT to happen with the 2004 Outbacks?
"Legacy: The 2002 Legacy-based Outback sedan is available with an optional six-cylinder engine. The 2003 Legacy receives a freshening followed by a redesign for the 2005 model year. "
As you've found, the Legacy/Outback are scheduled for a complete makeover for MY05, which means it should debut here anytime from spring to fall of 2004.
It's also rumored that the next Legacy/Outback will be a bit larger than the current vehicles. The 7-passenger crossover may(?) be an offshoot of the upcoming Legacy/Outback.
As to OnStar, not many people here are fond of it either. It just seems like GM meddling/interfering to me.
"has some suspension changes, for crisper handling"
Is this official? I apologize if I've missed the post or the appropriate forum for 2003 Outback changes. Are there any other changes? E.g. did Subaru add head-protection airbags to at least some Legacy/Outback models, like they have with the Forester?
Thanks all for the good advice. BOB; When I drove the '03 it was sluggish going up a steep hill, course I had the cruise on, maybe that made a difference. It was peppier than the '02 tho.
KEN; Think I'd leave the mirror/compass for my SIL to tackle.
I also looked at an '02, brand new , at another dealer for $21k.
WMQUAN;There was no side air bags on the '03 OB wagon I drove.
2004 NEW THINGS I'D LIKE: armrests, lose the emergency brake on the center console and give more cupholder room. Sturdier cupholders in the back. That's why I like my van, I have a center console that has a tray and area for tissues ,cassettes or cd's and even a trash bin.My husband built it. I like all the safety features on the OB especially the AWD, tho.
"2003 Outback - Only minor changes have been made to the 2003 Subaru Outback. All models have freshened front-end styling and revised front struts. The struts feature internal rebound springs that are said to reduce body roll when cornering, as well as brake dive. In terms of features, the four-cylinder powered Outbacks gain the formerly optional All-Weather Package as standard equipment. The base Outback now has a standard CD player, and Outback Limiteds have an upgraded audio system with an in-dash six-disc CD changer. All six-cylinder Outbacks now have the OnStar communications system. Finally, the Outback H-6 3.0 VDC's premium McIntosh audio system has been fitted with an in-dash six-disc CD changer."
I noticed a few recent comments about the suspension changes to he 03 Outback. During the past six months nothing was mentioned about this change only different grill, chrome rings around the gauges and on star system. Was this not known? Could the 02 be converted to the same struts? or would you gain anything? Does anyone have experience with this topic?
I was gonna mention the chrome rings around the gauges, which are a nice touch. The wheels are also different, and there are a few new colors including a monotone (!) H6, a lighter silver, and a new light green.
paisan: is that the Ford Falcon? I think that may be the name, or at least the car the Ute is based on.
For 2004 I don't expect many changes at all, they may tack on a couple of extra features and hold the line of prices, typical of Subaru.
Subrau's website lists the new light green color as "SeaMist Green Pearl". I was at a dealership yesterday looking at a new '03 Outback in the light green color and it is listed as "Greenish-Grey Opal", and the lower cladding is listed as "Grey Opal". It was parked next to a new Wintergreen '02, so I was able to compare the two. The '03 is a little lighter, with what appeared to me to be a yellowish tint to it. The lower cladding was identical on both. So, "titanium" is the same as "grey opal", I guess. Not too confusing, huh?
Where did it say "grey opal", on the monroney sticker? Or was that the dealer's wording for the colors?
I'd tend to believe the web site. Bob and I also noticed the new color, even side-by-side with Wintergreen. It's more light green/gold, while Wintergeeen is more light green/silver. I like both, though.
BTW - still no Bajas at Fitz, I checked on Sunday. Even the overflow lot had none.
Hi I am an Outback (Impreza 2001 Sport Manual) owner. Before that I had the 1998 Legacy Outback Manual drive.
I am getting a new job and they want me to buy American. I am looking at Jeep Liberty, Ford Escape and others; What would you do?
The reason I need AWD is living in Upstate NY; not a lot of off road but I might get more adventurous if I had a Jeep; but I like my gas mileage and would probably put that first over off roading. Hence two Suburus since 1997 fall.
Thanks for help. I want a good car with as few problems as possible and I have really never had any with my two Suburus and one Toyota before that.
Tell them Jeep is NOT american, they are now german owned (DCX). Buy one and your money will go to some dude named Helmut who speaks English with a thick accent.
Also tell them that Subaru's biggest shareholder is GM, so technically they are american owned, certainly more than Jeep anyway.
yup, it's German now thanks to Daimler Mercedez Benz (and I'm sure Allianz had their hands in it). Buy American?... buy the 2003 Legacy Outback. It's made in Indianna U. S. of A., how much more American can it be?
Yep, the OBS is made in Gunma, Japan, but the Legacy, Outback, and Baja are all made in the USA and american owned. Plus the SIA plant is a joint venture with Isuzu, which is even more american owned than Subaru.
Chrysler is german so they are out. Ford builds many cars in Mexico, and the Escape was designed in a partnership with Mazda, which was japanese but now it's owned by Ford (confusing, no?).
The bottom line is globalization is a reality whether you like it or not. Ford and GM are american, but their stock is publicly held and so ownership is whatever country the shareholder happens to be from.
Next time you see an Intrepid, remind the owner that he helped Canada's (where it's built) and Germany's economies, not the US's.
The Chrysler engine plant (a former AMC plant, then it was a Jeep engine plant) next door to work here in Kenosha, WI has 2 employee parking lots across the street from it. A few years back, there was a big to-do about the PT Cruisers parking there. Managment (not sure if it was 'locally' or 'globally' enforced) said that the cars in the lot had to be USA made. The PT's are made in Mexico, so they couldn't park there. But, the employees argued it was a Chrysler product, so they felt they could park there. I think in the end, they dropped the 'restriction' since now I see PT's and all sorts of vehicles in those lots. Most are still Jeeps and Dodge Rams, however.
the engine plant is the one for the upcoming Pacifica and also produces Intrepid and Stratus engines. It was (up until last year) also producing 4.0L Jeep engines.
I recently got the 02 LLBean and wouldn't hesitate to recommend it over the 03 model (not that there's anything wrong with the 03) if anyone's on the fence.
- I didn't want OnStar. Nice to have it free for a year, I guess, but then you're stuck with the buttons on your dash if you cancel the service. - The 03 felt pretty sluggish off the line, much more than the 02 I bought, but that probably was something specific to that car...? - Great cash incentive and financing on 02s. I bought at $1000 below invoice plus 3.9%/5 yrs. I think this was to end on 9/3 but maybe has been extended? - the "freshened" front end is sooooo subtle, you have to study the cars before the changes are evident. And stiffer springs don't seem all that important, to me anyway. It's doubtful I'll be tossing this wagon/suv around like I did the Integra I traded.
Whichever one you go for, you won't be sorry. I LOVE this car! I do have a couple questions about the audio system on the 02 Beans if anyone is familiar with the stock setup -
Supposedly the car has eight speakers, but all I can see/hear are six: four up front, including tweeters, and one on each back door. Where are the other two?
And are these the stock speakers sold standard in all Outbacks, or the "upgraded" speakers also sold as accessories? Thanks! Frank
Comments
Bolt pattern are the same. Offset on the Forester is +48mm. I have no idea what is the offset on the '02 OB. The 225/60-16 stock size leads me to believe it would be +48mm too.
Side note: The GTs and Ls are +55mm
-Dave
You could buy a 4th from a wholesaler and have a complete set. I'd sell you those steelies for next to nothing. E-mail me off line, ateixeira@ifc.org.
I'd rather not ship them because it'll cost more to ship them than their value!
-juice
-Dave
-mike
only
1 set '02 WRX
1 set '98 Outback Ltd
1 set '99 OBS (15" steel)
Anyone interested in the later two?
-Dave
1 set Legacy 14" steel
1 set '99 Montero alloys (sold, not picked up)
1 set new unmounted Arctic Alpins for the LandCruiser
1 set new unmounted Arctic Alpins for the Sube
1 set partly used Michelin LTXs for the LandCruiser
I'm keenly aware of these now that I've started to clean/organize the garage for winter. Time for more shelving....
Bob asked my thoughts on the attractions of the Baja here in Australia. By way of background, I should explain that the Utility (or more usually "Ute"), a car up front with an integrated tray area behind, was developed in Australia.
Ford has a plant in Geelong, about 45 mile from Melbourne. In 1934, a farmer's wife wrote to Ford at Geelong, asking for a vehicle that her husband could use to cart things through the week, but in which she could be driven into town without the indignity of riding on a truck or tractor. Ford developed a Coupe Utility which had a stylish two door body to the front with a load area behind. It was an instant success and has remained a staple body style for Ford and Holden (General Motors) ever since.
For many country folk, a Ute is the preferred transport, ideally carrying a barking dog in its tray (to be really correct, the dog should be a Kelpie, Border Collie or Blue Heeler, all breeds with a fondness for nipping the heels of unsuspecting punters passing by, but beloved of their owners, despite their fondness for rolling in undesirable smelly bits). A lot are fitted with extra lights, a roo bar and a swag (sleeping roll) in the tray.
Australia has a thriving sub-culture amongst the rural youth who congregate at B&S Balls (Bachelors and Spinsters originally, but this loses something in translation) held in outback shearing sheds where they drink copiously, drive there Utes in circle-work in the grass (quickly changed to dirt or mud), hanging the tails out as the admiring crowds cheer and then, if their luck holds out, get to mate with the opposite sex in the tray of the ute.
This final activity is also frequently cheered on by admiring mates. Ute ownership is not something I aspire to! It's a bit too public for my taste.
There are however a large number of perfectly politely driven Utes, used by all manner of citizens for mundane tasks. For many years, my father drove a succession of Utes, which he quietly cursed as he is short and the bench seat with they used to be configured, restricted the ability to move the seat forward close enough for him to reach the pedals. The light tail, fitted with leaf springs strong enough to support as half ton load, meant that handling was always tricky with the tail likely to let go at any moment. More recent models tidy this up a little but utes remain less stable than normal cars.
They are however, desirable for those users who have a real or imagined need for the open storage area. Twin cab utes are frequently Japanese sourced and are generally pretty utilitarian.
The Baja may be a more appealing proposition but I do wonder a bit - it's pug ugly to my eyes and seems a pointless exercise. Still, it will be interesting to see the buyer response in the USA. Some pundits have pondered whether it would come to Australia, but the market size would probably be too small to re-engineer to Right Hand Drive. The competition here for Utes is very strong and, despite the extra utility of the four doors, I can't see it being a big seller.
Now, for the fun bit, Holden look likely to sell their Ute into the US, possibly to substitute for the Chevy El Camino. Given that it is shortly to be given 4WD underpinnings, this may be a serious option for American drivers. Should be fun!
Cheers
Graham
They are 15"x6" and will fit any Soob. They'd be ideal for a 2000-2003 Legacy L, or a 1995-1999 Outback, since they have 15" rims standard and a donut spare.
Graham: those are two seaters, in Australia, though, right?
-juice
PS Pugs are cute! My neighbor has one. Dogs love Subies!
I'm going to re-post it over in the Edmunds Baja forum, as I think those who are interested in the Baja, will also enjoy it.
As to the right-hand drive application, as you know the Baja is built here in America, whereas Aussie Outbacks are built in Japan. So, you may be right, in that shipping right-hand drive components to America, then shipping the cars (Utes!) to Australia may not be cost effective. Besides the RHD aspect, Aussies would also want the dual-range 5-speed tranny, which would also need to be shipped from Japan.
Also, as you say, Aussie utes are thought of as—and used as—trucks. The Baja is more of a "lifestyle" ute, which Aussies may(?) have a harder time understanding.
Again thanks.
Bob
Graham, you hinted that there may be some 4-door utes in Australia? I thought that they were "all" 2-doors?
Bob
2 sets of WRX
1 set of OBS
1 set of OB
1 set of 99/00 RS
-mike
-Dave
Thanks for the info. I may try to find some Subie wheels locally for the winter tires on the OB. Maybe a set off a wrecked OB, or maybe just another set of Forester L steelies. I'll have to try one of mine for fit and clearance first, just to make sure. I'll post the results once I get some time to play around a bit.
Len
There are some lifestyle derivatives of Holden Utes, but this usually means very hot motors, trick bodywork and terrifying performance. Incidentally someone raced one at Bathurst (a 100km race for road car derived racers) a few years ago with a fiberglass dog mounted on the rear tray. Aerodynamics and handling were interesting but the humour was well appreciated.
As far as I know all Australian manufactured Utes are 2 door. The four door versions are imported.
Cheers
Graham
Bob
Imports from Nissan, Toyota, Mazda, Mitsubishi, Isuzu. Probably others, but they all look the same with slightly different badge on front. All powered by 4 cylinder engines of about 2.6 litres, I think.
Strictly speaking none of these are Utes, as they have a tray separate to the cab. A real ute is the one flow through body from cab to tray.
Cheers
Graham
Bob
-mike
Bob
-mike
Also, when go to trade, having the '03 model will give you an edge, if that important?
Ultimately, it's up to you as to whether the new model is worth it, IMO, I think it is.
Bob
Len
You'll just need to pop off the sunvisors and the overhead light/sunroof control to make some room to work - then hook the mirror up to the existing power connector and you're set! You won't even have to change the mounting wedge glued to the windshield as it's the same as the basic mirror (make certain you order the proper mirror type from Donnelly - they have a Soob-specific mirror mount). Total time would be a few hours - do it now while it's warm, as you'll be bending and twisting some plastic components that you'll not want to break.
Hope this helps - good luck!
Cheers! And happy Labor Day, all!
Ken in Seattle
What do YOU think is going to happen with the 2004 Outbacks? Can you substantiate this or are you just spreading rumors?
What do you WANT to happen with the 2004 Outbacks?
"Subaru is working on a larger-than-Outback sport utility wagon due in 2005; it's a joint effort with GM (?!)...so reports AutoWeek on 06/05."
Source:
http://www.stationwagon.com/sw_news/sw_news_2000.html
Here's an article that may be related...
http://detnews.com/autosweekly/0007/26/talk/talk.htm
What would I want to see in 2004 Outbacks? Well, a little more rear seat leg room would make a nice start...
"Legacy: The 2002 Legacy-based Outback sedan is available with an optional six-cylinder engine. The 2003 Legacy receives a freshening followed by a redesign for the 2005 model year. "
Source:
http://www.autonews.com/news.cms?newsId=417
It's also rumored that the next Legacy/Outback will be a bit larger than the current vehicles. The 7-passenger crossover may(?) be an offshoot of the upcoming Legacy/Outback.
As to OnStar, not many people here are fond of it either. It just seems like GM meddling/interfering to me.
Bob
Is this official? I apologize if I've missed the post or the appropriate forum for 2003 Outback changes. Are there any other changes? E.g. did Subaru add head-protection airbags to at least some Legacy/Outback models, like they have with the Forester?
Thank you.
Greg
BOB; When I drove the '03 it was sluggish going up a steep hill, course I had the cruise on, maybe that made a difference. It was peppier than the '02 tho.
KEN; Think I'd leave the mirror/compass for my SIL to tackle.
I also looked at an '02, brand new , at another dealer for $21k.
WMQUAN;There was no side air bags on the '03 OB wagon I drove.
2004 NEW THINGS I'D LIKE: armrests, lose the emergency brake on the center console and give more cupholder room. Sturdier cupholders in the back. That's why I like my van, I have a center console that has a tray and area for tissues ,cassettes or cd's and even a trash bin.My husband built it. I like all the safety features on the OB especially the AWD, tho.
http://www.edmunds.com/reviews/whatsnew/articles/43735/page041.html
"2003 Outback - Only minor changes have been made to the 2003 Subaru Outback. All models have freshened front-end styling and revised front struts. The struts feature internal rebound springs that are said to reduce body roll when cornering, as well as brake dive. In terms of features, the four-cylinder powered Outbacks gain the formerly optional All-Weather Package as standard equipment. The base Outback now has a standard CD player, and Outback Limiteds have an upgraded audio system with an in-dash six-disc CD changer. All six-cylinder Outbacks now have the OnStar communications system. Finally, the Outback H-6 3.0 VDC's premium McIntosh audio system has been fitted with an in-dash six-disc CD changer."
Could the 02 be converted to the same struts? or would you gain anything? Does anyone have experience with this topic?
paisan: is that the Ford Falcon? I think that may be the name, or at least the car the Ute is based on.
For 2004 I don't expect many changes at all, they may tack on a couple of extra features and hold the line of prices, typical of Subaru.
-juice
Len
I'd tend to believe the web site. Bob and I also noticed the new color, even side-by-side with Wintergreen. It's more light green/gold, while Wintergeeen is more light green/silver. I like both, though.
BTW - still no Bajas at Fitz, I checked on Sunday. Even the overflow lot had none.
-juice
I am getting a new job and they want me to buy American. I am looking at Jeep Liberty, Ford Escape and others; What would you do?
The reason I need AWD is living in Upstate NY; not a lot of off road but I might get more adventurous if I had a Jeep; but I like my gas mileage and would probably put that first over off roading. Hence two Suburus since 1997 fall.
Thanks for help. I want a good car with as few problems as possible and I have really never had any with my two Suburus and one Toyota before that.
Also tell them that Subaru's biggest shareholder is GM, so technically they are american owned, certainly more than Jeep anyway.
-juice
Buy American?... buy the 2003 Legacy Outback. It's made in Indianna U. S. of A., how much more American can it be?
-Dave (driving '98 OB, an American car)
Chrysler is german so they are out. Ford builds many cars in Mexico, and the Escape was designed in a partnership with Mazda, which was japanese but now it's owned by Ford (confusing, no?).
The bottom line is globalization is a reality whether you like it or not. Ford and GM are american, but their stock is publicly held and so ownership is whatever country the shareholder happens to be from.
Next time you see an Intrepid, remind the owner that he helped Canada's (where it's built) and Germany's economies, not the US's.
-juice
Mark
And watch...it would be a Dodge Intrepid, made in Canada, owned by Germans.
-juice
The Chrysler engine plant (a former AMC plant, then it was a Jeep engine plant) next door to work here in Kenosha, WI has 2 employee parking lots across the street from it. A few years back, there was a big to-do about the PT Cruisers parking there. Managment (not sure if it was 'locally' or 'globally' enforced) said that the cars in the lot had to be USA made. The PT's are made in Mexico, so they couldn't park there. But, the employees argued it was a Chrysler product, so they felt they could park there. I think in the end, they dropped the 'restriction' since now I see PT's and all sorts of vehicles in those lots. Most are still Jeeps and Dodge Rams, however.
-Brian
Or drive your Benz.
-juice
-Brian
THX
- I didn't want OnStar. Nice to have it free for a year, I guess, but then you're stuck with the buttons on your dash if you cancel the service.
- The 03 felt pretty sluggish off the line, much more than the 02 I bought, but that probably was something specific to that car...?
- Great cash incentive and financing on 02s. I bought at $1000 below invoice plus 3.9%/5 yrs. I think this was to end on 9/3 but maybe has been extended?
- the "freshened" front end is sooooo subtle, you have to study the cars before the changes are evident. And stiffer springs don't seem all that important, to me anyway. It's doubtful I'll be tossing this wagon/suv around like I did the Integra I traded.
Whichever one you go for, you won't be sorry. I LOVE this car! I do have a couple questions about the audio system on the 02 Beans if anyone is familiar with the stock setup -
Supposedly the car has eight speakers, but all I can see/hear are six: four up front, including tweeters, and one on each back door. Where are the other two?
And are these the stock speakers sold standard in all Outbacks, or the "upgraded" speakers also sold as accessories?
Thanks!
Frank