Subaru Legacy/Outback

originalbitman

Is the hard seat leather or fabric? There is a difference in how the feel when you sit in them.

bit

romola

Thanks for your comments, raybear and yellowbikedon. I expect that I will look into padding, but will first try to get Subaru to help. The dealer is not close, and for service I plan to go to a closer dealer. (I used autobytel so had little choice of dealer)
originalbitman -- the seats are fabric. I have the Legacy Outback (automatic). Being vegetarian I wouldn't want leather. A friend explained that for better handling a hard seat is good -- but I drive a lot -- commute 1+ hours each way daily and travel 400 miles roundtrip many weekends. So, seat comfort is very important to me. Custom upholstery may be necessary. I'm disappointed, though, that in spite of my efforts to get a good car for long-distance driving, I have a problem (..next time...I'll rent a car before buying).

owells

My wife and I both thought the (cloth) seats in our '00 Legacy were uncomfortable, but within a month or so they must have broken in. No more problems. A cousin, however, still complains about the seats in his mid 90s Impreza.

originalbitman

I have sat in both the leather and cloth (I have cloth) many times and always felt the cloth were both more comfortable and supportive than the leather. We have taken very long road trips and never found the seats to be uncomfortable. Perhaps there is a manufacturing glitch with yours.

bit

rsholland

I agree. I much prefer cloth to leather. Leather (like vinyl) is hot in the summer, cold in the winter, and slippery. Give me cloth any day of the week.

Bob

r22549

Unless you are transporting ones rotties once inawhile..:-)

hondafriek

When I was looking I found the seats in the base outback to be harder than the GT, also the fabric appeared to be of a cheaper quality in the outback also had a much rougher feel the GT fabric feels much softer and more luxurious.

Bit, instead of laying on your back doing all that waxing underneath just take everything off and have it powder coated that way you will only have to wash and not wax saves a lot of time, OCD. lives, three cheers for OCD.
Cheers Pat.

lucien2

..and can I just add that dog hair sticks to the OB interior like nothing I've ever seen!? Yeesh. Needs a roll of masking tape to even make a dent in it.

jagarland

I have a 2000 OBL and I find the leather seats quite comfortable. I am just about 6ft and weigh 235 (too much I know, but the seats are fine

Jack

FrankMc

I did what you suggested and rented a Legacy Wagon for a week before I bought mine (I had never had a wagon before and wanted to try it out). Therefore no surprises.

Frank

rockypaul

Had the original OB and you are correct the seats were hard.
My 2000 OB Ltd has great seats. I do not know if Sub switched suppliers but these
feel like many made by LTV and are very comfy.I drive 38 miles to my office in snow (125in/yr) and fog and crap.
Additional comment: leather is not like vinyl althought the new vinyls are very good.
Leather assumes body temp very quickly and is not deserving of the reputation of long ago,ie.,
cold in winter, hot in summer.

You will find the electric seats in Subs far more adjustable as well as more supportive and comfortable.

nygreg

Just bought the OB from Colonial last night. Who was your salesperson? Mine was Don Jowdy, nice guy, very easy to deal with. I think I also paid a few hundred over invoice, but they gave me $200 more on my trade than the wholesaler was paying. Couldn't get away from the "CT thing" on tags. Still, I did well. Pick it up Monday.

-Greg

subaru_team

Congrats on the purchase. Two suggestions:

Call us at 1-800-SUBARU3 so we can update our files to reflect you as the owner of the car. We can also let you know if there are any open recalls or service campaigns on your vehicle.

Then, just so you feel better, why not check your VIN with Carfax? If the car was ever in a "flood" situation, you can find out if there is an issue with the title. I think it is a great service.

Hope you enjoy your Subaru!

Patti

ateixeira

Kevin: I'd just wash the undercarrige. Get it up on ramps and use a pressure washer. I was amazed at the gunk that comes off!

romola: guess I can't suggest a wool seat cover to a vegetarian! ;-)

The firm seats offer good support for longer trips, and hold you in place during aggressive driving. It may take a while to get used to it, but I like it.

-juice

nu2soob

I have a '00 L. At first the seats were extremely hard, and like you I was in pain. After a few weeks the seat broke-in and now is very comfortable and supportive. I guess soob seats are like a good pair of shoes.
One problem though, my seats don't have any thigh support and since it doesn't have a seat bottom angle adjustment I can't compensate at all. This has started to aggravate my right knee. Any suggestions? TIA.

ateixeira

I put washers under the seat tracks on my Miata, and that helped some. On my Forester, though, the bolts come in at an angle, so it's not that simple.

Check out what the tracks look like. You may be able to use washers/spacers on your Legacy.

-juice

bat1161

I have the 2000 base OBW and the cloth seats are comfortable. I've done 5-6 hour trips in them with no complaints. ( The passenger seat is a different story. Wish they put the power seat in the front passenger!)

Mark

gam2

The seats in my '00 Outback are uncomfortable. I have my seat raised high and the lumbar support hits my butt, not my lower back. The whole seat should tilt/recline, not just the bottom cushion. Maybe removing some springs will soften the cushions. You can't easily raise the seat as the front bolts come in at an angle. Oh well!
GAM

kturner1

I too have found the cloth seats in my 01 L to be pretty hard. I was concerned because the cushion had been replaced due to a defect - maybe it still wasn't right. The passenger and rear seats are also very firm. I checked a leather and a cloth OB and they seemed about the same. The dealer told me that Toyotas are firm too but I didn't bother sitting in one. At 650 miles it's too soon to say my seat and I have adapted to each other but I seem to be dwelling on it less. Softer would be nicer in my opinion.

romola

Sadly, I have learned more about my uncomfortable seat. First, I think there is a defect in the mechanism (will confirm that next Tuesday). Subaru customer svc as well as salesmen tell me that all seats are identical in Legacy GT, Outback, leather, cloth, all-weathcer. BUT, then, customer svc added: EXCEPT the all-weather seat added the heating elements on top of the basic seat and on top of that a "thin" layer of cushioning. So, my worst fears are confirmed -- lousy design that simply deletes a layer from the cheaper version. I intend to insist on an upgrade to a complete seat!!

francophile

My '00 GT seats are firm. I do not find them uncomfortable. I like firm seats. I wish the lumbar support came out a bit further but I have a bad back and I really only want it to do that when my back is acting up.

I would not buy a car I could not comfortably sit in! My goodness, that's the primary thing I do in a car - sit. Everything else happens after that.

Boggled,
-wdb

originalbitman

I agree with wdb. One of the first things I do when shopping for a car is plant my butt in the seat and and check out how it feels. Sure it's hard to estimate the comfort level on a 6 hour road trip but you can gauge the support and pressure points. I have driven many a 6 hour day in my 00 GT wagon and found the seat both supportive and comfortable. But that's my butt... we all have a different fit and no 2 butts fit the same seat the same way. As a mater of fact I saw a '73 Lincoln for sale the other day and just for a moment I dreamed of floating down the highway sunk nicely into that big ol couch.

bit

nematode

Received a letter today about a recall for the O2 sensor on our Outback Ltd.

That makes
1) Check engine light (may have been for fuel cap)
2) Broken 6CD changer (took over 2 weeks to get it)
3) Glove compartment does not work properly
4) Now the O2 sensor
5) Also the driver side door is kinda sticky. Its does not shut properly.

The little problems are starting to get annoying.

wired1

I've been looking into the purchase of either an Outback or Passat wagon. I'll use it mostly for work and the occasional transport of 2 sizable golden retrievers.

I see much "love" on this board (and on the Passat board as well) for the Outback. I'm certain that many of you have investigated the Passat.......what made you choose?

Also, as far as the hounds are concerned: Leather or fabric interior?

Thanks in advance to all!

sagarwal

Hello everyone. Great board and very informative. I have an opportunity to buy a '00 outback limited sedan w/ 6cd changer and spoiler, 18k miles for $19700. Car looks new and drives well. Any thoughts if this is a good deal? Thanks.

lucien2

wired1-

We chose the Subaru because of it had better relability prospects, was cheaper than a Passat 4motion, and had a slightly firmer ride than Passat (which felt a little floaty under hard cornering. My wife and I are both leadfeet!). That said, we loved VW's interior. We wish we could have had an Outback with an optional VW interior! Also, there were no deals to be had on Passat, while I was able to make a good one on the OB. Oh, the VW also required premium for that turbo, and we both though the the Subaru's 165hp did a better job if hauling the car around than VW's 155hp turbo 1.8.

sagawal-

doesn't sound like a particularly spectacular deal, though it is by no means a bad one.

gam2

I would stay away from the Passat. I know 3 people who have them. NOTHING but problems. One got rid of hers and bought a Honda. Another has a lawyer looking into the Lemon Law for repurchase.
The brand new loaner the gave her (another VW) broke on the way home. She took a beater of the lot. Another has been back to the dealer 8 times in 2 years. I have had a few problems with my '00 OB, but nothing like that. I have heard similar problems with Audi's. Problems may be covered under warranty, but they are a real pain! Your choice though.....
GAM

butchanahory2

Does anyone know of any good Subaru dealers in the callas area? Thanks a lot.

armac13

had numerous problems during the first 2 1/2 years including head gasket, 2 struts, rear window defroster, A/C, etc. Strangely, once the warranty ran out the car was flawless except for the brake pads and rotors going at an amazing rate (5 speed, lots of engine braking) - well into the third set at 100k km. At 6 years things were starting to go so the car did. :-)

Ross

canadiancl

Not all in one night, of course. Looking to trade wife's '97 CR-V in for something a little bigger. Therefore, ruled out the Forester and the RAV4. Liked the Volvo XC alot except for the price. However, issue of reliability has us worried. Outback may be the right combination of size, price and style, and dependability. From reading all the posts, I have a few questions for all you Outback folks:
1. Squeaky brakes seem to be a recurring theme in the posts. What's the consensus here? Is this affliction an exception to the rule or is it one of the nuances of the Outback? And are we talking about eardrum piercing squeal or just some noise that you can only hear if the windows are open?
2. Some people have also complained about a stuttering when accelerating. Again, how bad? Just a little hiccup, or enough to make you spill the Starbucks?
3. Is the Outback considered generally to be a quiet car in terms of road and engine noise? (One thing we are trying to get away from the the notorious noise level in the CR-V).
4. How many of you have flipped the RWL tires around to get rid of that Smokey and the Bandit look?
5. How many of you have bought the dealer-installed genuine Subaru alarm? How well does it work? Someone said the one for the Forester can let the user set it to passive-arming. Same for the Outback's? Does it have auto-relock? Where do they put the LED light? Does it come with a siren kit or do you have to put up with the horn blast every time you arm/disarm (assuming you want to have the audible indicator)?
6. How many have you have driven your Outback to see the new Crocodile Dundee movie to see Paul Hogan drive an Outback? lol

Thanks for any and all advice.

zeen

I have seen few posts about the Legacy Wagon. I really don't need the extra height and cladding of the Outback and am wondering how the Legacy compares to the Outback and other competitors. Is it basically the same ride? Does it come with a 6 or just the 4? My dealer only has Outbacks on the lot, no Legacies. Why is that? No demand?

dan2001

The manual says no but my new LLBean does not have a front seat power outlet for my cell phone.
Any thoughts?

Dan

breckco

I think you are wise to consider an Outback. We too considered getting a CRV, being big Honda fans. We really wanted to justify the CRV but just couldn't. The Outback feels so much more substantial. Much better power (at least with the 5 spd). More comfortable and a great car on the road.

To address your question:

1) We've never had a problem with squeaky brakes but it's normal for brakes to squeak a bit due to the metallic content in the brake pads.
2) Overall our Outback is very smooth and refined. The 5 spd shifts great and the clutch is amongst the best. When started cold it does require a little more attention to take-off smoothly from a stop. Not a big problem at all.
3) Car is quite quiet. In my opinion it has a "European" feel to it. I'm referring to the way it absorbs road bumps and the on-center feel of the steering.
4) Haven't done but I can't wait to replace the Firestones - Marginal tire at best.
5) I hate alarms but ours came with it installed. We have had no false alarms and yes you can put it in passive mode. Sadly, you can't disarm it with the key. My wife usually drives the Outback so I would prefer to not carry the bulky remote - no can do. It uses the horn to sound. There is a flashing indicator light in the dash that blinks "Alarm". It does not look like an add-on.

We've had only 2 problems with our Outback. After about 2k miles it developed a miss while idling. The dealer had the car for several days and couldn't find the problem. They tried to replace CPU's, plug wires and a couple of other things. I drove over to talk to the technician and asked him to pull out a spark plug. He did, and I was surprised to see "Champion" sparks plugs. Previous experience in my hot-rod day told me this was not good. I insisted installing NGK plugs and the problem was solved!

The other problem is a slight tire wear problem. I'm going to get the car aligned before 12k miles.

Overall the Subaru is a great car and an excellent value. I don't think they are quite up to Honda and Toyota in terms of quality/reliability but are very close. Keep in mind Subaru's are very safe cars. I'd buy one again for sure.

Live Happy,

breckco

bat1161

canadiancl-
I have a 00 base OBW since Sept. Re the OB questions:
1) Brakes- they only seem to squeak when they are wet in the morning when you first start out. It seems to have gone away over time.
2) I haven't noticed any stuttering when acccelerating. I'm a notorious coffee drinker,and havn;t spilled any yet(keeping the fingers crossed!).
3) Like any other car, with the windows closed on the highway it gives a rather quiet ride.
4)I left the tires alone.
5) I upgraded the alarm to an aftermarket alarm. If you can get a copy of the spring Drive magazine, they had info on the Subaru alarm.
I love my OB and can't complain about the ride and handling.

Dan,
Even though the manual says not to use the cigarette lighter for your cell phone, I use it with no problems. It does not get hot, and has caused no problems.

RE: OB seats,
You may want to check with your dealer, or possibly an after-market guy about upgrading to heated seats. They even have a package with lumbar support. It is a little pricey, but may be worth it.

Mark

david_ct

NYGreg, I just saw your post. Congrats on your OB. You've probably picked it up already. Enjoy your new car.

david_ct

My salesperson was Mike Cunnif. He was very professional, too. The whole sales experience was pretty good. The only annoyance was that the saleperson showed us how the car worked. This in itself is not a bad thing and is very professional, but I was too eager to want to drive/take the new car home. It was probably a good thing for my wife, since she still hasn't RTFM. But, then again, I'm the chauffer at home.

kmclean

Here's my input on your questions:

I have a 2000 OB Ltd wagon, 5-speed, 13 months old with 11K miles on it.

1) The brakes have never squeaked under any conditions. The car lives outside in often damp Seattle weather, and goes on many short trips - hence lots of opportunity for surface corrosion - but still nothing but silence.
2) Never noticed any stuttering problem - cold or warm. Clutch is just a teeny bit grabby, but within normal parameters (had many manuals).
3) Overall, very quiet. Long, high-speed trip to Glacier and Yellowstone last summer - silent. 1000 miles with 5 skiis on factory ski rack this winter - about 450 at interstate speeds - silence. Could hear noise if I opened the front sunroof (just testing) - but why would you have the sunroof open during ski season?
4) Nothing done with the tires. Hey, you gotta problem wid Smokey the B?!
5) Came with the factory-installed alarm. You can silence the horn. I also miss being able to deactivate it with the key only (boy, was THAT a surprise!). The key fob transmitter is a bit short-range compared to others I've had, and has noticeable directional variability.

Only had the ECM replaced under warranty (and had no symptoms that it was problematic). Rock killed a windshield, but local shop had original Subaru part (with the heating elements) in just a few days. I find the front seat comfort OK, but not great. I could probably do better by fiddling with the adjustments. GREAT crappy-weather car. Bullet-proof reliability so far. Just wish it had an interval REAR windshield wiper and map pouches on the backs of the front seats - for the kids to stow junk in. I'd definitely buy another.

Hope this helps!

Greetings and cheers from the PNW!

Ken M.

nygreg

Not yet. I have a meeting and then.....off to the dealer!!!! Yeah! Have my CD picked out and all. I'm such a kid. Thanks for the reply. Let you know about it tomorrow.

-Greg

canadiancl

Any other comment from other owners would be much apreciated.
BTW, the OB is due for a major makeover for '03, right?

nematode

Hello,
We have a 2k OB Ltd. (auto) 26k miles.

1. Depends on the model and who you ask. On ours they make a muted sound (not a squeek) the first 1-2 times that you apply them. After that. Quiet. The VDC I drove made an actual squeeking sound anytime I applied the brake that was loud enough to hear. The Bean version was quiet. Perhaps its specific to the VDC????
2. No idea. Ours accelerates just fine and has never hesitated.
3. The H4 turns about 2800-2850rpm at 70mph and you can hear it as a low purrr. Engine noise is not a problem at all. At 55mph the car is very quiet and you can hear your keys gingle. Wind noise on the other hand...at 65mph a woosh starts off the A-pillar that gets louder and louder as you go faster. At 75mph it get a little annoying after a few hours. The same wind noise is pretty bad after 75-80mph.
4. Nope.
5. We have the alarm upgrade and its fine I guess. Only went off one time when a valet was fiddling.
6. Thats pretty funny!

Overall its a pretty good car. Fit/finish is fair to below average for a car with an MSRP of $29k (was the list for ours with the options). Ofcourse we paid several thousand under that. The MSRP actually makes it more expensive than the Acura TL so my expectation were as high. In that regard its way below par. Its fit and finish are somewhere between the Impala and the Camry. As far as value: its pretty good in base form and fair in limited form. The VDC and Bean are now GREAT values in some regions as they are selling below invoice. I think the base Legacy also a good deal now that the Brighton is gone. My wife wanted the OB look so....

My specific complaints:
1) Poor gas mileage. 17 city / 24 highway.
2) 6CD changer broke.
3) Driver side door is now not closing properly.
4) Customer relations from all three dealers we tried was fair at best.

canadiancl

Thanks for the input. Your comment on wind noise is particularly interesting because I agree that on a long trip that could be annoying and tiring. Wonder if that is a characteristic of Outbacks in general? Are you sure you don't have a problem with the window seal in the A pillar area?

We're actually looking at the base Outback rather than the Ltd. The price premium for the Ltd is about $4k CAD. With our provincial and federal sales taxes that would make it almost a $4,700 difference. Too much for our budget. The leather interior would be nice though.

butchanahory2

In message #1129 the city should be Dallas, not callas, I hope you all had a laugh on that one.
Thanks

mjansen1

We have 39K on our 2000 this is my two bits.

1. Brakes squeak on and off. Took to dealer and they said everything is fine.
2. It does not gear down fast enough when passing. I am now used to it, but at first it drove me nuts trying to pass at freeway speeds.
3. Engine noise is minimal, especially compared to other cars I've test driven. Wind noise is a lot at times. Mirrors and racks seems to whistle at high speeds.
4. Alarm is great-- but disengage the stupid horn
5. Tires?
6. Paul Hogan made another movie???

canadiancl

Wind noise appears to be a problem. It's funny that in the first 1130+ posts OB owners didn't really talk about that too much, if at all.

grahampeters

G'day

I had a problem with wind noise and then discovered my four year old had re-engineered the door seals. Problem fixed but persuading him not to repeat the effort was harder.

As a general rule, wind noise around door seals often is fixed by leaving doors and windows open on a hot day. The seals return to factory shape and noises disappear.

Cheers

Graham

rhabash

We are considering the Subaru VDC for our second vehicle and I have been tracking this vehicle through the posts here, as well as, reading various searches in the internet and car magazines at Borders. I must say that these posts have been really helpful in assessing this vehicle and helping us make the right decision. So thanks to all participants!

I have test drove the VDC and both my wife and I like the car and feel it would be the right fit for our family. Things that are of concern are as follows:
1. EMC issue?
2. Getting a good deal in Indiana?
3. Whether or not to wait for the 2002 model?

For as far as Number 1 - I understand from previous posts, from Jim325 and others, that this is a on-issue for vehicles manufactured after February of this year. However, how does the lay person verify such information when talking to the dealer?

For Number 2 - Has anyone purchased the VDC, plus options, in the state of Indiana at Invoice or below? If so, could you please provide me with the name and phone number of the dealership/sales person. beck, I would consider buying from surrounding states such as Illinois, Michigan, Ohio, or Kentucky if the deal is right! My mail address is rhabash@msn.com - any dealers interested please don't hesitate to email me.

Number 3 - Can anyone provide any information on the 2002 VDC? Do you guys think it would be better to wait for this vehicle or there isn't much of a difference between the two?

Thank you in advance.

RJH

francophile

My answers, from one year and 18K miles of Legacy GT ownership:

1. Squeaky brakes - yep. Just the first couple of times they're applied, then it's gone. I don't seem to care about this as much as some folks do, so I might not be the best gauge to use.

2. Stuttering when accelerating. Yup, that too. It's not bad at all, barely noticeable in my opinion. More noticeable in warm weather and when driving gently, but never a big problem of any kind. Your coffee is safe :-)

3. Subies are not vault-like but they are quiet enough, especially cruising on the highways at a steady state. The horizontally opposed engines in Subies impart a "growl" or "grumble" that might be disconcerting to those accustomed to inline 4's or V-6's. I personally like to hear the motor a little bit, especially when I have the throttle wide open, and I think the Legacy strikes a nice balance in this regard.

4. I don't like RWL tires either, never have! Different strokes for different folks. Get the dealer to flip them for you before you take delivery.

5. Don't know what "passive-arming" is. The Legacy factory alarm system has motion sensors and uses the horn as its alarm sound. I don't know what you mean by "auto-relock" unless it is that intensely annoying "feature" found in Chrysler products where the doors all lock as soon as the car starts to move; if so, the Subie does not do that, thank goodness. The LED is in the instrument cluster. You can have the car blink the lights and beep the horn every time you lock/unlock, or you can turn off the horn and just have the lights.

6. I have a great home system and so tend to wait for the video, especially when it's something as un-special as another Hogan yawner ;-)

Cheers,
-wdb

yellowbikedon

Raymond,

If you're willing to travel to the Chicago area, try Liberty Subaru in Libertyville. Speak with Elmer Hansen, Subaru product manager. I have referred nearly a dozen buyers to him because of his fair dealing and excellent prices. I recently bought an LL Bean wagon from Elmer. It was the first H-6 model delievered by Liberty and I can tell you, the engine is really a great improvement over the four cylinder. Much more flexible and responsive. The price was "right." Elmer's phone number is 847.362.2683.

By the way, I do not receive any compensation for suggesting Liberty Subaru. I like the way they conduct their business, their knowledge of the product and their great service ability. I have used the dealership since first purchasing an SVX coupe in '91.

If I can share anything additional with you, please feel free to let me know.

Don

theob

In our VDC we don't hear any wind noise until about 65mph. That's w/ the climate control and stereo off. At about 85+ it becomes noticeable, if you listen for it.

A couple of things that quiet it down is to remove the crossbars (5 minutes to do it, max), and if it's bugging you, close the interior moonroof covers. When you do that, there is very little noise at 80 mph. You have to go substantially faster to really get any noise :-)
HTH,
Theo

nygreg

I finally picked up our new OB last night. Here is the first impression: First the disappointing part - I found 3 things wrong. First, the cargo cover had a damaged plastic piece. The dealer quickly replaced it, so no problem. Second, the brakes pulse. I am hoping this is due from sitting on the lot and will eventually work itself out. A friend just bought an S4 and had the same problem - it went away. Third, I found a crack in the rear corner light. The dealer will replace it at my earliest convience. All else seems fine including a full tank of gas! Ergonomics: Felt very comfortable in the car. The seats are firm, but, I like it (it has AWP). Space between door and seat for seat adjustments is tight, but, workable. Controls are logical and nicely placed with good feel. Standard radio sound is not as bad as expected. It will be OK. Performance: Good low end grunt. Nice sound. On light acceleration, the 1-2 shift is a little short, but, not bothersome. Obviously, I really didn't push it considering the engine had 17 miles on it. Handling is very precise and the car tracked nicely with good feel. It will be nice on the twisties which we have a lot of where I live. Braking seems good - but need to have pulsing brakes addressed. Dealer: Seemed responsive, and somewhat knowledgeable. Showed me most of the basics but didn't get into a lot of detail. Car had a full tank. 3500 mile service is free. Loaner cars available. One turn-off, he gave me a copy of the satisfaction survey I will be getting to review and all of the Very Satisfiy's and Satisfy's were highlighted - definite guidance. Gave my DH the car for today since she will be doing a lot of running around. I will get her input tonight......on the car. I get it tomorrow.

Thanks for all of your input and great knowledge.
-Greg

P.S. Spent last night RTFM. Some cool stuff.