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Comments
Hard starting: 1)Load test the battery. I had it done on my test drive - failed - dealer replaced before purchase. 2)Oil viscosity matters. 5W30 is thinner by definintion than 10W30 at colder temps. Thicker oil = starter has to work harder to turn engine over.
Cleaning/waxing: anybody else use "ClayMagic" or equivalent? I've used it on Ford paint before with good result, followed up with a good coat of pure carnauba. Maybe doesn't last as long as other stuff, but works.
Sound system upgrades: Local car stereo guru I know & trust said if you're on a budget (aren't we all!), upgrading speakers is the one best, most economical thing you can do to improve the sound of any factory system, bar none. Has the added advantage of making the new deck sound even better when you finally get around to it!
Tires: I apologize for beating the subject to death, but I'm still mulling 70/15 vs. 60/16 tire/wheel upgrade. How much difference is there in ride/handling between the two?
Cheers!
Paul
xray10: glad you have an open mind and are willing to try new things.
The AWD system is sealed and requires no extra maintenance. Despite all the comprehensive standard equipment (ABS, AWD, rear LSD with AWP), Outbacks score well in reliability.
The maintenance interval is a longish 7.5k miles per oil change. The 30k service has some basic maintenance, and the 60k is the first big one. You can certainly shorten those intervals if you put yours through tougher conditions than most, but I think you'll find maintenance costs are very reasonable.
Tint - the stock tint is very light, hardly noticeable. I added tint film to my Forester for $170, but metallic films can cost more.
Phill: I recommend you look under Owners Clubs, then Subaru Crew. There is a topic dedicated to waxing and cleaning.
Anibal: LOL! Loved the hands felt great comment on the Lexol. I'll have to get some for the other cars in our fleet (my Forester has cloth).
Maybe the wife will replace her hand cream! No, wait, it's expensive so forget that!
-juice
I use AutoFOM and swear by it. It is a sealant which has been taken off the market. Rumors are that it had problems with some paint. I horded cans at Odd-Lot for $1.99 each. I apply AutoFOM twice a year and top it off with Meguiar's Gold Class (which isn't that durable) but it adds an extra layer of protection. Some people recommend Zaino, but I think it is way too much work and way too expensive. I would actually like to speak to someone who has used both products for a comparison. AutoFOM doesn't get great reviews, but I swear this stuff is durable and kept my Frost White 91 Accord Frost White.
All Subaru metallic colors are clear-coated. All solid colors are pigment/clear-coated (some color pigment is mixed into the clear coat). This is according to their service manual. So for the current Legacy, I guess only Birch White is pigment clear-coated. I had a 2000 Rio Red. I would have taken White but the current Birch White is not a sporty white like the old white, it's more of a luxury car white which I don't care for.
I touched this subject before and I am doing it again. I am very dissapointed with the gas mileage and am beginning to think that there is something wrong. The last two tanks of gas I have gotten 18 mpg. Even in the city the automatic says 22. Halg my driving is city half is highway. Juice you mentioned it gets better.....But 18???? What are you guys with the 01 OB's getting for gas mileage? I really would like feedback on this. Thanks
My mileage started about about 22mpg and I currently average about 25mpg or so in mixed driving. But I also have a 5 speed, plus my Forester is several hundred pounds lighter than the new Outbacks.
If you get a 3mpg improvement, that puts you in the low 20's. Not bad, considering Edmunds' long-term Tribute is getting 14mpg and their XTerra is averaging 16mpg.
Meanwhile, make sure the tire pressure is at least to OE specs, higher even (32 psi works for me). If it's bitter cold, you may even want to use a thinner oil for now. Mileage will be better at 15k miles than it is at 3k miles.
-juice
FWIW, I have a 2000 OB ltd with 6,000 miles. Computed MPG over the last 6 fill-ups covering 1,200+ miles was only 18.2. I estimate 60-70% was city driving.
Ron
-juice
It seems that I am doing average then. Ok! On the trip from tahoe to Bay Area I averaged 26. That was so exciting. But I realize that it is all down hill----ha ha. I can't imagine what those SUV's are getting. Man!!! Juice, liked the comment of using lexol as wife's hand cream. Only one thing--it does not smell all that great! So it may not be appealing to her. Besides, she is only softening her hands to put them on you....so let her use the expensive stuff.....ha ha ha.
-juice
I had them run my vin and it did not list any recalls. I was worried because some OB's are recalled for a bad fuel hose or something to that extent. I had read about it and called when doing my alarm. Apparently my vin did not return any recalls. But thanks for the tip. Always appreciated!
Here in South East Wisconsin, we're considered part of the Chicago area. So, along with Chicago, the Milwaukee area must use reformulated gas. But, since it's winter also, we get a different blend that is supposed to burn cleaner. The end result is a lower MPG.
My '00 OB has gotten 18 MPG once back in December during a extremely cold week. My best was in September - I got 28 MPG on a long trip to MI. Currently, I get about 20-21 MPG on mixed, but mostly city, driving. I keep an Excel file at home with all my mileage - I try to post it later today.
So, I think it could be the fuel. I'm not a gas tech - so I may not be exactly correct on the terminology here.
-Brian
Phill
1. The rear hatch takes a very hard slam to close it completely (per the dashboard light). Is this normal and/or is there a way to adjust the striker plate on the hatch?
2. The automatic climate control seems to have 65 degrees at the lower limit, where it vents in cold air from the outside. At 66, the air appears heated (like hot!). Maybe my interior was well below 65 at the time and the heater kicks in to speed the temperature rise? Is there any middle ground between the COLD 65 and the hot 66?
3. Finally, if you reset the temperature from say 70 down to 66, the A/C compressor kicks in, although you can manually switch it off. Any way to avoid this multiple button switching?
Thanks,
Keith51
Just returned from a week's ski trip to Bend, Oregon (Mt Bachelor). There sure has been a lot of activity on this site in the last 10 days!
Here are some notes from the trip that come up here regularly (I have a 2000 Ltd. wagon with 5-speed, and about 9K miles on the clock).
Gas mileage: for 1000 miles (350 interstate at 65-75 mph, 350 highway, including mountain passes, and 300 local, including snowy conditions but light traffic) - just under 26 mpg. That included the OEM ski carrier (from Darlene) and five sets of skis mounted almost all the time, plus a packed car (4 occupants). I consider myself a fairly light-footed driver.
Power: fine, including the passes (only 4K high in Oregon), where 4th gear, plus or minus one, was used. In Bend, at 7K altitude, performance was adequate, not awe-inspiring.
Reliability: bullet-proof.
Snow: my first real snow experience in the O/B. Had a hellacious storm one evening (coming down at 2-3" per hour), and went out to dinner anyway (unplowed streets/highways). Had a blast - very competent and confidence inspiring. Due to light (non-existent) traffic had opportunity to push the vehicle near its limits - I was impressed. Clearly, winter tires would make it even better (I just have the OEM Firestones). The next day, Mt Bachelor's HUGE, flat parking lot had about 6" of packed snow on it, so...after skiing was over, took it out for a "spin", stops, etc., to really push it - haven't had that kind of fun for a long time (Seattle traffic, y'know).
Comfort (gripe): I find the driver's seat somewhat uncomfortable after about 100 miles or so (even using cruise control to allow a bit of wiggling around). I'm not particularly big - 6' and 175 lbs - but I get serious fanny fatigue that playing with the seat adjustments doesn't seem to resolve. I've learned to ALWAYS take my wallet out of my back right pocket to avoid serious discomfort. In fairness, my 97 Maxima (also with leather seats) has a similar problem, but I haven't driven it on any long trips for a while to compare. My old 89 Caravan, with cloth seats, is very comfortable (I drove it the day after our return) - I think I could put a few golf balls in each rear pocket and hardly notice them. Anyone noticed any comfort difference between the O/B cloth and leather seats? Suggestions? (yeah, I know, gain some weight/padding - my wife says I'm "buttless" after I lost 25 pounds a couple of years ago)
Donnelly mirror: really handy in temps that regularly crossed the freezing line; and I used the compass readout to help me navigate around the Bend area at night (but this might be a carry-over from my old USAF pilot days).
Other items:
Cold weather starts: IMHO, assuming the car is in basically good condition, nothing matters more than battery power and oil viscosity (I use the recommended 5W30 all year around up here). Perhaps fuel line freeze-up can occur in extreme conditions. I've lived in Vermont, Chicago, and Norway.
Window tinting: I had the "back five" done almost immediately, having a metallic film installed professionally. I really like it, and it comes with a lifetime warranty. I'd recommend having it done rather professionally than a DItY.
Finish care: I completely agree with the leather treatment, whatever one uses - and more often the further south you live and related to how hard you treat the vehicle. For the exterior, I'd say nothing helps more than frequent washings, including hosing out the wheel wells and underbody. Up here, I can get away with once-a-year waxing with any high-quality polymer/wax. I'm too time-limited to devote much more of my schedule to waxing, and wouldn't trust anyone else to do it correctly (fussy, fussy).
Bottom line: I'm very satisfied with the O/B, and have had no problems so far (the ECM was replaced during a recall). Now if I could just retrofit that Caravan seat into the O/B's driver's spot!
I've enjoyed the posts - cheers to all!
Ken M., Seattle
Mark
1. The rear hatch takes a very hard slam to close it completely (per the dashboard light). Is this normal and/or is there a way to adjust the striker plate on the hatch?
2. The automatic climate control seems to have 65 degrees at the lower limit, where it vents in cold air from the outside. At 66, the air appears heated (like hot!). Maybe my interior was well below 65 at the time and the heater kicks in to speed the temperature rise? Is there any middle ground between the COLD 65 and the hot 66?
3. Finally, if you reset the temperature from say 70 down to 66, the A/C compressor kicks in, although you can manually switch it off. Any way to avoid this multiple button switching?
Thanks,
Keith51
Keith - I also complained about having to slam the rear hatch to get it to close. I believe it was juice who suggested to me that you slowly lower it about halfway first then give it a good slam rather than start the slam from the full open position. That works pretty good for me (my wife still gets frustrated however). I did bring it up to the dealer and they just brushed it off as "there is nothing wrong with it" (surprise, surprise).
ken - I too think the driver's seat starts getting a little uncomfortable after about 1 - 1 1/2 hours. Sounds like you had blast in the snow though.
If either one of you come up with a magical solution to either of these problems, please be sure to share.
Thanks
Phill
I don't have to slam my hatch for it to close. Maybe am just lucky. But, keep in mind that it is not the 5th door and will never sound/feel like doors. I think all hatchbacks need a little effort to close. Especially with those miniature shock absorbers.
I did notice one thing as I sat in passenger's seat for first time. My foot hit an air tube. There is not much room in passenger side, especially for feet. I am size 8. And most people say I have small foot. In any case, I have to look into it. I may want to re-route the tube before someone accidentally disconnects it. I presume it is an air tube for the vaccum system that changes your heat/air from vent to other positions etc! Also, I really wish the front seats could slide back a little more. I can't see how a 6 ft tall person would fit.
I also learned not to let wife drive at night anymore! Nearly got us killed! KmClean would be interested in your USAF pilot days......
Ken: I suppose re-gaining that weight is out of the question? ;-)
-juice
Overall, my average is 22. When I do highway travel, my mileage is between 22 and 28. City travel or mixed: between 17 and 22. Like I mentioned earlier, the low numbers that I've gotten came in December when it was extremely cold (single digit temps for highs) AND there was a lot of snow falling or already on the ground. (We had over 40 inches of snow just in December - too bad it's all melted now!) I'm sure our OB spent quite some time idling as I scraped/brushed the snow off - which is bad since you burn/waste more fuel that way.
I'm not at all concerned about the mileage I'm getting. In fact, I think it's fine. As far as types of gas - I regularly use Amoco, Shell, & Mobil (in descending use). All gas stations in my area use an ethanol blend for 87 octane. Anibal - hope this helps!
-Brian
Thanks for the replies on the gas. I am not concerned because of cost. I just thought that there might be something wrong with my new Subie. But, apparently not. I have always used premium gas and will continue to do so. I swear by it. Occasionally I would get a tank full of Sunoco 94 octane. That was fun! I live in CA so the car doesn't sit idling to warm up. However I do a lot of city driving as my job is 5 mins away. Not much snow here for the Subie. But it sure handles well in the rain! One day might go back to East Coast and if I do, I don't have to sell my car! I can't wait to get the accessories and the Klasse to make it shine! Anyone have a good tire cleaning product??? Can I get something that cleans the wheels and the tires??? Thanks.
I have no problems closing the Hatchback on my LL Bean.
Regarding the climate control, yes my AC comes on if I lower the temp as you indicated. As a result I've come to using the climate control in MANUAL mode, chosing to make adjustments (yes button switching) as I please. I guess that when you raise the temp from 65 to 66, the heat kicks in to get the temp to 66, but, at 66, I would think the automatic mode would adjust the temp of the air coming out of the ducts?
On another subject, I can't believe how the prices have dropped over the last 7 weeks! From deals at 500-700 over invoice, they have now dropped to 300 under invoice! Is it the recession thing, or are people just not buying LL Beans (VDCs)?
I would not use the same product to clean the wheels and tires. Actually, just wash them with a mild detergent with the rest of the car, then wax the wheels (at least do this when you rotate them). That'll keep 'em clean, and brake dust doesn't accumulate nearly as much.
Joe: I think Soob owners are used to paying invoice for most models. The H6s are high-margin models, so there is more room for haggling. The holdback alone is probably $600 or more.
-juice
I haven't really noticed a problem closing the cargo hatch. The only time the light comes on is when the rear cargo mat slides back and gets pinched when the door closes.
Are 'That's just the way it is.' and 'That's just the way these cars work in order to bring you all the features.' statements that Subaru trains all it's service technicians?
Disclaimer: I apologize for any typos...but it is better than using the spell checker on this site.
Have there been any recalls on the new motor? Anyone having any problems with it. I know Subaru has a great reputation for reliability, but the engineer in me keeps screaming "Wait until the second year of production so any bugs can be worked out!" I like the fact that it uses a timing chain rather than belts too. Didn't Subaru use an H6 in the SVX? Does this engine use the same block/cylinder head design as the previous motor?
Thanks! Shannon
Anibalb: Well, here goes any pretense about being a youngster. Got into the AF flying business after the 1969 draft lottery invited me to join the war games. After a delightful year of pilot training in Selma, Alabama (quite a shock for a life-long Philly boy), did the upgrade training and survival school bit, headed to SEA (Thailand) for just under a year (F-5s), then somehow stumbled into a 24-year-old's (bachelor) dream assignment - a VC-131 in Oslo, Norway (basically a 2-engine turboprop that could carry about 40 folks if configured that way - ours was a VIP bird with a big "office" up front). My job (if you can believe this) was to fly the US ambassador and our 2-star around Europe for meetings, etc. They'd meet, I'd play (hey, I was only a lieutenant); I think I had the better deal. Flying (and the navigational skills that I developed - especially in overseas air "control") has some interesting carryovers to driving. It was fun, but then I grew up and moved on to more adult pursuits.
Hatch: I've had no problems; I generally close it to within a foot of latched, then give it a firm, but not hard, push closed.
Water in the taillights: After I finally washed about 5 pounds of Oregon mud off my O/B yesterday, I noted some moisture on the inside of the right taillight (the part on the hatch). This was the first time the car sat buried in (melting) snow for days at a time, although I was wondering if my thorough wash/rinse might have gotten some water in through the key hole located nearby. Careful examination reveal no damage, cracks, loose fittings or any other ready explanation for the water. Left side is fine. Anyone else find this on their wagons?
Premium gas: is definitely a waste in engines not designed to utilize the higher octane. It's also one of the biggest profit items the oil companies enjoy. Take a look at wholesale gasoline prices in the Wall Street Journal for the difference between regular and premium, and you'll see what I mean.
Cheers!
Ken M. (and it's STILL sunny in Seattle - geez!)
No recalls yet, nor am I aware of any common issues. Seems to be a solid design.
Ken: the sad thing is that the gas stations near me charge 24 cents more per gallon of premium. In some places the difference is less than half that.
-juice
BTW enjoyed your read on your tour of duty.
Guy
Guy & juice - Checked today's WSJ for gasoline wholesale prices (to dealers in NY area): regular is $0.8013 per gallon, and premium is $0.8463 (oxygenated versions are about 3 cents more each). So go figure the margins on selling premium vs. regular gas (juice - it's about 25 cents more out here, too, for premium).
My 97 Maxima recommends premium fuel "for best performance." I bought the car in San Antonio, and decided to try the mid-grade to save about 10 cents a gallon. Interestingly, I thought I could perceive a decrease in performance, so I did a couple of tests. I had a very consistent commute of 25 miles (mostly traffic-free expressway, if you can imagine that) each way, so I ran several tanks of mid- vs. premium in a row (to make certain the fuel was "pure"). The premium not only cut a full half-second off my 0-60 time, but produced 10% better mileage, more than making up for the dime a gallon difference (about $1.35 vs. $1.25 back then). So I've stuck with premium since then. But, of course, that engine is designed for premium fuel - I doubt I'd see any difference in the H4.
Guy - Actually, I did return to the AF in the medical research field - they even sent me back to get my doctorate here at the UW - which is why we returned to Seattle after I "retired" in 1998. Had a little over 25 years active duty, plus a few years reserve time. Worked out well, all-in-all. Who would'a believed? Not me (in '69).
Juice - might be back your way in the spring - just starting a new job next Monday with a medical foundation based in Bethesda. Retirement never seems to last very long!
Cheers,
Ken M.
3 and a half cents per gallon difference? Wow! I bet advertising hype for premium makes half the pump price difference.
Bet the Max had a knock sensor to retard timing for lower octane. I think the new H6 does, too.
Ken M.: let me know when you're coming to town. A local chapter of the i Club has events every couple of weeks, and SCOA's founder also does events in this area. It's a cool place for a Soob enthusiast.
-juice
The Max computer does retard timing for lower octane fuels - you could even run it on 87 octane if need be, although I don't know why anyone would do that with such a sweet engine (I bought the car mainly because of that 24V, 3.0L beauty - plus I could get it with a 5-speed).
I'll let you know when I head your way - I used to live back there when I was stationed in Bethesda at Navy Medical during the previous Bush administration - a few miles up 270 in Potomac.
Cheers,
Ken M.
We also bought a V6/5 speed combo - a 626 ES. I like it except for one thing - it's a bit nose heavy and understeers too much.
OK, that's two things.
-juice
That is the closest thing to an initial quality defect that we've found so far.
Auto Climate Control (ACC): The manual states that when the ACC is in full Auto mode, it will turn on the A/C compressor to cool the interior down if the interior sensor detects that it is warmer than the temp setting. You can override just the A/C portion of the ACC by tapping the A/C button. At that point all other functionality will be automatic, but the A/C compressor will not come on. This manual override can be done on as many controls as you like. Or you can start with it off (fully manual) and turn on only the features you want. To return to full auto mode, tap the Auto button. Tap it again, and it will ensure that when the A/C comes on, it is in ECON mode. It is actually a fairly sophisticated system, unfortunately, most of us humans have to change a couple of minor old habits to peacefully co-exist with it. Once the basic concept of full Auto vs. mostly auto vs. mostly manual vs. fully manual is understood, it is much easier to control. It's mostly in the Owners Manual. ;-)
FWIW,
Theo
Individual fit varies a lot, so I suggest a longish test drive. I don't mean 5 minutes, more like 30 or so. You may even ask to drive a used 2000 model, whose seats are broken in (and since the extra the miles won't bother the dealer).
-juice
I've had my LL Bean H6 for about 2 months (2700 miles) and, so far, engine has been fine (smooth, quiet, powerful). Hope the honeymoon lasts!
Anyone know why the ratings would be different between the different vehicles? Is it more related to chassis strength? transmission? Would we be stressing the LL Bean too much if we fudged and towed something over the limit? Any knowledgeable help or recommendations would be appreciated.
Based on what you've described, I would opt for the Highlander (with the 3500# tow package), because it's the only one with a full-size spare tire—which is definitely something you want if you're going to tow. The Escape's reliability is unproven and it has a donut spare (a full-size spare is not available). And, as much as I like the Subaru H-6, the Highlander is clearly the better choice for towing.
The tow ratings are based on the chassis, brakes, body structure, and government safety criteria.
Bob
Craig
First few weeks of ownership I swore repeatedly at the climate control and then discovered that it realy does know what it is doing perfectly well. I jut leve it set at 22.5 C (about 72 F )and let it get on with life. It works impeccably and if I want to cool a bit, just lower it a half degree. Admittedly it is a bit warmer here than you are experiencing. The air con cycle also demists the car beautifully.
Rear hatch does need firm closure, not slamming. Mats can foul it but if you stick a couple of dots of velcro under them they stay fixed on the carpet.
Cheers
Graham
I like the velcro tip, Graham.
-juice
One other small gripe (related to the above). I am 6 foot tall and my head almost touches the roof even when I have the seat at it's lowest position (this has a sunroof). Amusingly, this is worse first thing in the morning on my way to work and fine in the evening on my way home. In most people, the body shortens during the day and lengthens a bit overnight. This would actually be made worse by making the seat sit more upright as I suggested above so I guess either the whole seat could go lower, or the headroom could be increased.
In general, I have found that I have adjusted to the seat position quite well and I get less discomfort than I used to.
Mileage: I have been getting between 18mpg (all short commutes in cold weather) to a whopping 28mpg on a 70mph trip.
Seat aside, I am so glad I traded in the SUV for the Soob- driving is much more fun now. If the weather would only warm up so I can open the sun roof!
Bob
This temblor got MY undivided attention. It measured 6.2-6.4 initially. Centered down between Tacoma and Olympia - about 50-60 miles southwest of Seattle. Lasted 30 seconds - big time shaking! No serious damage so far reported. Hope the aftershocks are mild.
Ken M., Seattle
I just got got up with the board...I had sent a few posts from Australia about buying an OB when we moved to San Diego...well we're here and have had a '01 Ltd in Wintergreen for a couple of weeks. Had to special order to get a 5spd and waiting nearly 2 months, but it is worth it!
I love the car and so does my wife. No snow yet, but it has been raining a lot and does great in that. Gas mileage only about 18/19 but we've covered that and I've only filled it up once so far (done just over 800 miles).
Anyway, love reading everyone's experiences and getting all the good advice. I'm going to try Lexol and Klasse myself if it ever stops raining (so much for sunny San Diego!)
Thanks
Caleb
Stephen in Seattle
PS: Should start seeing the "I Survived The Great Quake of 2001" t-shirts soon! :-)
Caleb: I love SD. Beautiful. Don't hold your breath waiting for snow though. For that you'll have to hit the mountains.
-juice