Subaru Outback VDC

drew_ · August 2001

Nah, this price was from a year ago for me! If you get Alpine's DVD system, it covers the entire US and you don't have to get seperate CDs. Honda/Acura's DVD is not the be all and end all of systems either since Acura decided to cut coverage of some areas, despite Alpine having the data. This means that if you happen to be unlucky enough to live in one of those areas with reduced coverage, the GPS is basically useless for you. As you can imagine, some owners were not too amused.

Drew
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gmcmkin · August 2001

One thing about the acura gps is that it has laser guided nav, so in a tunnel, high building area or car park it still works -- no jokes about getting lost in a car park please. I have seen this in action and it is a very good feature. I understand that laser measurement is installed in the wheels. That's pretty special IMHO, Drew. Naturally this degrades expontentially with time out of satellite coverage, but it is better than coming to a dead stop or drifting in an assumed direction and speed.

The maps are OK in urban areas but get inacurate in more rural areas. I looked at all the factory fitted gps systems in BMW, Audi and Mercedes and the Acura was the best. This is research I did 10 months ago.

Not sure where one would put the screen with the McIntosh in there?

paisan · August 2001

Yeah see, IMHO you need the instructions in the rural areas more than in the urban areas. At least in an urban area there are signs, and people you can ask for directions. When you are 50 miles from no-where at night, it's hard to figure out where to go

I'm stilling with my laptop + updatabale maps for now

-mike

evilizard · August 2001

After two check engine lights I dropped my wifes VDC at the dealerhsip this morning for the ECU zap job. Gets it's brains sent to NJ for a little work.

Now I find myself in a Mitsubishi? Mirage. Not impressed (cars a couple of years old and the front bumper paint is already fading). Can't wait to get the VDC back so I can get my 96OB back.

I'll let you know how it goes.

Also whenever the check engine light would come on the VDC OFF light would pop on as well. After a few days the VDC OFF would vanish and then a few more days the check engine would go away as well.

drew_ · August 2001

Actually, there is no laser guiding. What happens is that the system taps into the vehicle network and uses the wheel speed sensors (from the ABS) to extrapolate where the vehicle approximately is if it happens to loose sight of the satellites, like in a tunnel for example.

It's not very special since other factory installed navigation systems also have this feature. It is even possible for the aftermarket Alpine systems (Acura's is an Alpine, BTW) to have this capability.

Hope this helps!
Drew
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Vans, SUVs, and Aftermarket & Accessories message boards

scubadvr · August 2001

Thanks to all for the help in previous posts. I've made all decisions on the Bean I'd like to purchase at the end of the month, and now I'm left with options. I saw a rear gate bar on a bean this past weekend and my brother loved it (he drives a 4-runner). I've never been that interested in one, and so now I'm curious if anyone on this board has had experience with using one. Are these 'practical', or merely a gimmick?

Much thanks,
Colin

evilizard · August 2001

I played with one once and didn't find it all too useful. Problem I found with it is that you can't use it unless your trunk is already 1/2 way down. Then its a little better than placing your hand somewhere on the back and slamming it shut (I usually go for the tailight trim). If your door is prone to flying open with uncontrolable force (its not) it could be useful.

Its more of an appearance issue I think (does look nice). Course it might get in the way with a strap on bike rack.

originalbitman · August 2001

They are a dealer installed (though you can do it yourself) option. I've tried one and they work great as you get a nice handle to grab the tailgate. There is a small recessed hand grab on the underside of the bottom edge of the tailgate already but the bar makes it really easy to grab. I held off getting one because after I saw it in person I wasn't wild about the looks. A little too big for me. But that's just my opinion.

bit

miksmi · August 2001

Hi Colin,

I also debated the rear gate bar. Here's a 1999 post that might help you decide
<< . Some think the gate bar makes your Scooby look like a big barbeque grill. I wanted to get one but as it's my wife's GT, we didn't.

A downside is that someone might use the rear gate bar as a step when loading a roof rack or washing the roof, perhaps bending sheet metal.

..Mike in MD . 00 GT wagon

originalbitman · August 2001

Yeah, I always wanted to look for a stainless bathroom tub grab bar. They make them small like 8 inches or so and I think it could look better but not sure.

bit - 2001 GT Wagon

nygreg · August 2001

I have the bar and I think it is one of the best options to get. I can reach it and pull down the gate with the gate fully open (I'm 5' 9") in one motion instead of two (grabbing the inside handle then pushing it closed from the outside). Fits nice in the hand and it's better than closing the gate by pushing on the paint. It's black, not stainless. Never thought about people using it as a step stool though. I think it adds to the ruggedness look of the OB.

Need to get pics in here to show you the bar and hood deflector on my Winestone OB. It compliments Bit's great looking shots of the white GT.

Greg

mybenje · August 2001

I am planning to buy a 2001 LL Bean. I would like to put wider tires on it. I like the look, I would like to go a little taller as well.
Did anybody experiment with tires with the LL Bean? Or Do you have to change rims?
Does BFG make any all terrain tires for the LL Bean?

Thanks

paisan · August 2001

ATs on an OB? I guess they could work, they'd look a bit ghetto IMHO though.

-mike

ateixeira · August 2001

Big BBQ grille - LOL!

Benje: luckily, the Outback has the multilink rear suspension, so there is more room for tire than in the older strut models (99 Outback, Forester, Impreza).

So there appears to be room in the rear wheel well. It's the front I'd be concerned with. Turn your tires and see how close they get to the fender wells. You can probably go to a 235/60 or 225/65, but not much more than that.

Also, change all four tires, of course, and remember, your spare will no longer be the same size, so carry a patch kit and an air compressor.

I plus sized my Forester, but had to get wheels with an offset that put the tires further out.

-juice

jagarland · August 2001

Get it. I have one and although it is a little too thick and a bit too long, it is very useful. I find the reach under gate releases make it difficult to pull down the gate. And, an inside strap as on my wife's Toyota Sienna, is not very well placed or very useful.

Jack from Cape Cod

nygreg · August 2001

Great minds think alike!

We have an OB (with a gate bar) and a Sienna. I think my wife owns both though. ;-)

Greg

vdchawk · August 2001

Patti,

I would like to find out when SOA will call back from the message I left weeks ago. Has you group forgotten about me? Just so you can find it the case number is 285529, opened in April. Thanks

Keith

miksmi · August 2001

Hi Keith,

If you left a message with SoA weeks ago, someone dropped the ball somewhere along the line -- they don't take that long to respond.

Patti won't be back until Monday (mentioned elsewhere). Call 1-800-SUBARU3 (1-800-782-2783), give the case number, tell the CSR (customer service rep) that SoA didn't return your call, and note the CSR's name in your problem log. I've found that you have to update the case via the 800 number to keep things moving; it's how the SoA customer service process works (not uncommon in large organizations). After speaking to the first CSR, if you're not satisfied, politely explain that and ask for a supervisor.

SoA is open Mo-Th 08:30-17:00 Fr 10:30-17:00 ET (last I checked).

HTH.

..Mike

gmcmkin · August 2001

Thanks Drew, someone on sci.gov.geo.satellite-nav told me that. Anyway, it is really useful for downtown areas and something of a shortcoming without it. Definitely a consideration.

kullenberg · August 2001

Does anyone know if the Outback VDC Wagon can take a taller tire? For instance; a 225/70/16? A winter tire in that size would afford another inch (.88" actually) of ground clearance, which in snow country can mean getting thru or not! It gives a tire diam. of 28.4", vs 26.6" for the OEM tire. TIA for any comments
Cheers
Pat in Mtns of NC

ateixeira · August 2001

I've heard of a lot of Forester owners going to bigger tires, but never on an Outback.

I'm sure there is some room, but not much. The rear suspension doesn't have the spring base in the way. Though the wheel wells aren't that big, and keep in mind the Outback already has far bigger tires than the Legacy GT or L.

Call Tire Rack or Discount Tire Direct, and see what sizes they'd be willing to sell you. In my case, I got wheels with a different offset to plus size my Forester's tires.

Remember a couple of things - your spare will no longer match, so carry a patch kit and an air compressor. Also, you'll lose gearing (6.7%) and may find acceleration a bit sluggish. It's already geared 7% taller than the GTs are.

I would guess 225/70s would rub the front wheel well when you turn the wheels and hit a bump. 225/65s would probably fit (no guarantee, just a hunch).

-juice

paisan · August 2001

I don't think larger tires are called for on the OB. Even in the heaviest of snow, my cousin and uncle have never been stopped, even in the snow-belt of the adirondacks. ('97 OB and '00 OB)

-mike

nygreg · August 2001

Do they run snow tires?

Greg

paisan · August 2001

Stockers ('97 OB had Michelins with 60K on them) ('00 has the Firestones)

-mike

nygreg · August 2001

Thanks!

lark6 · August 2001

juice: You're the only guy I know who's gone bigger - up to 225/60-16. I'll follow up in the Forester group.

Ed

ateixeira · August 2001

There are more, mostly in Australia. I've seen 205/75R15, 215/70R15, and even one 215/75R15 right here in the US.

On that last one I was a bit shocked to find he had no rubbing.

-juice

drew_ · August 2001

...at 6-7pm Pacific/9-10 pm Eastern. Hope to see you there!

http://www.edmunds.com/chat/subaruchat.html

anthony_cheng · August 2001

Does anyone have the Subaru rubber floor mats for the VDC?

I am interested in getting some heavy duty floor mats, and I am wondering how the Subaru mats have worked for others?

For those who have it...

Does the mat generate static electricity? I remember buying a mat and getting shocked everytime I stepped out of the car.

How durable is the mat? Does it capture fluids well? Does it have provisions to anchor the mat to the floor?

ateixeira · August 2001

I've seen them, and the front ones are not a custom fit. They are square and only fit the lower section of the foot well.

Useless, IMO. Buy aftermarket and then trim to fit with an exacto knife.

-juice

miksmi · August 2001

Anthony, when I last looked for rubber floor mats, I liked the design of Rubber Queen. Unfortunately, they're only made for the 90-94 Legacy. I submitted a request last year for 00+ support. Hmm, think I'll do it again. I'm still looking for a solution.

..Mike

jregen7243 · August 2001

I bought the Subaru rubber mats last November for my Outback. I thought they were great during the winter. We had more snow than usual in NJ. I got them from subaruparts.com. The price was excellent. The only thing is I wish they were a little bigger.

Jon

scubadvr · August 2001

Hey Anthony,

Though I haven't seen the Subaru mats in person, I plan on picking up a set of WeatherTech mats shortly after getting a new Bean at the end of the month. I will be able to offer first hand advice on the WeatherTechs made for the Outback then.

The reason I offer them up as a suggestion, I've had a set in my escort since 93' and love them. Had the car in MI at the time and they were large enough and deep enough to take anything I could throw at them. I dropped a full can of pop on the floor on the front driver side and not a drop hit the carpet. I did have to trim the mats for the back seat, but it was a piece of cake and they look and fit great.

Good luck,
Colin from So.Cal.

lark6 · August 2001

I don't own an OB (rather, a Forester) but I bought the WeatherTech mats a week after I bought the car...and just in time for a 6" snowfall. They worked well and the gray color (extra cost) matches the gray Forester interior almost perfectly.

The front mats fit without trimming; I had to trim the rear mats somewhat with a utility knife, but the fit is almost perfect.

Good luck,
Ed

nygreg · August 2001

I would be interested in your opinion of the Weathertech mats when you get them. I'm thinking about getting a set before the pending winter. Thanks.

Greg

cminchik · August 2001

It has been awhile since my last post but I have an interesting story to share. I took delivery on my first VDC 2/28/01. Loved it from the get go! I average 5000 miles per month with my job, so I very quickly had 20000 miles racked up. I then was broad sided by a Ford F-250 pickup in the driver's side door at 50 mph. The good news was the car was totaled (luckily I also had GAP insurance) and I am able to post these comments today which says something about the structural integrity of the car. So now I was faced with a decision again. What car to go with this time.

Quickly my needs:
1- Driving year-round in adverse conditions in MD, DC, VA, WV, & PA (both rain & snow).
2- Interior room (I am 6'4") and trunk room for salesman's inventory.
3- A vehicle that is reliable to handle 50K a year for 4-5 years. I typically trash my cars after 5 years and/or 300,000 miles.
4- Better mileage than the current brand of SUV's on the market.
5- A safe vehicle (this one I can personally attest to.)

When I re-analyzed these needs I still came up with the VDC AGAIN!!! So I have the identical car a second time around.

What I have noticed after 24,000 miles:
- Premium gas does make a difference in gas mileage and pickup, especially in the mountains.
- The A/T will eventually learn your driving habits, although I do a lot of manual shifting with the A/T anyway. This has worked great for me and gives me amazing acceleration especially when I need to pass on the highway.
- Never had brake squeal, ECM problems, poorly machined wheels, or broken timing chains on either car (knock on wood or is it PLood).
- The VDC works great behind the scenes, especially in the rain. I can't see a need for a cutoff switch because I want it on all the time!
- The seats are great for 500+ mile days. I don't feel beat up after these days either.
- The McIntosh stereo is flat out AWESOMMMME!

The fact that after 20,000 miles I bought another VDC says everything. This car is fun to drive and I wouldn't trade it for anything on the road. Period.
Chuck in Maryland

originalbitman · August 2001

Wow! What a testimonial. Any pictures of your wrecked VDC? And what is GAP insurance? I thought they only sold clothes.

bit - 2001 GT Wagon

evilizard · August 2001

Just curious about the details of your wreck if you don't mind (I know subes are safe but nothing makes me feel better than knowing a live example).
Was the truck going at 50mph on impact or had it slowed down a little bit? Wet road? Did the side airbag deploy? Did it make a difference? On the impact did it engage the B-Pillar? The A Pillar? I've always worried about trucks overiding the side impact beam, I guess that wasn't the case here.

What you went through is my worst vehical nightmare, someone in an SUV runs a light and smashes me in the side. One of the reasons I went for the Outback was because I hoped that the extra ground clearence would give me a better chance in just such a wreck.

ateixeira · August 2001

Great story, Chuck. Glad you were well protected, and picked yet another.

Safety is a great salesman.

-juice

nygreg · August 2001

Sorry to hear about your accident. I hope you did not suffer from this. It's reassuring for the rest of us to hear your story. I too don't know what GAP insurance is. Insurance for the space between my ears?? ;-) Anyway, welcome back to the family.

Greg

originalbitman · August 2001

"...Insurance for the space between my ears?."

Hah. I would have to pay a pretty high premium for that.

bit

jregen7243 · August 2001

GAP insurance is for the difference between what the insurance company pays when the car is wrecked (book value) and the amount of money that is remaining on the loan. The last 3 cars that I've leased came with GAP insurance. It is clearly listed on the lease contract, and it's built into the payment, but I've never had to ask for it. That could be a NJ law or something that they have to give it to you, I'm not sure about other states.

Jon

evilizard · August 2001

Probably a Lease thing, it would make sense that the leasing company would want to protect their financial interest in the car (and pass the insurance costs on to you). Kind of like that Private Mortage Insurance on houses that you get the "privilage" of paying for so that the lender is sure to be protected.

paisan · August 2001

NYS GAP Insurance is required to be included in all lease deals.

-mike

pattim3 · August 2001

I'm sorry that this dealer keeps letting us (you and me) down. I will report this to Subaru of New England and to "higher ups" at SOA.

We have an initiative at SOA called the Subaru Difference. The focus is on trying to improve dealer relations with retail customers. Al, I'll share your thoughts with the VP responsible for this initiative. Personally, I like it.

The hardest situations for us to get involved with are the retail transactions. However, we do reports on dealers with poor responsiveness to customer's (that covers a gamut of things) and it will impact the dealership.

It seems so simple - treat your customer's right and it's pure good business. I don't know why it is such a struggle with some dealers.

I don't want to add to your agg., so I won't get you directly involved, but I also will not ignore what transpired for you. If you want to go to another dealer, let me know first. I can talk to them and explain what you've been through and try to get you treated with the respect you deserve.

Thanks!

Patti

pattim3 · August 2001

I'm so glad you are okay. Post like yours are very good for people like me. It keeps us believing in our product, even if we have not had the experience.

Patti

gmcmkin · August 2001

Thank you so much for your message and for reporting this on. I do hope you keep monitoring this board in order to learn what customers are saying and to help where you can. It really has made a big difference for me in this case. Not because it changed the outcome, but because it put a human touch to an annoying situation.

I will drop a message here when I am up going for my first service.

All the best,

Gary

gmcmkin · August 2001

I am thinking of adding a towbar to my 2001 vdc.

Usage would be to tow a small boat and a Sunfish; add one of those bike racks that attach to a tow bar (it is impossible to get a roof rack for my particular bike without swapping out the factory bars, which I have no desire to do).

I am looking for some general guidance. Are there different kinds? How much typically? Is it better to use the dealership?

TIA,

Gary

ateixeira · August 2001

That's a lot of questions! :-)

I have the hitch, and installed it myself. It's not hard if you are handy and have tools. I was around $220 or so for the parts, which includes a harness and instructions. The OE hitch has a custom fit and tucks in nicely under the bumper, plus it attaches with 7 bolts. Here are a series of photos.

I've seen aftermarket hitches from DrawTite and Hidden Hitch, and both were fine. Not quite as neatly tucked in as the OE hitch, and neither used 7 bolts, but they seemed to work for their owners and cost less (under $200), even installed. Given the modest limits of 200 lbs tongue weight and 2000 lbs towing, they should do fine.

I also have the bike rack, the type that slides into the receiver hitch. It holds two bikes, though I've strapped a 3rd bike on once and it was fine. One of the photos in that series shows the rack with 2 bikes on it - they do not touch the vehicle, which is nice. It's SUPER easy to load, far easier than using the roof, plus the roof is free for other gear.

A hitch is quite handy. I've pulled a 5'x8' trailer with 3 yards of wood chips. It saves me about $40 per load vs. having it delivered, and I hauled two loads already. On other trips I picked up all the gear for a sand box, some lumber, and some more mulch.

That plus I've hauled the bikes about a dozen times. The bike rack costs extra, though. My supplier is out of commission right now (financial problems), so I'd try subaruparts.com for prices.

Good luck.

-juice

cminchik · August 2001

Sorry, I don't have pictures. But in answer to the numerous posts about the accident, the pickup truck (which was higher than my car of course) hit midway between the A & B pillars; literally on the door impact beam. Picture yourself sitting in the drivers seat and the driver's side door bent at 90 degrees protruding into your lap. I am surprised I wasn't hurt seriously, but I escaped with just minor bruises & cuts. The force of the impact caused structural damage strong enough to bend the central cross beam under the dash, between the A pillars and misalign the passenger side doors. The side air bag did not deploy. I don't know why. Perhaps I should have gotten SOA to look into this matter, but in the excitement of the moment, trying to put this behind me, I didn't make an inquiry. Perhaps the side air bag deploys from frontal impact only?

Now as to GAP insurance. The is insurance that pays the difference between what your auto insurance company will pay when the car is totaled and what you owe the lienholder. It is not just for leases. Obviously with the miles I put on a car, I can't lease. But as soon as I drive a new car off the lot, the value of the car decreases by 20%. This is the difference I want protected by GAP insurance. I have had GAP on my last 4 vehicles. This is the first time I have ever collected on GAP and rest assured I will add it again to all my liens.

I think the vehicle did one hell of of a job protecting my a..! That's just one of the reasons why I bought another one. Again I hope this post proves helpful to someone on the fence concerning the VDC, or provides assurance to other owners.

Chuck in Maryland

Subaru Outback VDC

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