Subaru Legacy/Outback

wanabe33

After months of testing vehicles I have decided to go with an Outback. I am looking for an auto with no other options except maybe a cd player. 2 questions. is there options that I should be considering and 2 what should I be paying. I was thinking no more than 200 over invoice. (fyi, I live in Northern VA). Thanks

originalbitman

Consider installing an aftermarket CD player yourself. I put a Blaupunkt Nevada in mine for under $200 and it is great. The install is fairly easy once you get up the nerve to pull apart your dash. http://www.bitman.com/soobdash

I did get the speaker uprgade with subwoofer. The door panels are a little more tricky to pull off but you could do it yourself. The tweeter kit is very easy to install as the doors are prewired.

Also, the roof crossbars are nice as is the rubber rear cargo mat and the cargo net.

bit

dniehus

Boy, are you in luck! For best prices in the Washington, DC area, there really is only one choice -- Fitzgerald in Rockville, MD. You can buy any Outback for abour $300 UNDER invoice. Check out their website: www.fitzmall.com then click on Subaru. Or, use the "car find" button; that way you can specifically search for the Subaru model you're interested in. Several Town Hall members have purchased through that dealer and spoke very highly of the experience. Since, you're in the area you may be interested in their "red tag" price which includes free loaner cars, etc. Good luck.

cptplt

I've had 195/65/15s on my 98 GT for 3 seasons now. They are definitely not as good on ice/snow as the 185/70/14 Blizzak WS15s on my old 92 LS. Next season whill probably replace them with Blizzaks again though may go for the MZ rather than WS as the WSs definitely are worse on dry roads.

ateixeira

wanabe: go to Fitz (right next to White Flint on 355), and look for the AWP (all weather package). It comes with heated seats, mirrors, and windshield. The seats alone are worth the price.

-juice

theob

Anyone hooked up a electric brakes on an OB? I have a Coleman w/ electric brakes. I don't plan on towing it a lot with the '01 OB, but would like to occasionally.

Is there any wiring in place for brakes? Suggestions on how to run it if there isn't?

Thanks,
Theo

ateixeira

Theo: I have the OE hitch on my Forester, and I can tell you it's a 4 connector harness. It does have one for the brake lights, and I've tested it successfully.

Given the brake light works, I imagine the brakes could work on the same wire. Depends on the harness the trailer comes with, I guess.

-juice

rsholland

Funny this should come up. I was recently at a trailer dealer with the possible thought of getting a hitch put on our new Forester. During the conversation I asked about electric trailer brakes, and the salesman said they work off the brake switch, not brake light, and that it would probably be a 6 connector harness, not 4.

Also, you would get a switch mounted under the dash that would allow you to adjust the amount of braking needed. For example, if the trailer is loaded, you would want more braking than if it wasn't.

The estimate for the hitch (class II), labor and wiring was around $375.00. If I upgrade my trailer (add brakes) I looking at another $500 -$600. I'm not sure if I want to spend that much money.

Bob

ateixeira

Hutch got a slightly lighter duty trailer than yours. That's what I would do, and then try to stay at or near the 1k lb limit.

Of course I can just borrow his! Nice price - zero, isn't it?

-juice

rsholland

Just trying to figure a way to eliminate the need for keeping the Explorer—so that I can get a WRX.

Bob

ateixeira

AAAAHHH!

I see. Sweet. What's a couple hunderd? You'll save that on gas money...

;-)

-juice

nematode

I drove our OB Ltd. (2k auto) an entire week (1 tank or about 300-325miles) at maximum speed of 60mph for our mostly highway commute. It nearly killed me but the cruise control saved me. Resulted in a combined (90% highway) of 26.1mpg.
Next I tried a maximum speed of 65mph for the entire week for the same drives. Resulted in 25.2mpg.
Next I tried a max of 70mph. MPG dropped to 23.5mpg.
Also tried 75mph. Resulted in 21.2mpg.
I normally drive 65-75mph or move with traffic. Probably average 70mph.

I used to get 24.5mpg at 70mph but it started dropping around 17k miles. Its been stable at 23.2mpg since about 20k miles. Currently, I'm seeing a 5mpg difference between 60 -vs- 75. I was not able to try 55mph as it is really not safe to drive below the speed limit on I270 and I44. I got 29mpg two times on long trips driving at just below 70mph (67) but recently I have not been able to get anywhere near that number.

tmalka

armac13 - at first I didn't know what you were talking about when you said that you had turned on the windshield wiper defroster instead of the rear defroster. We went to the dealer yesterday to pick up a 00 legacy for my husband ( that makes 2 this month), and I asked about the rear defrsoter problem. Turns out that I was turning on the windshield defroster! No wonder it took so long to defrost the back windshield.....

By the way, Eger Subaru in bridgeport, Pa have been wonderful to work with.

Thanks,
Talia

francophile

nematode, since your mileage has been dropping in general, I'd suspect something other than the speed at which you drive. Perhaps it's winterized fuel, perhaps alignment, tire pressure, tire wear, maybe even something a bit off with the car's tune.

I have an '00 Legacy GT sedan. I haven't checked highway mileage since I got back from CA, but on that drive (coast to coast) I saw no appreciable difference between tanks burned off at 85+ MPH, 75 MPH, 65 MPH. All were 28 MPG more or less, all with a loaded car, and all the miles were freeway miles.

Regards,
-wdb

mikenk

I will throw in my 2 cents. I have the OB VDC and have had 2 other Subies in the past; I also have a Toyota Supra and have owned 2 honda Accords and a prelude. All of these have been in a class about equal in reliability, but clearly above the Fords, Buicks, and Volvos that I have owned. In addition, with the H6, you don't have to worry about that damn interference timing belt; always bugged me on Hondas, but never had a problem.

I really like the VDC.
Mike

armac13

embarrassing isn't it! The first thing I did when I picked up my Forester (well after I got home) was to read the manual and I still blew it. Glad that was you're problem as well. Too many features, not enough attention in my case anyway.

Ross

ateixeira

nematode: can you try driving one more tank, at a slower speed, to see if mileage goes back up?

My experience is similar. Maybe the Outback and Forester have enough drag that high speeds mean less efficiency.

Ross/Tali: I read the manual, finally, and actually discovered 7 things about my Forester that I didn't know. This was a while ago, but I even wrote them down!

-juice

tara

from the Wall Street Journal.

Sam Walker is writing about the leasing market, and how it is not what it used to be. He is also looking for consumers who got a great leasing deal years ago and now have sticker shock. Perhaps they scaled down in model, or found other ways to cope with the significantly higher prices.

Please post if you have had anything like this happen to you recently.

Thank you!
Tara
Host
Station Wagons Message Board

grahampeters

G'day
One thing that can affect mileage quite considerably is how long since the injectors were cleaned. The addition of a fuel additive as recommended by Subaru here in Australia at routine service intervals, seems to clean the injectors, dramatically improving performance both on acceleration and mileage.

Cheers

Graham

oobe

Someone told me that with a front wheel drive or a 4-wheel drive, you can't fishtail but with Subaru, although it is an AWD, you can still fishtail. And that it was safer with a front or a 4 wheel drive. It snowed here in Ohio today and I went to the parking lot and tried to fishtail and sure enough I did fishtail. I assume that because the auto(which is what I have) splits the power to the front/back in the range of 10/90 to 30/70, there is still that rear wheel drive effect which caused the fishtail. Concerning safety, any comments anybody?

subearu

Which Subaru do you have? If you have one with the rear limited slip differential (comes with the all weather package on the Outback, standard in the Legacy GT Limiteds), then once the diff locks up, you can get some fish tailling, or what some refer to as "wagging the tail".

I think you can also get this to happen in a non-limited slip diff setup, but it's probably easier with the diff.

I was surprised at the snowfall amount here in SE Wisconsin. Last night they said maybe an inch of snow for today. I think we may have gotten about 2 inches of heavy wet snow.

-Brian

mikezak

This week I took my first look and test drive of the Subaru Outback. The dealer also had an Outback in the showroom which was elevated on its front two wheels.

I used the opportunity to look under the vehicle and could not find the oil pan plug or see the oil filter. Where are they? All I could see is a sort of plastic guard.

My questions are:

1). If they are under the guard, how difficult is the guard to remove?
2). Being I have my oil changed at a local 'lube' garage, (nearest Sub dealer is 35+ miles away) will the average oil change kid have know how to do it?
3). There is a known confusion on the Forester regarding the Oil Plug and the Transmission plug. Does the same condition exist on the 2001 Outback?

And finally a some questions --

- Should I be concerned about buying a Subaru vehicle with the dealer being 35+ miles away?
- Are the vehicles obtained easily between dealers, or how long does it take to 'order'?
- Can a person get a better deal via an order or take deliver on one from stock?

My thanks in advance.

kmclean

Mike Z:

Howdy from Seattle, Mike.

Actually the access to the drain plug and filter is a piece of cake. If you look carefully at that dust/gravel shield under the engine compartment, you'd see a small panel, held in place by a few (I'm not certain of the number, but around 2-4 - it's too dark and wet here to go out and check for certain) pop fasteners. You just pull out the fasteners, and pull the small panel forward and out. That reveals both the filter and the drain plug, and then you can have at it. The first time you remove the panel will take you less than 5 minutes (to convince yourself you're doing it correctly); after that, you'll have that little hummer of in a minute flat. The only other comment I'd make (and I change my own oil) is that the drain hole is pretty big, so the oil really pours out quickly - beware of spillage or hot oil if you do it yourself. I have a 2000 Ltd. wagon 5-speed, so I can't say much about the transmission plug.

Personally, if I were going to have someone else do the job, I'd either remove that small panel myself first, or at least explain to them what they need to do to take it off. In my experience, turning jobs like that over to others often results in the "disappearance" of things like the little pop fasteners. It's an easy job to do yourself (at least during decent weather), so why not give it a shot. You can do the job with top-grade oil and a new filter for only 10 bucks - maybe less (including a new plug gasket).

I'll let others respond to your questions about dealers, etc.

Cheers to all!

Ken M.

originalbitman

Oil change is easy. The plastic guard has a round access hole in it towards the back through which you can get at the drain plug for the oil pan. There is also a removable hatch on the left front (passenger side) of the guard that slides out to reveal the oil filter. The hatch has 3 pop out plastic plugs that hold it in place. I can do my oil change without raising the car. There are diagrams of both the drain plug location and oil filter hatch in the owner's manual that you could show the "oil change kid".

As for dealer distance... If you are taking you OB to the dealer for every scheduled maintenance then that's a trip at every 7,500 miles/7.5 months (after the first one at 3,000/3 months). It wouldn't sound bad to me.

Yes dealer do swaps though I would prefer to buy off the lot and not have someone jockey a car to my dealer for me. Oders take 6-8 weeks (I believe). I was lucky and got mine in under a month.

I got the same deal with an order as I would have gotten from stock.

Does everyone know that at MySubaru you can view AND download a pdf version of your Owner's Manual?

bit

ttamatruda

thanks for replying to my clutch question.
Juice- can you talk a bit about weakness in the stock clutch?
KenS-Should I still be smelling a burning smell after driving on freeway?
Does anyone think this is clutch, or is there something else that smells like burning after 10,000 miles?
Any comment on the standard clutch or the heavy duty clutch? "Heavy duty" (I think) was one of the options when I bought my 2000 outback ltd in July 2000. I wish that I had taken it! Should I replace the current clutch again, for a heavy duty model? Subaru representative said that they are now using the heavier duty model clutch in all standard transmission outbacks. He said this decision was made to consolidate vendors. Does anyone know if there is a documented higher failure rate with the standard clutch?
Thanks. TA

ckfreund

I just went through our first tank of gas with our new Outback. It got 22.8 mpg in mixed driving in temperatures ranging from 18 to 35 degrees F. I haven't noticed that awful smell that people were writing about. Normally, Subaru dealers put their orders in the 1st of the week and then its 6 weeks until the Outback comes in (8 weeks for a Forester). One of the cars being sent to our dealer matched what we wanted so we got it in 3 weeks. The factory stereo doesn't sound the best so I'm having an Eclipse CD receiver and speakers installed. That's going to end up costing me more than if I had ordered the premium stereo option but I'll probably keep the car for 15 years so its worth it. Another thought on gas mileage and speed. Last year, we drove our 1998 Ford Contour (5 speed, 123 hp) from Wisconsin to Colorado. It got 37 mpg in Iowa (speed limit 65) and 31 mpg in Nebraska (speed limit 75). Driving on highways in Colorado at high altitude, it got 41 mpg.

sibbald

I am just about to do my first oil change (2000 Outback) as the dealer did them for parts only in the first year. Your posts are helpful and very much appreciated!
Tom

oobe

Thanks for the reply. I have a limited slip differntial which is supposed to provide more power to the wheel that is not slipping.

laskowski911

Hi, I am new to your sight, although I did read it before purchasing my 2001 Wintergreen Outback Wagon. I feel confident in my choice, however, I have a problem w/my new car. This problem had been remarked on in message #272(I think it is simalar, anyways)but no one seemed to respond to it. When I am driving and lift my foot off the accelorator to slow, then put my foot back on & gently accelorate, my car stutters???shudders????It is hard to describe.This car is an automatic transmission. I took the service dept guy for a ride in it the other day, he says there is definetely something wrong, will go for service 3/21/01...Purchase date:3/8/01 in for service less than 2 weeks after purchase. I don't feel that it is a tranny prob, the tach doesn't jump when it happens, any suggestions?? I love my car otherwise, although the passenger seat sticks out way too far in the lumbar area, the driver seat is "ok" because I can adjust it. I do most of the driving of this vehicle(I occasionally let my husband behind the wheel). I have confidence in Subaru, so I'm sure this will be fixed.

grahampeters

G'day Laurie

When I bought my Outback, I experienced some problems with stuttering particularly when the car had been cruising on a very light throttle for a long time and then accellerated. Subaru replaced the ECU which achieved a partial improvement but not enough to satisfy them. They were looking around fro a solution when Premium grade unleaded was introduced to Australia (Shell Optimax). I experimented and discovered that this cleared the stutter, improved fuel economy by about 10% and improved performance dramatically.

If no luck with service, try posting on the members page where patti Mickel of SOA regularly posts.

By the way, Subaru service is pretty special

Cheers

Graham

hwaitung

My new 2001 Legacy L wagon (automatic) has the same problem. It usually happens when you try to accelerate after you cruise for a while at about 40mph (1500rpm). I took it to my dealer but they can't duplicate the problem and told me that everything is within spec. I think I need to take it to another dealer to check it up.

tkevinblanc

Okay, I've got the opportunity to act like a little boy and buy the car I've always wanted. Believe it or not, It's an Outback.

Here's my quandry. I like the old style as much or more than the new one. Are the newer wagons that much of an improvement?

sibbald

Obviously depends on how good a deal you get on a used one. If used, I would recommend a 2000 as the improvements were significant in the new model. I traded in my 97 Outback (loved that car) for a 2000 Outback (love it even more) because of less wind, motor and road noise, better interior and seats, more options and good looks.
Good luck, Tom.

joeb24

Hi Laskowski911 (post 878),

I wrote in post 272 about what I perceive as "jerky" acceleration and deceleration in my LL Bean at speeds above 50 mph. Note it only occurs in my Bean at speeds above 50 mph. Is it the same in your car? I would definitely be interested in what your service department finds. When I took a service person for a ride, he claimed it was "normal." Others responding to my post indicated it is because of the nature of the AWD drivetrain.

Grahampeters (post 879) said his problem was solved by using premium grade fuel. But I have been using 93 octane since I bought the car, so that doesn't seem to be the problem. By the way Grahampeters, was is an ECU?

This problem is not serious, but it is an annoyance.

FrankMc

had alot of improvements, but buying a '99 or before will save you alot of money (older body style, and a few years of depreciation and all of that). They were (and still are) great cars. It might depend upon finding the used Outback that you are comfortable with. The '96 Outbacks required premium fuel ((I think... it may have been '95). Good Luck in your search.

Frank

armac13

grahampeters

G'day

In Australia, Premium Unleaded is approximately 99 RON (Octane number) and this dramaticaly improves performance.

The ECU (Engine Control Unit) is the computer which controls all of the engine functions and is located in the cavity in the centre of the dashboard below the radio and heater switches.

The stuttering in my Outback had a little to do with my driving technique. I am fairly mean with acceleration (hey, I'm a CPA and don't want to waste money) and tend to do a fair bit of country driving at freeway speeds. The ECu is adaptive, learning our likely driving style based on the last twenty minutes approximately. If I had been driving on a light throttle for twenty minutes, the engine would expect a very lean throttle application and at the frst acceleration where I wanted something more would hiccough spectacularly.

There is a very steep mountain range on a freeway I use occassionally where, about an hour after starting my trip, the car would start to over-run the cruise control, leading to a pretty impressive juddering effect.

I have been using Shell Optimax for eighteen months with noticable improvements in performance. I have a tank of standard unleaded now with no ill effects and will be travelling the same freeway in about ten days time. If it misbehaves, I will know all about it.

Cheers

Graham

ateixeira

The '95 had the 2.2l, the '96 got the 2.5l but required premium fuel. The '97 got a power boost to 165hp and used 87 octane, so I'd shop for 97-99 if you like that bodystyle.

Though they are smaller and not as stiff, they also weigh less.

Tom: seems like folks on i Club complain about the pressure plate not being strong enough. Keep in mind a lot of those guys autocross, and most have at least a few mods, so they demand a lot from their clutches.

-juice

nematode

juice: I tried this last tank at 65mph and mpg went back up to 25.6.

I run 33psi all around and I believe that the alignment and balance are fine. I check the tire pressure every 4 tanks and adjust as necessary. Its dead stable to 85mph and the tire wear is even. I use fuel injector cleaner (STP) every 10k and run Shell 87 octane. I have not noticed any difference after cleaning in terms of mpg or performance. Greater than 99% of my trips are more than 15miles and nearly all highway.

If I drive 85mph I get 19-20mpg. I have tested this from several trips to Philadelphia. A few runs near the triple digits puts it in the teens (about 16-17mpg). If you are really getting 27mpg at 85mph I'm really jealous.

ateixeira

The funny thing is that my Forester matches my Miata in gas mileage. Both get about 25-26mpg.

Funny considering it's a 2.5l AWD vs. a 1.6l 2WD.

Same driving style and roads.

-juice

laskowski911

Hi Joe (post # 883),The "jerky" acceleration happens in my car anywhere from 30-60 mph, sometimes 30 mph or less, though, also, it doesn't happen every time. The service man questioned the gasoline, he feels that is not the problem. I will be very discouraged if they tell me that they cannot find anything wrong. Also pointed out to him that my car pulls to the left, whether I am in the right or left lane, will they charge me to re-align it? I will only have the car 2 weeks on Thursday. Thanks everyone for your input!

sibbald

Laurie, I did a previous post regarding this problem which you may find useful. It was post #359 (just use the go to box at top of page) and also a similar post by Stephen #361.
Good luck,
Tom

laskowski911

thanks, Tom, I will be sure to mention that to the service dept. Hopefully the problem will be solved.Its not that bad, just a little irritating.Thanks for the tip, Laurie

lucien2

It also depends on which engine you like. I am a fan of the '99 simply because the car is lighter and the engine develops maximum torque a bit higher on the tach. The '00 is stiffer though, albeit heavier. And develops max torque down low, making it quick off the line. I like mine higher up, where I can use it for passing, merging, etc., and is tremendously useful at the track.

ctnative

I am going to be purchasing a 2001 Subaru Outback Wagon and have a few questions--

1. Do you really have to pay additional taxes if you purchase from Fitzerald's and live in another state?

2. Is it possible to add on a sunroof/moonroof after market? I do not like the dual moonroofs of the OB Limited and would only want one in the front.

Thanks.

FrankMc

If you buy in Fitzgeralds from out of state there is an extra MD. Tax (a tire disposal tax of under $10). You pay the sales tax for the state you are registering the car in. (depending upon how you pay for the car... if you pay cash there is no tax collected in MD... if you finance they collect your state tax for you). I have purchased both of my Subaru's in MD and I live in PA.

Juice added a sunroof to his Forester aftermarket, he was happy I'm sure he can provide details. I see no reason you couldn't also do an Outback

ateixeira

I've heard that there are aftermarket moonroofs for the Outback, but I don't have any details.

I'd look in your yellow pages for a local shop that does them, under Automotive - Accessories. Find a shop that is ASC approved and offers a lifetime warranty.

-juice

originalbitman

My dealer (Carlsen in Redwood City, CA) does aftermarket moonroofs on the Legacy body including OBs. They look great but I do not know the manufacturer. You could call them and ask...(650) 365-6390.

bit

subearu

I went and got an estimate from an ASC dealer in my area shortly after I got our OB in July. I think their quote was $1500. I probably have the model # at home. It's a motorized glass that has a tilt feature and slides into the roof (because the OB has the roof rack). That price included trimming the roof rack rails a bit too.

This may be something we do this year. I'd sure love to have one!

-Brian

hondafriek

After having aftermarket sunroofs installed in two cars I have owned I swore I would never do it again, check out any car that has a factory sunroof the car is designed for it, there are extra reinforcing strips which incidently is causing me a headache as regards a dent in my new GT wagon but that is another story, when a roof is cut to install a sunroof after the fact a lot of the strength is cut out of the roof, in about 90 percent of roofs they actually have to cut a reinforcing strip, I know in both my cars I had squeaks that were never there before the sunroof was installed.
Just my opinion for what it is worth.

Cheers Pat.