Subaru Outback VDC

subaru_team · October 2001

Good Morning. I checked our records and I do not see a case file for you. Have you called our 800 number? If yes, please let me know? Once we get involved, I'm sure we can address your concerns.

Thanks!

Patti

ateixeira · October 2001

My cousin and dad both bought their Outbacks from Fitz, and indeed both get service there, too. Not sure about service prices, but neither has changed dealers because of that.

I had sent another referral there, and none of the three complained about their sales experience. Maybe is was an honest mistake?

VDC prices? I've seen 2002 sedans for about $28k, and wagons just under $30k. The 2001s have a regional incentive of $750, if there are any left near you. They sell for around invoice, minus any incentive. They also have special financing on the 2001s.

-juice

nygreg · October 2001

Had a 92 Camry - great car. I know what you are talking about with the radio reception. If I hit scan the first time through would hit the strong signals. The second time through automatically locked on all signals - even very weak ones. Very nice feature. It's in the electronics.

Seeing where you live, I believe there are 4 of us now in the upper Westchester, Putnam, Lower Dutchess area from this forum. You, Serge, me and ?

Greg
Snow is coming!

tos · October 2001

A dealer near me still had 6 2001 VDCs in the lot a week ago and I can't imagine he has had much luck selling them, due to the agressive marketing the US car manufacturers are using. My guess is several will still be there in November. Anyone want to take a guess as to what kind of incentives will be on the 2001/2002 VDCs come November 1? Am I better off trying to get a dealer to move right before the end of the month? I've picked the car, now price is paramount.

tos · October 2001

Add me as a local. The dealer with all the VDCs is in Brewster and Pleasantville still has two.

pal086 · October 2001

HI,

This is a really helpful forum. My wife and I are in the market for a 2002 Subaru Outback. We are trying to decide between the Limited Wagon and the LL Bean edition. I would really prefer the LL Bean due to the H-6 engine. We test drove a Limited (H4) and I was not very satisfied with the highway driving -- little too much road noise, not enough zip in the 60-75 acceleration range.

Wanted some feedback from others who have test-driven both, if these problems disappear in the LL Bean. I seem to get the feeling from reading all the posts that the VDC is certainly quieter - but it is out of our budget range. So any comments on the LL Bean welcome !

Also a lot of people seemed to have problems with the 2001 models having the H-6 engines -- computers had to be replaced, brakes squeaked, there were starting problems in cold weather (we live in Rochester, NY !). Has Subaru addressed these problems in the 2002 models ? Also, some people complained that the heated rear view mirrors and wiper nozzles dont really work that well. Any comments ? We don't want to buy a 28K car and then have go back to the dealer every other month ot have things that dont work efficiently.

Your comments and suggestion are welcome.

fibber2 · October 2001

Am I the "?" in your post about Lower Hudson Valley / Harlem Valley Subaru owners? I have been called a lot of things, but never a "?".

Steve

nygreg · October 2001

:-o Sorry, I knew there was another person, but couldn't remember who. Actually, a "?" describes me very well.

Tos - You must be talking about Smith Cairns. 6 VDCs, hmmm. OK, so now we are up to 5 in the area. Cool.

Prithwish - I have the H4 in automatic. The stick with the H4 is definitely better if you like to have fun. So I guess your decision is the H4 with the stick, or the H6 in automatic form. For us it came down to - do we want to pay the extra money for leather, moonroofs, better stereo, etc. Personal decision. The computer problems have been addressed. The brake squeal only happens once in the morning. That has now been addressed with shims (if you buy, ask the dealer to install the shims). I'm not sure if I am going to have it done since it doesn't bother me. The heated rear view mirrors have been working fine for me so far. However, I haven't tested them in the heart of winter yet - only the frost/mildew we've been getting the last few weeks. No heater on the nozzles, you must mean the wiper blades. Haven't had a chance to test them yet. The heated seats take about 3-5 minutes to heat up, but once there are great. Good luck.

Greg

ateixeira · October 2001

Price for a leftover 2001? Well, let's see. Start at invoice, then subtract $750 for the incentive dealers are getting. That's already a good target price. If the dealer gets desperate, they still have a 2% holdback, or about $600 or so more to discount before it actually costs them money to give you a car.

I don't know if I'd want to hurt a dealer that I'm going to depend on later for any recalls or warranty work (maybe also service in your case), so aim to get most of that $600 back.

-juice

otis123 · October 2001

Go for the H6. The refined, near-luxury feel of the ride is worth the extra $.

My LLBean is a quiet, powerful TANK, with no want for horsepower, and no engine or starting problems. (BTW, I like the morning brake squeal - it is like the truck back-up warning system AND it wakes me up in the morning.)

Heated mirrors work fine and I didn't even know the nozzles were heated. The windshield heat elements work great to stop wiper ice buildup. BTW, I've never had wiper fluid nozzles freeze up on any car I've owned (even when I lived in Syracuse, NY).

Only problem I've had in 12K is needing the rotors resurfaced (for free). I decelerate too fast coming off the parkway!

Ralph

ateixeira · October 2001

Oh man, be thankful that it's never happened to you. I rented a Tracer in Taos, and the washer nozzles clogged up and froze. It was a nightmare. I had to keep stopping to clean the windshield.

They're really heated? Wow.

-juice

dukephoto · October 2001

Tos-

I paid $28123 for a base model VDC (no extras at all). That was with the $750 rebate.
The dealer holdback on the VDC is $957 according to Consumer Reports (I bought their report with the dealer cost/invoice prices on everything- except the extended warranties). This was about $300 below dealer invoice, but still about $600 above dealer cost. They had no problem going for that amount. The VDC's don't exactly seem to fly out the doors at the price level that they are at, but they seem to be worth every penny.
There isn't much difference between the 2001's and 2002 models. At least on the 2001 you get the rebate.

ateixeira · October 2001

Wow, $28k? For a VDC wagon? The press was saying they'd sell for $33k!

I may have to rethink that. Gotta get the wife to drive one now. She wants a stick, but that's a great price for all the stuff you get. I figured they'd cost $30k or so.

-juice

pal086 · October 2001

Thanx for all the information and advice. Will be test driving the LL Bean this weekend.

Another question: the dealer I will buy from will probably need to order one for me, so I wont get it till next month. Does anyone have any idea if Subaru is going to extend its special financing for November (right now its 5.5% for 60 months)? I am keeping my fingers crossed that it will or maybe give a even better deal like Honda CRVs (3.9 for 60months) !! (well, no harm in being a die hard optimist)

pal086 · October 2001

I had another question on the LL Bean. I heard that Subaru recommends Premium (92 octane) for the H-6 engines. What happens if one uses regular (87) or plus (89) with such engines ?

This might be a really naive question, but then I am really ignorant about the meachanisms of a car.

rsholland · October 2001

lose some power. The engine may "ping," and I guess you could(?) damage the engine. I'd play it safe and use premium.

I'm not an engineer, but my guess is regular gas doesn't "ignite" properly or completely.

Bob

ateixeira · October 2001

If you order it'll be a 2002. 2001s are leftovers only by now, I'm sure.

I'd bet the special financing will not go away any time soon. CR-V will be replaced in two weeks, so that's a special case.

The H6 has a knock sensor, and will retard ignition timing if it senses engine pinging. This will likely cause a loss of about 4 horsepower going from 93 to 87 octane, but likely no other ill effects.

-juice

dill6 · October 2001

maybe this isn't the place to ask this, but...Why did you 'buy' a CR report for invoice prices, etc. when you can get them free here? Are the numbers quoted on this site 'dealer friendly', or is the CR report more complete?

mdcappa · October 2001

i am a 10 day owner of vdc and nearly lost 3 clients over the weekend when cell phone wouldnt charge in cig lighter. manual and subaru say cant use cell in cig lighter--there is seat heater switch where old accessory source used to be. for the top of the subaru line there must be a way to safely use a charging cell phone in front seat--does anyone have a solution?? thanks

andyw1 · October 2001

We recently bought a 2002 LL Bean and are quite happy with it, with only about 1500 miles on it. It is comfortable, runs quietly (no pinging on premium-we may try mid-grade soon) and has a great stereo with CD. I felt the H4 was not strong enough for me and the H6 is just fine.

Good luck and enjoy your choice!

Andy

mikenk · October 2001

I didn't know that you aren't supposed to use the cig lighter socket to charge cell phones. I do it all the time and it seems to work fine. The phone charges and the phone keeps working.

Mike

paisan · October 2001

I don't know what you are talking about. If you mean the socket doesn't stay on when the car is off, EVERY FOREIGN CAR has cig lighters that turn off with the ignition. My family has 6+ subies ranging from 88->00 all of em use cells in them. Perhaps your cell is bad?

-mike

bill_ca · October 2001

I just got a 2002 VDC in CA. Paid $29K even for it, including the security system and auto-dimming mirror. MSRP was $32,793, and Edmund's dealer invoice was 28,844 plus ~229 for the options, plus 525 for delivery. So, depending on how you figure the delivery cost and holdback (is it 2 or 3%?), I paid somewhere between 100 and 600 less than invoice which probably amounts to ~400 over probable true cost. For what it's worth, the F&I guy told me they cleared $175 on the car. I jumped at the 2.9% 2 year financing from Subaru.

I've been very happy with the car. At that price, the premium over the LL Bean wasn't that much--they were really trying to get me to buy the Bean over the VDC--probably because folks just aren't willing to pay a $1500 premium for the VDC, so it eats into their profit margin.

I definitely felt the extra oomph in the engine and ameneties inside were worth the premium over the base Outback. I've had (in only a few hundred miles) no probelms with brake noise or other issues discussed here. I put 91 octane in it.

pattim3 · October 2001

That line about charging your cell phone? Sorry -it is incorrect. We have taken it out. It was a bit funny though. To reconfirm how safety conscious our parent company is, they had to do "testing" for awhile before they would remove it. I guess it's good to know - better safe than sorry - but so many of us were using cell phone chargers anyway, the testing seemed a bit of an overkill.

Anyway - MD - you may want to check your charger or your phone. If it is the element, the dealer will take care of it.

Thanks!

Patti

dukephoto · October 2001

I bought the report before I knew I could get the prices here. I just checked- all the info is the same.

DUKEPHOTO

nygreg · October 2001

Several new owners here. Welcome all to the Subaru club. Please join us on Thursday nights (9PM ET) for our weekly chat and let us know "real time" about your new bundles of joy.

Greg

ateixeira · October 2001

I charge my cell phone in the front seats of my Forester, though I've had a hiccup charging my notebook PC. May have been the charger, but it's been working lately, even with the PC.

Let's see, $28,025 invoice for a VDC sedan. If I wait long enough, I bet the $750 incentive comes back, so you could potentially find a VDC sedan for $27,275. That's tempting.

But the non-VDC would be $25,124 at invoice minus $750 incentive (if/when it comes). That is a pretty big premium for the VDC.

-juice

paisan · October 2001

Juice, if you wait forever, you will be able to get an infinitely powerful/feature ridden vehicle, at an infinitely cheap price. Just like computers, if you wait forever you will also never buy one

-mike

drew_ · October 2001

...at 6-7pm Pacific/9-10 pm Eastern. Hope to see you there!
http://www.edmunds.com/chat/subaruchat.html

Drew
Host
Vans, SUVs, and Aftermarket & Accessories message boards

ateixeira · October 2001

Prices cycle up and down. They had gone up over the last couple of years, but now there is more market pressure and less demand in the niches we're interested in.

I can wait a couple of years, if the 626 holds up (and it's OK, at least for now). Even longer, technically, if we went back to a 2 car fleet.

So as long as things are looking better and better, I'll wait. I'd like to have her drive an Altima, the new 6, and hopefully an interesting Legacy turbo when that arrives. If not, it'll be a VDC for her or a WRX for me, and she'd get the Forester.

This is normal for me. I shop for a car for about 2-3 years before I end up buying it.

-juice

sweet_subie · October 2001

try using the 12v outlet in the cargo......if works.......something wrong with the lighter in the front.........

Otherwise get yourself a new cell & a new charger....

take to the dealer......call subaru before that......they have excellent cust.service

popgun · October 2001

I've been a VDC owner for three days now and I'm wearing a big grin almost continiously. Drove it from San Diego CA to Klamath Falls OR in comfort while enjoying pleasureable listening. Got 27.8 mpg @ 70 mph most of the trip. Mountains were no problem for the H6. Had been reading this boards comments for about eight months and felt pretty well informed at the dealers. Thanks to all of you for the helpful postings. Now I'll join you when I can stop grinning....LOL

popgun near CA/OR border

hypov · October 2001

Oh it will be a pretty long while before you could wipe that grin off your face. :-D I haven't wiped mine off yet.

-Dave

dukephoto · October 2001

I've had mine for about a month, and I find myself driving past my turnoff all the time so I can just drive around a little more. Oops, it's a good thing the wife doesn't read these!

Dukephoto in WV

nygreg · October 2001

Stable isn't it?

Greg

ateixeira · October 2001

So that's why every time I see a VDC driver they have a big fat grin on their face! ;-)

-juice

tdavey1 · October 2001

I'm considering purchasing a VDC Outback and am looking for some feedback regarding the the reliability of the new 6 cyl. engine. I've owned three other Subarus over the years and they have all been super reliable. I think this is what I'll get with the VDC as well. I've had a friend and a mechanic both tell me to either wait and see on the 6 cyl. or buy the 4cyl. Any feedback would be greatly appreciated. Thanks!

ateixeira · October 2001

It may not have been a bad idea to wait, but the few bugs have seemingly been ironed out. The new ECUs are better, and the brake squeel in reverse fix has gotten around.

Those were the two most common complaints, and they appear to have been addressed.

-juice

hypov · October 2001

would Davey count as another "Dave"?

:-D

-Dave

ateixeira · October 2001

Yes, close enough. ;-)

-juice

tdavey1 · October 2001

Thanks for the timely response. The VDC i'm looking at is used...ever so slightly. Should I anticipate having problems with emission control units and squeeky brakes? If so, are there reliable long term solutions to these issues? Enlighten me o' wise ones...

wmiller4 · October 2001

I know it will run on 87 but, what I wonder is what is the so called required octane fuel rating?

ateixeira · October 2001

I believe they require 87 but recommend 91 or better. Use the cheap stuff and the knock sensor will kick in and retard the timing, most likely costing you about 4 horses. So you get what you pay for, but at least in a pinch you could use regular if that's all there is.

If you're looking at a used VDC, I would take a long test drive to see if it seems to hesitate. If so, it may need the ECU upgrade. I'd be a little suspicious because it was traded in so soon, so call the 800 number and have SoA do a VIN search for any major issues.

Though the folks that have had the ECU fix and the brake shims have reported good results with those. To test the brakes, reverse it for a bit and then hit the brakes, and listen for any squeel.

Not all of them had those problems, though.

-juice

otis123 · October 2001

I brought my LLBean in for service at 11K last month and asked my mechanic at Curry Subaru in Yorktown Heights, NY about the H6 engine. I trust his opinion. He said it has been flawless so far, and commented that the ECU problem was only on the H4? I've had no problems.

So far, so good...

nygreg · October 2001

Do you recommend Curry for service? Looking to see who is the better service dept in our area.

Thanks,
Greg

otis123 · October 2001

Greg,

Yes.

When I bought my LLBean (2/01) from Curry Subaru we got a remote start module added on. The finance lady gave me a brouchure during the sale process which implied it would work from 500 ft., and from inside a building. Problem was, they connected the module to the factory alarm, giving it a range of maybe 50 ft. Hello? What's the purpose of a remote start with that range?

Anyway, they ended up having to install a top-of-the-line alarm system for FREE to get the range the finance lady said I would have! They didn't even hesitate once to make the customer happy (this was the service department at this point). That's how to run a business!!!

(I can start my car (actually it's the wife's car) from inside my office building!)

Anyway, now I'm trying to decide between an H6 base sedan and a V6 Passat sedan to be purchased this winter... Need to do some test driving...and wax the 96HondaAccord2dr...

Ralph

nygreg · October 2001

It's called the Greg system. I run out, start the car, turn on the heater/defroster and run back into the house (sometimes in bare feet).

Actually, we have a heated 2+ car garage. Need to straighten it out soon to get the cars back in there for the winter.

Maybe I will Curry a shot. I'm thinking about having my diff oil upgraded to synthetic.

Thanks,
Greg

ateixeira · October 2001

Two H6s? Yummy.

Heated garage? Boy, you guys are living large!

-juice

nygreg · October 2001

With 3 daughters and my wife, it is my only "space". I have many plans to fix it up so that Subie has a nice environment to sleep in. Hmmm, maybe murals of mountains, streams, ski slopes, an oven to bake rally bread.

Greg

otis123 · October 2001

I may be looking at another H6, but I only have one, unheated garage (and you know who's car goes in it every night - not mine!).

A remote start module is only around $150 to $200 (assuming you have an alarm). It's worth it to get into a warm car - we even leave the seat heaters on when we turn the car off - on a cold Feb. morning OR a cool car on a humid morning in August! Also, nothing like going out after a snow storm and brushing already-melting snow off the windows. Well worth it!

Subaru Outback VDC

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