Subaru Legacy/Outback

brownwj · December 2003

I have an 01 LL Bean and it does not seen that my seat heaters work very well if at all. I do not really feel heat coming from them. If you feel the seats after you have been sitting on them for 10 minutes they seem luke warm but I am not sure if that is just body heat that has transferred to the seats.

I have not gone to Subaru with the problem. However, I have an 02 Avalon and the Avalon seats are are so much warmer, it is really noticeable.

Does anybody else have that problem? How do the seat warmers work compared to heaters on other cars you own.

c_hunter · December 2003

The heaters on my LL Bean are not as hot as the ones on our Forester, but they are hot enough for me. I usually put them on high when I first get in the car, then switch to low after 5-10 minutes, and then turn them off shortly after. So they definitely work. Both the seat and the lumbar area are heated.

Does the switch light come on? Are both seats the same? Any difference between high and low? There could be a wiring problem (maybe something disconnected) or it's possible the fuse has blown.

Craig

sebberry · December 2003

I second Craig's motion...

The warmers are fairly noticable, they definately do the job.

Have your car checked by the dealer because they make the differece in the winter.

leo2633 · December 2003

I agree with Craig. The seat heaters in my '01 Forester get MUCH warmer than the ones in my wife's '03 Outback.

Len

andrewk · December 2003

The weather here in Indiana has turned colder in the last month or so. I have become increasingly concerned about a thumping, knocking or "clatter" coming from our '03 Legacy when the engine is cold. We checked the oil level since it was recently changed and found, if anything, there may be too much.

This noise is disturbing to me. It does seem to go away when it warms up. How common is it and/or how concerned should I be about it?

Thanks, Andy

pathtomax · December 2003

What a great storm up in the Northeast this weekend! I live in Seacoast NH so there is a good 12+ inches now!

My Outback Ltd did a great job. This is a '01 4EAT and there is only a little slippage when really pushed into the snow. I had the first "true" Outback from 1996 many years ago in a 5-speed manual. With the 5-speed it seemed to handle a little better in the snow if that is possible. I know there has been a lot of discussion about the differences in the AWD mechanisms between the auto and the manual- just what I have noticed.

Clatter- I have the clatter every morning. I drive 50 miles each way to work in mostly highway- that little clatter just reminds me every morning that I am driving my trusty Subaru!

aviatorvisa · December 2003

I've got a 2001 Limited. The driver's side seat heater works fine but the passenger side went out. The dealer replaced the switch, the seat will get warm but nowhere close to what it used to be. I've checked fuses and connections that I can get at but haven't found anything obvious. I'm going to bring it in later this week to have it looked at again.

zman3 · December 2003

"but he is saying that it is the best-time to get a nwer model before mine starts to lose value."

It's a little late for that. I am guessing that you have probably already absorbed the biggest hit.

otis123 · December 2003

My 2001 LLBean (52K miles) seat heaters work fine. Hi setting works after a minute or two, and have to step down to the low setting after around 5 minutes - and turn them off if it's above 30 outside. The passenger side light on the switch died this summer ~ 48K miles. First light to go - no, second - headlight went after a year ~ 18K miles...

Would like a stronger passenger wiper heater element, though. The passenger wiper freezes up too soon - even with the delay set to try and warm it up (I know, it is just for initially unfreezing the wipers). You would think car manufacturers would have figured out how to heat wipers up in sub-freezing weather - send some hot air directly on the wipers maybe? Although that would probably cause icing...

Ralph

feilo · December 2003

I am doing some research for my non-Subie wagon (sorry for interloping ....) and would appreciate some light shed on
(1) how the rear window deflector - not spoiler - attaches to the body,
and (2) does it work i.e. keep the dust off the rear windo? TIA.

ptrekker · December 2003

I too have noticed less clatter. First, I thought it was the snow on the hood, but as that melted, I realized the clatter has piped down.

But man to these things cut through snow like a hot knife through butter?

gearhead4 · December 2003

I experience cold temperature "clatter" on my 2003 Legacy. The sound is to "heavy" to be valves. I think it is wrist pin or piston slap noise on one cylinder only. The sound does go away after the engine reaches full operating temperature and I don't hear the sound at all if air temperature is above 50 degrees farenheit.

My last Legacy (MY2000) did not make such a sound, so I don't think is is normal or acceptable.

Now that I have accumulated over 1000 miles, I don't think this is a break in issue. This sound is not going away by itself, so Subaru will have to fix it. It's going to the dealer next week.

I wonder how long the dealer will take to repair this internal engine problem.

-Jim

blackbean · December 2003

They gave me a 2003 Limited as my loaner yesterday - it was 20 degrees out and I thought there was bunch of sloose bolts and parts rattling around in a mixing bowl when I started that thing up! The clatter went away for the most part after 15 minutes. The loaner had 4,700 miles on it, so I am guessing that sound is there to stay. I was sure glad to get my Bean back later in the day - the H^ is very quiet by comparison! Also, the 4EAT is just a bad combo with the H4!
Matt :-)

bat1161 · December 2003

Actually I have my 2000 OB at the dealer now so that they can try and reproduce the noise in the morning. Of course so far it has not. My dealer is good though - he insisted on keeping it for another day or so to try and replicate the issue. In the meantime, I'm in a new Nissan Sentra -it's not bad, but I miss my Subaru. I can't wait for when they are authorised to do loaners, instead of rentals. (I guess they have to receive approval from SOA to do loaners?)

Mark

andrewk · December 2003

Everything was set for today to purchase the '00 Outback that I had posted about on this thread. Unfortunately, the deal fell through! There was a Toyota mini-van the seller had lined up to purchase, but it was in an accident Tuesday and his wife no longer wants it. The seller felt really bad and apologized repeatedly to me for backing out. He did say that he would call me when he does get ready to sell the Outback. I am very bummed, but there is nothing I can do about it. Oh well, it relieves the pressure of selling my truck in a big hurry.

Thanks again for everyone's assistance!

bat1161 · December 2003

Andrew,

Things have a way of working out. You'll get there eventually.

Mark

bat1161 · December 2003

Just received a call from my dealer. It turns out that a harness went up front (I'm not sure which one - I'll find out when I pick it up tomorrow). When I mentioned the "clatter" the dealer said all Subarus do that, but that was not my problem. They are now getting authorization to cover it under the extended warranty.
Between this, and the vent blower they were replacing, it seems like a good investment on the Gold warranty.

Mark

ateixeira · December 2003

Cool Mark. My wife has a 7/100 Gold, too.

Bummer Andrew.

-juice

barc · December 2003

I have an 02 Legacy with the clatter when cold. Clatter is worse under load, and not too bad at idle. Goes away once warm. I don't think many of my neighbors would run out to buy a Subaru after hearing my car drive by them. Piston slap theory is most likely since the pistons take a while to warm up and expand a bit, plus the skirts are short too. My friend built a subaru engine for his airplane and had longer skirt pistons made, it doesn't clatter!. But I must say I do like the car alot, want to keep it, but if I had to sell it, could be a hard sell to most people. My advice to Subaru is to lengthen the piston skirts as much as possible, so what if it loses a few HP. Otherwise the car is excellent. Mine has 42000kms now.

vetmats · December 2003

How much should I expect to pay for a 7/100 Gold Warranty?

Around $1000?

xcskier1 · December 2003

My 2002 Legacy GT use to have a severe engine clatter for about 10 minutes after start up. The dealer replaced the timing belt tensioner under warranty and that fixed it!

barc · December 2003

They replaced my belt tensioner at 24,000 kms and it made very little difference. I think a bad tensioner makes a belt slapping the timing cover sound which I think I might have had. Clatter started around 12,000 kms. Has anyone had one of these engines apart? May be a good idea to remove the left belt cover(3 bolts) and check the belt tension on cold days. I think the tensioner has a habit of losing pressure when cold and I think it's nitrogen filled. How many kms on yours xcskier?

jlemole · December 2003

I got my 5/100 for $1,000 at the dealer I bought my car from. Other dealers wanted substantially more than that. Shop around, but your best price may come from your original dealer, especially if he's interested in keeping your business the next time around.

Jon

pathtomax · December 2003

I had the same result. I found the 5/100 for $1100 at my original dealer. I shopped around to three other dealerships and all charged retail but one. The lower price was not from my original dealer, I called them about it and they matched the prices. Really, call outside of your area as well, they only need your VIN # !!

xcskier1 · December 2003

When the timing belt tensioner was replaced on my car, it had 27,700 km. on the odometer

ateixeira · December 2003

$1000-1300 sounds about right.

Someone said they paid $700 for a 7/70 for an Outback IIRC, that is an unbelievable deal.

Turbos cost more, I think.

-juice

hoodatbe · December 2003

so - i'm looking to buy an '04 and am torn. after 5yrs of an automatic, i just test drove the 5-speed limited and realized how much i missed the manual transmission. i have yet to try the H6 and, after reading these posts, am concerned that if i do i may be hooked. i use these wagons like pickups, have been known to haul lots and heavy loads. but primarily, i commute two hrs a day. so i want something comfortable (thus tha leathah wi'da heated seats,) and something fun to drive. any advice y'all might have for me would be greatly appreciated. oh and pls forgive me for posting in two groups, ah'm aiming to buy in the next couple wks and am looking for speedy feedback.

c_hunter · December 2003

I used to own an H4/5-spd Outback and now own an LL Bean Outback with H6/auto. The H4/5-spd is a lot of fun to drive, and the combination is plenty peppy. H6/auto is more refined, and very smooth and quiet. When you need the power, get on the gas and it will downshift and pull very strongly (all while being very smooth and cool sounding). I get the same or better gas mileage with the H6/auto, by the way.

Do yourself a favor and drive the H6. It will give you a better appreciation for the engine, and help you better decide whether you want to go for more power and refinement (H6/auto) or more fun (H4/5-spd).

Craig

c_hunter · December 2003

I am thankful for the auto whenever I get stuck in stop&go traffic during my commute, which happens 6-7 times a month. Not that often compared to what some folks deal with, but still can be a hassle. I also have a 5-spd WRX, and that can be a pain to drive in traffic.

Something to keep in mind if you commute in traffic.

Craig

vetmats · December 2003

I traded in a '00 5spd Outback for an '03 H6 in August. The H6 is much quieter, especially for long commutes. I had gotten used to the high engine revs (~3500) at highway speeds in the 5spd, which made the car quite noisy. The H6 stays below 3000rpm on the highway, and you can only hear the engine when you accelerate to pass.

I agree with the comments of c_hunter. However, I would suggest not driving an H6 if you're not prepared to get hooked.

ateixeira · December 2003

Any manual is more fun, in a way, since you have more direct control. The 2.5l is pretty torquey and with a 5 speed is entertaining.

The H6 is super smooth, you can barely hear it idle, and is all about relaxed luxury, not brute force. It doesn't feel quicker, but it is.

If you can wait until April, the new 2005 model will be out. They'll get Sportshift trannies, i.e. a manually controlled automatic, that might be the perfect compromise for someone like you.

Can't wait? Then consider a Legacy 2.5GT, which has a 4 speed Sportshift now, mated to the 2.5l engine.

Better yet, since you said you use it like a pickup, consider a Baja turbo. You can get that torque monster (235 lb-ft) with a 5 speed manual or the 4 speed Sportshift auto. That's quicker than any Outback, even the H6.

Yet another option would be a Forester turbo, but the auto mated to that one does not get Sportshift.

The 2.5l turbo engine is actually a de-tuned WRX STi engine, not a built-up 2.5l from the regular Outback. You get forged pistons, reinforced tranny gearsets, and a semi-closed deck block. Seriously over-engineered stuff.

Drive a few of these and see what you like. Buy the one that brings you the widest grin. :-)

-juice

bkaiser1 · December 2003

I had an '01 Outback for 55K miles with the 4cyl/5sp combo and was always amazed at how well it pulled. It could be loaded to the roof inside with gear and have a full load up top and still cruise easily in 5th gear in the mountains.

Having since traded the car for a WRX, I really have begun to miss the torque that Outback had in city driving...around town (low rpms) the H4/5sp Outback feels reasonably peppy, where my WRX just feels flat sometimes.

I've not driven an H6 equipped Subaru since they are auto-only, but you should certainly compare the two powertrains carefully. My experience with the Outback left me pretty satisfied with the 4cyl engine overall.

Brian

hoodatbe · December 2003

. . . for so kindly sharing your thoughts on my little conundrum. ah'm going to test the H6, but also the legacy GT - didn't realize it sports the sportshift feature and cannot wait to see what its like! while my commute is long, it is also beautiful and traffic-free, it's the driving 'round town that may send me to that auto trans . . . anyway - thanks again - beth

ateixeira · December 2003

Good luck shopping. Keep us posted and then join the Subaru Crew once you get it! We're a great resource. :-)

-juice

green_ob · December 2003

This morning, I brought my 02 Outback (auto) in for the 30K service. Seemed a little pricey at $440 but they'll do everything the maintainance manual says should be done.

However, they 'recommended' that the front and back differentials should also be serviced ($100). It seems that they just replace the differential fluid. Is that necessary ? I don't recall seeing that in the manual.

Also, how often does the coolant need to be changed ?

otis123 · December 2003

I have the H6. I did the coolant at 30K and the diff. fluids at 45K (following my Subaru mechanic's advice). He was right, differ. fluids were "very clean - like new" at 45K, so I would wait - unless you drove it hard or didn't own it to know how it was driven... Coolant is a no-brainer every 30K.

Ralph

ateixeira · December 2003

Change it early if you: tow, off-road, or haul heavy loads regularly. Basically if you feel like you put the tranny under stress a lot.

-juice

subah6 · December 2003

I have had the 2.5lt 5 speed manual Outback and it was a real hoot. I then went to the H6 Outback and as others have stated, this is a real smooth and refined car with quite a bit of power, but the 4 speed auto I thought was a bit of a dog and seemed to strangle the engine somewhat. Good, but I missed the manual 2.5.

I have since bought the NEW Outback H6 3.0R (which is already available here in Oz). This car is fantastic. The new 5 speed sportshift auto and the 180kw (240hp) motor are brilliant. Do yourself a favour and wait for the new spec Outback H6 to arrive in the U.S. You won't be disappointed.

jlemole · December 2003

My rear diff fluid was pretty gray and cloudy at 30k miles. The front was still clear. So, in my experience, changing the diffy fluids at the 30k service is good preventative maintenance.

Jon

c_hunter · December 2003

Thanks for the info!! I've pretty much committed to keeping my H6 wagon a long time (since I bought a WRX as my 2nd car) but the 05 models look awesome.

Do you have any pics of your car? We've all seen the official photos, but it would be intersting to see pictures of someone's actual vehicle.

thanks,
Craig

subah6 · December 2003

Craig,

I do have a digital camera but haven't taken pictures yet. How do I post them to this site and where do they go?

herzogtum71 · December 2003

I am considering buying an outback wagon. Mainly I'm curious about the cargo room compared to the '04. Thanks.

stever · December 2003

You need a place to host the pics since you can't just upload them to Edmunds. There's some posting info in Town Hall Help linked in the left sidebar.

Also linked on the left is the Subaru Chat. Come join us in 1.5 hours or so for live give and take (we give and ModBob takes it <g>).

Steve, Host

c_hunter · December 2003

I can easily host 5-6 pics on my website if you want, you can e-mail them to me at craig.hunter(at)cox.net. Just replace the (at) with @ and you'll be good to go (my feeble attempt to avoid spam).

Craig

johntracker · December 2003

You are welcome to look at these pics of my 3.0R if you have not seen them already

http://www.imagestation.com/album/?id=4288457513

John

subearu · December 2003

Is that an amber colored key-ring light on there? I thought the current Legacy had a green lit one.

-Brian

hypov · December 2003

Wow John, it's fast even standing still ;-)

240Km/h @ 7750rpm

-Dave

subearu · December 2003

Is that an amber colored key-ring light on there? I thought the current Legacy had a green lit one.

-Brian

c_hunter · December 2003

Great pictures, thanks for sharing. This new wagon looks so much better than the previous generation!

Craig

ateixeira · December 2003

Should be incrementally bigger. I should measure at the show.

Gotta take a level and a tape measure. I want to see if the seats fold flat (really flat).

-juice

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