My wife's SUV has never been off road either. About the only time it sees a dirt road is at church camp. However, it used to go up to the snow reguarly (until I got my Subie). Some of us have other reasons to own an SUV. But I agree that too many people buy them for the "look".
My '01 Bean never opened the front moonroof cover automatically. How could it? - there's no motor/mechanism to slide it. The rear cover DOES open as the rear moonroof opens (a nice feature when your daughter is too young to reach the cover!). It catches the cover and slides it along...
There is a slight hesitation when you floor the Bean on the highway, but when it kicks in it flies like a rocket. I had to escape from two 18 wheelers last night on the Whitestone expressway near Shea Stadium in Queens NYC. I crossed three lanes and left the trucks in the dust. As I grinned from ear to ear, it reminded me of why I went for the H6 - for that reserve power when you need it.... I could hear the truck drivers say, "that's an Outback?"....
Are they still clear? YES No yellowing? NO Does dirt get caught in the edges much? NO Does it make cleaning the lights difficult (edges stick up, etc)? NO And finally, do you have a lot of gravel/rocks on your roads up there? NO.
I live in Greater Vancouver and virtually all local roads are paved properly. During road resurfacing as is being done to my residential street right now, the local yahoos find it amusing to roar along at full throttle in their 4x4 pickups spraying rocks everywhere including over cars and any hapless pedestrians, leaving them choking in clouds of dust. (Probably the only "off road" use these vehicles ever see.) One of these fine upstanding young men almost rear-ended us the other day as he found it difficult to slow down in the loose material from the 60 kph he must have been doing to our more circumspect speed of about 25 kph.
During our occasional sub zero weather municipalities use salt or sand, sometimes both, and occasionally neither (Burnaby). But we find ourselves on gravel roads during our summer road trips or even some day trips to various local lakes or hiking spots. Some are active logging roads and you'll appreciate what a logging truck throws up as it goes by (almost as much as a speeding 4x4 pickup). If anything has ever hit these lights I can't see the evidence, but I do have a couple of chips out of the front edge of the hood. BTW, they sell strips for that too, but I'm not sure if there's one for the Legacy/OB.
I have no interest in X-Pel other than as a customer but I recommend the product based on my experience.
The URL is: 'www.sheepskinexpress.com' and we ordered the Custom version. There's a Tailored version that's more expensive for Ferraris, Vettes and other limited volume vehicles. Great product and these are genuine Merino sheepskin at a good value.
Toyo Observes (directional studless) on the Subie (drives like it's on rails on snow or ice) Traditional studded snows on the MV since it's front wheel drive & goes nowhere uphill without 'em. Could use 4 new ones on the van, but gonna try to get away with just two, maybe even good used ones, since we may only have her car one more winter. I don't drive the truck at all in the winter... it's on static display in the pasture 'til spring!
thanks for the feedback - I dunno the mechanism process in the moonroof; all I know is that mine DID open with the switch, now it doesn't. That's my story and I'm sticking to it.
My Bean flies when it finally decides to, it just takes its sweet time getting there - I think my next step is to ride w/ a Subie mechanic (or three) & get their feedback.
Doug: if you're snow quantity is close to ours (as it should be considering the distance), and if Idaho DOT takes care of your roads the way Washington's DOT's does, the studless in an AWD application should be fine. I was a skeptic, having been a stud guy (TIRES folks!) since I was old enough to drive (since my folks cars had 'em & that's what I was driving). I'm convinced.
Y'know, as close as we are, we really ought to catch a cup of coffee sometime... let me know!
Does anyone have a recommendation on how to clean scuff marks of the plastic trim on an '02 Base OB. The area in question is the trim below the door on the driver's side. There are several black scuff marks on the pearl trim. The cause appears to be from stepping out of the car on the driver's side. The trim does not appear to be scratched, however, the marks are clearly visible.
Yes. The door sill below the door itself. Just from stepping out of the car the sill can get scuffed up. Again it's not scratched just marked up with several black marks. Can these be buffed out? Would wax help clean up the marks? Don't want to use anything abrasive.
Believe it or not, I remove them sometimes by just rubbing them with my fingers. The friction takes them off. Or I use the dry part of a paper towel after I clean my windows...
They are annoying and return on a regular basis. I blame my wife!
Ralph
PS Noticed my '01 Bean registered 30005 miles as I was driving home from a Mets game yesterday. Time to look up what needs changing. I assume air filter, fuel filter, pcv valve, tran. fluid. Plugs & wires are 60K -or longer, I think. Brake fluid? Coolant at 45K? Anyone know 30K maintenance for H6? Thanks.
I'd do the coolant now, and again at 60k. And yeah, I'd bleed the brakes (I got lucky since mine were done when they recalled the brake master cylinder at about that mileage).
Also swap the wiper blades if you haven't already. And do the rear diffy fluid, it takes the same oil as your tranny (75w90).
On the subies are sealed units so no need for LSD additive even if you have an LSD.
That's strange on the newer ATs they have the front Diffy built into the AT, on my SVX I have a separate fluid spot for the front diffy witha dip stick to boot.
Hey, you should have come over for the Wooden Boat Show this weekend! I've gone for 5 years or so, but this was spectacular. It was an international championship and people shipped their boats from all over.
Anyhow, hit me offline and let's swap cell numbers. I don't get to Spokane often, but if either of us heads across the border we could hook up, eh?
Strange...my 01 bean has a front differential and an auto tranny...hmmm. Don't all current style Subarus?
Jim, you may want to look in your owner's manual..it clearly outlines what needs changing at 30k mi....I just did my 30k mi service myself...piece of cake...saved a bundle!
I had the same problem with my OB - blamed the boss and her high-fashion shoes. I've used a product for years that does a great job on such problems: Dobie cleaning pads (by Scotch-Brite). It's a small sponge encased by a nylon mesh. Just abrasive enough to get off scuff marks, tar, and bugs, but not nasty enough to mar the paint. I regularly throw one into the bucket whenever I wash the cars (helps soften up the mesh a bit to soak it first), then use it as needed - typically in the front during bug season or along the sills and other lower areas that attract crud. For tough spots, I might squirt some 409 on first, let a few minutes pass, then go after it with the Dobie. If that doesn't work, try a cleaner wax, or some polishing compound (gently!). Of course, a couple of 409/Dobie treatments will pretty much take off any wax, too, so re-wax as needed.
While washing Erfie I noticed that three of the four hitherto pristine wheels have been damaged by someone trying to pry off the approx 2" dia dustcaps in the centre of the wheels, perhaps with a screwdriver. This must have been done at the dealership during a recent 30,000 km service (it's never been anywhere else) but don't know why this would be necessary. The only thing on the service related to wheels is brake wear check; not even rotation. And if the wheel had to come off I don't see a reason to remove the dust cap.
Before I contact the dealership I wonder: a) Will this damage allow corrosion to spread (I assume it will)? b) can such damage could be repaired by grinding, polishing & relacquering? c) should I demand new wheels, or is this unreasonable?
My '97 Legacy auto has a separate front diff/tranny. I recently refilled the front diff with Mobil 1 gear oil and drained and refilled the tranny. The tip off would be if you have a dip stick on the right side of the area where the tranny and block mate. It's way in there. The presence of this and a tranny dipstick (other side of the car) confirm that the two assemblies are separate, though clearly the diffy could be cast as part of the tranny assembly.
I doubt it was kids. Most kids old enough and willing to carry car wheels know how to get them off and the car is rarely parked on the street anyway; normally a parking lot or the driveway. It is recent because the car was washed (by me) and serviced just a few days before the road trip and when I washed it a few days afterwards I noticed the damage.
I think clearcoat over jagged metal won't seal well. I think the metal needs to be smoothed out first. But I'm leery of them managing to make it worse. I'm tempted to fix it myself. After all, I have nothing else to do.
I'd call the Sube help line and ask what type of coating is on the wheels to be sure you don't use something that's incompatible. Perhaps the dealer even sells a clearcoat touch up for the wheels just like they sell paint touch up? Anyhow, I'd do it myself and then have the stuff on hand for the NEXT time the wheels take a whack. You'll want that area covered ASAP by the way. Moisture will begin working in the edges and delaminating the clear coat as it goes. Welcome to OCD hell.....
In fact, we should nominate an OCD behavior of the week here. My entry would be using dielectric grease on the boots AND copper based antisieze on the threads when I replaced my sparkplugs recently.
Hey! I need some quick feedback about price and benefits of the GT and OB...I'm looking at 2 very clean, one owner cars, but am TORN... I love the feel of the GT, but worry I won't have enough clearance to do much off-road driving... Is the clearance issue between the OB and the GT a concern? I have an option to buy a 97 GT with 67K, and an OB with 75K...they're asking about the same price...$12,000. My research shows these prices are too high for the year, and that the GT is worth more... I'm trying to buy this week. PLEASE HELP! Thanks. alyce
Define what you mean by "off road driving". For the most part neither is a true off road vehicle since there is no low-range and the overhangs are too big (approach/departure angles too small). If your talking dirt roads with some minor wheel ruts... well that extra inch just might be worth it for the deeper ruts and occassional tree root.
For me I like the extra inch or so just to get in/out of the car. My off road is limited but consists of a farm field or tractor lane along with a few fire roads to find that favorite fishing spot.
both are great cars and like you have found each has its little plus...
Doug: you win "OCD Act of the Week". You win eternal good luck, and most likely a spouse that rolls their eyes when they see the lengths you take for your car.
alyce: do you drive aggressively on smooth roads (GT), or smoothly on aggressive roads (Outback)?
Shop around, though, Outbacks especially are popular and finding a used one should not be hard. The '97s are sweet - you got 165hp on 87 octane for the first time.
I've taken my 00 OB on the dirt trails of the Pine Barrens 3 times, including this past Sat,as well as driving across an orchard. Except for a scraped front bumper (which was my overexuberance) I have never had a problem. I definitely feel the OB is more than qualified for basic off road trips, not going up the side of a mountain.
In Oregon, the market seems to have an inflation over KBB values, edmunds (WAY above), and NADA... is 11, 500 too much to pay for an OB with 70 or 78 K ??? I'm going in tonight to test drive again, so any info prior to 5 pm PST would be again much appreciated! You guys have really helped. THANKS! ps...my offroad would be some backcountry roads to get to trailheads, rivers, etc...I've thought all along the Outback was better suited, but the GT is a SWEET looking car...and fun to drive! I just felt a little low to the ground, and have had 2 Subies before...I don't recall feeling so low profile! Alyce
Alyce: I've been cross-shopping the same vehicles, so I know what you're going through. Don't be misled. The GT feels lower than it actually is. Ground clearance is 7.3" for the OB and 6.3" for the GT. Not that big a deal if you are driving on gravel roads, maybe bigger if you're on rugged, low-maintenance roads.
Try to use the Edmunds TMV figures as a bargaining chip. You can take the position that you *know* that these are fair numbers and you aren't paying more. The advertised prices for used cars are typically 1 to 2 K higher than what they'll often accept to make a sale, so don't give up too quickly. Good luck!
Thanks so much for the helpful info... The prices I'm quoting are from private parties, and after a little negotiating. There's just SUCH a discrepancy, still, between edmunds and the price they would accept...but most OB's are around the original price they were asking...12,500...can regions be inflated as much as 1 or 2 K over TMV? I'm not much of a bargainer...thanks for the courage! alyce
I have a 02 outback base and I have 2 dipsticks to check my at fluid and my front diff fluid. The yellow dipstick on the pass side is for diff. The yellow dipstick on the driver side is for at . I also tried that drl thing I have read a alot aboout . It said to look for a connector on the strut tower on the pass side and unlug it . Well I did the drl's stayed on and the at temp indicator lite went on. Ohh well.
cars are worth what people pay for them. some regions can be worse than others, there's people making a living shipping 4x4s from FL to CO. ya wanna know what something's really worth, post a full description with color, miles, and geography over at smart shopper forum, real-world trade in values discussion. tell terry mathias sent you :-).. he'll fill you right in. whenever i look at a '97 or an '00 for that matter, i do the following math: what can i get a new one for, equipped like i want, vs. this one here. then work out cents/mile and how many thousand $ per year vs. new. with those subies, i'll bet you're looking at less than 20cents/mile depreciation... you can't drive the new one for less, just do the math. buy it new or wait for a good deal to come around. good luck, and let us know! -Mathias East Lansing, MI
Alyce: prices definitely fluctuate by region. Subies are hot in the NW, Rockies, Great Lakes and NE. They languish on lots in Houston.
If you are "not much of a bargainer" and money is a problem, you can get a good price with patience. Do your research, find good cars, check them out (with a mechanic if the mileage is significant) and then make your offer based on TMV. If they refuse that offer (which many will, if Subies are hot in your area) just smile and say you have a limited budget. Leave a card with your phone number and move along to the next prospect.
You don't have to negotiate aggressively like a street Arab. If you make your offer politely enough times, someone will get antsy and go for it (or something like it). But you might not care to mess with it that long. Your call.
Comments
-mike
What tires do you run for winter?
My Forester has been on the beach, the Pine Barrens trails, and a few orchard hay ride trails. Those lil' Subies hold their own.
-juice
..Mike
..Mike
There is a slight hesitation when you floor the Bean on the highway, but when it kicks in it flies like a rocket. I had to escape from two 18 wheelers last night on the Whitestone expressway near Shea Stadium in Queens NYC. I crossed three lanes and left the trucks in the dust. As I grinned from ear to ear, it reminded me of why I went for the H6 - for that reserve power when you need it.... I could hear the truck drivers say, "that's an Outback?"....
-juice
Are they still clear? YES
No yellowing? NO
Does dirt get caught in the edges much? NO
Does it make cleaning the lights difficult (edges stick up, etc)? NO
And finally, do you have a lot of gravel/rocks on your roads up there? NO.
I live in Greater Vancouver and virtually all local roads are paved properly. During road resurfacing as is being done to my residential street right now, the local yahoos find it amusing to roar along at full throttle in their 4x4 pickups spraying rocks everywhere including over cars and any hapless pedestrians, leaving them choking in clouds of dust. (Probably the only "off road" use these vehicles ever see.) One of these fine upstanding young men almost rear-ended us the other day as he found it difficult to slow down in the loose material from the 60 kph he must have been doing to our more circumspect speed of about 25 kph.
During our occasional sub zero weather municipalities use salt or sand, sometimes both, and occasionally neither (Burnaby). But we find ourselves on gravel roads during our summer road trips or even some day trips to various local lakes or hiking spots. Some are active logging roads and you'll appreciate what a logging truck throws up as it goes by (almost as much as a speeding 4x4 pickup). If anything has ever hit these lights I can't see the evidence, but I do have a couple of chips out of the front edge of the hood. BTW, they sell strips for that too, but I'm not sure if there's one for the Legacy/OB.
I have no interest in X-Pel other than as a customer but I recommend the product based on my experience.
The URL is: 'www.sheepskinexpress.com' and we ordered the Custom version. There's a Tailored version that's more expensive for Ferraris, Vettes and other limited volume vehicles. Great product and these are genuine Merino sheepskin at a good value.
Goose - thanks for your feedback.
IdahoDoug
Cheers!
Paul
IdahoDoug
My Bean flies when it finally decides to, it just takes its sweet time getting there - I think my next step is to ride w/ a Subie mechanic (or three) & get their feedback.
Jillian
..Mike
Y'know, as close as we are, we really ought to catch a cup of coffee sometime... let me know!
Cheers!
Paul
Thanks.
My Miata's was scratched up badly, so I got some sill plates to cover and protect them.
Funny thing is they're not custom - I went to an auto parts store and measured, then bought ones intended for a full-size GM pickup, of all things!
-juice
You may want to consider door sill covers if it keeps happening. Or be a little more careful getting in and out. :-)
-juice
They are annoying and return on a regular basis. I blame my wife!
Ralph
PS Noticed my '01 Bean registered 30005 miles as I was driving home from a Mets game yesterday. Time to look up what needs changing. I assume air filter, fuel filter, pcv valve, tran. fluid. Plugs & wires are 60K -or longer, I think. Brake fluid? Coolant at 45K? Anyone know 30K maintenance for H6? Thanks.
Also swap the wiper blades if you haven't already. And do the rear diffy fluid, it takes the same oil as your tranny (75w90).
-juice
If you do it yourself, take a whiff of that gear oil - whew, that is some nasty stuff!
-juice
This should probably be in Maint & Repairs but while we're on the subject of gear oil, I'm planning to use Redline gear oil @ my 60k change.
Exactly which one goes where - 75w90 or 75w90ns in a Legacy L, 5 spd, no LSD. I recall that the manual tranny and front diffy share the oil.
Thanks,
Jim
That's strange on the newer ATs they have the front Diffy built into the AT, on my SVX I have a separate fluid spot for the front diffy witha dip stick to boot.
-mike
Anyhow, hit me offline and let's swap cell numbers. I don't get to Spokane often, but if either of us heads across the border we could hook up, eh?
IdahoDoug
Cheers!
Paul
Jim, you may want to look in your owner's manual..it clearly outlines what needs changing at 30k mi....I just did my 30k mi service myself...piece of cake...saved a bundle!
-r
-mike
I had the same problem with my OB - blamed the boss and her high-fashion shoes. I've used a product for years that does a great job on such problems: Dobie cleaning pads (by Scotch-Brite). It's a small sponge encased by a nylon mesh. Just abrasive enough to get off scuff marks, tar, and bugs, but not nasty enough to mar the paint. I regularly throw one into the bucket whenever I wash the cars (helps soften up the mesh a bit to soak it first), then use it as needed - typically in the front during bug season or along the sills and other lower areas that attract crud. For tough spots, I might squirt some 409 on first, let a few minutes pass, then go after it with the Dobie. If that doesn't work, try a cleaner wax, or some polishing compound (gently!). Of course, a couple of 409/Dobie treatments will pretty much take off any wax, too, so re-wax as needed.
Ken in Seattle
Before I contact the dealership I wonder:
a) Will this damage allow corrosion to spread (I assume it will)?
b) can such damage could be repaired by grinding, polishing & relacquering?
c) should I demand new wheels, or is this unreasonable?
But since you noticed that small detail, let me welcome you to our OCD club. ;-)
-juice
-mike
-juice
I think clearcoat over jagged metal won't seal well. I think the metal needs to be smoothed out first. But I'm leery of them managing to make it worse. I'm tempted to fix it myself. After all, I have nothing else to do.
Sorry juice...OCD club?
I'm like that, but often I try to convince myself to ignore them before I do something that makes it look worse.
-juice
In fact, we should nominate an OCD behavior of the week here. My entry would be using dielectric grease on the boots AND copper based antisieze on the threads when I replaced my sparkplugs recently.
IdahoDoug
I love the feel of the GT, but worry I won't have enough clearance to do much off-road driving...
Is the clearance issue between the OB and the GT a concern?
I have an option to buy a 97 GT with 67K, and an OB with 75K...they're asking about the same price...$12,000. My research shows these prices are too high for the year, and that the GT is worth more...
I'm trying to buy this week. PLEASE HELP! Thanks.
alyce
For me I like the extra inch or so just to get in/out of the car. My off road is limited but consists of a farm field or tractor lane along with a few fire roads to find that favorite fishing spot.
both are great cars and like you have found each has its little plus...
--jay
alyce: do you drive aggressively on smooth roads (GT), or smoothly on aggressive roads (Outback)?
Shop around, though, Outbacks especially are popular and finding a used one should not be hard. The '97s are sweet - you got 165hp on 87 octane for the first time.
-juice
Mark
is 11, 500 too much to pay for an OB with 70 or 78 K ???
I'm going in tonight to test drive again, so any info prior to 5 pm PST would be again much appreciated!
You guys have really helped. THANKS!
ps...my offroad would be some backcountry roads to get to trailheads, rivers, etc...I've thought all along the Outback was better suited, but the GT is a SWEET looking car...and fun to drive! I just felt a little low to the ground, and have had 2 Subies before...I don't recall feeling so low profile!
Alyce
Any how, good luck. Demand definitely varies by region and your climate would make me expect higher prices than say, Florida's.
-juice
Try to use the Edmunds TMV figures as a bargaining chip. You can take the position that you *know* that these are fair numbers and you aren't paying more. The advertised prices for used cars are typically 1 to 2 K higher than what they'll often accept to make a sale, so don't give up too quickly. Good luck!
Steve
The prices I'm quoting are from private parties, and after a little negotiating. There's just SUCH a discrepancy, still, between edmunds and the price they would accept...but most OB's are around the original price they were asking...12,500...can regions be inflated as much as 1 or 2 K over TMV?
I'm not much of a bargainer...thanks for the courage!
alyce
mike k
ya wanna know what something's really worth, post a full description with color, miles, and geography over at smart shopper forum, real-world trade in values discussion. tell terry mathias sent you :-).. he'll fill you right in.
whenever i look at a '97 or an '00 for that matter, i do the following math: what can i get a new one for, equipped like i want, vs. this one here. then work out cents/mile and how many thousand $ per year vs. new. with those subies, i'll bet you're looking at less than 20cents/mile depreciation... you can't drive the new one for less, just do the math. buy it new or wait for a good deal to come around.
good luck, and let us know!
-Mathias
East Lansing, MI
If you are "not much of a bargainer" and money is a problem, you can get a good price with patience. Do your research, find good cars, check them out (with a mechanic if the mileage is significant) and then make your offer based on TMV. If they refuse that offer (which many will, if Subies are hot in your area) just smile and say you have a limited budget. Leave a card with your phone number and move along to the next prospect.
You don't have to negotiate aggressively like a street Arab. If you make your offer politely enough times, someone will get antsy and go for it (or something like it). But you might not care to mess with it that long. Your call.
Steve