Remember, alyce is shopping for a used model, so ground clearance is actually a little less for both models. The OB still carries about an inch advantage in that regard.
Consider a no-haggle place like Car Max if you don't like negotiating.
Just wanted to thank everyone for their patience w/ my eternal questions. I finally took the plunge and bought a '97 Outback w/ 62k (for $12,000- not a super bargain, but not as bad as a lot of what was out there). The guy I bought it form is a Subaru freak, so he replaces the tranny fluid, etc with synthetic aviation grade stuff, so I'm hoping that's a good thing. My question now is: has anyone retrofitted their wagon w/ the now-standard car seat tether latching system. If so, how much did it cost,and how big a hassle was it? Thanks so much!
Before you get too hung up on the issue, try looking at the roofline just forward of the tailgate. Can you see some plastic covers about 3/4" in diameter? If so, try pulling one off and see whether there is a threaded hole underneath it. If so, the basic item for fitting a baby seat anchor is already fitted. If so, there should be a very low cost anchor kit available which is basically a bolt wit a washer fitted to it, the washer having a hook/hole to accept the seat tether. Normally there are three fitted to allow fitment of up to three child seats across the rear seat.
These anchor points have been standard for cars made in most of the world (apart from the USA) for between fifteen and twenty years. There is a fair chance that they are already fitted to your Subaru.
A dealer around here is advertising a few new 2003 Outback Wagons for $19,988. As far as I can figure, they're taking a loss on these vehicles.
Here's the deal: Outback 5spd with Dust deflector and Security system.
.... MSRP $23,865 Invoice $21,627
Even after subtracting 3% holdback ($716) and $300 dealer incentives, the cost is $20,611. so they're taking a $623 loss on these cars? I called them and they do have them in stock, and I would buy it at that price, but I really want an automatic. Of course, over the phone the salesman told me they would sell an automatic to me for around $1000 more than that advertised price but wouldn't guarantee the price over the phone. But I don't want to waste my time and drive over there (it's about an hour drive), so I'll wait until they advertise the automatics (if ever).
Why are they advertising it so low? (I know, to get you into the dealership and sell you a more expensive car) Is there some super secret dealer incentives that we don't know about?
Graham's correct, it's a kit from the dealer. Ironically, I ordered a kit for my '97 from my dealer over the phone about an hour before you posted. It's just over $10 from the dealer and this gives you 3 anchor points that screw into the 3 threaded holes in the trim panel over the rear hatch opening. It's got plastic plugs in it now. I called back to ask the part number for you, but the parts guy was gone already.
I added the anchors to my Forester. Piece of cake, just like Graham describes. You can order the parts from your dealer (it was $14 or $20 or so, I forget) and get 3 anchors and bolts that screw right in.
Beware of the ad cars, when you show up those cars are never actually available. It's a common technique called "Bait and Switch".
Also, the prices usually don't include freight and some other fees, like processing or advertising fees.
Call and ask what fees they add, if they add freight, and if the car in the ad is still available and can be held for you. If not, don't even go there.
Cool trick on my 01 LL Bean...I discovered it by accident (but, it may be explained in the owner's manual and I hadn't seen it).
Try this...on a rainy clowdy day...when you are driving with your headlights on: During these conditions, the read-out on both the radio and the auto a/c unit become hard to read since they dim with the headlights on. Solution: Press and hold the OFF button on both the A/C and Radio. The read-out un-dims back to pre-lights on brightness.
Did anyone else know about this or is this one of those software easter eggs?
but I have a Dim override button on the SVX. It turns off the guage lights, brightens the gear selector (P,D,N,1,2,3) brightens the clock, and radio and Temp controls.
Very nice feature so I can keep my headlights on w/o loosing vision of the instruments.
...its the law in Georgia. Plus, DRLs don't do anything for your rear end.
mike, that is a very nice feature...saves you needing to press each one individually.
jfl, you don't need to press them together...just press and hold each for over a second and the lights will change dim level (if your headlights are on).
BTW I did find it in the manual...it clearly states that this is a feature for when your lights are on.
The ad was for 5 Base Outback Wagons, and when I called them they said that they had all 5 in stock. I've bought the advertised price "bait and switch" car before, '99 Altima GXE for $13,500 (including Title, Tags and fees). In Dec 1998, one was advertised for $13,425. I called up the dealership to ask them if they still had it, they said yes, so I went and bought it. Easiest car buying experience I ever had.
So they sold me the car for $14,925 and subtracted the $1,500 cash rebate to arrive at the $13,425 figure, then added in $75 fees. So I figure that they lost $1,500 on this car. Do they do that just to bring customers in to the dealership? Maybe the dealership gets a bonus if they meet certain quotas? I guess it must work or they wouldn't do it.
I've got four Blizzaks with good tread depth that are sized 215/60/15. If possible, I'd like to mount them on my 97 Outback this winter. The Outback's tires are 205/70/15. Would this be possible or would this damage the AWD system or cause other problems?
A couple comments. First, as you know the Blizzaks don't have winter rubber much beyond the half worn out state, so you may not really be getting added traction. When the rubber is in this transition zone, careful examination with a bright light will show areas where the rubber clearly looks slightly lighter and different appearing. I just want you to be sure you've got winter tread rubber left if that's what you're going to the trouble for here.
Second, before putting any used tires on an awd Subaru, measure and write down their cirumference with a tape measure. If there's more than a quarter inch variance among them, Subaru recommends they not be used. What happens is the center diff clutch mechanism operates improperly.
IF they measure equal, and if there appears to be plenty of winter compound tread then you're good to go.
51k is impressive mileage for an OE tire. Thank the Tire Gods nicely, then go buy a new set. I'd even consider getting the same tires given their longevity.
215/60 tires have a much smaller side wall vs. 205/70, so one thing to consider is that you'll lose ground clearance. In reality you'll be down to about normal clearance, instead of the Outback's raised setup.
The other thing is you'll have shorter gearing, so it'll feel quicker off the line, but might use more gas, and will have higher revs on the highway.
But you can use them if you use all 4 and they have roughly the same wear.
Ohmygod that a lot of miles on those Wilderness tires! The outside edges of all 4 of mine were shot by 30K, although the middle of the tires looked like they could have made it another 5K or so without becoming scary. I rotated mine every 6K and checked the pressure 2x a month (32f)/31r)...I had the alignment done at 30K before I put 4 new tires on (Dunlop SP sport A2's) and everything seemed to be fine. Perhaps I corner harder than most people do, but 30K seemed pretty crummy in light of the treadwear index rating of 500 on those Firestones. Anyway, 51K is great for those; you must be doing something right!
Yep at least 35k highway...never have had an alignment. Also, first break job next week, Never have had a problem with this Subaru...it is serviced regularly by a great garage ( Brads Service, Chicopee MA ). Have had to do nothing other than oil changes 3-4k tire rotation 7.5k or so and 30k service.
As a matter of fact this is my second Subaru, also have a third, 2002 Forester, currently at 12k.
Thanks for the input, guys. I assume that I'd have higher revs since the wheels will be turning more to reach any speed level with the 215/60's than with the 205/70's? I think I read that the 215/60's were 9/10ths of an inch less in diameter than the 205/70's. Does this make sense? We used the 215/60 Blizzaks (got four of them) on our Maxima, which we sold this summer when we got our '03 Forester. They look like they've got at least one and maybe two years of winter tread left, but maybe I'll just let them sit in the garage. I put BF Goodrich Touring T/A's on the Outback 15,000 miles ago. They're not bad in the snow, definitely better than the OE Michelin tires. But Blizzaks are great in snow!
Finally found a salvage yard within my area with an Outback to snag those cargo area tie downs for my '97 Legacy wagon. Then, I decided the black plastic rear bumper cap would be nice since I had to take great pains unloading a couple shelves last week on my painted bumper. It came off with a surprisinly easy tug. Then noticed this one had a factory rubber cargo mat and snagged that too - all for 30 clams and 15 minutes of work.
Strange thing though. After pulling all the double sided foam tape off the bumper cap, I laid it on mine just to be sure I'd like it before putting fresh tape on it - and it doesn't fit!! The Outback bumper protrudes out about another 3/4 inch than mine does. Who'd have thought - they look identical to the eye?
Anyhow, if anyone needs one, speak now or forever hold your piece. Next week I'll trim 3/4 inch off it and install it if I get no interest.
only 30K? 50k good? my 2001 has 30k on the original Firestone Wilderness tires and they look like new. I'm sure they have worn some, but overall I'm impressed with them. My old S-15 Jimmy routinely got about 80~90k on OE Uniroyal tires before they needed replacing. Even then I replaced them with OK tread left.
Like Juice said, lots of smooth and straight highway miles. Good on tires but not as fun : )
This morning it seemed like hurican lilli had made its way to the northland. Love that sube! traction and control never an issue even with lots of water on the road.
--jay (wishing the ~2 inches of rain was snow....)
I was just curious . I really love driving my 02 outback . I was wondering what kinda of miles other outback owners put on there's. 02 obw purchased sept 01 14,500 miles
I usually drive about 22-23K miles a year, but my 01 Outback (purchased 1/01) has been seeing about 2500-3000 miles a MONTH lately. My partner lives 120 miles away in Sacramento (I'm in Reno) so we do a ton of commuting over I80. My oil changes are coming every 4-5 weeks, so the dealer is starting to know me on a first name basis!
We've got a hair under 18,000 on our May '01 Bean. Although we share two cars in the family, the Bean is taken out for the longer trips (I wonder why?). S
LLBean Born: 1/12/01 Delivered: 2/1/01 (20 months old) 30,800 trouble free miles (except free front rotors and free front brake pads). Time for its 30K service (trans. fluids are only listed as "inspect"??)
How does your OB do climbing up and down I80 on such a constant basis (doesn't it have some steep sections)? Do you have an auto or a MT? Is it comfortable? I'm thinking about an OB (or a WRX) and would have a similar daily commute to that. I'd love to hear what your experiences are.
I just replaced my tires about a month ago with Dunlop Sport A2's. So far so good. I think they are sticking nicely! On the other hand, my dealer recommedned the Dunlop SP5000.
For a cheap place to get them, go to TireRack.com. After you get them, go to Costco where for about $10/tire they will balance and mount them. I believe that also includes lifetime Tire rotation.
Hi Mtngal! I've got a manual transmission in my Outback and I find that it pulls amazingly well up and over Donner Pass in 5th gear...so long as I can keep my momentum! If someone pulls in front of me and forces me to slow down, it will take a while to get back up to speed without a downshift to 3rd or 4th. Otherwise, it will pull a constant 75mph in 5th gear all the way up and over.
If you load the car up with stuff on the roof or in the back, though, you will notice the lack of HP...3400 pounds (plus people, gear, etc) is a lot of weight for a 165 hp motor to pull around. Personally, I'd get the WRX if I were doing it again. I could deal with the tiny interior of a WRX wagon if I could have that turbo motor! The WRX is priced similar to the base Outback, and I think it would suit my driving style better than the Outback.
Also, the horrid clutch problems that my Outback has exhibited since it was new (and have still not been resolved) would keep me from recommending a 5sp Subie to anyone I know. The WRX's seem to be less prone to clutch shudder than the Legacy models.
So it seems I'm not the only one that makes up resons to drive there outback . I originally leased the car to get out a bad situation but I don't care how many miles I put on it . When the lease is up I'm going to buy it. I plan to have this car for at least 10 or more years .It has everything I want in a vehicle . I am planing on taking my 1st long trip in it . I'm going to New Orleans then St Pete Fla over thanksgiving. I have not had any of the problems I have read about on here . I switched to synthetic oil last change and the car is much quieter on start up . The real test will be when it gets cold and see if my cold engine knock comes back . Sorry for long post .
If you do not get snow, my Nitto NT460 tires are good in the dry and wet, and last forever. I have 19k miles and they're barely worn at all. They are not good in snow, though.
18K miles in a little less than 3 years... I just don't get a chance to drive as much as I'd like... if we travel, it's with the kids, which means the van or RV, but the next trip to Seattle, bay-bee... we are on the road!
Tires: I've had nothing but good luck with Toyo Spectrums... good ride/handling combination, great for dry & rain, but they aren't the best in snow, although the "Observe" studless are fine for that. Not sure about who carries them in your neck of the woods.
bkaiser's post about weight got me wondering. My '97 Legacy L wagon auto weighs 3150 without me aboard according to the local scale. Anyone else actually weighed their wagon for comparison? Ignore brochure weights, which are generic, btw.
According to the Tire Rack site, the A2 is rated for 50k miles. Tire Rack is good as a refence tool as well. You tell them what year and model car, they tell you what is recommended. They even break it down by categories like performance, year-round, etc.
Thanks for talking about your experience. It does sound like the WRX would be a better choice for me - my only "kid" is a golden retriever, so the back of the WRX wagon is big enough for him. With the seats flat there is more room than a Wrangler with the seat out! But it's nice to hear that like the Outback would be able to deal with my daily commute (the Grapevine) better than the 4 banger Taco we're currently driving (which requires 4th to deal with the steepest portions of the pass to maintain 70). Of course, that we have to make a decision, rather than having the capabilities make the decision for us.
Since there has been talk recently about tires here, do you have snow tires?
I've never mounted snow tires on my outback, although dedicated snow tires would be a good idea if I had the extra $$ laying around. Subies will plow though almost anything with regular all-season tread, but "real" snow tires feel much more stable in snow and ice at highway speeds. I may invest in a set for this winter if it turns out to be a wet winter (which I'm hoping for!)...the car can get really tail-happy in slick conditions and I'd like all the grip I can get on the highway.
Either car you choose, though, will be a HUGE change from the Jeep! I haven't driven a WRX, but I can tell you the Outback is a fantastic highway car (super quiet, stable, and comfortable).
A sign at my local Texaco gas station/car wash. Wonder what this means? It did say cars, not trucks. Could the all wheel drive system be damaged by some of these automated car washes?
Can't imagine why a car wash would ban 4 wheel drive cars unless it is the type of car wash that pulls your vehicle through. I suppose in that case you could theoretically damage the transmission on an automatic. But for that short distance? - of course it's up to the insurance company and the lawyers...
Comments
Consider a no-haggle place like Car Max if you don't like negotiating.
-juice
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,588-424500,00.html
Just wanted to thank everyone for their patience w/ my eternal questions. I finally took the plunge and bought a '97 Outback w/ 62k (for $12,000- not a super bargain, but not as bad as a lot of what was out there). The guy I bought it form is a Subaru freak, so he replaces the tranny fluid, etc with synthetic aviation grade stuff, so I'm hoping that's a good thing.
My question now is: has anyone retrofitted their wagon w/ the now-standard car seat tether latching system. If so, how much did it cost,and how big a hassle was it?
Thanks so much!
Before you get too hung up on the issue, try looking at the roofline just forward of the tailgate. Can you see some plastic covers about 3/4" in diameter? If so, try pulling one off and see whether there is a threaded hole underneath it. If so, the basic item for fitting a baby seat anchor is already fitted. If so, there should be a very low cost anchor kit available which is basically a bolt wit a washer fitted to it, the washer having a hook/hole to accept the seat tether. Normally there are three fitted to allow fitment of up to three child seats across the rear seat.
These anchor points have been standard for cars made in most of the world (apart from the USA) for between fifteen and twenty years. There is a fair chance that they are already fitted to your Subaru.
Might not be as expensive as you think!
Cheers
Graham
Here's the deal:
Outback 5spd with Dust deflector and Security system.
....
MSRP $23,865 Invoice $21,627
Even after subtracting 3% holdback ($716) and $300 dealer incentives, the cost is $20,611. so they're taking a $623 loss on these cars? I called them and they do have them in stock, and I would buy it at that price, but I really want an automatic. Of course, over the phone the salesman told me they would sell an automatic to me for around $1000 more than that advertised price but wouldn't guarantee the price over the phone. But I don't want to waste my time and drive over there (it's about an hour drive), so I'll wait until they advertise the automatics (if ever).
Why are they advertising it so low? (I know, to get you into the dealership and sell you a more expensive car) Is there some super secret dealer incentives that we don't know about?
IdahoDoug
Beware of the ad cars, when you show up those cars are never actually available. It's a common technique called "Bait and Switch".
Also, the prices usually don't include freight and some other fees, like processing or advertising fees.
Call and ask what fees they add, if they add freight, and if the car in the ad is still available and can be held for you. If not, don't even go there.
-juice
Try this...on a rainy clowdy day...when you are driving with your headlights on: During these conditions, the read-out on both the radio and the auto a/c unit become hard to read since they dim with the headlights on. Solution: Press and hold the OFF button on both the A/C and Radio. The read-out un-dims back to pre-lights on brightness.
Did anyone else know about this or is this one of those software easter eggs?
-r
Very nice feature so I can keep my headlights on w/o loosing vision of the instruments.
-mike
But why put your headlights on on a rainy cloudy day? That's what DRLs are for. Unless you want your tail lights on too.
This would be useful anytime you wanted taillights on during the day. Hope it works on other models.
mike, that is a very nice feature...saves you needing to press each one individually.
jfl, you don't need to press them together...just press and hold each for over a second and the lights will change dim level (if your headlights are on).
BTW I did find it in the manual...it clearly states that this is a feature for when your lights are on.
-r
In Dec 1998, one was advertised for $13,425. I called up the dealership to ask them if they still had it, they said yes, so I went and bought it. Easiest car buying experience I ever had.
MSRP $18,510
Invoice $17,050
3% Holdback - 550.
Dealer cost $16,500
So they sold me the car for $14,925 and subtracted the $1,500 cash rebate to arrive at the $13,425 figure, then added in $75 fees. So I figure that they lost $1,500 on this car. Do they do that just to bring customers in to the dealership? Maybe the dealership gets a bonus if they meet certain quotas? I guess it must work or they wouldn't do it.
-juice
Second, before putting any used tires on an awd Subaru, measure and write down their cirumference with a tape measure. If there's more than a quarter inch variance among them, Subaru recommends they not be used. What happens is the center diff clutch mechanism operates improperly.
IF they measure equal, and if there appears to be plenty of winter compound tread then you're good to go.
IdahoDoug
Is this about the mileage I should get new tires?
Jerry
215/60 tires have a much smaller side wall vs. 205/70, so one thing to consider is that you'll lose ground clearance. In reality you'll be down to about normal clearance, instead of the Outback's raised setup.
The other thing is you'll have shorter gearing, so it'll feel quicker off the line, but might use more gas, and will have higher revs on the highway.
But you can use them if you use all 4 and they have roughly the same wear.
-juice
B
-juice
As a matter of fact this is my second Subaru, also have a third, 2002 Forester, currently at 12k.
No problems with any of them.
Strange thing though. After pulling all the double sided foam tape off the bumper cap, I laid it on mine just to be sure I'd like it before putting fresh tape on it - and it doesn't fit!! The Outback bumper protrudes out about another 3/4 inch than mine does. Who'd have thought - they look identical to the eye?
Anyhow, if anyone needs one, speak now or forever hold your piece. Next week I'll trim 3/4 inch off it and install it if I get no interest.
IdahoDoug
Like Juice said, lots of smooth and straight highway miles. Good on tires but not as fun : )
This morning it seemed like hurican lilli had made its way to the northland. Love that sube! traction and control never an issue even with lots of water on the road.
--jay (wishing the ~2 inches of rain was snow....)
02 obw
purchased sept 01 14,500 miles
thanks mike
--jay
S
Jim
Born: 1/12/01
Delivered: 2/1/01
(20 months old)
30,800 trouble free miles (except free front rotors and free front brake pads).
Time for its 30K service (trans. fluids are only listed as "inspect"??)
Ralph
Mark
For a cheap place to get them, go to TireRack.com. After you get them, go to Costco where for about $10/tire they will balance and mount them. I believe that also includes lifetime Tire rotation.
Mark
-Brian
If you load the car up with stuff on the roof or in the back, though, you will notice the lack of HP...3400 pounds (plus people, gear, etc) is a lot of weight for a 165 hp motor to pull around. Personally, I'd get the WRX if I were doing it again. I could deal with the tiny interior of a WRX wagon if I could have that turbo motor! The WRX is priced similar to the base Outback, and I think it would suit my driving style better than the Outback.
Also, the horrid clutch problems that my Outback has exhibited since it was new (and have still not been resolved) would keep me from recommending a 5sp Subie to anyone I know. The WRX's seem to be less prone to clutch shudder than the Legacy models.
Brian
Sorry for long post .
Mike k
About 4k miles on our Legacy purchased in May.
If you do not get snow, my Nitto NT460 tires are good in the dry and wet, and last forever. I have 19k miles and they're barely worn at all. They are not good in snow, though.
-juice
Tires: I've had nothing but good luck with Toyo Spectrums... good ride/handling combination, great for dry & rain, but they aren't the best in snow, although the "Observe" studless are fine for that. Not sure about who carries them in your neck of the woods.
Cheers!
Paul
IdahoDoug
According to the Tire Rack site, the A2 is rated for 50k miles.
Tire Rack is good as a refence tool as well. You tell them what year and model car, they tell you what is recommended. They even break it down by categories like performance, year-round, etc.
Mark
Since there has been talk recently about tires here, do you have snow tires?
Either car you choose, though, will be a HUGE change from the Jeep! I haven't driven a WRX, but I can tell you the Outback is a fantastic highway car (super quiet, stable, and comfortable).
B
Steve
-mike