Subaru Legacy/Outback

grahampeters

G'day
Had a longish trip yesterday travelling to a large sheep station about four hours away. My trip included one tank fill of petrol where I averaged 12.5l/100km or about 36mpg on the imperial scale from my Outback Limited over 521km. I can never remember what the conversion to US gallons is but this was done with the car mostly set on 100kmh (62mph) on cruise control.

I feel absolutely exhausted this morning as it was not a fun trip and the return, done in the dark, included near misses with a kangaroo, a hare, a dingo (wild dog) and being "rounded up" by a cattle dog who was attempting to use its skills on all the vehicles driving through its small town. The car also appears to be wearing a thick layer of insect life after I hit a swarm of grasshoppers.

I am definitely feeling my age this morning.

Cheers

Graham

armac13

12.5l/100km = 22.5 mpg Imperial, 18.7 US! Your figure seems about right for 12.5 km/ l. (Actually I just calculated it and your conversion is for km/l!) Did you really use 65.1l??

Ross

hondafriek

You beat me to it I just made the same conversion litres to imperial gallons.
Cheers Pat.

sibbald

What a great story, thanks for sharing it! I was complaining about a little rain (buckets) on my last trip to the mountains but never again. Re. your mileage, for anything over 34 M.P.G. Imperial, you would need to be under 8l/100k. I usually avg. 32.5 M.P.G. on my 500 k trips using mid-grade.

Cheers, Tom
p.s. I think we have a 60 litre tank.

nematode

Just over a year and 25k miles later the 6CD changer died today.

I classify it as a moderate problem because it requires a trip to the dealer and its annoying. I put it in the same class as when an O2 sensor bites the dust before its time. The CD changer is making some noises but will not load or play any of the CDs. It will not eject them either so I'm guessing one got stuck and now the whole thing is jammed. Not a huge deal because the single CD player still works fine and so does the tape deck but I have an appointment the dealer on Monday to get it fixed and an oil change while I'm there.
Other than having to go to the dealer what annoys me most is that I can get my Metallica "Master of Puppets" or Public Enemy "Fear of a Black Planet" CDs out....Two of my favorites are stuck in there until monday. That's annoying.

breckco

I notice some "feathering" of the tire tread recently on our 2000 Outback. When I look at the the tire directly from the side one side of a tread segment is higher than the other. The car has only 10,000 miles on it and I check the pressure regularly and had a tire rotation done at 7,500 miles.

I brought the car to the dealer thinking it was an alignment problem (though the car tracks perfectly). A technician looked at the car before the advisor even wrote it up and said it was "normal", especially with Firestones. He did point out another higher mileage Outback that looked similar but not quite as bad. The tech said this never happened when Subaru used Michelins.

I called the Subaru 800# and asked what they could tell me about this tire wear and he told me to get the alignment checked as he wasn't aware of any issues. I'm frustrated. I took nearly 2 hours of my time and still don't know what's up. I usually expect a minimum of 40-60K on tires as I maintain them well. It looks like the Firestones won't come even close. These tires seem very poor. Even the black part of the sidewall by the white letters is coming off despite no curb scuffing. Anyone else notice this? Any Suggestions appreciated.

Live Happy,

Chris

jim235

I just bought a VDC and want to get a spare set of wheels for winter tires. A set of original equipment wheels for the VDC is $1281 ($922 through Darlene) but I don't want to spend that much; at that price I'd rather switch tires on the wheels twice a year. I understand that I could use regular Outback wheels also, which retail for $736 ($530 through Darlene). My first question is whether there would be any disadvantage to substituting the regular Outback wheel for the gold painted VDC one. My second question, at Darlene's suggestion, is whether I could use a Forester wheel which Darlene tells me is available in steel and would perform better in the winter and would also be cheaper. My third is whether after market wheels are available in steel or alloy which would be as good and cheaper than the OEM wheels. Any suggestions would be much appreciated.

grahampeters

G'day

How to make an Accountant feel silly. Yes, I made 8l/100km or 12.5km per litre.

I'll plead the fact that I felt absolutely exhausted by the day.

Cheers

Graham

laureng1

Hi. I have a 2001 OB wagon in White Birch. I love it! I have never regretted buying it! It's truly a joy to own and drive. I don't see many in the white around here where I live (Vermont) but I love it because my previous car was a dark blue and always looked dirty or dusty even after it was washed & waxed.

My question: is there anyone out there who canoes and has secured their canoe up on the factory roof rails & rack? We plan to use the OB for our canoe trips and my husband thinks we don't need any other accessories to put the canoe on. Just secure it and be on our way. In the past we have used a special rack on our Chevy Silverado but want to start using the OB for the trips with the canoe. Not that we'll be canoeing anytime soon because it's STILL snowing here but though I would check. Thanks.

Lauren

armac13

With all of the talk about OCD, I felt it necessary to maintain accuracy. :-)

Ross

laskowski911

Hi folks, I am back. Well, re:the problem that I am having w/ my 2001 Outback Wagon. First, let me say that at this point in time, I am less than impressed w/my dealers service dept. I had a terrible time getting phone calls returned, then people weren't there and no-one else was willing to tell me about my car.Hopefully the service will improve, should I ever need it again. They found that one of the tires was defective(no explanation), and that the problem w/ the stuttering was "normal" for the break in period of the vehicle. My question to anyone who cares to answer it...How long IS the break
in period of a new car...? I now have approx 1400 miles on this car.However, they did give me another 2001 Outback to drive while my car went to Firestone, and that car did the same thing, so I guess it is "normal". I suppose that I will accept this as long as it doesn't get worse.

Graham, I am using supreme gaasoline, no difference, thanks for the suggestion, tho.

hammersley

If you're ISO a set of steel wheels on the cheap, I'd start at your local salvage yard (make sure they're not as bent as the cars they come off of!) - failing that, any tire shop worth their salt should be able to get you steel wheels with the proper hole pattern & offset, and they don't have to be Subaru-specific.

I used the stock alloys on my 97 OBW for snow wheels this past winter, then bought a set of American Racing "Crossfire" wheels (15x7) - retail for $119 each, and I paid $89. I had heard that Subaru wheels were spendy, but wow! You have until next winter, so take your time & get the most bang for your buck!

Cheers!
Paul

smokeybaer

Is there any way to reprogram the new Outbacks so all the doors unlock with one click of the remote and to turn off the daytime running lights. It seems to be just a drain on the battery with the lights on in town and I can always turn them on manually myself if desired.

jamesnoel

Why would anyone want to disable their daytime running lights? If they run at about %80 of normal brightness ( 55w x 2 = 110w ) thats about 88w or approximately 7.3 amps. Or .11 hp. The drain on a 90 amp alternator would be minimal. I personally consider the lights an important safety feature.

hammersley

Despite the safety edge, some drivers like to disable them for the "stealth" value... you're less noticeable to ol' smokey... not sure how the Subaru DRL's are wired, but many mfr's wire them to the parking brake - brake on, DRL's off. One click on the pedal or ratchet handle is usually enough, but you run the risk of overheating & premature wear on the brakes.

Cheers!
Paul

ateixeira

That sucks, nematode. Let us know how/when they fix it?

Chris: I would ask a more reponsive dealer to check the alignment. Do you drive very aggressively?

Jim: I found aftermarket wheels at http://www.discounttiredirect.com/. Go to Specials, and then call to see what fits. I paid just $75 per wheel, and mine are 16"x7", slightly wider than stock Forester S wheels.

Also try the tirerack. You may just want steel wheels for snow tires, FWIW.

Lauren: yes, I've seen a canoe on a Forester without any special hardware. I had a picture of it on my web site, even, but homepage.com went out of business as of yesterday.

Still, that means yes, it's possible.

-juice

tara

Just a quick note to say that I am transitioning out of the hosting gig...Pocahontas will be my new and more than able replacement, so be sure to welcome her with outstretched cyber-arms. I will be remaining in the Town Hall department here at Edmunds, but my responsibilities will shift from the boards. I'll try to stop by from time to time. Thanks for being such a great board, for a first time host!!


Tara
insert title here

soon2bsubee

Thanks for being a knowledgeable and gracious host...good luck in your new position

smokeybaer

They might be a great safety feature but when sitting in gridlock traffic with the engine at idle they are only a receipe for a dead battery. Back when cars had ammeters you could see how badly your battery was discharging but now you only know when its time to start the motor and it won't.

francophile

nematode #955: the 6 CD changer has a minor history of not egesting the CD's once it has ingested them. I've yet to hear anyone say that it destroyed any CD's, so your music should be okay once you get it back out of there.

brecko #956: your car is still under 12k miles. INSIST that the dealer do an alignment, front AND rear. Misalignment is another minor complaint with Subies; if your car is feathering the tires and yet drives straight, my guess is that it is toed in too much.

smokeybaer #963: I haven't heard of anyone doing that kind of reprogramming. I actually like the way the remote works. The first push unlocks only the driver's door, which is probably done for safety; imagine that you are female, that you are in a big parking garage, in a rough part of the city, and that no other people appear to be around. How many doors do you want to unlock?

Tara #967: your sig says, "Insert title here." Thanks for your help on the boards; for title, may I suggest, "Sharp Cookie"?

Cheers,
-wdb

armac13

have been standard equipment in Canada for at least 10 years. I have not noticed any battery or alternator problems. With my last car, a VW Golf I replaced the battery just before I hit the 6 year mark. Most of my driving is in the city and my commute for most of the 6 years was under 5 km. (3 miles). Your argument sounds good, but does not stand up to scrutiny

Ross

goosegog

Brecko #956: I wonder if your remark about "Even the black part of the sidewall by the white letters is coming off despite no curb scuffing" is similar to what I have noticed. See my post #876.

breckco

Thanks for responses and a great forum. I'm new to posting to this forum though I've read it for some time.

Francofile - Thanks for the suggestion to check the alignment. I will do that.

Ateixeiria - No, I don't drive the Out back aggressively at all. I save that for when I get the chance to race. I'm kind a car buff and am very fussy about how we drive and maintain our cars.

Goosegog - It sounds like the same thing. I think the freestone tires are very poor. I spoke with a Subaru technician who told me the Bridge stones that are put on some Subarus are much better - Figure that one out! This just reinforces my obsession with Michelin. I wish Subaru would offer even a modest compensation to change tires.

Live Happy,

Chris

scott4444

I would like to thank the list for helping inform my desire to buy a Subaru. I looked at the cutback for a while but (after seeing my first one last week) I think I prefer the T. I just need an automatic or I would have probably gone for that one. My questions are:
How would I track down a 98-99 CT wagon with AT? (I'm lucky to see a AL in the paper on a given week.)
OR
If I buy new, should I expect to pay a premium because I have to order it? (I live in Texas, and the dealers laugh at me when I have the nerve to request a CT wagon.)
and for grins,
Has anyone else noticed that 100% of the new Legacy I wagons in Texas dealer lots are Wintergreen?

--Scott.

scott4444

I mean "Outback" not "cutback." I think I know how this spellchecker works now, sorry.
--scott

laskowski911

Actually, You would think that the dealer knows what Subaru considers to be the breakin period for the Outback and realize that mine is beyond that time frame. Also, I did RTFM,(Juice) but regret to inform those who memorized it that there is alot of information to retain at once, and since everyone in the past has been so helpful, I felt welcome to ask this harmless little question, since I was on the site & everyone had been so helpful in the past. I guess I won't do that again!! Thanks to everyone who were so helpful, GOODBYE!!!

elliowb

I'm wondering if any other Subaru owners have had clutch problems similar to what I'm experiencing? The clutch has excessive free play if the weather is either extremely cold or hot and then after driving for awhile, the free play disappears or reduces. It has gotten so bad at times that I can't even get the car into reverse (I only have about an inch of clutch). The dealer already replaced the master cylinder at about 30K, this solved the problem until now. The car now has 70K. Do Subbies need a new master cylinder every 30K or so??? I hope not. I don't find any service bulletins. Has anyone else had this problem, or do you have any suggestions?

Thanks, Bill

elliowb

Scott, I would recommend that you try one of the on-line locator services (I think that Edmunds has some links). The dealer that I was referred to from an on-line service back in 1998 when I was looking for my GT had the car brought into Milwaukee from Chicago, at no charge. Got exactly what I was looking for and at a great price as well.
-- Bill

kmclean

Yo, Laskowski - I'm certain this normally very civil group intended no offense - but if they did, give 'em little slack - we all have our less-than-polite moments. Hopefully your "goodbye" wasn't a permanent sign-off. And as one who has RTFM, I have a question for the group: I just recently glanced at the maintenance schedule to refresh my memory and make sure that I'm getting everything done, and I couldn't find any reference to changing the timing belt(s?) around 60K. Did I just miss it (it was a QUICK review), or is that requirement buried in the text somewhere? Had a '86 Dodge with an OHC engine and nylon/plastic timing belt - both the owner's manual and the 500-page shop manual ABSOLUTELY made no reference to a change - then it popped around 95K - no engine damage fortunately (like in Hondas) as the valves simply floated up. My Maxima has a timing chain - and hence has no need for a 60K swap. OK, juice, let me have it!

Regarding vehicle break-in period, although you hear the 1000-mile standard tossed around, I personally think that different systems break in at different rates - hence the improvements in gas mileage (and probably performance) noted elsewhere in this group. However, I'd expect brakes, clutch, suspension systems, etc., to be fully "set" by 1000 miles. I must have missed your "stuttering" post - is this the engine, or the brakes? Is it an automatic? My '97 Maxima (a 5-speed), with a fabulous engine, has always been a bit squirrely at very low RPMs/power settings - like creeping along in a traffic jam - like it's hunting between dead idle (around 600 RPM) and about 8-900 RPM. I suspect it's an emission control artifact and is a normal feature of the car.

Bill - I always ask people with clutch problems whether they're an "old-hand" manual transmission user. It's amazing how some truly (apparently) benign habits can kill a clutch - just resting your foot on the pedal at red lights with the tranny in neutral - likewise with your hand on the shifter whether in gear or not. Plus the obvious things like over-revving the engine before getting the clutch fully engaged or using the clutch to "hold" the car in place on a hill (say, didn't old Soobs used to do that automatically somehow? Or am I thinking of another brand?). But if you've had a bunch of manual trannies with no clutch problems in the past, then I'd say you've got a materials/design problem with your present setup. Either that or your teenagers are sneaking the car out for autocross rallies while you're at work!

Well, back to the Mariner's/A's game - they're sneaking up on the A's 2 to 4 at the bottom of the 6th.

Cheers from Seattle!

Ken M.

francophile

#978 laskowski911: As someone else noted, the folks here are really quite civil. I agree that you got knocked a bit hard with the RTFM comments, and that it seemed less than polite; however my impression is that the comments were general and not specifically aimed at you. (I still don't agree with them - not everyone needs or wants to ever, EVER look at the manual, and yet they deserve to come here and have a civil question met with a civil answer.)

So there was a bit of an over-reaction to your question, and some answers that could have been worded more clearly. However, by getting angry and stomping out, you are arguably doing the same thing they did - over-reacting. Blast 'em for grinching you, and then stick around. As you can see, these folks need someone to keep 'em in line .

#979 elliowb: I know clutches better than I know older Subies. If your clutch is actuated by a hydraulic mechanism, as your comment about the master cylinder indicates, then the excess play you are experiencing is from air getting into the hydraulics. The master cylinder could be the cause of this; so could the slave cylinder, and so could the plumbing that connects them. Usually if one of the cylinders is leaking there is fluid to be seen.

OTOH if your clutch is actuated by a mechanical system, a cable for example, then having it adjusted every year or so is normal. (NOTE that hydraulic clutch actuating systems NEVER need adjustment.)

HTH,
-wdb

ateixeira

Laurie: I am *very* sorry for the way that sounded.

No harm intended by my statement. RTFM is a common term in geek-land, but I shouldn't have used it anyway. I certainly didn't memorize all of my manual; I actually noted down the things I didn't already know (see what a geek I am?).

I'm sorry you took it that way. My apologies! FWIW, I will delete that post.

Scott - 2 year old Legacys do not depreciate much at all. They'll still cost you $18k or so. A new one can go for $22k, so I'd spring for that. Even consider the Legacy L, which has the same 2.5l with more torque than the '98-99 GT, and also has AWD, ABS, power everthing, etc.

Ken: the timing belt is scheduled for inspection at 90k miles, and a change at 105k miles (unless the inspection reveals it's worn).

Yep, Subaru used to have a hill holder clutch. I think they still make it in some markets, too.

-juice

elliowb

Thanks for the responses. I have only owned manual tranny vehicles for the last 20+ years (just had to replace the first clutch on my 205k 1988 Accord) and the only other driver is my wife. It is a hydraulic clutch and I agree that it appears to be air in the system (I can't see any leaks though). However, what I don't understand is why it completely "fixes" itself after driving for a period of time.

The other odd part about it is that when I try to bleed the system, I can only get one pump on the clutch. Then the master cylinder apparently doesn't take any more fluid from the resevior. In fact, I just removed the master cylinder last night and find the same result when I depress the pushrod on the master cylinder. Any clues????

-- Bill

nematode

The 6CD changer is offically dead. The dealer has one on order and it should be in end of this week. It was covered under 3/36. We are at 25k so if this happened in the Passat would it have still been covered? I'm not sure but I dont think so.

supersoob

or should we say OriginalBite_my_headoff_man. Why should you care if I or anyone else RTFM? If you think someones question or comment shows a lack of knowledge or just flat out annoys you, don't respond. You should save your rants and apologize to Madam laskowski911 for your insensitive post.

originalbitman

Yes you are all correct and I did over react. I truly apologize to anyone that was offended by my comment.

However, I feel that if there is one bit of advice that can be offered universally to anyone who visits this list it would be to read the manual. There is lots of great information in there and it will make the relationship with your car a much more enjoyable (and perhaps less frustrating) experience. Along with the printed manual there is an online version that covers maintenance and service available at Subaru.com when you sign up for MySubaru. It is in pdf format and very nicely indexed. In addition you can download it to your hard drive and have it always available. Also at MySubaru you will find a maintenance schedule for you vehicle and recall notices.

bit

ateixeira

If you had a Passat you'd be paying for a new 6 CD changer. Their B2B is only 24k miles.

-juice

rsholland

They only offer a 2-year, 24K warranty. That's not very long. In fact, it's probably among the shortest in the industry.

Bob

ateixeira

It is. A few exotic manufacturers (Lotus, I think) offer 2 year warranties, but even then it's unlimited mileage.

VW's got good powertrain coverage, but the B2B is indeed the worst in the industry. Plus, the 10 year powertrain warranty only applies to the original owner, so I wonder how many claims they'll actually have to pay for 9 years down the road.

-juice

laskowski911

I accept your apologies, Ya'll knew I couldn't stay away for long, everyone is so interesting!!Thanks everyone for your support!!! )

kmclean: my original post is #878, it desribes the problem I am having. Thanks

originalbitman

Laurie - I'm glad you decided to come back.

bit

atatu

Hi, I'm seriously considering buying an Outback station wagon. The #1 priority for me is safety. Looking at the insurance institute web site, I see that they tested a Legacy sedan and it scored very well ("best pick"). Do we think the Outback wagon would score similarly well, or are the two very different cars ? Thanks in advance.

yellowbikedon

Glad you're back. If one thing characterizes this board it's the general civility of its participants and the ability to go forward!

Best of all, each of us can learn from the other, be it Subarus or whatever!!!

Don

francophile

Especially in the front end collision ratings the wagon and the sedan are going to fare almost identically. In side impact they may differ, but it won't be much. The Legacy platform is very protective of its occupants in either sedan or wagon versions.

Plus, since it handles very well and has AWD and ABS, you may well be able to avoid the accident in the first place, which has always been my preferred route ;-)

Cheers,
-wdb

ateixeira

Laurie: thanks for coming back. I promise to at least explain any "inside jokes" if I use them in the future. Maybe Edmunds should publish an etiquette manual, and you could tell me to go RTFM! :-)

My dad also has a 2001 Outback auto (a Limited though), they are realy nice.

You originally mentioned you were taking it to the shop on 3/21. Is it with the dealer now?

I would guess it's either the ECU, fuel injectors, or spark plug wires.

Anthony: sit inside the Outback - it even feels safe. The 2000 and later ones in particular have bulked up well. If you can afford a Limited, that adds side air bags.

If you cashed in on your stocks before the recent slide, get the VDC for the skid control - talk about preventing accidents in the first place!

-juice

bast2

Well, drove the GT Limited last weekend for the first time. Loved the looks, room was adequate, quiet/stable ride. But dammit, not as spunky as I had hoped. And no 60/40 fold-down rear seat, what gives?

I'm taking an Audi A4 out for a spin this weekend. More bucks and a bit less room, yet guessing it'll be more responsive and fun. We'll soon find out.

Pros and cons for either are certainly welcome. This is going to be tough.

francophile

I compared the same cars. I chose the GT. This was in March 2000.

The A4 I drove was equal to or less peppy than the GT I bought. That was a 150hp model, the new ones are 170hp. Subies loosen up over time; my year-old car is peppier and gets better gas mileage than it did when new. I don't know about Audis in this regard, just realize that the Subie you drive at the dealer will get better with age.

My opinion of the handling of the two cars was that they were equally fun to toss around. The Subie is a good cruiser too, solid as a house and quiet. I suspect the Audi would be too.

Subie GT's are rare vehicles. You won't see yourself coming down the road. Audi A4's are all over the place! This is the last year for the current A4; next year it will be a new model.

The GT interior is roomier front and rear; the Audi interior is plusher looking and has more buttons to play with on the radio and climate control. If you want a wagon there is no contest; the Legacy is monstrous inside compared to the Avant, and its back seat is palatial.

The Subaru is a value purchase. The Audi is a prestige purchase. My bet is that the Subie will cost less to own than the Audi. However parking attendants won't fight each other to take your keys (hmmm, maybe that's good). Also your relatives won't trip over each other for a ride in your new Subie when it is parked right next to your other relative's new Audi (this actually happened to me).

An A4 equipped the same as the GT would have cost me $5k more in March 2000. This year, with A4's being discounted, that difference is likely to be less.

Cheers,
-wdb

rsholland

Excellent analysis.

Bob

bast2

Excellent analysis is right! Thanks WDB, this is exactly what I've been waiting to hear from someone. I'm not really looking to "stroke" my ego with an Audi, but am keeping an open mind. It'll be my wife's car. We're giving up a Jeep Cherokee with 125,000+ miles and going back to a "car," yet we don't want to give up 4wd after being spoiled for so long during Wisconsin winters. My choices: A4, Legacy GT, Passat 4motion.

I like the look and room of the Passat, but the 4motion gives up 5 cubic feet in the trunk, knocking it down to 10cu.ft. AND the 4motion option does away with 60/40 split rear seats. Not to mention the 2yr. warranty worries me.

Looks like we need to get down and dirty with the A4 and GT this weekend and see which comes out on top. Dealer came at me with $25,200 for the GT; looks like the A4 set up as desired is going to be roughly 27,500.

I'll report back on Monday.....

JB

ateixeira

If you buy an A4 now, in a short while you'll be driving the "old A4". At least the people that you would be trying to impress will be thinking that.

I'd at least wait to see/drive the new one. It's supposed to address the main deficit - the rear seat.

Get a wagon, though! Triple the cargo room for the same money.

-juice

PS Drive a WRX sedan, for the heck of it. You're gonna love it.

bast2

Okay, what's the deal with the WRX? I've seen ONE TV commercial for it, but didn't get much of a look. Is it a "zippier" legacy GT or a completely new body style? And if new, larger or smaller than the GT? Are they being delivered to dealerships now?

The day I test drove a GT, the salesman stated that he was flying out the next day to race a WRX. I had no idea what he was talking about. I saw the commercial for it the next day. Interesting.

As for the "old A4" comment, I guess I don't really have an issue with the current style. I've seen photos of the "new" version and actually am not all that sure I like it. As for room, apparently it offers up an extra 1.25 inches in the back seat. The "old" version has clean, stylish lines... classy, but not opulent. The fact that it's the end of the line for that body style may make it a more affordable option.

It's really going to boil down to how the A4 feels and whether it performs $2500-$3000 better than the GT. I just can't get the GT test drive out of my mind.....stepped on the gas and the car acted like it had to "think" about it for a second before deciding to get movin' Probably deserves a second try.

JB