Subaru Legacy/Outback

raybear

Try shopping the price a bit. Rachel Schnoor at Auburn [(253) 854-2505] has helped me find some decent deals on new cars, and there are others out there. Doesn't sound bad, though.

canadiancl

to all who took time to answer my concerns. This has to be the friendliest board on Edmunds!

To Francofile, passive-arming is when you don't have to push the remote button to arm the car. Usually it's programmed so when all the doors are closed, the system will arm itself after 15 - 30 seconds. The feature that I really like is "auto-relock". This feature will re-arm and relock the car after 15 - 30 seconds if it was unlocked/disarmed using the remote but none of the doors is opened. This is to prevent the owner from inadvertently disarming/unlocking the car. I had a '95 Maxima that did not have this feature. And a couple times when it was parked outside the office, I accidentally unlocked it when I had the remote in my pocket and bumped it against something.

nygreg

After getting my OB yesterday and spending last night RTFM, I read that the Subaru security system can be programmed for passive-arming. It is essentially a connection made by the kick panel on the drivers side. My car was not configured this way, therefore, I need to engage the alarm by pressing the fob. I prefer it this way, so it is OK. I will try to get more specifics tonight when I can read it again. Also, what I found cool was that you can program the car to respond with up to 4 different fobs.

-Greg

sibbald

Raymond, I agree with Theo, if you remove the cross bars wind noise is not a big problem as it was with my 97 Outback. I often travel the Inland Hwy at 120 clicks and only really notice it when there is a cross wind blowing.

I had the dealer install the subaru security system. It was about $225.00 and you should keep an eye on where they put the flashing red light. Obviously they are not going to rip out the dash which would be the ideal place but you still want it visible from the outside driver's window. There is a small access door to the right side of the steering column. The mechanic used this for access and put the light in just above the door. I would rather have it in the dash but this is O.K.

The other things you talked about like auto-relock would drive me nuts! I hate it when things get so automated that you no longer have to think, because then you don't.

Cheers, Tom

canadiancl

I always thought the flashing red LED was already pre-installed in the instrument cluster (ie. like one of the warning lights in the dash). Not true? Wonder if there is a difference between US and Can versions, or between 2000 & 2001 models?
So in your case, they ended up putting the light on top of the steering column?

I'm glad to hear that wind noise may not be such a big deal 'cause on a long trip, that, as much as anything, would drive me insane.

I agree automation could become excessive (ie. now some cars have feature that would apply the brake for you if you tailgate too close!) but that auto-relock on the alarm gives me peace of mind, especially if you often have to park in an unsecured area.

sibbald

Raymond, my system was installed in December of 1999. I think the mechanic was looking for an easy site to install the LED. It ended up below the instrument cluster in the dash above the access door. As much as I enjoy the cold weather package, it would have been nice if the Canadian version had come with the security system pre-installed.

I would also like to know if the LED had been pre-installed in the dash of the 2000 Canadian models. If so, I would consider going back to the dealer to have it changed.

Cheers, Tom

armac13

I can't comment on the Outback, but the LED is in the instrument cluster (pre-installed) in my Forester. I'd be very surprised if it were different in your OB.

Ross

subearu

in our '00 OB is in the bottom center of the dash. However, I don't have the security system upgrade installed - just the standard keyless entry. In fact, if I recall, doesn't it say SECURITY next to it?

-Brian

goosegog

My 12,000 km impressions of my 00 OB 5spd:

Wind noise: quiet at legal speeds in Canada. I think it all comes from mirrors and crossbars (certainly not doors/windows).

Engine noise: very quiet and smooth for a 4. If you have the stereo on, even low, you can't tell if the engine is idling. Low growl on hard acceleration.

Power: pulls well at low rpm, will go up fairly steep hills in 4th at 50kph (about 1600rpm). Tows our 1000lb tent trailer with no problem.

Brakes: no noises.

Reliability: Check Engine light came on a few times, traced to loose hose on fuel vent system under right rear of car.

Recall just issued for ECU. We have no apparent problems but will get it checked.

Tires: OK but RWL seems to be coming off on one.

AWD: awesome! Very stable in the wet or slippery conditions, even towing.

Transmission: No problems.

Interior: my personal bugbear is no light for ign switch. Space between door and driver's seat controls is too tight. Sound system (single CD) good enough (get tweeter kit if you play CDs). Seats are fabric and OK but I get electrocuted every time I exit the car and then touch the door to close it. Comfy enough on our road trip around BC last fall. Back head restraints too low for tall people. No pockets in back of seats. No variable delay on wipers. No delay on rear wiper (but we hardly use it as we have the body coloured spoiler which keeps the window pretty clean). Plastic interior seems to scratch easily (bottom of doors and in luggage area).

Bumpers: paint scratches off easily and as it is black underneath it shows.

Overall, we are happy with it. A very solid feeling car with great AWD. The heated seats, mirrors and washers are great in cold climates, but a bit wasted on us here in SW BC, aka Lotusland.

ateixeira

Congrats Greg. Glad to hear the dealer was attentive to getting it perfect, too.

-juice

lakota

I'll keep it short.
Got a 99 OB Limited auto.
Very nice overall and would probably buy again, but just b/c my wife doesn't like the large SUVs. Just a couple of problems for us:

1. Terrible gas mileage - everyone said that it just takes time for the engine to break in, but at 45K we're only getting about 15-17 mpg.
2. Coasting down the mountains at 65-70mph, it kicks in 3rd gear automatically skyrocketing the rpms. Only way to get it out is to switch to neutral and then back to drive.
3. We'd buy the 6 if we do buy again. Acceleration is key in the mountains.

Quick question.

What's the maximum towing weight for this car?

jim235

First of all I love my VDC and think it is an excellent choice. Re:

1. You can find out when a vehicle was manufactured by getting the VIN # and calling Subaru customer service. Or ask the dealer for the date when the vehicle arrived on the lot and how long it takes for a vehicle to arrive when it's ordered from the factory.

In late February 2001 the new ECM's were reprogrammed to correct the cold start problem - according to emails to me from Subaru technical services. Subaru customer service however has provided contradictory information on how widespread the problem is in the earlier H6 ECM's, and even what the problem is. Subaru told at least one dealer that all the ECM's were defective and that there would be a recall to correct the problem - which only starts becoming apparent at temperatures of 20-30 and colder. When I contacted Subaru customer service myself about getting a replacement ECM for my VDC, which was manufactured in November 2000, they told me I did not have a problem. They claimed it was a 'cold starting' problem that would occur at 'any temperature' when the vehicle hadn't been started for awhile, and that if I hadn't noticed a problem I didn't have one. The said it was a defect in some, but not all, of the older ECM's and that there would be no recall of the older ECM's. When I asked what changes had been made then in February, and why, customer service said they would check w/technical services. When they called back they said they were told that that information could not be provided and seemed somewhat embarrassed that they were not allowed access to this information. Based on this seeming lack of candor, I'd recommend ensuring that the one you buy was manufactured in March 2001 or later.

2. Can't help there, but there were posts that Fitzgerald in MD and Pennsylvania was having a sale on Outback's for $800 under invoice and after the sale would be selling for $450 under invoice.

3. The dealer I bought from claimed he checked w/SOA and there would be no changes at all in the VDC Outback for 2002, but there would be a 1% ($300) price increase. Based on this a post February 2001 VDC would seem to be the way to go, especially with all the end of model year sales (2002's VDC's are supposed to arrive in late June or early July according to the same dealer).
Hope this helps. Jim

canadiancl

how, or why, they can sell at that much under invoice. Even with the holdback, do they make any money?

sibbald

I think in Canada we must have a different instrument cluster. Even with a flashlight, I am unable to locate anything to do with the LED security light.

Without a flashlight, I am able to see the words "fuel door>" just above the clock which doesn't do anything. Must say I have often wondered if it does something on other models and did I just get a left over cluster?

Cheers, Tom

p.s. Thanks Ross, loved the California wine at cheap prices (eg. 1997 Gallo of Sonoma Cab. Sauv., $7.99 U.S., Canada $23.95).

FrankMc

however their PA branches are only Toyota and Nissan at the moment.
Frank

ateixeira

lakota: 15-17mpg is the worst I've ever heard of on a Subie. Something is off-spec, the tires, alignment, or engine. That can't be right.

Check the plugs, plug wires, fuel filters, injectors, stuff like that. It's still under warranty, right?

The 3rd gear on long down hills is for engine braking. Otherwise you could bake the brakes.

Towing capacity is 1000 pounds, 2000 pounds if your trailer has brakes.

Dealers make their profits on service, not so much sales. Even used car sales have higher margins.

-juice

mtnshopper

Just have to say, I grinned when I saw the little fuel door arrow on my dash. A nice touch that is appreciated by me because several months ago, during a particularly stressful time, I was forgetting everything. Forgot to feed the dog one morning. Forgot to uncover the bird cages a couple of mornings and left the poor birds in the dark all day. And several times I pulled up to the wrong side of the gas pump because I'd spaced out on which side the gas cap was located on my Mazda...even though I'd been fueling it for nearly 13 years!

My first fillup on the Bean got 20.94 mpg, about 2/3 city driving and 1/3 highway. I was pleased because I was expecting much less.

Becky

francophile

Are you sure about that mileage, are you certain it wasn't 20.941 or 20.939? Pardon me, I'm just making a little fun with your choice of decimal places.

As for forgetfulness, I forgot to put a filter in the coffee pot today before putting the coffee into it, duh. Where was my head.

Cheers,
-wdb

mtnshopper

Actually, it was 20.94285. I'm very detail oriented. Balance my checkbook to the penny. :-)

nematode

That 15mpg number may not be that far off. I got 16-17mpg driving around Pittsburgh (hills). Based on my experience the OB gets 17-18city here in the midwest so 15-16mpg is not that far off if someone is pulling hills.

nematode

2k Outback Ltd. 26k miles.

You can add two more trips to the dealer to my list. So far that makes:
1) Check engine light. May have been gas cap or could have been O2 sensor.
2) O2 sensor recalled. Replaced.
3) Jammed 6CD changer. Replaced. Have to wait for Panasonic/Subaru t send back the CD that were in there.
3a) 4 days later broken 6CD changer. Replaced.
4) Window seals replaced for letting in water and not sealing properly.
5) Drivers side door is being adjusted again for not closing properly.
6) Now the radio (not the 6CD changer this time) is broken.

The little problems have REALLY started to really annoy me now.

lakota

I know the mileage is horrible, but it's a lease that ends in Sept, so I'm not putting a dime into it unless I buy it. The warranty was up at 36K.

Our normal driving is just around Denver.

Unfortunately we had a bad experience buying it at Valley Subaru in Longmont, CO. We bought into the service contract. At the time of sale, they referred to the interval services offered by their service shop as what the service contract consisted of. It looked good (wifes car, don't have to deal with maintenance). In reality the service contract consists of maintenance as described in the owner's manual. They didn't want to change the air filter till 30k miles. I changed it myself at 18K and it was full of black goo. Therefore, I'm not dealing with this car unless I get in a bad situation and have to buy it.

Still, not a bad car, just a bad dealer. I assume the mileage would be better if it had been taken care of.

raybear

You're being too harsh. The service contract was being honored, you expected too much. Normally I side with the consumer, but in this case you're in the wrong. Sorry.

ateixeira

You actually round off interest to the nearest penny? ;-)

nematode: that stinks. Sorry yours seems to continue to have problems.

Do you know I've never been to the dealer for a repair? Just once for a recall, but that's it, and it was running fine.

-juice

sibbald

Poured in six cups of water, put in coffee and filter, turned on coffee maker, placed coffee pot on counter and went back to bed to listen to the news. Ugh....
Wife definately not impressed!

Fuel door - O.K. I am a little slow, I thought it should light up when the door was left insecure as we do not have a locking gas cap.
Even though every car I have owned has had the fuel door on the right side, I now have a little reminder.

Cheers, Tom

nygreg

Did you ever do something you knew would be stupid, but, did it anyway to see. I call it Premeditated Stupidity. The fact that I have a name for it tells you where I'm at!

How about putting the pot on the stove and going away without turning on the heat? Or turning the heat on the wrong burner? Or forgetting to turn off the BBQ?

-Greg

jim235

I thought I would share a problem and a possibly easy solution in case anyone else has a similar experience. I have a new 2001 Outback VDC which I drove back up to Alaska over some marginal muddy and snowy roads. I also live at the end of a steep dirt road that has just passed through winter break up. The car has always had an extremely smooth ride and great handling but just recently it turned 'squirrelly' on me.

The weather here had finally warmed up enough to wash the car, which had a thick layer of dirt. As part of the wash I spent about 5 minutes per wheel flushing out the wheels and wheel wells until they ran clear and then washed and waxed the outer wheel surfaces. Shortly thereafter my wife, who had just started driving the car to work, told me that the whole car now vibrated and that the empty passenger seat shuddered and rattled dramatically at highway speeds. I suspected some connection to my intense washing of the wheels, but couldn't make any logical connection at that time. I drove the car and noticed a dramatic difference in ride and handling. The vibrations became noticeable at about 45-50 mph and became dramatic and the handling alarmingly 'squirrelly' at about 65-70 mph. The car did not pull in either direction when I let go of the wheel or braked. Based on information from the list on how touchy the Outback's are to variations in tire pressure, the first thing I did was check the tire pressure, which turned out to be fine. Eyeballing the wheel alignment also turned up nothing noticeable. My next guess was possibly a loose engine mount. I took it in to the shop to have it checked.

The mechanic who took it for a test drive with me immediately guessed that the problem was that the rear wheels were out of balance. (He said the steering column didn't vibrate enough for it to be either of the front wheels). He guessed that the cause was either a lost balance weight or mud build up on the inside of the rear wheels. Examining the wheels on the rack at the shop it was apparent that the rear wheels still had some dried mud caked on the inside and it was obvious what had happened.

When I had hosed all wheels from the outside until the water ran clear I had successfully removed all mud from the interior of the front wheels but unknowingly had still left an uneven cement like layer around much of the inner part of the more heavily coated rear wheels. Prior to washing, the caked dirt was evenly distributed around the inside of all the wheels, and the wheels remained in perfect balance . After washing, an uneven layer of caked dirt remained in the rear wheels and the wheels were severely unbalanced.

I drove the car home from the shop, pulled both rear wheels off, chipped out the remaining dirt with an ice scraper, scrubbed the insides, waxed them, put the wheels back on, test drove it on the highway from 0 to 90 mph and Wallah! Smooth as silk once again!

kens

Jim,

Yep, I've had the same thing happen with ice buildup on my Forester rims. One thing that may help is waxing your wheels. Sounds kind of funny, but it will prevent mud/ice from sticking in the first place.

Also, it's not completely unheard of for a wheel to throw a weight and put it out of balance. It's not a bad idea to have your wheel balance checked everytime you rotate them.

Ken

canadiancl

OB does not have a locking gas cap??

phowell

Juice i get the #=*3# shocked out of me in all my cars with cloth seats but the 97 subaru with leather doesnt, How can I stop the others last pm you could see sparks when I got out and touched the door

subearu

When I exit any vehicle, before I place my feet on the ground, I touch some metal part of the door jam with my left hand and then release it after I'm out of the vehicle. 99% of the time, this eliminates the zap.

There are other ways of eliminating the zap you might get, but this one is 'free'.

-Brian

vince14

sorry for your problems, nematode, I just broke 40k on my2k OB limited wagon and I've had my 6 cd changer replaced, and a rear speaker replaced, but not much else. I alway percieve a certain amount of vibration in the car, the tranny doesn't always shift smoothly and the rear cover rattles (open and closed) much less noisier when its removed but I guess I'm still happy with the car. It performed very well this past winter in the snow and its a reliable, comfortable, good looking ride. At 26k, the service visits don't seem too far out of the ordinary, though losing the radio is really frustrating. Driving 140 miles per day, I wouldn't be able to handle it. Hang in there, though,for the long haul, I think you will be pleased with the reliability. Regards all,
Vince14

kturner1

Haven't seen a lot of posts on the power of Subies lately but thought I'd chip in. Let's face it, the H4 165 hp in a 3,300 lb car isn't a particularly potent combination. My previous vehicle was a 190 hp Cherokee with towing gears that flat jumped off the line. In my first month of Subie ownership though, I have found that power is not an issue for me. Since the car handles so well, I don't slow down much through curves. Subies are powered by momentum.

WMarton

We finally did the deed and bought a VDC last Friday at Fitzgerald's (checks in the mail juice!). I have a question about the auto climate control system: When I dial down the temperature to the lowest setting (65F), the panel indicates that the AC is on, but the vents blow hot air. To date, I haven't been able to get the vehicle to cool under any circumstance, e.g., start with auto climate control on, drive for a while before engaging the system, tried econ, manual, and just about everything that I could think of. Am I doing something wrong? If I am, it certainly isn't a very "automatic" climate control system.

Bill

hammersley

Sounds like the a/c compressor isn't activating. If there's no cold air at all, that's the most obvious possibility.

Cheers!
Paul

ateixeira

Congrats, Bill.

I'll see Garry on Sunday at the Covered Bridge Tour - are you coming? Details are at www.subaruclub.com.

As agreed, I'll get you the first year's membership free (it's normally $20). After that, renewal is just $15 a year, and you get discounts for parts and prices at dozens of dealers, plus a quarterly newsletter.

Any how, enjoy the VDC, and I hope we can meet on Sunday.

-juice

goosegog

The gas cap doesn't lock but the door does. Same as my previous car.

Goosegog

canadiancl

I thought you meant the door isn't lockable.

kens

The gas cap and fuel door doesn't lock on the Forester.

I avert getting zapped by using my key to touch the exterior of door to discharge any static electricity.

Going fast in a straight line isn't impressive. Going fast on the twisities is what Subies are all about!

Ken

vincer2

brakes started squealing at about 18k. 2 co-workers with same model and similar mileage have similar problem. squealing sound tends to decrease after several stops when the brakes have "warmed up".

is this being caused by fine steel strands in pads that dissipate the heat? if so why didn't they squeal when the car was new? any other suggestions?

thanks for any assistance.
Vince

subearu

Our OB also had that famous squeak. It typically occured first thing in the morning, during the first few stops. Sometimes it would go away sooner, sometimes not so quick. During my first oil change, I mentioned this to the dealer. They cleaned the pads and all was fine. I believe it's referred to as 'glazing'. The pads are made of a harder substance to make them last longer. That harder substance contributes to the glazing.

Others have also mentioned to give the brakes a good firm use occasionally to clear up any glazing. That seems to work fine for me. As I back out of our driveway each morning, I apply a steady firm pedal. I haven't had the brake squeak since that oil change (knocking on wood).

-Brian

nygreg

Went to the dealer today to get my brand new OB looked at for pulsing brakes and broken rear light. Very pleasant experience. Even though I was 1/2 hour late, they were expecting me and took me right away. Replaced both front rotors, and cleaned up the rear to make sure. Replaced the light in 15 minutes, <2 hrs total. Still concerned as to why a rotor on a brand new car was warped. Tight lug nuts?? Anyway, decided I needed the hood deflector when I found a very small nick from driving through some construction. Anyone install one? Do I need to drill? Hope not.

Thanks,
-Greg

subearu

No drilling is required for the hood deflector. It's an easy install. The deflector is secured to the hood by two clips on the hood itself (clips to the edge of the hood, the 'points' just inside of the headlights) and two screws under the hood (the holes are already there - about 5 inches from the side maybe behind the rubber stripping).

The included instructions aren't the greatest. Let me know if you need more info - I'll be glad to help as much as I can!

-Brian

nygreg

Thanks..Does Subaru paint chip easier than other manufacturers?. I was suprised to see this small chip so early. But, who knows how hard the pebble hit it.

I'll let you know if I need more help. Thanks again.

-Greg

subearu

just before I got the deflector on, I also got a small chip in the area that would have been protected by the deflector. That first chip is always the worst! If it could have only waited 1 more day - I would have had the deflector on!

Get some touch-up paint if you haven't already. Treat those chips as soon as you can. As far as applying the touch-up paint, I'm no good at it - I just get enough paint in there to cover the chip and don't worry about how smooth it looks. I think someone mentioned that using a toothpick instead of the supplied brush sometimes works better. As far as Subaru paint chipping easily: this is my first Subie - seems like every new car I've had always get a chip sooner or later on the hood. It's inevitable!

-Brian

nygreg

Just bummed since the car only has 250 miles on it. Chip is very small. OCD? Anyway, I will get to the dealer ASAP to get the deflector. Thanks for your help.

-Greg

hondafriek

As for chipping I do not think Subaru are any worse or better than any other manufacturer, If the stone was thrown by a car in front it does not take much imagination to imagine the velocity at which the stone was travelling.

The hood guard was the very first thing that went on my GT. as soon as I hit the driveway the tools were out and hood guard was on, as Brian said it is an easy install.

Cheers Pat.

hondafriek

I can feel your pain I only had the GT one day when a large piece of ice fell on the roof and left quite a dent, luckily I was able to add the cargo strips for the roof and cover up the dent that way, I did not want to have roof painted the dent is still there but at least I cannot see it out of sight out of mind as they say.

Cheers Pat.

shtevey

Hello - I just bought myself a '97 outback ltd today and wouldn't you know it, a fuse for the running/tail lights seems to be shorting. Essentially it refuses to turn off. So on my first day with the car I come out of work to a dead battery. I've removed the fuse (in engine bay fuse-box) for now. Can anyone suggest a course of action to remedy this problem? I've tried disconnecting the battery post but when I re-connect them after the fuse has been re-inserted the lights go on again.

Much appreciated.

subearu

there's a toggle switch on the top of the steering column - it operates the running lights when the ignition is off. perhaps that is switched on. try that (I'm almost positive this will fix it).

-Brian